Question to women about men with lower earnings

[shes2smart]

Something to ponder:

 

Is it really the money they want or is it security they believe money represents?

 

'Cause in most cases, I don't think it's the cash. That is too obvious, too visible, too easy of an answer. Claiming it's about money makes it (relatively) easily fixable or easy to evaluate others.

 

But if it's really about security and you try to tackle those intangibles like "feeling secure" and "feeling safe"...well, now, that opens up one big ol' messy can of worms, doesn't it? I mean, you have to really look at what scares you and why and what sort of changes you need to make in your thinking to feel safe/secure. Until you do that, all the money in the world isn't going to take away the fear.

 

Much easier to make it about the money and just say, "Oh, he doesn't make enough...."

 

I spent enough time in therapy to know that, most of the time, what you walk in the door and say is "the problem" really isn't the problem at all....

[savignon]

Well, I am actually feeling better after reading some posts. I was worried what is going to happen to me as this guy convincingly told me that women do not date down and I will also face the same problem some time down the lane.

 

If someone ever thinks you're "down" from them, whether it's about money, looks, backround, race, religion, upbringing....it has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU and everything to do with them thinking that it's even possible for a person to be "up" or "down" from another.

[lostnscared]

I don't know about other woman, but for me money represents a tool and a form of security. As a tool money helps with buying home, taking care of yourself and so on. As security it's what we fall back on and rely on to support our families and to make ends meet. In some cases people look at money as a way to live a lavish lifestyle.

 

I could be wrong but I know for a lot of the woman I know, a man that is barely making it or that has minumum wage salary or no drive to do better financially most often will not be able to help provide for a family. And with the cost of living the way it is, the cost of food and kids, it makes perfect sense for a woman to be concerned about that, especially if she knows that because he makes substantially less she'll have to carry a large chunk of the financial load.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Money to me is a means to an end (eating, living, supporting hobbies) and for supporting kids.

 

I know far too many people who could not continue their education due to their parent's financial status. I vow to never let my children make that sacrifice.

[Blue Spiral]

There are days when I think that "ambition" is just a codeword for "more money." Basically a more polite, acceptable way of saying it.

 

Then there are days when I think that ambition is just a status-symbol. It's apparently easier to defend a man to your friends and relatives if he has it. I picture women saying it the way they'd say "Oh, my boyfriend drives such-and-such car" or "My fiance went to such-and-such school." (And, yes, men do the exact same thing with physical appearance.)

 

I'm not really sure how I'm feeling about it today...aside from the horror stories on ENA, I don't waste much thought on it.

[shes2smart]

I'd be an idiot to say it didn't matter at all.

 

However, the way it has been presented in the OP's case is as if the woman in question is using current income as a sort of be-all, end-all measuring stick to decide if someone's "worthy" to be a relationship partner to her. Looked at a certain way, it's not that far off from women who practice the world's oldest profession, really.

 

Would I want a partner who refused to work? Nope. I have busted my butt to support myself, and I expect the same from a partner. No one gets a free ride. But that doesn't mean I'm going to insist that he make more than me or that he pick up an exactly equal share of the expenses or have some certain type of job. Honest work is its own dignity - no matter if one is working as a doctor or a garbage collector. I expect nothing more from a partner than I do from myself -- and that is to make a reasonable effort to create and maintain a comfortable life....after all, once you're in a committed relationship you are on the same team and that means both need to contribute to the team's well-being - whether that be in an emotional, spiritual, mental, physical or financial sense.

 

But there are too many people who equate money with security and expect money to do things it's not able to do.

[lostnscared]

There are days when I think that "ambition" is just a codeword for "more money." Basically a more polite, acceptable way of saying it.

 

Then there are days when I think that ambition is just a status-symbol. It's apparently easier to defend a man to your friends and relatives if he has it. I picture women saying it the way they'd say "Oh, my boyfriend drives such-and-such car" or "My fiance went to such-and-such school." (And, yes, men do the exact same thing with physical appearance.)

 

I'm not really sure how I'm feeling about it today...aside from the horror stories on ENA, I don't waste much thought on it.

 

You could be on to something.

[Cognitive_Canine]

There are days when I think that "ambition" is just a codeword for "more money." Basically a more polite, acceptable way of saying it.

 

Then there are days when I think that ambition is just a status-symbol. It's apparently easier to defend a man to your friends and relatives if he has it. I picture women saying it the way they'd say "Oh, my boyfriend drives such-and-such car" or "My fiance went to such-and-such school." (And, yes, men do the exact same thing with physical appearance.)

 

I'm not really sure how I'm feeling about it today...aside from the horror stories on ENA, I don't waste much thought on it.

 

I don't understand why people consider men to be physically shallow and women to be fiscally shallow.

 

Both sexes do the physically shallow thing. I hear women talk about a man's looks all the time. Rarely do I hear either sex talk about money. My mother is pretty big about money but, that's about it (and she's about as crazy as they get anyway). Other than her, I have never heard another woman talk to me about a man's money, income, or car unless they were just stating a fact. Never in a oo-la-la sort of fashion. And, she doesn't seem to concern herself with it when it comes to who she has married. All of her boyfriends/husbands have been something to look at but they've ranged from the quite rich to the average joe.

 

 

While "oh, my boyfriend drives such-and-such car" is a shallow statement, I believe "my fiance when to such-and-such school" is a point of pride and not of vanity.

[Gilroy]

And with the cost of living the way it is, the cost of food and kids, it makes perfect sense for a woman to be concerned about that, especially if she knows that because he makes substantially less she'll have to carry a large chunk of the financial load.

 

If I meet a wonderful and lovely woman tomorrow and she makes less than me should I be concerned about having to carry a large chunk of the financial load???

 

I ask this because I have never heard a man say that he is concerned about being the primary breadwinner or have to carry the major chunk of the financial load.

[Blue Spiral]

I don't understand why people consider men to be physically shallow and women to be fiscally shallow.

 

I don't know why/if "people" consider that, but I'll tell you why I consider it: I happen to be extremely shallow (though I halfheartedly try to fight it at times), and the women I've come accross are all about the ambition.

 

As for vanity versus point of pride...to me, it's all bragging rights/social competition. But I've never understood the social component of the relationship concept.

[Gilroy]

Just to let you guys know, the difference in salary between my friend and his girl is approximately 20K per year. To me it is not that big of a deal.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I don't know why/if "people" consider that, but I'll tell you why I consider it: I happen to be extremely shallow (though I halfheartedly try to fight it at times), and the women I've come accross are all about the ambition.

 

As for vanity versus point of pride...to me, it's all bragging rights/social competition. But I've never understood the social component of the relationship concept.

 

I find a big difference between being proud of your partner and bragging rights.

 

I am very proud of his achievements but I'm not one to brag. In fact, I don't like talking about my boyfriend in real life because people are so quick to roll their eyes and assume you're trying to show off.

 

There is a big difference between ambition and money too. A person with an extremely humbled lifestyle can be extraordinarily ambitious. I find that attractive.

[Blue Spiral]

I am very proud of his achievements but I'm not one to brag. In fact, I don't like talking about my boyfriend in real life because people are so quick to roll their eyes and assume you're trying to show off.

 

So...the important thing is that you're not trying to show off, but it's a coincidental byproduct of being proud?

 

Again, I'm an odd duck--I don't see the point in trying to establish one's worth in a social situation. I don't understand spectacle events like weddings or parties, and I don't understand social-status battling over pedigree and accomplishments.

 

Oh, and I absolutely agree that poor, humble people can have ambition, but they don't often get trophy wives.

[lostnscared]

Just to let you guys know, the difference in salary between my friend and his girl is approximately 20K per year. To me it is not that big of a deal.

 

That's about how much more I made than my ex.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a huge deal. But if she wants someone that makes the same amount as her or more then I suppose it's a big deal to her.

 

I can't really judge her without knowing her but I will say that she is entitled to desire what she wants, as horrible as she may sound there are women worse.

 

I think your friend probably needs to find someone who appreciates him for him and who doesn't mind if he made less than her because apparently this woman DOES mind.

[Gilroy]

So...the important thing is that you're not trying to show off, but it's a coincidental byproduct of being proud?

 

Again, I'm an odd duck--I don't see the point in trying to establish one's worth in a social situation. I don't understand spectacle events like weddings or parties, and I don't understand social-status battling over pedigree and accomplishments.

 

Oh, and I absolutely agree that poor, humble people can have ambition, but they don't often get trophy wives.

 

I think there is a difference between "My boyfriend went to Yale" and "My boyfriend drives a Porsche".

 

That is what Cognitive Canon is implying.

[Blue Spiral]

I think there is a difference between "My boyfriend went to Yale" and "My boyfriend drives a Porsche".

 

That is what Cognitive Canon is implying.

 

I know she is, I just don't agree. To me, one is a polite way of establishing status, while the other is more honest and blatant.

[Gilroy]

That's about how much more I made than my ex.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a huge deal. But if she wants someone that makes the same amount as her or more then I suppose it's a big deal to her.

 

I can't really judge her without knowing her but I will say that she is entitled to desire what she wants, as horrible as she may sound there are women worse.

 

I think your friend probably needs to find someone who appreciates him for him and who doesn't mind if he made less than her because apparently this woman DOES mind.

 

Her spending habits are shocking actually. Once they both went shopping and believe it or not she blew away $3750 in just one evening. She shops at places like Burberry, Gucci, Prada etc. He says that she does this quite often. And not to mention the $150 per person dinner dates.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Her spending habits are shocking actually. Once they both went shopping and believe it or not she blew away $3750 in just one evening. She shops at places like Burberry, Gucci, Prada etc. He says that she does this quite often. And not to mention the $150 per person dinner dates.

 

She is a "golddigger". A rare and scary find.

 

Do not let her bad behaviour and mentality scare you away from normal-sane women.

[Gilroy]

She is a "golddigger". A rare and scary find.

 

Do not let her bad behaviour and mentality scare you away from normal-sane women.

 

I am sorry... she blows away lot of money but it is her money. She did not make him spend the $3750. She just bought stuff for herself.. but man, she does spend a lot

[lostnscared]

I think it's important to note that there are different levels of ambition, and ambition in different areas. A person can be highly ambitious in certain aspects of their lives but not in others-i.e. a person can have a drive for happiness, but doesn't associate a career with happiness and by default isn't driven in their career. A person can have a drive for 'peace' and stability, and by default isn't driven to climb the corporate ladder but is content being the "average stable joe". A person can have a drive to take care of their family, but may not have a drive toward finances, and so forth. Basically ambition isn't just about a career. And of course not everyone will be AS ambitious about their career. There are people who want to drive their way to the top. There are others who want to make their way to the middle and stop there. And there are those who simply want to do enough to get by, get bonuses here or there, but would rather not deal with the added responsibility or roles that come with a higher up position.

 

I don't think any of this is wrong. But it boils down to values and personal goals. Some people just don't care about work and are driven by hobbies/outside life and that is quite fine, but that means more often than not they will not be able to sustain a relationship with a highly skilled professional or with a person that is driven by their career.

 

I think this case, this woman is driven by career and by finances and she just wouldn't be compatible with your friend because he is not. And this doesn't mean anything negative about him or her.

[lostnscared]

I am sorry... she blows away lot of money but it is her money. She did not make him spend the $3750. She just bought stuff for herself.. but man, she does spend a lot

 

Well if it's her money then I don't see why that's anyone business how she spends it. If she can afford to spend that much in one evening then more power to her.

 

But that should probably be a red flag to your friend, that this woman has a different value than he about money, spending, and career.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I know she is, I just don't agree. To me, one is a polite way of establishing status, while the other is more honest and blatant.

 

Do you see a difference between being proud of a partner being valedictorian and owning a porche?

 

Are both of those things still status statements?

 

I can kind of understand Yale being compared to owning a nice car because parents and finances can influence that. But, a valedictorian status is not affected by class or financial standing.

 

Just wondering.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I am sorry... she blows away lot of money but it is her money. She did not make him spend the $3750. She just bought stuff for herself.. but man, she does spend a lot

 

Okay, well, that's better.

 

But, it shows where her priorities are.

 

I've bought a Burberry purse before and I'll admit it's 100% a vanity thing.

[Tethys]

From what you have written about this woman, I think it isn't so much about the money as it is about status. Also, some women are concerned about a man's ability to earn even though they are "independent" because they want to be able to spend a few years at home when they have children and not have to put them in full-time daycare until they start school.

[The Archer]

I think the majority of women aren’t focused on a mans income but there are certainly some that are.

 

I find this whole concept of being able to “buy” a woman quite alarming.

 

Seriously I’m a very honest person but if I ever win lotto and find myself single I’ll be lying through my teeth to make sure a potential partner doesn’t know I have that extra money (to start with).

 

It would break my heart to think a partner would be unhappy with me earning a minimum wage. Or think of me less because I wasn’t “ambitious”. Very very different values.

 

My partner earns several times what I earn but it’s a non-issue for both of us.

 

Making a lot of money is not a relationship skill. Making a moderate (as opposed to minimum wage) amount of money is also not a relationship skill.

Although I suppose it depends on what kind of relationship one wants.

 

Money is only an issue if you make it an issue. Unless of course your below the breadline…