Ways to Tell if A Man is a Pick-Up Artist Con

[rahulrocks]

Hey Rahulrocks, you're gorgeous. You don't need those books or strategies!

 

I am glad that you learned the thing for which you started the thread. Identifying the pUA

[Silverbirch]

Hi Guys,

In the context of how you refer to PUA, I don't find it amoral. I suppose I am thinking more in terms of very vulnerable people who have been exploited. I suppose I'm also thinking more in terms not so much just of an initial meeting, but of people who have been emotionally manipulated, and as I referred to previously, much more often for money than for sex. I saw an older woman heart-broken when this happened to her with a younger man who stayed in her life for a significant amount of time and really used her up before quickly moving on and marrying a younger woman.

[GhostRocket]

Hi Guys,

In the context of how you refer to PUA, I don't find it amoral. I suppose I am thinking more in terms of very vulnerable people who have been exploited. I suppose I'm also thinking more in terms not so much just of an initial meeting, but of people who have been emotionally manipulated, and as I referred to previously, much more often for money than for sex. I saw an older woman heart-broken when this happened to her with a younger man who stayed in her life for a significant amount of time and really used her up before quickly moving on and marrying a younger woman.

 

Okay well things like that can happen with anyone. Women do the same thing. Something like that has no direct correlation to someone that claims to be a pick up artist. You can't look at a few incidents and then decide that everyone that may claim to be a pick up artist has bad intentions.

 

Pick up artists usually aren't bad people. Just like most of the people you run into everyday aren't bad people. Let's just get that straight.

[LaKings55]

Not to defend PUA's, but as other posters have mentioned, approaching strangers is intimidating. Can you imagine being responsive or interested in a guy who just walks up and says "Hey, I think you're pretty. I would like to get to know you, and maybe we can have a relationship if everything goes smoothly." Nope, can't see it. We have to try and come off as a real-man, an alpha-male, confident, smooth, etc. We basically have to act and schmooze or way into women's hearts a lot of the time just to even get a date. It's easy to say you wouldn't go for that or this, or fall for a PUA, or a guy using these methods when you're in an on-line forum. But in a club, bar, store, etc, you'd definitely be less creeped out by the confident funny guy than the nervous, completely honest guy. Let's face it, the mysterious, provocative, confident guy almost (and I mean ALMOST) always will come out on top. Deny it, say it isn't true, but I've tried honesty, just being myself and it is rarely good enough even with good looks, good clothes and being tall. But if I start a conversation with a woman, act like I'm confident, cocky/funny, etc then I will almost always walk away with a number. Why? Because these things happen on a subconcious level. Now, I have never nor will I play the numbers game and just try to get laid. I have never slept with a woman I have not been in a relationship with. But the idea behind these methods, systems, advice is to make men appear confident, in control, and get them that all-important first date. Frankly, compliments are cheap. I never compliment a woman's looks until I'm actually in a relationship. Attractive women receive compliments all day by many, many men. I might mention their outfit, hair, etc, but never anything truly physical in nature relating to their body or overall appearance. Yes, be weary of men using these tactics to get laid, but give real men a break for trying to get their foot in the door. I know my ex would have had nothing to do with me if I had acted enamored with her when I first met her. In reality I was smitten with her when we first met. But I played it cool, I acted distant, removed, etc. Deep into our relationship, she used to say that she thought I hated her when we were first hanging out with mutual friends. In reality, she was the only thing on my mind. Some might say love at first sight. But if I had acted that way, and kept contacting her, and being clingy, she'd have run away.

[Silverbirch]

Hi LaKings,

I get your point, but I find it sort of weird that your ex thought you hated her. I would be uncomfortable myself. Not to say I think it's necessary to let a person know you are smitten with them when you are just gettting to know them - I wouldn't also recommend telling a woman she is pretty either first off.

 

I have regrets about being with super-confident men or ones that have appeared that way. I don't think I ended up with them because that was what I was attracted to, but rather that if a person doesn't make any approach, of course, the possibility of connection is greatly reduced.

[LaKings55]

I certainly didn't act like I hated her. In fact, in my own mind I thought I was "blowing my cover" so to speak. But to her, it appeared I wasn't that interested. Let's face facts though. A man who exhibits a level of confidence and calmness and a sense of "being comfortable" in one's own skin is a lot more likely to attract women than any guy who goes around telling women they're pretty and that he'd really like to get to know them better. I'm not saying that doesn't work at all. If I walk up to 100 women, tell them they're pretty, and ask for their number without saying anything else, and without exhibiting some value or level of confidence, I might still get some numbers. But in my experiences, if I do nothing except make eye contact and act like I'm not interested, a lot of women, at least in my age group actually try to get my attention. It seems as though they are completely not used to having guys who aren't all over them, asking them out, complimenting them, etc. It's sad, but guys have to put on a little dog and pony show, and do this "Hey! Look at me" act just to get dates anymore.

[Silverbirch]

Yeah, that's sad, but I suppose for women it's reaffirming that their own confidence has to come from within and not be dependent on whether they think they attract men or not.

[LaKings55]

What age group are we talking about? It's certainly dependent upon age. A man who is wealthy, and middle aged, in decent shape, certainly has very little trouble attracting women, and probably doesn't care less. A woman who is in her early 20's would seemingly be far more concerned with her appearance than say a 50 + year old. Not to say that older women don't take pride in their appearance or attractiveness to men, but I'm sure you catch my meaning. It is also cultural and geographical. What is the norm in So Cal might not be so common or likely in New York. Women obviously do things to attract men just as men do things to attract and approach women. Which leads us back to the main point, that PUA's are not necessarily con-artists. Sure, many men who use these systems have one thing on their minds. Others are just trying to get over that hurdle of fearing rejection, and trust me, it never goes away. I don't care if you approach 2 strangers in your life or 2,000, that fear of rejection and reprisal is always there. This all boils down to character judgement. If you go out, and decide that any man who approaches you is automatically a con-artist, that is your call. The truth is that probably a good chunk of those guys are actually decent guys who will respect you and are not just out for sex. On the other hand, another good chunk probably are. And another chunk are probably just drunk and doing it to impress their friends. It certainly does put a damper on things when you approach a girl, with the simply intention of engaging her in conversation, seeing if she is worth getting to know, and automatically being shot down as a "sleazy horndog." Bad guys give good guys a bad name just as manipulative women give the good ones a bad rep. It only takes one bad experience with a PUA to sour your impression of men. All I ask is that you remember that behind that manscaped face, nice shirt, and overpowering cologne is a scared little boy expecting full-out rejection from you. It's discouraging, demoralizing and generally humiliating. If you flat out turn a guy down, I guarantee you the majority of people laughing will be women. Why? Because most men who have any courage have been there, and trust me, it sucks.

[Silverbirch]

((((((((((Hugs))))))) That's very sweet. I can't recall ever being mean to man who spoke to me. Once I was somewhere and a man asked me to dance, but I was already speaking with someone who went to get drinks. I politely said no, and I saw that look of rejection, that he had taken it very personally. He was nice looking and I would have yes to the dance, but it would not have been polite to the other guy. I should have probably said more like, thank you, but I'm waiting for someone who has gone for drinks. I saw he felt so uncomfortable and I felt bad. I did think then how horrible that would be.

 

Regarding your comments on age and care to appearance, maybe the examples you give are the general, but definitely not the be all. I'm a mature-aged woman, and I take good care of my appearance. I feel comfortable with my own style and I have a passion for clothes, jewellry and all those other things. I'm not sure whether it is mostly Australian men, but I've had agreement from other female Australian posters here that a lot of men in my age group do really let themselves go. It's not necessary for a man to go to the gym everyday or body-build, just be not too far outside of a normal healthy weight range, be clean and have clothes that aren't more than around 5 years out of style and SMELLING REALLY GOOD are things that do count in attracting women as far as appearance goes. Just my thoughts anyway.

[GhostRocket]

The direct approach/business angle never works. Or rather, it usually doesn't. I've had a much higher success rate going slow and being more mysterious...and not acting overly interested. This way I don't feel like I'm making a sale and telling someone why they should be interested in me. I actually go through this every other day because I work in sales, which I hate. And I hate when people come up to me trying to sell me things.

[Silverbirch]

Well, does make sense when you put it that way GhostRocket. BTW, hope you are having as much success as you are happy with - that you have gotten to connect with some girls you have really liked.

[GhostRocket]

Well, does make sense when you put it that way GhostRocket. BTW, hope you are having as much success as you are happy with - that you have gotten to connect with some girls you have really liked.

 

I have. I'm in a relationship now though so I obviously don't explore, but there have been a few instances where using what I know now could have hooked me up with a few girls if I wasn't in an already committed relationship.

[Silverbirch]

LOL! So your PUA skills worked out for you! Good!

[GhostRocket]

LOL! So your PUA skills worked out for you! Good!

 

Those aren't PUA skills. It's actually a common method to take. PUA is more complex.

[LaKings55]

Silver, like I said depends on the country. The majority of Americans are approaching some level of obesity, especially in childhood and middle age.

[rahulrocks]

One word of caution for guys here, Long term relationships specially the live in relationships or marriages will not work if you still use the techniques of PUA's. Pick up Artist techniques are there just to create attraction. Once you move in with the girl, then you will have to be more caring, loving and all. Only love works nothing else does.

[Silverbirch]

I think I was born too soon. The younger men are nicer than the men in my age group.

[rahulrocks]

I think I was born too soon. The younger men are nicer than the men in my age group.

 

What exactly is your age group

[LaKings55]

One word of caution for guys here, Long term relationships specially the live in relationships or marriages will not work if you still use the techniques of PUA's. Pick up Artist techniques are there just to create attraction. Once you move in with the girl, then you will have to be more caring, loving and all. Only love works nothing else does.

 

Definitely. But, it will have to be phased in. In order for relationships to last, there still has to be attraction there. Just being loving and sweet probably won't cut it for the long haul either. It's my understanding that a lot of these systems from "gurus" that actually know a lot of men are looking for girlfriends and wives instead of just scoring, provide input on how to make attraction last, and to keep a relationship going.

[Silverbirch]

I am 50 - I have a son who is 24 who I am very proud of. I have heard many women say how the younger men (and probably a lot of women) to the baby boomer generation because a lot of the values changed due to social changes starting in the 70's. When I think of how things were when I first began in the workforce in the 70's, it really is a different and much better era than then. I think some aspects of change have not been well received by many men, even if it is at a subconscious level.

[LaKings55]

Oh most definitely Silver. There are many books coming out on the demasculinization of America, and most of the developed world. I've read many articles about how boys are being neglected in schools, not being accepted into college as much, settling into a delayed adult-hood, and how more emphasis is being placed on boy's feelings. Far be it from I to put down social progress, the world will develop and move forward as it will, but there may be something to be said for the older ways of raising men. I'm 24, and my childhood was much like my father's. I played baseball, a lot. I helped him in the garage, I was told to "suck it up" if I got a cut or got hurt doing anything. I was encouraged to do well in school, and academic success was not rewarded, but expected. I was taught to develop my mind as well as my body. Anything that would normally cause distress, anxiety or depression, I was told to "get over it." Now, suppression of emotions or feelings may not always be a smart thing to encourage, but for so many centuries, men have been uniquely masculine and have been encouraged to embrace that. In addition to a traditionally masculine upbringing, I was also encouraged to embrace style, etiquette, morals, culture, etc. In other words, an old-fashioned renaissance man. Now, to my main point, haha. It would seem that men are opposing some of these social changes, or what some authors have called the general "wussification" of our culture, since it just goes against a subconscious nature as Silver pointed out. Perhaps, men are born to be men, and society is largely forgetting that. I've also noticed several books and articles as of late, written by female authors interestingly enough, that many modern women are reporting being unhappy and feeling unfulfilled in life compared to say their mothers and grandmothers. I would never support the notion that women should get out of education or leave the workplace to men, especially since modern microeconomics essentially dictates that a household can rarely be in the black without dual income, but food for thought. Interesting reads to say the least. I can't remember where, but I remember reading something about women being dissatisfied with modern men as well, and vice versa. Again, food for thought. Anyways, this is getting far away from the key topic here, PUA's. On which note, I will say that yes, some PUA's are indeed con-men hoping to lure you back to their bedroom. Others, who would seemingly be using similar methods are in fact interested in getting to know you, and are just trying to get their foot in the door, fearing that they would otherwise appear anything less than confident without such methods.

[ProtestTheHero]

Your question is almost impossibly difficult. Any PUA who's good is not going to go in with scripted material. You're only going to catch/recognize the laughably obvious/bad ones who are either so boring or uninteresting that they can't think on the spot and rely on cliches.

 

Who/what other people "are" is far less relevant than the standards you have for yourself. If you're fine with sex early (and I'm not saying it's wrong, I have no opinion), you must accept that there's a chance that's all the dude was after.

 

I'm not a "player" because I don't manipulate women into having sex with me, but to be quite honest I couldn't care less about relationships. If I knew a woman wasn't the type of person to have sex early, I wouldn't stick around because there's nothing else that she could offer me that I would want.

 

So that's how you weed me out.

[LaKings55]

I'm actually worse than you ProtestTheHero, lol. I don't really care about sex or companionship, so women or relationships actually have nothing to offer me. I used to want to be a father, but the older I get, and the more I see the world spiral out of control, the less I want to bring children into it. So, since sex doesn't matter to me, I don't want to have children, I don't need companionship, it would follow that I don't need to get married, ergo no need for dating or relationships anymore. Who knows? Maybe it will change at some point. I certainly have enough women hit on me to keep me playing the flirt game, but as of now, I'm concerned with making money and living my life drama free.

[Silverbirch]

Well, I don't know if this will surprise or shock anyone, but it isn't much the fear of being used for sex that is a concern for me. Unless I was raped, any sex I participate in would be consensual on my part. There is more a fear of being used in many other ways, socially, financially or other ways. Obviously, I have no desire for any more children, I have many female friends and a small but growing number of male friends. I have my own family and interests. I'm rarely lonely.

 

Thing is, sometimes my life might be easier if I was gay, but I just can't help it - I'm drawn towards men. It's difficult to explain what it is that I want with them. Of course, compatibility, friendship, chemistry/physical relationship, shared dreams.

 

This thread has been good for me because it helps me see the bigger picture.

 

Oh yes, LaKings, sorry for the diversion, but I do get all the points you make. I took Women's Studies as a minor, just in a BA. My son's upbringing was a little different to yours in that it was less masculinised. He has been in a close relationship with a young woman for a couple of years, and like you, he is very focused on career, making money, travel. I tell him he should slow down and enjoy life and his friendships a little more. I do think that there is just some biological component or something because my son still has quite a lot of masculinised behaviour - needing to always appear strong to others. He also played state level sport, but chucked it in while he was at the height of success saying he was disillusioned with the values of sport or rather the lack of it. He has never played competitive sport since and wont ever again. He then moved into recreational skating and skateboarding, then filming friends doing that, and now works in the film industry for an arthouse film company!

 

I can see from my son how things are different, mind you, I'm sure he and his friends have tried a few lines. I recall him telling me about a friend of his who had a tattoo on his chest of a scroll. It was blank in the centre, and when this young man would meet a girl he liked (and there were several), he would write her name in the scroll in ink so it looked like a tattoo, and apparently, he managed to win over a lot of girls with this, but as you would expect, eventually he got caught out.

[LaKings55]

Ah, tattoos, lol. Can't tell you how many older people I know that have one and regret them. Names, weird designs, etc. I got one a couple years ago that I knew would mean a lot to me, and actually helped me through this most recent break-up. I got a simple, easily covered, latin phrase to show my family's heritage (Italian) and a small, but very nice Roman eagle under it. The phrase is Luctor Et Emergo, which basically means "I struggle and emerge" There have been a few times where I've felt frustrated, down on my luck, hopeless, etc. Then I look at that, and I remember that life is full of pain and struggle, and I can only come out of it stronger and more wise. I will not get any more tattoos, since the career path I've chosen frowns heavily upon them if they show in short-sleeve uniform shirts. That's why I got mine up by my shoulder.

 

I would also like to make a point that relationships can be a beautiful thing and they can also force someone to lose focus. My father's first marriage occurred when he was young, around 19. He dropped out of college to get married and look for work. They ended up divorced a few years later and he had to go back and finish his degree, which took him a lot longer since he was working as well. He regrets just not finishing school first. I managed to get through college with only a few "flings," and nothing too serious. However, this past relationship initially took me off my goal of military or law enforcement, primarily because I thought I was so in love, I couldn't leave her, or pursue a potentially dangerous career (she was quite the worrier) However, now that she is gone, I'm refocused and remaining single until my goals are accomplished. She also created a lot of drama and anxiety for me when I had a job interview with a company for a potentially lucrative, non-military/ LEO career. I didn't get that job, and before that one I had a local government position in which I was hired and laid off a few months later due to budget cuts (last hire, first fire) I would have never taken that job if I had never gotten involved with her (hated it, even though it was related to my major) So, sometimes, relationships can bring a lack of focus, a tendency to not do what you want or should in life. Though, some people seem capable of pursuing their dreams and maintaining a relationship, the men in my family have certainly made mistakes when it comes to that.