At Home Births

[lostnscared]

I think that if you want a medical procedure done at home and it will only affect your life, that's fine. But to put an unborn child's life at risk just because you "feel" that home births are more "natural" for you, then you are not really thinking of the child in that case and what is best for them, and what will greatly increase their chances of survival. We are in an age now where we do have access to health care, so I think it makes sense to take advantage of it if you are physically able to. But it's not really a "person decision" when it affects someone else's life.

 

How is a homebirth putting a child's life at risk? Women have been birthing babies for millions of years, at home, on the field, at the hospital. Not sure why there is a belief that the only way to have a baby safely is at the hospital.

 

Birthing is NATURAL. So why wouldn't you have birth in a natural way? I guess I'm not following the train of thought. Beyond that, homebirths have a lower infant mortality rate than hospital births, there are less interventions as well which help with allowing the process to go naturally(as it is intended). I do think birth should be a personal decision in the sense that people should birth in a way that feels right for themselves--and part of "right" means doing what they believe is best for them and their child. If they feel that a home birth is safe, and is desirable, and don't feel it to be risky then how is it wrong? The only way I could see it being a bad decision is if the pregnancy was a highrisk and in that case one could not deliver at home anyway unless they did it unassisted. For instance I'm finding out that having twins at home is very much a "rare" thing as it is considered "high risk"--so the only way I would do it, is if my midwife was willing to and felt that it was okay. Otherwise I would not make a risky decision. I think most women who have homebirths feel a sense of security and safety in the choice and don't think they are putting their children in harms way, hence the reason they do it.

[lostnscared]

Miscarriage and anything regarding another's life is something we don't have control over. For instance I have no control over when the BABY decides it's ready to come. But I do have control over my body and how my body delivers the baby. Or I have no control over the baby deciding that it no longer wants to be brought to life(i.e. miscarriage). In cases of a "life" that is not mine I have no control over it. That is why I said, if for whatever reason I lost the baby, or there were complications with the baby those are aspects I can't control because it is another life at steak. I'm talking about having control of your life, not another life--and a baby is another life, so in theory we have no control when babies decide to come or if they decide to go. My mom had a miscarriage earlier this year. And my sister in law had a miscarriage in January. Neither of them had control over it, the babies decided they did not want to come and therefore "left" so to speak in the form of miscarriage. That is a natural part of life, which we can't control. Because we can not control another life. I cannot create my babies personality, or make the baby look the way I want, be the way I want etc. The baby is his/her own individual and will have their own personality, own spirit, etc--they are their own person.

 

But I believe that since labor takes place in OUR own bodies, then we do have control over the way it takes place. The baby just comes out and lets us know when it's ready to come out, we decide how since it is coming out of our bodies. If that makes any sense.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well yes, I'm an advocate for you can have the type of birth you want even in a hospital setting. Just because you give birth in a hospital doesn't mean you have to have an epidural - my mom didn't - or any drugs to stop or progress labor. You as the mother (and your support system) can have it however you want.

[dramallama]

Because if something were to go wrong, you don't have the advantage of having doctors and access to operating equipment, specialists, monitors, emergency transport to another hospital etc. I understand that birthing is natural, but you can have a natural birth in a hospital with no pain medication, if you choose, and f something goes wrong, THEN the hospital will intervene. To not take that opportunity for the best healthcare if you live in first world country to provide your unborn child the best chance at living if something WERE to go wrong, is only thinking of yourself and the kind of birth "experience" that YOU want to have, instead of focusing on what is best for your baby.

 

It's not a personal decision when that decision affects you AND someone else (the baby). Who is the better person to judge whether a birth is safe to have at home: the mother, or a specialist doctor (obstetrician)? A midwife is not a specialist doctor. I think they are taking more of a risk to have at home births, and it's more about the mother wanting to have a specific birthing experience, instead of thinking about what is best for the baby's health, and chance of survival if something were to go wrong. And no midwife can predict if something will go wrong, so the best thing to do is put yourself in an environment where if something DID go wrong, the baby can IMMEDIATELY be attended to by professionals (not midwives).

[lostnscared]

Actually in a homebirth if something goes wrong you can be transported to a hospital. Midwives are actually trained to "spot" if something risky, or dangerous is occurring and will quickly transport you to the hospital if necessary. And again homebirths actually have a lower rate of infant mortality. So that "argument" IMO is sort of "tired" because it's been used and yet no one has proved that having a hospital birth is somehow safer because even stats do not support that assertion. The only situations where hospital births are safer is when the mother is high risk.

And sorry disagree. I don't see what having access to the best healthcare has to do with making the choice to have the baby at home. You imply that someone is stupid, ungrateful or crazy for choosing that the "best healthcare" in the world is not better than having faith in their bodies, and in doing something that is very natural and has been done millions of years even before doctors were around or hospitals were around: having birth without being in a hospital.

 

Actually it is a personal decision. Because a person can decide if that is what they want to do or not. Not society, not you, and unfortunately not the baby. It's sort of similar to the abortion argument, but I won't go that route. I get your mindset just don't agree with it. Most women who choose to labor at home, ARE thinking about the baby as well, and would never birth a baby at home if they felt it was dangerous or risky. I think implying that these women are selfish is offensive. Just as I think trying to force or make a person have a baby at hospital, because it is the greatest healthcare in the world, is pretty offensive.

 

You may not agree with homebirths, but they are personal decision, even if ethically/morally you don't think they are. It's really just your value system, and the way you look at it. So ultimately every women will make a decision based on their values and beliefs--and nothing else. Why does it matter to you?

 

Typically what is best for the baby is also what is best for the mother. If the mother is distressed, sick, etc then that will effect the baby. If the mother is calm, relaxed, etc then that will also effect the baby. If I were a baby I would want to be born at home LOL, why because my mommy would be the first to hold me--I wouldn't have strangers surrounding me. I would get a chance to bond with mommy and I would be born into a peaceful tranquil environment. But I understand that some women just prefer the hospital and feel as though they can bond with the baby just as much at a hospital as they can at a home birth. Just up to the woman.

[OptomisticGirl]

And what is best for the baby is also what is best for the mother. If the mother is distressed, sick, etc then that will effect the baby. If the mother is calm, relaxed, etc then that will also effect the baby. If I were a baby I would want to be born at home LOL, why because my mommy would be the first to hold me--I wouldn't have strangers surrounding me. I would get a chance to bond with mommy and I would be born into a peaceful tranquil environment.

 

I agree with everything but this. Even in hospitals moms are the first to hold the baby - unless something goes wrong with mom or baby. The doctors put me on my mom's chest - all bloody and everything. I'm actually liking the idea of the doc handing the baby to L and then him handing the baby to me. Dunno why.

[lostnscared]

Well yes, I'm an advocate for you can have the type of birth you want even in a hospital setting. Just because you give birth in a hospital doesn't mean you have to have an epidural - my mom didn't - or any drugs to stop or progress labor. You as the mother (and your support system) can have it however you want.

 

Exactly. But maybe some women don't like hospitals, or would prefer do deliver the baby in the comfort of their home. Or maybe they don't feel like having to continously tell a doctor they don't want pitocin, or an epidural. Maybe they don't want to be on a time table("oh you've been in labor now for 12 hours your still not progressing time to make the baby come out now"). I know women who have perfectly desirable and natural labors at the hospital, but I think that some women just don't want it that way.

[lostnscared]

I agree with everything but this. Even in hospitals moms are the first to hold the baby - unless something goes wrong with mom or baby. The doctors put me on my mom's chest - all bloody and everything. I'm actually liking the idea of the doc handing the baby to L and then him handing the baby to me. Dunno why.

 

Yes they let the mom hold the baby briefly then take the baby away, clean him/her off, etc.

My point is that if I were a baby I would want to be bond with my mom in the privacy and intimacy of our home, not with strangers, etc.

[OptomisticGirl]

Exactly. But maybe some women don't like hospitals, or would prefer do deliver the baby in the comfort of their home. Or maybe they don't feel like having to continously tell a doctor they don't want pitocin, or an epidural. Maybe they don't want to be on a time table("oh you've been in labor now for 12 hours your still not progressing time to make the baby come out now"). I know women who have perfectly desirable and natural labors at the hospital, but I think that some women just don't want it that way.

 

Yeah and if you don't like hospitals then a home birth would be best. But even in a hospital setting you still have control, it's just about how you take that control and to have a great support system. I"m honestly stoked to be giving birth in the UK were midwives deliver and I can still do it in the hospital. Which to be fair, L would be against a home birth himself.

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes they let the mom hold the baby briefly then take the baby away, clean him/her off, etc.

My point is that if I were a baby I would want to be bond with my mom in the privacy and intimacy of our home, not with strangers, etc.

 

Well yeah, but again, it can happen that way as well in a hospital. At some point even in a home birth the baby has to be cleaned up - although I guess the mom could do that herself - weighed and suched. That's basically all they do in the hospital and hand them right back. Now I know people who had like 25 people in the delivery room with them and that is just outrageous. For us, it's just me, L, and the midwife.

[lostnscared]

Yeah and if you don't like hospitals then a home birth would be best. But even in a hospital setting you still have control, it's just about how you take that control and to have a great support system. I"m honestly stoked to be giving birth in the UK were midwives deliver and I can still do it in the hospital. Which to be fair, L would be against a home birth himself.

 

Yes you can still have control at the hospital, but from the women I spoke with, they felt it was more difficult to. Even though they remain persistent about the type of labor they wanted, to their doctors and to the nurses, they still had to deal with being told that they needed pitocin, being asked constantly about getting an epidural, being told that they need to be checked, and then having to "wait" to push the baby out(even if they were ready to) because they had to wait for the OB to make it to the room. But I think it just depends on the women. For myself I would want to be in complete focus during labor, and would not be able to achieve that while having to talk and having nurses come in and check on me. I think having complete focus would be important in allowing the process to take place-and since I get distracted easily I could see it quickly turning into a traumatic situation. But I admire and respect women who are forceful and determined about what they want and have the labors they want at the hospital.

My boyfriend is not really feeling the home birth himself, but he also doesn't trust doctors or hospitals either. He NEVER goes even when he gets very sick. So he sort of at a conflict. He knows why I want a homebirth and even agrees with my feelings about the doctor, but also is just afraid of the risks. In that way I think a birthing center birth would soothe him.

[lostnscared]

Well yeah, but again, it can happen that way as well in a hospital. At some point even in a home birth the baby has to be cleaned up - although I guess the mom could do that herself - weighed and suched. That's basically all they do in the hospital and hand them right back. Now I know people who had like 25 people in the delivery room with them and that is just outrageous. For us, it's just me, L, and the midwife.

 

For me I would like to do most of the laboring on my own(LOL) if I had it that way, and then toward the pushing part have the midwife, bf, and mommy there. I just like the idea of being able to labor on my own and be in complete focus and in a trance without being disturbed. I could see my bf annoying me, or my mom annoying me. I think I would feel comfortable with midwife though--because my midwife is very hands off and has been very open to what I'd want if we were to have the baby at home.

[OptomisticGirl]

I'm one of those women. L already knows what I want to happen - and of course when we do get pregnant it will be a more detailed thing - and any decision I leave in his hands. He is just as stubbron as I am, lol

 

Yeah, L views pregnancy like I do - natural process but very risky.

[OptomisticGirl]

For me I would like to do most of the laboring on my own(LOL) if I had it that way, and then toward the pushing part have the midwife, bf, and mommy there. I just like the idea of being able to labor on my own and be in complete focus and in a trance without being disturbed. I could see my bf annoying me, or my mom annoying me. I think I would feel comfortable with midwife though--because my midwife is very hands off and has been very open to what I'd want if we were to have the baby at home.

 

L and I believe it's an experience that should be between the parents so there won't even be a video tape in the delivery room.

[lostnscared]

L and I believe it's an experience that should be between the parents so there won't even be a video tape in the delivery room.

 

Ohmygosh I cannot see myself ever videotaping my labor. I don't know why, but I don't want people seeing it lol. I do believe that labor should be an intimate experience. I don't know, I would rather do most of it on my own(with the midwife) nearby. It's not that I don't want my bf or mom involved in the process. But I just feel like it would distract me. Besides when I had HG in the beginning of the pregnancy, and vomiting my head off, my bf would just look at me with pity and say he's "sorry". It just didn't help lol. When I'm in labor, not sure what he could do, beyond just try to say supportive words, or give me a backrub, lol.

 

I don't know when I get period cramps, or experience anything that is very personal I always retreat and want to be left alone, which could explain why I just want to be alone for the majority of my labor.

[OptomisticGirl]

L can do whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't look down there while I'm pushing. If he does he's going even more balder, lol. L's the type he never says anything when he knows something is wrong, he's just there and I Love that about him. He has stated that if it's a long labor he will nap and I told him he better not do it in the room with me because if I'm feeling any pain before my epidural, he's going to experience it with me, haha

[lostnscared]

L can do whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't look down there while I'm pushing. If he does he's going even more balder, lol. L's the type he never says anything when he knows something is wrong, he's just there and I Love that about him. He has stated that if it's a long labor he will nap and I told him he better not do it in the room with me because if I'm feeling any pain before my epidural, he's going to experience it with me, haha

 

Some men aren't like that. My mom said that my dad was a complete bum during her labor. He did nothing to help her support her, and just watched tv. My friend said her husband went to sleep, while she was crying in pain.

 

My boyfriend isn't like that--he hates seeing me in pain and gets worried, but he doesn't know the right things to say or do and I just think he would just be distracting me, unless he could be completely quiet and just sit there lol.

[OptomisticGirl]

Some men aren't like that. My mom said that my dad was a complete bum during her labor. He did nothing to help her support her, and just watched tv. My friend said her husband went to sleep, while she was crying in pain.

 

My boyfriend isn't like that--he hates seeing me in pain and gets worried, but he doesn't know the right things to say or do and I just think he would just be distracting me, unless he could be completely quiet and just sit there lol.

 

My dad almost missed by birth I came so quickly, lol.

 

As long as L doesn't say something about the pain not being too bad (which he never would anyway) I"ll be fine. I'm a baby when it comes to pain so knwoing I have his hand to squeeze will help.

[lostnscared]

My dad almost missed by birth I came so quickly, lol.

 

As long as L doesn't say something about the pain not being too bad (which he never would anyway) I"ll be fine. I'm a baby when it comes to pain so knwoing I have his hand to squeeze will help.

 

Completely understandable. Idk my boyfriend is not good at comforting IMO. I mean he never has been. It's not a negative thing, just something I've observed about him. Since I believe my labor will be painless I don't feel as though I would need his support in the way of comforting me due to pain. But moreso just helping me keep focus. If there is one thing I believe about labor, it's def. that it's a body-consuming process(literally taking over your body) and that there definitely needs to be a line of focus between the women and her body during labor. If my boyfriend could help me focus I would love for him to be there, but somehow I just can't see it.

[Batya33]

I believed my labor would be far more painful than it was in reality -it was very painful right before I asked for the epidural but not as bad for the first 10-12 hours. I couldn't have been transported to a hospital in time for my emergency c-section without dramatic risk to the baby - when I had my c-section we were about 15 minutes away from it being a real emergency instead of a potential one. Moving into a vehicle to be transported at that point would have been crazy in my situation. (much less waiting for an ambulance).

It was very important for me to have control over my own financial situation, our employment situation and relationship situation before we started trying to get pregnant and even more so after we got pregnant and were getting ready to give birth (as much control as anyone could have -I got pregnant during the recession lol). Wonderful people bought us things and gave us things (and still do!) but we didn't need those things in order to be able to support our family, and still do not, thank goodness, in large part because of all the planning we did (and of course luck and a higher power!!). It's interesting how there are different priorities about "control" and what control means. I don't believe all pregnancies are planned (unlike LS) but LS has posted that she now believes she chose to get pregnant when she did so that's the context.

 

I'm like OG -when it came to trying to conceive I knew much of it was not in my control and I did my best to eat right, take the right vitamins, prepare my body and increase the chances that if we tried at the right time, it would happen. Oh and lots of prayer and faith. One of the best mindsets that helped me in the first trimester during all of those scary tests, ultrasounds, weird symptoms was knowing that part of it was not in my control and accepting that. I promised to myself and my family to do my very best to care for myself and the baby while I was pregnant and we all understood that there was always a risk that even my best efforts might not work. It might not have worked had I opted for an at home birth so I am glad that was not something I even considered.

[BellaDonna]

If I were to choose a natural labor I would opt for a hospital that had one of those birthing rooms designed to look just like a home with minimal intervention that midwives work out of. I'd far be too worried not to have experts and medical professionals nearby. Even if your labor is an "easy" one you never know if the baby could have a medical condition that would require immediate attention from a pediatrician or pediatric surgeon. For instance, if an newborn has congenital heart issues at birth (unrelated to the birth itself), no midwife has the skills to address or diagnose that. Time waiting to drive or for an ambulance could be a life or death matter. It wouldn't be a risk I'd be at all willing to take even if medical issues like that in infants are rare.

 

The other situation that would worry me would be the possibility of the cord wrapping around the baby's neck, which is not something that can be predicted by a midwife, or doctor for that matter until it presents itself in the birth process. Only when the fetal heart rate starts to drop significantly does it become apparant how serious that situation is and by then it requires immediate action. It's estimated that about 25% of births involve the cord wrapping around some part of the baby's body. Not all of them lead to c-sections but if it a situation where the cord is around the neck tightly the outcome could be a stillbirth without extremely quick medical interventions to get that baby out.

 

Not all hospitals give women the option of a birthing suite with minimal intervention so I can understand why some families would rather give birth at home. It would just never be for me.

[Hope75]

I'm not really sure what your parents feeling generous and wanting to support their daughter who is pregnant with twins and not in the best financial or social position to be so and their future grandchildren has to do with your belief system making it happen so much as them not wanting to see you and their grandbabies in a shabby apartment with no health insurance and your boyfriend struggling to work and support you four (or you both working to support day care) and scraping to make ends meet? That's a hard stretch for me.

 

As for your allergies and eczema, another interesting fact you might like to know is that during pregnancy your immune system is naturally suppressed, and autoimmune issues such as allergies and eczema tend to improve somewhat dramatically during pregnancy as a result. Since your new belief system has occurred by your admission since becoming pregnant you might want to consider that this is also a normal, physiological occurrence that is common during pregnancy. If you look up other autoimmune disorders such as lupus, multiple sclerosis, etc, you will see that often during pregnancy women who have these conditions note a marked improvement in them for the same reasons.

 

I'm not telling you to discard your beliefs, or to have blind faith in the medical profession, (I tend to have issues with doctors myself at times), but so far the conditions you've described as 'curing yourself' by them improving or disappearing during your pregnancy are all normal documented well studied and known physiological facts that occur during the course of a pregnancy. I think it's important to have the facts so you can make an educated opinion about why you are feeling better in terms of allergies, morning sickness, and eczema before attributing it to some sort of special healing power you believe you have, as all of these things do happen during pregnancy normally anyway.

 

 

Oh, BTW, what are the 2 books you read about this philosophy if you don't mind my asking? Might make for some interesting reading for me.

[rocio]

I think that if you want a medical procedure done at home and it will only affect your life, that's fine. But to put an unborn child's life at risk just because you "feel" that home births are more "natural" for you, then you are not really thinking of the child in that case and what is best for them, and what will greatly increase their chances of survival. We are in an age now where we do have access to health care, so I think it makes sense to take advantage of it if you are physically able to. But it's not really a "person decision" when it affects someone else's life.

 

Epidurals are routinely given for the comfort of the mother although they do put the baby at greater risk. Inductions are routinely given for the convenience of the mother and/or doctor. This puts the baby at greater risk.

 

(of course, there are some situations where these are given for the benefit of the baby too.)

 

Now, the evidence indicates that home births do not increase the risk of infant mortality and that health outcomes for the baby are better at home than in hospital.

 

So there is a real double standard here when we start suggesting that mothers do not care about their children and are selfish for choosing a home birth.

 

1. It is not evidence based and

2. Even if it were, there would be a huge double standard.

 

Infant mortality rates are extremely low these days, both for home and hospital births. Everything in life is a calculated risk of sorts and we have accepted as a society that it is also important for the mother to have a positive experience, whether that means a relatively quick labor, a relatively painless one, or a natural one.

[lostnscared]

I don't know how to explain it because I know it seems like a hard stretch, but basically my dad and I have had a very rocky relationship. When I first started ENA I talked a lot about it. He is very controlling, manipulative, and only will "help" us out financially if it benefits or suits him. Because of this I had a very limited relationship with him, and I struggled this year--I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck, but I certainly wasn't living comfortable, and he rarely helped me out or made it into a big deal or something I would have to do to receive money(i.e. my sister must stay with me for two weeks, etc). Meanwhile(on another tangent) he buys his gf a nice apartment downtown, and spoils her like crazy. When I first found out I was pregnant he wanted me to get an abortion. HE did not talk to me, and would not talk to me. And when he did begin to talk to me, it was very minimal and phony. Around the time that I did start believing in manifesting what I wanted--I started thinking about what I would want to have for myself and child if I had it my way, if I had all the money in the world. A house, a nanny, not to struggle, my bf to have a good job out here, to have all the babies need and more etc. And then I only focused on those things, and did a bit of inner work(similar to what I will do about labor). Then my mom told me that she would like to get me a nanny because around that time, I was also in fear about having the baby and having to take are of it. My boyfriend got a call from his friend, saying that his brother law CAN get him a job in TN, whereas before it was not guaranteed, my dad came down here in the beginning of April and apologized for how he had been treating me, how the divorce went from my mom, etc, etc and then told me that he wanted to do something for me and the baby--get us a house. He said that he was looking at houses and that the prices were very inexpensive, and that though it would be in his name, he thinks that I would appreciate that a lot more than having to continue living with my mom until my bf started his job down here. And then from there things kept happening. Basically it all seemed to fall into place in very weird cosmic ways, and all around the time when I started doing the inner work and focusing.

 

My sister cured herself of an illness that had been bothering her since she was 6--she is 20 now. She is not pregnant. My mom cured herself as well(and I won't say from what, because no one would believe me anyway). And there were other things of course that have happened cosmically for all of us over the last few months that have been far beyond coincidence(at least in our eyes). My whole family practices it, beyond my older brother and dad(who both believe it's nonsense.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I do attribute these things going away not just as a result of the pregnancy but of my mind as well. It's just my belief. It may seem bizarre but I just believe it so.

 

The two books:

 

Nature of Personal Reality by Jane Roberts

 

Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul by Jane Roberts

 

Also currently reading my mom's book(she wrote one very similar) and reading material from her metaphysical study guides(she is working on her doctorate).

If you're aware of metaphysics and what it means then that is also very similar to this philosophy. Most of what I learned however, I learned actually earlier this year(back in September) from my mom, who has been dabbling in this for quite a while, and she's wrote two books on it(neither have been published). She's read a TON of books about it, so she is far more groomed then I am in it, but I could def. give you a book list if your interested.

[Batya33]

I guess if I won the lottery or, similarly, my parents wanted to give me lots of money as a gift (completely hypothetical and even if it could happen I would not want it to) I would never assume that was the result of anything I did or chose or wanted even if I practiced the philosophy you mentioned - it would be different if I worked hard to earn the money or accomplished a degree that then allowed me to get a job to earn the money, etc. - then I would attribute it mostly to myself and my work/effort (whether through the philosophy you mentioned or however I put in the effort) and only partly to luck/timing. I don't agree that the money I earned through my choices and hard work is the same as you getting money from your parents after you visualized it (and after you practiced your philosphy). When I thought about what I wanted for my life -the big goals I mean -I then took specific, concrete steps to try to reach my goals - put my all into it -while realizing of course that you also need some luck, some good timing and for me personally, faith in a higher being. But my blood, sweat and tears were the major part of it. Whatever I got through luck or through the generosity of others I never attributed to something I did in that same manner.

 

I would never have opted for a home birth even in a low risk situation and would advise against it for anyone if I was asked (and that's a very meaningful if -if I wasn't asked I would never think it was my place to give that sort of input - it's such a personal decision!)