Women are selfish

[RLW]

If you don't like it when girls come crying to you, stop being available to them.

 

It is really is that simple. If you're so mad about it then stop putting up with it.

 

They only do it because you are apparently their friend, even if they know you feel differently, and are therefore treating you like a friend and going to you for comfort. If you don't like it then stop being friends with girls you want more from.

 

"apparently their friend". not when i make it very APPARENT that i see her as much more than a friend. if i really was only treated like her friend, it would not have been kept a secret from me (and only me, as i learned everyone that her and i know mutually had already been very well versed) until he dropped her.

 

and i did not put up with it. i told her how i felt about it and that was that. i did not put up with it the other times similar situations have happened with other women. If someone is my friend and nothing more, they know that. those people male or female (respective to previous statement about status) can cry to me all they want and i will always be available to them.

 

Protip: Don't assume when there is no real basis in a statement to lead one to it.

[Malakh]

im angry at how this person with there obvious faults was chosen over me, but im all of a sudden good enough to comfort her in her time of need when the person who is apparently better than me screws her over. its down right insulting.

 

RLW, if you assume that the girl will choose the better person then you are wrong. She is not going to be thinking in her head "hmmm... okay he is better than RLW so I am going to choose him". It does not happen that way. You may be a great guy and have a successful career and the other guy may be douche bag. But to her it does not matter. She goes for the guy that she feels attracted to.

 

If she chose the other guy over you the best course of action for you would be to drop the friendship with her and move on to some other woman. Either that or you must at least tell her to not talk about her boyfriend. If she truly cares for you she will continue the friendship and never open her mouth about her bf.

 

This exact same thing has happened to me as well. I got rejected and I said I can no longer be her friend. She begged me to stay friends. I agreed and told her that she cannot talk about her boyfriend to me. And she follows that.. for the past 5 years

[Blue Spiral]

After all, stereotyping is why humans are alive today.

 

I'm pretty sure that's actually opposable thumbs.

 

And, one could spend several dozen lifetimes thinking about how stupid some people are. I find it easier to just not think about it, and instead focus on the positive.

[Ms Darcy]

Until I come accross a reason to believe otherwise, i will continue to generalize. After all, stereotyping is why humans are alive today.

 

I know this. I am referring to the fact that after she illustrated I am inferior, She played on an assumption that i would be there because of my feelings for her. That in my opinion is one of the many definitions of "using".

 

What I have noticed from many men who call themselves "nice guys" and yet who complain that all women are selfish you-know-whats is that they are probably some of the most obnoxious people to be in a close friendship with let alone in a relationship with.

 

The incessant mentality that one is on the receiving end of a female's vitriol says more about the individual than the so-labeled woman. Let's assume this statement is true of your experience; every woman has been selfish. That means that all of the women in your life are selfish too - your sister, your aunt, your mother if you have those women in your life. And if the women in your life are this way, then it sounds like your family history is playing a role in the type of women you are choosing to associate with and it's a pattern that you need to get away from.

 

What you are showing boils down to a bruised ego. When you say she "illustrated that you are inferior" that says that her choice to date someone else triggered YOUR feelings of inferiority, born from past experiences and bred with continued failure. Perhaps she hid the relationship from you to spare your feelings. If so, she has in fact demonstrated some rather unselfish behavior ... not stringing you along on free dates while dating others and not bragging to you about a guy she likes better. She, like anyone you deal with, is a person who makes mistakes when emotions are involved. She was hurt, perhaps even heartbroken, and she came to you. That says something about the level of trust that she had believing you could support her; she may have also thought you a safe place where she could feel desired and not rejected.

 

In such situations I always feel like there is a "smart guy" response and a "perpetually single guy" response. For the latter guy, he gets angry that she would insult him by being selfish and miss out on what could have been a golden opportunity to make a good impression. For the former guy, he finds a way to acknowledge her hurt and confusion without offering her emotional support. He doesn't hold it against her so that whatever happens between them happens naturally - either a dating relationship or a friendship down the road. Putting a mirror to people's faces may help them think of you in a new light.

 

But I cannot get away from the notion that if you are the guy who keeps having the same negative experiences over and over with women, at the end of the day it's something about you ... and it's not that you are nice.

[In the Dark]

The hope that their (the woman's) love might transform them (the man), combined with having so much invested in being told "I love you, you're my whole world" enough times. There are a lot of young women who feel the price for being loved by a man who needs them in some way is worth taking the gamble that he might actually change all his selfish ways. And many little phony promises and faux "concessions" by him along the way keep that delusion alive.

 

And a lot of women are also convinced they deserve nothing better, so this guy's a prize to even have to begin with.

 

Lol.....to go and say the words the girl wants to hear, then the guy goes and finds someone else.

Sounds pretty contradictory and pointless.

 

At the end of the day, actions speak louder than words.

Sweet words can possibly be the only reason why she was in to this guy.

 

It could also possibly be the fact she is young and wanted the party guy that is very attractive and is one of the wanted men regardless of words and actions.

 

No doubt. But this is something that happens equally frequently with genders reversed. It's just very nonspecific, is the point.

 

And any person who finds themself in a situation where they have become so disrespected that another person can walk all over them is one word: HAD.

 

When you've been had, you'd better figure out how you got there. Chances are, you walked there as a willing victim somewhere along the way.

 

My apologies even though this is about a woman who used the OP for emotional support when she got burned digging the bad guy.

I should have been more PC.

Men & woman are capable of going for the happening person who burns them when something else better comes along and the emotional support then goes to the someone who genuinely wants something long term with them.

 

At the end of the day all we know is this girl is using the OP for emotional support.

 

It comes down to what do the majority of females want from a man at thier age?

 

The nice guy who understands their feelings who they can settle down with comfortably or the womanizing man who goes out and gets drunk who has a awesome party social life which is jam packed with senseless fun where there is generally a lack of commitment with an excuse to blame things on alcohol.

[RLW]

First off, I never referred to myself as a nice guy. I'm not a nice guy, I'm just not a total pos. You seem to be confusing caring about someone with being a doormat. If she actually cared and wanted to "spare my feelings", she would have never brought it up, at all. That would have been OK.

 

Also, i'm not a "safe place". I'm not here to validate someone, until they can find the person that they want to be validated by. Why would i want to make someone who rejected me feel "not rejected"?

 

"... and it's not that you are nice." - no, i'm not. i really don't know how this term in this sense came into play but it's a little annoying. if you have a character judgement about me just voice it. don't be coy. It IS the internet after all.

 

Why would i care about a good impression? I believe the smart guy response is the curb.

[RLW]

I would also like to make something clear. I am not ranting about how she chose someone else. that is not what upsets me. perhaps i wasn't clear on that. Yes, i felt burnt, but that is her choice, and anyone is free to make that choice. yes it made me feel inferior, that is MY problem not hers. I am upset at how she used me for support, when she knew how i felt. without that action my emotion is of no concern to her, but expecting me to be a shoulder brings it into play.

 

Mistakes cannot be excused by the emotion card. No matter what she was feeling at the time her choice of actions will not be excused by me. it is wrong to use someone, always.

[thedriver]

She sees you as only a friend. Like you said, isnt attracted to you apparently, so friendship is all your gonna get from her. Its not her fault, dont get wound up about it. She cant help who she likes and doesnt like.

 

When ppl upset like that, the last thing they probably thinking is "oh, RLW likes me, I best not hurt his feelings with this." she probably was thinking " * * * * , i need my m8, RLW right now."

 

Next time tell her you dont care, you dont want to hear about her bf cos of the way u feel bout her. If she's a true m8 she will understand. If you want more than friendship from her, tough luck c'est la vie!

[RLW]

She sees you as only a friend. Like you said, isnt attracted to you apparently, so friendship is all your gonna get from her. Its not her fault, dont get wound up about it. She cant help who she likes and doesnt like.

 

When ppl upset like that, the last thing they probably thinking is "oh, RLW likes me, I best not hurt his feelings with this." she probably was thinking " * * * * , i need my m8, RLW right now."

 

Next time tell her you dont care, you dont want to hear about her bf cos of the way u feel bout her. If she's a true m8 she will understand. If you want more than friendship from her, tough luck c'est la vie!

 

ive already explained that I KNOW and UNDERSTAND that she only sees me as a friend, NOW. that was not true 3 weeks ago before she started acting shady as hell and avoiding me only to come back boo hooing about this dude.

 

No offense, but this thread went from a simple angry rant, simple VENTING to an argument with a brick wall. not even a wall that is part of some sort of structure, with order and reason to it. just a wall. a wall that likes to make ridiculous unfounded (and untrue) assumptions.

[thedriver]

Personally, I think she only ever saw you as just a friend. Just my take on it, what do I know, eh?

Not saying it was wrong or right. People get caught up in their emotions. If you didnt want to be a shoulder to cry on, dont put yourself in that position.

[Ms Darcy]

Yes, i felt burnt, but that is her choice, and anyone is free to make that choice. yes it made me feel inferior, that is MY problem not hers. I am upset at how she used me for support, when she knew how i felt. without that action my emotion is of no concern to her, but expecting me to be a shoulder brings it into play.

 

Mistakes cannot be excused by the emotion card. No matter what she was feeling at the time her choice of actions will not be excused by me. it is wrong to use someone, always.

 

Your hostile responses to everyone on this board has made it clear that you feel misunderstood. I can't speak for anyone else but all I can say is that I hear you loud and clear; I simply do not agree.

 

In your first post you said: She chose some alcoholic "over a man who cares genuinely." That's what you said. So if that doesn't mean that you are a nice person, that's fine. NOW, what you are saying "why should you care if you make a good imression" (post 31) yet you "care genuinely" (post 1) about her. So you care about her but you don't. Yeah ... contradictions don't help your clarification.

 

What sounds clear is that you are downright indignant that someone you want - who does not want you - can do something that you personally don't approve of. You put yourself out there and you are being told to let go of the rejection. I think what others are seeing is what you are not. The rejection is playing far more into your bitterness than even you will admit, so when you try to explain it you say yeah that hurt, but the REAL problem is her. Eh, not really. Nothing she has done has risen to that level of hostility. So, the real problem is you.

 

I find your hostility to every response interesting, and I wonder how you interact with people in real life. Do you have any friends? Have you had a girlfriend before?

[Lovelace]

In the dark, what they want is the hot, sexy guy who's hard to get for everyone EXCEPT her, who is arrogant and sweet and strong, but reserves all of his softness for her.

 

They want both, but I'm not sure both can exist in one guy, so they bounce between the 'nice guys' who provide them emotional support, and the softness and sweetness, and the big, strong, sexy types who turn them on. If you want to win, be both.

[Ms Darcy]

At the end of the day all we know is this girl is using the OP for emotional support.

 

It comes down to what do the majority of females want from a man at thier age?

 

The nice guy who understands their feelings who they can settle down with comfortably or the womanizing man who goes out and gets drunk who has a awesome party social life which is jam packed with senseless fun where there is generally a lack of commitment with an excuse to blame things on alcohol.

 

The OP has made it pretty clear that he is not a nice guy. So, how does this fit in with your parardigm? We are judging the guy she chose from the perspective of someone who is obviously biased. Do we know he's actually an alcoholic or if just drinks a lot socially? If he is alcoholic, do we know if he's recovering? Do we know if this girl didn't betray this guy's trust to cause him to leave her? We know very little about this situation EXCEPT that being rejected made the OP feel inferior and that he's not a nice guy.

 

What I find so troubling about this view of women is that it turns a blind eye to all of the healthy happy men and women in healthy happy relationships. Men and women don't always fit into simple "nice" and "bad" categories. There are more nuances and one's method of choosing a partner has more to do with their age, experiences, and beliefs than their gender. As people grow, they learn and make different decisions about who they date.

 

I have also indicated in my opinion, that some traits some noted were those of a nice guy I thought were a bit clingy (wanting to spend all their time together, wanting the other person to reassure them about their looks, wanting to hear "I love you" all the time etc). You are welcome to your beliefs, just as the OP; I am simply encouraging you to see another side of things.

[galaxy71]

What I have noticed from many men who call themselves "nice guys" and yet who complain that all women are selfish you-know-whats is that they are probably some of the most obnoxious people to be in a close friendship with let alone in a relationship with.

 

I completely disagree with you. I actually think that the OP should be applauded for venting some negative feelings without worrying about getting harshly criticized and judged. The reason why these "nice guys" are complaining about women isn't the fact that they are obnoxious. Instead, they are frustrated with the way some women behave. They are frustrated with the fact that women seem to say one thing when women say that they are attracted to men who are caring, sensitive, and high character, then they see women date attractive men who are not caring, not sensitive, and have low character.

 

The incessant mentality that one is on the receiving end of a female's vitriol says more about the individual than the so-labeled woman. Let's assume this statement is true of your experience; every woman has been selfish. That means that all of the women in your life are selfish too - your sister, your aunt, your mother if you have those women in your life. And if the women in your life are this way, then it sounds like your family history is playing a role in the type of women you are choosing to associate with and it's a pattern that you need to get away from.

 

I don't know about the OP. But for me, I wonder why some women keep on downplaying the importance of how attractive a guy is when they talk about the guys they choose to date. I have seen plenty of threads where guys are discouraged from trying to improve themselves in order to make themselves more attractive. Don't be phony. Don't be fake. Just be yourself. Why are some guys being discouraged from improving themselves? I feel that some women are selfish as they don't want guys to improve themselves. They are afraid of feeling disappointed and manipulated when they realize that a high value guy is really a low value guy trying to be attractive to women.

 

What you are showing boils down to a bruised ego. When you say she "illustrated that you are inferior" that says that her choice to date someone else triggered YOUR feelings of inferiority, born from past experiences and bred with continued failure. Perhaps she hid the relationship from you to spare your feelings. If so, she has in fact demonstrated some rather unselfish behavior ... not stringing you along on free dates while dating others and not bragging to you about a guy she likes better. She, like anyone you deal with, is a person who makes mistakes when emotions are involved. She was hurt, perhaps even heartbroken, and she came to you. That says something about the level of trust that she had believing you could support her; she may have also thought you a safe place where she could feel desired and not rejected.

 

I agree with you here.

 

In such situations I always feel like there is a "smart guy" response and a "perpetually single guy" response. For the latter guy, he gets angry that she would insult him by being selfish and miss out on what could have been a golden opportunity to make a good impression. For the former guy, he finds a way to acknowledge her hurt and confusion without offering her emotional support. He doesn't hold it against her so that whatever happens between them happens naturally - either a dating relationship or a friendship down the road. Putting a mirror to people's faces may help them think of you in a new light.

 

But I cannot get away from the notion that if you are the guy who keeps having the same negative experiences over and over with women, at the end of the day it's something about you ... and it's not that you are nice.

 

You keep on blaming him for all his negative feelings. I think he should accept his anger and frustration. It's natural to feel frustrated when you are unable to achieve what you want in life-namely a romantic partner. I don't blame him for feeling frustrated that being the caring, sensitive, platonic friend does not work. I blame society for teaching him that he does not have to be attractive to women in order to get women. You don't need to be aggressive in showing your interest. Society don't need to be that confident, assertive, attractive guy. Instead women just want to date good, asexual, platonic, safe guys who repress their sexuality.[/i] Life is not fair. Women owe guys nothing. However if some people mislead guys into thinking that life is fair and women are attracted to guys based on his character alone, I think it is perfectly appropriate to be indignant at these people for raising false hope.

[greywolf]

I completely disagree with you. I actually think that the OP should be applauded for venting some negative feelings without worrying about getting harshly criticized and judged. The reason why these "nice guys" are complaining about women isn't the fact that they are obnoxious. Instead, they are frustrated with the way some women behave. They are frustrated with the fact that women seem to say one thing when women say that they are attracted to men who are caring, sensitive, and high character, then they see women date attractive men who are not caring, not sensitive, and have low character.

 

I do not agree. Woman are entitled to do whatever they want. Why do 'nice guys' feel that we should act differently for them? And usually 'nice guys' get upset when a girl leaves them for someone else. They think they are the caring and sensitive one, and they wonder why the girl left them for a jerk. The truth probably is that they're not really caring or sensitive. Everything they do is for a woman's approval. They do it just because they want the girl to like them.

 

If I suck up to my father and am the nicest and most caring person to him just so that he can put me on his will, is that really being nice?

[RougeKali823]

I do not agree. Woman are entitled to do whatever they want. Why do 'nice guys' feel that we should act differently for them? And usually 'nice guys' get upset when a girl leaves them for someone else. They think they are the caring and sensitive one, and they wonder why the girl left them for a jerk. The truth probably is that they're not really caring or sensitive. Everything they do is for a woman's approval. They do it just because they want the girl to like them.

 

If I suck up to my father and am the nicest and most caring person to him just so that he can put me on his will, is that really being nice?

 

The OP is venting and as a woman I am not offended because I happen to think that we as women today seem to be a little confused about what it is that we want. In all honesty quite a few women are confused about whether they want a good man, a "bad" man or perhaps if they even want men at all. Now in terms of the OP's situation I can understand his frustration since I have witnessed this behavior among women through my male relatives and friends. Some women will take for granted the care of a nice guy (I have been guilty of this) and instead opt to deal with a man who is less than what they deserve for reasons only known to them. This I am sure if is confusing to the good men who then are led to believe they are not doing something right. I have seen great guys go turn into monsters because they were tired of getting left in the dust by women. Obviously their willingness to morph speaks to their character but sometimes when evaluating a problem it is necessary to first inspect the conditions which allow it to exist. The conditions right now are women who seem confused about what they want.

[greywolf]

That implies that men are not in control of their own behavior. No one can control how others treat them. All you can do is control how you react to it. Let's all take personal responsibility here. Empower yourself.

[RougeKali823]

That implies that men are not in control of their own behavior. No one can control how others treat them. All you can do is control how you react to it. Let's all take personal responsibility here. Empower yourself.

 

Again, focus on the conditions which create the problem. You empower yourself by gaining and acting on knowledge, and as a 23 year old working on my M.A. (in Theory) I think I know something about that. The poet Maya Angelou promotes the statement that "we teach people how to treat us." Moreover, we encourage certain responses through our behavior. It's irresponsible to behave as if our actions don't affect others. Logically you allowing someone to curse at and around you is teaching them that this behavior is either permissible by you or not a concern of yours. Additionally, you by permitting this behavior would then be laying the groundwork for the individual to act as if they are surprised upon learning that you disagree with their behavior. This response is not an indication of a lack of self control but a natural response. I realize accountability is becoming a thing of the past as people start simply living for self pleasure but we don't reside here alone and our actions have consequences. Until we as women accept this and stop playing the blame game the problems will persist.

[Ms Darcy]

You say several things I disagree with.

 

1. That the OP should be applauded for venting without being harshly criticized.

The OP isn't being harshly criticized, but he is being challenged. If you don't like to be challenged, don't post "Women are selfish" on a public advice forum. If anything, the harsh criticism came from the OP to anyone who disagreed with him.

 

2. Nice guys aren't complaining because they are obnoxious; it's because they are frustrated with how some women behave.

This goes to the idea of bias. I understand that you feel you are a nice guy, that you get the short end of the stick, and that you can relate to the OP. BUT relating to a situation doesn't automatically make it accurate, so I was just providing another perspective from my opinion.Not all self-titled nice guys are nice.

 

Also, please note that the OP doesn't even think of himself as a nice guy. It's a label that others ascribed to him and he has rejected.

 

3. I wonder why women keep downplaying the importance of attractiveness in terms of the guys they choose to date.

The importance of attractiveness varies with the woman, but it is definitely important. I think it's often important with the "hot" women, or women who are judged to be very attractive in and of themselves. I can't say definitively that all women downplay that but "attractive" women aren't necessarily going to want someone they aren't attracted to because he cares about her feelings.

 

4. I keep blaming him for his negative feelings.

I wouldn't use the word blame. I would say that he is responsible for his own feelings. It's ok to vent about a certain girl, but when you start to vent about a pattern then I say hold on cowboy ... maybe you need to self-reflect on this situation. Perhaps you are choosing only "uber attractive" women who are more likely to choose "uber attractive" guys. Perhaps you are choosing emotionally unstable women because you want to rescue them. Perhaps you are choosing emotionally unavailable women because you want the challenge. There are any number of options. BUT the purpose for challenging him is to challenge him to grow. Examine yourself, see if there is a self-defeating thought process inside of you, and make changes.

 

5. There are plenty of threads where guys are discouraged from trying to improve themselves.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I think self-improvement is 75% of the journey towards finding a new partner. Self-improvement takes many forms and can entail physical fitness, a new "look" fashion-wise but mostly an improvement in mood, a change in attitude, a more positive outlook, a more expansive view of women he may choose to date, even therapy. Self-improvement is crucial and staying stagnant will eventually rot the best of relationships not to talk of prevent someone from starting one.

 

6. You say this of Society...

 

I don't want to date asexual, platonic, safe guys who repress their sexuality; I don't know many women who do. I don't know anyone who says that is attractive either. From my perspective, the real truth is that some women want more masculine men and some women want men who are masculine yet in touch with their emotional inner being; it's the latter expecation which can be very confusing to men ... but that doesn't mean that women want asexual in the very least.

 

Women are not attracted to guys based on character alone BUT that does not mean if dating was only a contest of character that you or the OP would "win" because 1) one's personal assessment of one's character may not be spot on and 2) relationships often ignite with attraction and communication and run on compatibility and commitment ... not just character.

[RLW]

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. I am not angry at the situation of the woman choosing another man over me. I seriously AM NOT. Yes i am hurt by it, that kind of thing happens, its inevitable. Thats her right to choose whom she wants.

 

What i am angry about is that she expected me to coddle her after i had been hurt. No she didnt see me as a friend, cause around the time she started acting like a total stanger to me is about the time they had there fling or whatever you want to call it. It made me feel like a tool when she wanted me to just serve the role she needed at the time.

 

It really has developed into an interesting conversation, but most of the points i see being argued are supporting a side that is entirely fictional. I really have no idea why some people in this are insisting i am mad at her because i was rejected. i simply am not.This is why i am responding in a hostile manner to a majority of the posts. i am being acused of doing something that i agree is wrong. and since it is not true, and after trying to explain that it is not true i am still accused of being angry at someone for a personal choice. I feel that i was used for support and knew very well that when that support was not needed i would be met with the same avoiding attitude from this person again. thats what im ranting about.

[RLW]

genuine does not mean nice, it means genuine. and after she made it apparent that i was a damn toy, no i didnt care about making a good impression in the situation. and yes i have friends, and i have had relationships. this level of hostility is risen by a misunderstanding, and both sides of an argument being created at once without the other partys input. It was not risen by her.

[Malakh]

What i am angry about is that she expected me to coddle her after i had been hurt. No she didnt see me as a friend, cause around the time she started acting like a total stanger to me is about the time they had there fling or whatever you want to call it. It made me feel like a tool when she wanted me to just serve the role she needed at the time.

 

What do you mean by "started acting like a total stranger"?

 

In any case, I can exactly understand your frustration. I am sure she was very friendly with you and all of a sudden started to put a distance. That was the time she got with her new man. And now that her man ditched her she wants to run to you for emotional support. It is very obvious that she is using you. She feels rejected by her man so she runs to the man that she knows admires and wants her. Make sense? She can run to her other platonic friends but they cannot comfort her the way you do. Why? Because they do not want her in a romantic manner. But you do.

 

It is in your best interest to cut the cord with this girl and move on. Otherwise she is going to use you for the emotional support and then drop you off when she gets with another guy.

[Cherokee]

I wouldn't say that all women are like that. Infact, the majority of them are not. However, I know that this is a bold statement, but if there is one thing a woman cannot resist besides diamonds, it's drama. Women, kind or cold hearted, love drama. A good friend of mine from college recently broke up with her boyfriend of 3 years. He's an incredibly nice guy, and he seemed to treat her very well. When I asked her why she did this, she told me that they were too much alike, agreed on everything, and that she found herself making up things to argue about just to argue. That's just one example though. A nice guy may say all the right things, and have a stable lifestyle and mind, but no matter how many females deny this, to them that's not really interesting or exciting.

 

Sorry about your troubles.

[RLW]

what i mean by total stranger is she stopped speaking to me on the basis in which we had been for many months, and her demeanor around me was as if i was a pest. perhaps stranger was the wrong word. she started treating me more like a neutral aquaintence.

 

trust me i have no desire to persue this woman after this.

[GoneCrazy]

I ask t he same question all the time when i hear a story of a girl who goes back to a guy who treats them like crap. But i guess its the whole bad boy thing, the confidence high esteem and all that comes with it.

 

Also some might wanan take it as a challange and change him for the best, personally i would take the okay guy who has problems with confidence, and fear, at least at the end of the day he will use his hands for loving reason and not to beat her accross the face. This world that we live in.