My Views On Sex Make Me Feel Very Un-American...Am I Alone?

[ClarenceRutherford]

Originally Posted by FloridaMan

OG, I'm not siding with you in your disagreement with Rouge, but I think it's special you two are doing this.

Our premarital counseler in the Catholic church my wife attended that we got married in recommended we cool sex a year before the wedding... which we did. We still spent evenings together in bed on weekends (we were in an LDR) but no more sex for a while... That period of waiting I think helped us.

 

I said I was a born-again virgin in my 20s. In my 30s, as I got more lonely and felt I had missed out on some things in life, I regretably didn't follow that path as closely... It was monogomous sex and only with my GF/fiance...

I don't understand why you have such an apologetic and shameful view of your past. You don't need to explain yourself to us. =)

I do hold some shame and admit I wasn't the man I should have been to that girl in HS.

We only did it like 3X, but it was never comfortable for either of us - and I wish I could have held her and tried to comfort her. She kept saying I never tried anything. Well, I had a car and got ideas. The "exploring" led us to a cliff we fell off and could never recover. Like I said, my fault as much as her's as I was supposed to be the man in the situation.

 

I changed in college as I said and didn't press women. Many view it as a sin. I am well aware not everyone holds that view so no need to argue.

 

I won't go into the 2 "encounters" I had in my late 20s. I will only say I felt I needed to have sex but found it wasn't intimate and left me feeling worse. Though I never really got a lot of opportunities, I turned down a couple of offers of ONS afterward.

I was looking for a life - not a sex - partner.

 

I thought God had abandoned me as I got closer to 30 while many friends and others were married or had loving romantic relationships, which seemed almost foreign to me.

 

Funny how I meet my future wife on a blind date just 3 mos. after I turned 30.

 

A traditional Catholic who only ML to her fiance after getting engaged about 10 years before meeting me, my wife was also conservative in this (maybe too conservative as I've said in other posts). We're reading books and I am doing everything I can within my power to restore emotional intimacy so the sexual intimacy will follow. We're also in a temporary (since July) LDR marriage. It's all detailed in that post I linked.

[RougeKali823]

Yes Rouge but you can't someone else they 'have only had sex' unless you have had it yourself and experience it. That is where my argument comes into play. You can't tell CC or me or anyone else that 'they have only had sex' and 'not made love' when you haven't experienced the difference in the two. That is the point I'm trying to make. Not discrediting you.

 

Just like you can't tell someone that they can't possibly know something given the fact that this is the internet and for privacy I won't be sharing everything as I cannot delete this thread. So, I stated what I did in order to make a point. I personally don't have a vested interest in your relationships but it seems like sex and having lots of it are essential to your compatibility with your partners. In that case it's less about love making and more about just having sex (not elaborating on my definition because it's already a tangent).

[OptomisticGirl]

I stand by arguments and by my standards my fiance views our marriage as totally valid since we'd be wedding ourselves physically, in terms of living together and in name. I won't change that belief. I think you and CC should do what makes you happy though. Fortunately I only have to look out for me.

 

But that implies that marriage is only a physical aspect and it's not.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Yes Rouge but you can't someone else they 'have only had sex' unless you have had it yourself and experience it. That is where my argument comes into play. You can't tell CC or me or anyone else that 'they have only had sex' and 'not made love' when you haven't experienced the difference in the two. That is the point I'm trying to make. Not discrediting you.

 

You don't really need to have sex to understand the difference.

[RougeKali823]

I agree but in that context we are talking baout someone who has sex with multiple amounts of people. Your average person has maybe 2-3 sex partners before marriage. And no, I don't think the amount of sex parnters you have makes you against cheating. That's a personal preference.

 

2-3??? No, this is definitely not the case.

[OptomisticGirl]

You don't really need to have sex to understand the difference.

 

Agreed BUT for a human being who has never had sex to tell another human being (who has had sex) that they are 'only having sex' without being in that relationship is presumptious and judgemental. No one is saying you have to have sex in order to know the difference but I do believe you have to have had it before judging someone else's sex life.

[RougeKali823]

Look, I can't go into the women's restroom because I'm not a women - and I accept this exclusion. My ex thought sex was easy too, and then the orgasms started...let's just say for all her experience and my total lack of experience, she said it was really an awakening for HER!! ...before me, she said the only way she could was on top and deep in focus...I don't know if I trust her words, but...well, it was nice giving her that surprise!

 

I've experienced an orgasm so I do know a little bit about what I'm talking about and it was a pretty good feeling...I digress.

[Lonewing]

I agree but in that context we are talking baout someone who has sex with multiple amounts of people. Your average person has maybe 2-3 sex partners before marriage. And no, I don't think the amount of sex parnters you have makes you against cheating. That's a personal preference.

 

Um, the numbers around here are closer to double digits. One of my neighbors is 19 and he's already had 39 partners...and I'm afraid he's sort of in the "norm" for what I saw while I was around the university scene. Average age of lost virginity in the US is now 15. I spent a couple years on the club scene, there's no way these people are still looking at single digits when it comes to partners.

 

It doesn't matter much who the person is, as you add partners, you diminish their ability to connect. Eventually, you get a defect of character - the smae one strippers and prostitutes have, hence why I could never date either one.

[OptomisticGirl]

2-3??? No, this is definitely not the case.

 

Actually it is. Are there people who have 6-15? Sure. Buit your AVERAGE person, who values sex and commitment and who they sleep with will only have sex with people they are in a relationship with. 2-3.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Just like you can't tell someone that they can't possibly know something given the fact that this is the internet and for privacy I won't be sharing everything as I cannot delete this thread. So, I stated what I did in order to make a point. I personally don't have a vested interest in your relationships but it seems like sex and having lots of it are essential to your compatibility with your partners. In that case it's less about love making and more about just having sex (not elaborating on my definition because it's already a tangent).

 

More like 'lots and lots of love making".

 

Sex is love making for me. I couldn't have it without being with someone I loved.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Agreed BUT for a human being who has never had sex to tell another human being (who has had sex) that they are 'only having sex' without being in that relationship is presumptious and judgemental. No one is saying you have to have sex in order to know the difference but I do believe you have to have had it before judging someone else's sex life.

 

She could judge you even if she had had sex. Her judgmental point of views have less to do with her not having had sex and more with her beliefs.

[OptomisticGirl]

Um, the numbers around here are closer to double digits. One of my neighbors is 19 and he's already had 39 partners...and I'm afraid he's sort of in the "norm" for what I saw while I was around the university scene. Average age of lost virginity in the US is now 15. I spent a couple years on the club scene, there's no way these people are still looking at single digits when it comes to partners.

 

It doesn't matter much who the person is, as you add partners, you diminish their ability to connect. Eventually, you get a defect of character - the smae one strippers and prostitutes have, hence why I could never date either one.

 

Yes but they aren't the NORM for the whole of the world! Of course there are those who go way out there in sex and have like 40 parnters by the time they are 22 but your average person doesn't! You are talking about an extreme.

[RougeKali823]

Agreed BUT for a human being who has never had sex to tell another human being (who has had sex) that they are 'only having sex' without being in that relationship is presumptious and judgemental. No one is saying you have to have sex in order to know the difference but I do believe you have to have had it before judging someone else's sex life.

 

You're missing that point entirely. I made that statement in order to demonstrate how presumptuous it was to assume that I knew nothing about sex because I'm a virgin. That means I cannot (and do not want to) know if they are in fact making love or not. I did it to prove a point.

[OptomisticGirl]

She could judge you even if she had had sex. Her judgmental point of views have less to do with her not having had sex and more with her beliefs.

 

 

This is true too. Althought still, someone can not tell another person what their life is like. I'm sorry. But in order to be taken seriously in an argument or your opinion respected, you can't go around judging people.

[Teaday]

I don't think that a high number of partners someone has equates a defect or any indication that someone isn't willing to commit...

[Lonewing]

Not really. I won't even delve into how many people I had sex with when I first went to college, and even with that it's no more difficult for me to fall in love than the next person. In fact, I feel even more prepared to settle down!

 

Most of what you learn is from experience, everything else is just textbook.

 

From my vntage point, it goes in the opposite direction - the marriages become shorter, the replationships more polyamorous, to the point where swingers and open relationships are the best descriptions. Once you open up to having lots of lovers, there's really no turning back for those who discover they love the Buffet Line.

[OptomisticGirl]

You're missing that point entirely. I made that statement in order to demonstrate how presumptuous it was to assume that I knew nothing about sex because I'm a virgin. That means I cannot (and do not want to) know if they are in fact making love or not. I did it to prove a point.

 

But the truth is you can't know about sex until you have it. Like the drug example you bought up. You can have an OPINION about it but unless you have tried a drug before, you have no first hand knowledge of it.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I don't think that a high number of partners someone has equates a defect or any indication that someone isn't willing to commit...

 

Agreed. Stayers are stayers and leavers are leavers.

 

I see posts on here all the time about wanting to "see what's out there" because they only know their one partner.

[abitbroken]

I guess I am late to this discussion. But keep in mind there is a margin of error here. The way that people get "statistics" on who is a virgin and who is not is based on self reporting. People who take surveys are trusted to not exagerrate the truth, and are people who take surveys more likely to want everyone to know that they did/didn't do it. Also, when you take a survey of 150, or even 500 people it gets skewed if they are all from the exact same family background, faith, or even fraternity.

 

There are more people that are virgins than you realize, or at least there are more people who don't have sex for awhile. In late high school and early college I heard of all the people who were "doing it" and how lots of people in general (not people we knew just the whole "everyone is doing it" concept). Anyway, when after graduation they sent a bunch of girls that I went to school with to a retreat (it was non-religious), there was a "slumber party" element to it at night and we got to talking and I found out that most of the girls who I thought were in the "everybody's doing it" crowd weren't doing it at all. I just assumed because they were popular, etc. In fact, later keeping in touch and talking about girl stuff, a bunch of the girls didn't end up having sex until they were 22, 25, etc. I know of one who didn't until 34. Some with their husbands. Some with their husbands to be before they were married, and some with another guy that they didn't end up marrying.

 

Some of these girls had a belief system that they stuck to about sex, for some it was just plain about respect. They didn't meet anyone they decided to have sex with at that point. So not everyone is 15 and swinging from the ceiling. But the media will say differently because a teen or young adult not having sex not because of a disorder but just because they don't feel like it, or haven't met someone worthy of it just doesn't make an interesting news story. Granted, the group of gals I was talking about all had tons of different interests. And also a factor was they all had supportive families who were involved - though that doesn't mean they wouldn't sleep around, but I think on average, they had better self esteem to say 'no" if they simply weren't ready or didn't want to do it.

[ClarenceRutherford]

It's still a bonding of two human souls into a sacred commitment though. The whole 'being a virgin on your wedding night' dates back to when women were property and their virginity was what finally sealed the deal. If you truly love someone and want to spend the rest of your lives with them it doesn't matter WHEN you have sex. Sex is just an extension of your feeligns for that person, a way physically to show them how you feel.

Agree on the sacred bonding.

Not everyone will be virgins when they marry, of course, and no one should expect everyone to live their lives that way, but it should be considered a postiive thing, no?

 

A lot of things date back to when women were property, like taxes, the need to work for a living, preparing meals, washing clothes, etc., so no need to link virginity to some outdated concept.

[RougeKali823]

But the truth is you can't know about sex until you have it. Like the drug example you bought up. You can have an OPINION about it but unless you have tried a drug before, you have no first hand knowledge of it.

 

um....so we need first hand knowledge of crack to know that it kills?

[OptomisticGirl]

Just like you can't tell someone that they can't possibly know something given the fact that this is the internet and for privacy I won't be sharing everything as I cannot delete this thread. So, I stated what I did in order to make a point. I personally don't have a vested interest in your relationships but it seems like sex and having lots of it are essential to your compatibility with your partners. In that case it's less about love making and more about just having sex (not elaborating on my definition because it's already a tangent).

 

Love making is not defined to one partner Rouge. I made love with my ex and I have made love with CS. You are trying to put off those who have sex as over sexual like they have an abundent of sex partners.

[Cognitive_Canine]

um....so we need first hand knowledge of crack to know that it kills?

 

To know what the high feels like, yes.

[OptomisticGirl]

um....so we need first hand knowledge of crack to know that it kills?

 

No but you need first hand knowledge of crack before juding a crack addict for their addiction.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Honestly guys, like anything else, moderation is the key. Personally I avoid guys who sleep with anyone they can get or guys that are extremely conservative about it. Both attitudes to me are unhealthy and show that they can't make a good partner, for me at least.