Ways to Tell if A Man is a Pick-Up Artist Con

[Batya33]

"Because the attraction isn't there with "very nice guys."

 

That's because "very nice" is misdefined as passive, insecure, and needy. Which isn't very nice, or nice at all.

[LaKings55]

Yes, but aren't their intentions still "nice."? They want to buy you things, make you feel special, want to spend time with you, etc. To me, you have to play relationships by ear. Sure you can use previous experiences to look for red flags, but I haven't changed what I do. I never contact a woman needlessly, nor do I want to see them everyday, even after a year or so together. For this I've been accused of being a jerk, selfish, and too detached from the relationship. In another instance I was told I was causing too much stress and anxiety, and being too demanding. I was merely trying to see, after over a year together, if we could see each other more than once every other week. After all, we lived like 5 minutes apart. Imo, we would have never seen each other if I hadn't actually pushed to make plans. I was also understanding every time plans fell through. Seems like I can't find a happy medium. Either I'm a detached, remove a******, or I'm a clingy, needy nuisance, LOL

[magnoliatree]

Honestly, it sounds like you are dating the wrong women. If you are accepting the wrong women into your life, no matter how great your behavior is, you'll still end up with problems bc you aren't compatible at all. Like how often people want to see each other is really just a personal preference. Some people love daily, others dont. If you are dating a woman who want daily24/7 contact it's not going to work out in the end unless you are amenable to that. It's hard but maybe work on filtering out the incompatible people sooner rather than later.

[LaKings55]

I just don't worry about relationships anymore. Not sure if marriage and kids is for me, so single for life is probably best

[Silverbirch]

I think it is right to play things by ear. Nothing wrong with taking things slowly. I don't know about women not falling for "nice" guys. I thought all of my exes were nice when I first met them. One of them, my son's father btw, I still think is "nice" (most of the time). I have never chosen to be with a jerk. Jerk behavioiur has been something which has crept into relationships slowly, by which time I was very emotionally invested in the relationships.

 

I find it very difficult to see a person every day because there are other things in my life I need to do and take care of. I tried to see more of the men I was with because that was what they said they wanted and it was to the detriment of myself and ultimately the relationship. By seeing too much of the other person, I ended up losing myself. I am feeling so much better now for having that time for myself.

 

Yes, I guess most of these guys would be transparent.

[Blue Spiral]

Being passive is considered "mean," now? Wow. Interesting world we live in.

[Lonewing]

Okay, I'm no spring chicken and should already be educated about this subject, but I don't think I am. I've seen a few references on this site to Neil Strauss and Pick-Up Artists. I feel like in the past, I've been a bit of a dumbo and would like to wisen up on this subject.

 

Anyone care to share what they know about this. For women, is it worth buying Neil Strauss's book?

 

There's absolutely No way to be absoltuely sure if the guy is a pickup artist or not. NONE.

 

However, there are rule syou could live by which would in advertanly make this MUCH easier for you to decide.

 

1) If things are too good to be true, chances are, they are.

2) Never have sex before 3-6 dates AND meeting 2-3 of his friends. Stick around long enoguh to see/hear his firends in aciton. If his friends are sleezy, chances are he is too. Listen to them when they talk about him - you might pick up things that way.

3) Never have sex any earlier than 2-3 weeks, even after 3-6 dates.

4) Use that time while you're with him to learn as much about him From Primary references that you can.

5) Ask how many partners he's had

6) Ask him what happened to his ex.

 

Now if you yourself just want sex inside three dates and less than a week of knowing him, you might be a pickupartist too...in which case, he's your type!

[Silverbirch]

LOL, no I don't meet the criteria as being a PUA!

[hopelesssucks]

good advice, lonewing.

Also, remember that even nice, good men will want sex; so don't punish him for asking or wanting. Instead, judge his reaction when you say "no." Does he get angry or mean? It's because your "no" just threw a wrench into his intentions for the evening. If he's intending to see you in his future, he'll be a bit more reasonable to the "no."

[LaKings55]

General relationship advice always says to never talk about exes. Besides, most guys, and people in general will just say "Things didn't work out" and asking how many partners someone has had may not be so mart either. I agree with examining his behavior, how he interacts with others, his friends, etc. I've even heard to look at how a man treats waiters, bartenders, how he tips, etc.

[LaKings55]

good advice, lonewing.

Also, remember that even nice, good men will want sex; so don't punish him for asking or wanting. Instead, judge his reaction when you say "no." Does he get angry or mean? It's because your "no" just threw a wrench into his intentions for the evening. If he's intending to see you in his future, he'll be a bit more reasonable to the "no."

 

Great advice. For me personally, I don't mind waiting for sex. Sex isn't a big thing for me, kinda think it's overrated, at least it has been for me personally. Now, when I hear women say "I'm going to make him wait for it" and they're referring to months, I have to laugh. Relationships have a lot to do with compatibility, and compatibility in the bedroom is a big one. I've heard other women say they go for the sex fairly early in a relationship to make sure the chemistry carries over to the bedroom. Seems like a wiser move, waiting like 3-6, or 6-10 dates, but certainly not months

[Lonewing]

It's best to make him wait two or three months before you give him a Date...once you're dating, it's an advancement beyond that initiation period - which means there's a lot of ground to cover...

 

The pickup Artist Scam works on all the advice provided by the relationship experts. Hence why I think questions like Sex Partners and past relationships are prime questions.

 

I almsot you shouldn't sleep with someone until you are comfortable with their past lives - and not because you don't know about them, but because you're aware, they're honest, and it's not heinous.

 

It;s all kind of coutnerintuitive, but you're fighting back agaisnt a Scam Artist. I saw a book one for Girls to fight back agaisnt PUA, it has a blue fish swirling a martini glass ont he green cover...cracked me up when I saw it, and then tinged me with horror as I understood it means there's a whole class of women out there who are playing the same game - getting as much as they can from a guy wihout giving up sex - unless, of course, they want sex.

[LaKings55]

Wait two or 3 months before you give him a date? Come on bro, what guy with a backbone would pine after a chick for 2-3 months, hoping to get a date? It's one thing if you're co-workers, and you get to know each other a bit before going out, but just playing cutesy and stringing someone along without actually going out with them is cruel. I get that making someone wait is the best way to stop a PUA as they'll just move on, but if I don't waste time on women who won't give me the time of day

[GhostRocket]

Oh well, in that case, PUA is a lot less than I thought it was. I was thinking more in terms of scamming. I wouldn't mind reading some of those books though - just for fun and interest.

 

No. That is what happens when you listen to people that don't know what they are talking about.

 

"OMG it's a trick!"

 

Do yourself a favor and look at both sides of the coin.

[GhostRocket]

It's no different than the extra lengths some women go to to attract the opposite sex sometimes. Some cleavage in their dress, earrings, high heels, perfume. Same exact thing. This is just in conversation. And I think you have a bad impression of what PUA's really are. They aren't terrible people and their methods aren't laced with malice. They aren't out to hurt anyone's feelings. If that was the case they would never get women, obviously.

[GhostRocket]

I think you and Fudgie are horribly confused. I do the exact same thing. Unless this book's approach is drastically different. The bottom line is not to give one girl too much attention, letting them obviously know that you have an agenda and are trying to hit on them. Talk to other people around. Other girls even. It's just one strategy that makes you look less like a creep. Why in the world would any woman be offended by this gesture? In my opinion women are really judgmental sometimes. A simple "hi" to a stranger can be seen as creepy or unusual by some women as strange as that might sound. I blame this on the media for the most part. But in any case, I think you guys are of course on this. Bottom line is that if going up to a girl and saying "Hey you look great, I'd like to take you out on a date sometime" actually worked, then guys wouldn't have to go through this * * * * .

[GhostRocket]

Agreed 100%. I never, never, and I mean NEVER ask a woman for advice on matters regarding my dating life. Especially if I'm single. It's better to ask a guy who has been in the same situation as you. I remember the days in high school when I would actually ask girls for advice and the next thing you know I see that same girl or whatever around some kind of guy they told me they would never go for or whatever. Not to say that women are liars or what not, but I am saying that perhaps they don't always know what really works for a guy trying to ask out a girl. Trust me, I've been there. My friends have been there. It took a chance encounter with a PUA a few years back and we had a pretty good conversation. He even demonstrated in person what he was talking about. But he was right about not asking for female help in regards to dating when you're a single guy. And whether I like it or not, he was right. And even before I met him, he was right.

[Silverbirch]

Hi GhostRocket, I think it depends on how far one goes in hitting on women who are not the REAL target which would determine how it rates in creepiness. That's different to somebody who is just friendly to everyone. Not sure if I have explained myself well enough.

[capuccino83]

I don't know what kind of girls you guys are going after, but if a guy came up to me (and didn't look creepy but like a decent guy) and said 'hey, you look great I'd like to take you out on a date', I would def go out with him. I've met guys on trains, buses, and even airplanes this way. But if some dude was talking to me, and then left to pay attention to other girls and then tried to ask me out.. forget it!

[Batya33]

I wouldn't like a stranger complimenting me first on my looks and then asking me out in the next breath - I would be uncomfortable with the focus on my looks and his misimpression that I want to be noticed first for my looks. One man I dated on and off for a number of years (but we never got serious) came over to me at a singles event and said "hi, how are you" in a very normal, matter of fact tone. I really liked his straight up no nonsense approach.

[LaKings55]

I don't know what kind of girls you guys are going after, but if a guy came up to me (and didn't look creepy but like a decent guy) and said 'hey, you look great I'd like to take you out on a date', I would def go out with him. I've met guys on trains, buses, and even airplanes this way. But if some dude was talking to me, and then left to pay attention to other girls and then tried to ask me out.. forget it!

 

If that's true, then you are unlike any woman I've ever encountered. You know what I think it is, and I constantly see this in women's advice columns and from women in general, is that they do not know what they want. I see plenty of women advice gurus say things like "We just don't know what we want, but if you take the time with us, we can be well worth it" I think younger women especially are very unrealistic. Take a look at a craigslist personals section sometime. You'll see women who describe themselves as "BBWs" then describe what they want in a man, and it basically sounds like Brad Pitt. "Someone with a great body, money to spoil me, etc" Unrealistic, right? So in my experience, the advice I get from women is convoluted, confusing, seeming opposite of what my instinct and what other men say to do. Even at work, if I have a question and I ask a woman I usually get a long, complicated, confusing answer that typically creates more questions, while men (and trust me, there are some men who can TALK for days just to hear their own voice) usually just give me a quick, logical, simple answer. My dad and I used to joke that if you asked my mom or sisters where something was, she'd tell you "over there" which lead to "over where?" "in that corner somewhere"..."what corner, where?" and it would go on for minutes. Ask my dad or I and we'd say something specific like"In the kitchen cabinet, left side, 2nd shelf, by the peanuts) . Now, as for approaching a woman based on looks, men do focus on looks. But, looks are subjective and what works for one guy might not do it for another. But whether it comes out in his speech or not, the only reason 95% of women are approached at bars, or singles events as Batya mentioned, are because of their look. Sadly, others might be approached because they look "easy." But yes, a non-pickup line, and avoiding compliments seem more genuine to me. I have never told a woman she is beautiful, pretty, sexy, hot, etc without having dated for a good while. Not only do I want to get to know aspects of their personality before doing so, I don't want to come off as just hanging around because a girl is hot. Basically, what everything boils down to is that men and women are different, and the sexes should complement each other. But the way men and women think, the culture of each gender, etc are all very different. I once read a great book by Deborah Tannen called "You Just Don't Understand- Men and Women in Conversation" and it just shows example after example of this great divide between the sexes and what we can do to understand each other. Here's a great example I remember from the book. A man and women have dated for a while, he spends the night at her place one evening, they have sex, everything is going great, next morning he even stays for breakfast. Now, while she's making them breakfast, she feels kind of awkward. What's missing here? Her boyfriend spent the night, he's staying for breakfast, reading the paper, he seems happy, so what's the problem? No one is saying anything. She feels awkward with the silence. He however is perfectly content. It's a great morning, he's got his paper, his girlfriend is cooking breakfast, could it get any better than this morning in the presence of his significant other. And that wherein lies the issue with the situation, the guy is perfectly content, and men in general hate talking in the morning. She thinks something is wrong because he's not really talking. Again, difference between the genders. There are other examples of men needing to learn how to read through what women are saying to get to their real emotions, but you get the gist.

[Batya33]

"Someone with a great body, money to spoil me, etc"" I have heard of women who behave this way but I've been friends with hundreds of women over the years of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds - and know hundreds of women -and I don't know any who feel that way much less would express themselves that way in an on line ad.

[LaKings55]

I wouldn't like a stranger complimenting me first on my looks and then asking me out in the next breath - I would be uncomfortable with the focus on my looks and his misimpression that I want to be noticed first for my looks. One man I dated on and off for a number of years (but we never got serious) came over to me at a singles event and said "hi, how are you" in a very normal, matter of fact tone. I really liked his straight up no nonsense approach.

 

That's generally my tone. It also helps that I am tall,have a deep voice, dresses, and carry myself with confidence. If I came up to a woman slouched over, and nervous, it would show. What people are forgetting here is that your perceptions and reactions in a situation are based almost entirely off non-verbal communication. Whether you realize it or not, when men approach you, you are automatically observing his body language, and it is creating an impression. So, if I sent two men, about equal in looks, your way, but one had "confidence" and the other was a nervous, twitchy type guy, who do you think would be more successful? Now, change the situation. Two guys, equal looks, dressed well, both confident. Now, one comes up to you and says "Hey sexy, wanna get out of here?" Bang, creep alert. The other says "Hi, you looked like an interesting person" Or "Hi, how are you?" A lot better and seemingly genuine right? Now, which one most likely used PUA materials? I can tell you it wasn't the first one who called you "sexy" On another note, you'll see these systems preach that depending on the situation, you can ask for a woman's opinion "Hey, sorry to bother you, my buddy and I were debating on..." or in a store "Hi, I'm trying to pick out a shirt, and I would appreciate a feminine eye" and so on and so on.

[LaKings55]

"Someone with a great body, money to spoil me, etc"" I have heard of women who behave this way but I've been friends with hundreds of women over the years of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds - and know hundreds of women -and I don't know any who feel that way much less would express themselves that way in an on line ad.

 

I'm certainly not saying that's how all women are. I was using that to make my point that a lot of women come accross as not knowing what they want. I see so many men on here saying their gf of many years left them, because she wanted to date other people. Then she always seems to come running back after a fling or two. Can't everyone just make logical decisions anymore without emotion? But I don't want to get off the PUA topic, so let's just leave it at that.

[LaKings55]

Yep, Hi has painted me as a creep more than a few times. I've also been told off for holding the door when I was coming out of a store, because she can "get the door her d***self" I was just being polite, I know I hate it when someone just lets the door swing in on me, so I hold it for others. I do it for men, women, kids, doesn't matter, it's just common courtesy. Yet some women have taken it as chivalry when I do it for them. On the whole women being judgmental, I definitely have to agree with that in their younger years. I saw two fights in HS, both between girls. I've seen women hold grudges against former friends for years, I've seen frenemies. Yet when I see guys get into arguments, they're fine with each other the next day, go figure.