Male Rape?

[tiger_lilies]

I have a very unsual story regarding my best friend/boyfriend of 2.5 years. First let me say that I trusted my boyfriend wholeheartedly and we had a great relationship before that horrible night.

 

The short version is this; My boyfriend went out drinking with his single buddies one night. We lived together and I don't enjoy drinking as much so decided to stay home that night. My boyfriend went pub crawling and he and his friends ended up at this house party.

By the time my b/f got to the party, he was already really drunk, he did some more drinking there and found a couch to rest on. He says she closed his eyes and was woken by some girl who started making small talk with him. She asked him who he was there with, what he'd been up to that night, etc. She continued to says stuff like, "Pretty drunk eh? Pretty tired huh?" My b/f said he could barely see her and mumbled a yes in response.

She asked him if he would like to crash on a bed upstairs. Like a fool he agreed and followed her upstairs to a bedroom. He says he saw the bed and passed out.

 

He was woken to a jerking feeling, like someone was taking his belt off. But because he was so drunk, he thought he was at home. (I've had to help him to bed before in this state) So, he says he "let it happen".

As soon as he realized what was going on, he pushed her off and stood up in a daze. He said that he sobered up real quick and asked her what was going on. She responded by saying, "I thought this was what you wanted."

My b/f said, "You gotta be kidding me." And he walked out to look for his friends to leave the party.

 

He didn't tell his friends what happened that night, instead he sat in a parking lot close to our home and contemplated what just happened. He came home and fell asleep next to me.

 

He didn't tell me anything for the next two days. Finally the guilt got to him and he confessed. I kicked him out that night. That was one month ago. I've had an extremely hard time dealing with this.

 

My b/f is not the type of person to intentionally cheat on me. It's extremely out of charachter for him. None of my friends believe his story, but anyone who knows him, like his friends and family, all believe him.

 

We've talked since then and I think I can forgive him, but as to getting back together with him...well, that's so much more harder.

 

Is this male rape? He says he feels violated, but for some reason, it's not the same situation because he's male. If the roles were reversed, I would be screaming rape. Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel so lost because this is so out of the norm.

[playmate0925]

It usually isn't considered rape unless the victim says no, and the other person continues anyway. It sounds like he was just taken advantage of, which can happen easily when someone has too much alcohol. But if he didn't do anything with her and pushed the girl away when his head cleared, then I don't see why your relationship would need to end. You should try to get him to stop drinking as much though, because that can tear couples apart.

[liltasha]

I don't know if your phrasing was just mixed up playmate0925 but if not, then I don't agree with the sentence:

 

It usually isn't considered rape unless the victim says no, and the other person continues anyway. It sounds like he was just taken advantage of, which can happen easily when someone has too much alcohol.

 

If you're unable to say 'no' - drunk/drugged/whatever reason - but you do not want to have sexual intercourse with someone then its rape surely. If this was a girl who was drunk and woke up to find some guy having sex with her then that would be rape right? Same goes thereforeeee if the drunk person is male.

 

tiger_lilies - if you boyfriend was drunk and didn't know what was going on until too late, then he's done nothing wrong - albeit be a little naive perhaps about going upstairs. Imagine the distress if this was a girl who had been raped - your boyfriend will be experiencing the same emotions and needs YOUR support. Its up to him whether he reports this or not, but please support him.

 

You say you trust him and that the people who know him well (his friends and family) believe what happened. I'm having difficulty trying to figure out exactly why you 'think' you can 'forgive' him - if he was 'raped' then he's got nothing to be sorry about - its not his fault. You shouldn't be making him feel guilty.

 

If you can't deal with it - and think that in the longterm this has wrecked your relationship then thats your problem but I don't really see how this is helping him cope with what must be very distressing. Whatever you are feeling, this guy has done nothing wrong and thereforeeee deserves your support - at least help him through it - in your first sentence you described him as your 'bestfriend' - treat him like one.

[The Morrigan]

I had this happen to me actually when I was younger and very naive.

 

I considered it rape.

 

If you don't have the capacity to object or agree - it's rape or attempted rape, pure and simple. If she thought it was what he wanted - she'd have made sure he was in a condition to at least assent - not waited til he was passed out. I mean seriously - how many normal healthy guys and girls look for someone to be in a "victim" position to "take advantage" and then say they assumed it was wanted? If you've got to wait til someone can't say no - you're pretty much admitting they wouldn't say "yes" if they had their say.

 

He probably feels at fault for being naive and not thinking ahead of time something like this could happen - but realistically - especially if you're with friends, and friends of friends, you don't expect someone to take advantage this way since it's basically predatory behavior. Of course, now he'll probably be much less trusting and more careful - but you don't expect someone you know, or someone a friend knows, to do something like this.

 

Seems to me having basic trust that people he'd meet through friends was his only real "fault" here, and that's not a fault as much as the typical mindset that anyone who would act this way would show it on the surface - when in reality it's almost ALWAYS someone you know and trust to an extent - hence the statistics for date and acquaintance rape being the VAST majority over stranger rape. It's just not something anyone likes to think about - that the person you're sharing a drink or coffee with, or who dated a friend, could be the one who's actually thinking of what he or she would do if you were helpless to avoid it.

 

He wasn't in a position to say "NO" and she saw him as a victim to be taken advantage of - maybe moreso because the typical man's being a bit bigger and stronger was of no help to him. It was blatant victimization. She was a sexual predator. If she thought he'd have said yes, she'd have put moves on him before he was drunk. So she knew damn well he wasn't interested, and took advantage. Honestly - who would PREFER an unresponsive passed out partner for sex if they thought they could have someone who was in a condition to particpate?

[tiger_lilies]

Thanks so much for your opinons. All my close friends whom I've talked to about this don't believe his story. Which makes me feel like I might be blindly believeing him. My gut instinct is to believe him.

 

I agree about needing his support if the roles were reversed. I kicked him out that night because he came to me saying that he cheated on me. I didn't give him a chance to tell me the story because I was so histarically upset until he wrote me a letter a few days later explaining everything.

 

I admit that it's easier to deal with knowing that this was non-intentional. If he intentionally flirted with her etc, then I wouldn't even look back. But because he was taken advantage of, it changes everything.

 

We are talking now, not arguing. I hope to rebuild our relationship only if he contols his drinking. He says he'll never drink irresponsibly like that again. Sometimes he gets so wasted he is incoherent to anything around him. To me, it's a sign of immaturity and being irresponsible. I hope he will grow up and realize how stupid his drinking is.

 

Thanks again for your advice and opinions.

[routerx]

Sorry, I don't buy his story.

 

#1) Was he foolish enough to get so drunk he was incoherant? Yes

#2) Was he foolish enough to take a girl up on an offer to go "sleep" in a bed? Yes

#3) Was he foolish enough to let her lie down next to him? Yes

#4) Was he foolish enough to allow her to undo his belt? Yes

 

I would give him a break of only 1 or 2 of these things happened. All 4 happened. His version of the story is quite unbelievable.

 

Either A) He's foolish over and over and over again or B) He cheated on you

 

Take your pick

[Ash]

Um, just a second. Hang on there.

 

The first question that needs to be answered, so you believe the story? Or are you asking us if the story is a true representation and you don't personally believe it.

 

If the story is a fabrication for him to cover his butt, then no, of course he wasn't raped. I'm not quite sure if this is what you wish us to judge though.

 

If you believe the story is factual, then I would say he was raped, although you did leave the part out where actual penetration was implied.

 

Fact of the matter is, guys are likely pretty easy to rape. On an intellectual level, they may be saying no, I don't want sex. On a physical level though, they may get turned on enough against their wills be really put up much resistance.

 

I wouldn't say I was raped, but I did feel violated once because of circumstance. Were I a female under similar circumstances, I would have possibly judged the unwanted advance as rape.

 

It doesn't seem as bad for a guy as it's not as personally intrusive. But it can have a very negative emotional impact.

 

If you don't wish to have sex, and for whatever reason you are unable to exist, physically, emotionally or some other way, then I'd say it's a form of rape. It may not be violent, or highly forced. That's the way I see it anyway, of course I'm just one person.

 

Think of it another way, as decent people (hopefully), would we ever consider having sex if we thought there was the remote possibility our partner at the time really didn't want to? There's consentual sex, and rape. I don't think there is an in between. Yes mean yes. Everything else really should mean no.

[john one]

There are always two sides to a story. If this girl (suspect rapist) were to hear of the allegations, she might offer a completely different recollection of the way everything went down. Who knows which story would really be true? That's not an easy situation to deal with. I guess you'll have to communicate, take everything into account -facts as well as intuition- and decide how to best think of it all so that you can be at peace with yourself.

 

As far as guys getting raped, I think a large percentage of those reported cases of a guy getting raped are ridiculous. Yes there are times when guys have too much to drink, but if those same guys were getting sexually advanced on by a man who was trying to rape them, I believe that those same guys who are supposedly too drunk to do anything about it, will fight like you've never seen a man fight before or at least show that kind of effort. Most men would rather risk it all then to get raped by another man. My belief is that in most cases involving women "raping" men, it's not really rape because the man doesn't truly have that "no, no, no, I don't want this to happen to me" mentality that he would if the "attacker" were a man.

[The Morrigan]

Hold on a minute...

 

Let's assume here that what's being told is exactly the truth for a second.

 

I'm going to detail out exactly what happened to me, and I'll bet the concensus will be "he raped you."

 

Went over to a friend's house, and another friend calls, saying we're gonna get together at a third friend's dorm. So we all head over there, maybe oh, 6 of us total, between 2 adjoining dorm rooms sharing a bathroom. 3 girls, 3 guys. We order pizza, break open a few 6 packs of beer, watch a movie. Now, none of these guys had ever as much as made a pass or acted in any way that was other than gentlemanly, ever, in the 8 months or so I'd known them. One of the guys asked us to just stay since we were drinking, even though I didn't think I'd had much I was getting really buzzed, so we said we'd just crash there and drive home in the morning. Somehow I went from "buzzed" to "passing out falling down drunk" with no intention of getting to that point - yes, this part I was stupid, as far as I didn't realize how drunk I was getting until it was a bit late to worry about it. So when one of the guys insisted on sleeping on the floor and offered the bed, I accepted, hell, I wasn't capable of arguing, I was fully dressed, so I lay down and was passed out within minutes. Next thing I remember is this guy on top of me, he had already moved my shorts off to the side and penetrated me without me waking up at ALL, and even whe I woke up, I was aware of what was happening, but, I couldn't even say a word or move, and no, he wasn't restraining me at all, he didn't have to. I was just barely aware of what was going on, I actually passed out again and came to slightly again as he was pulling out, and still couldn't even mutter a word, much less shove him off. I couldn't even be scared at the time, it was like it was happening to someone else, I was THAT out of it. I didn't fully realize what had happened until an hour or so later, and THEN I lit out of there leaving my friend, my jacket, and anything but myself and my purse - at about 4am. I couldn't believe it had really happened. I was a bit shaken, since this guy was someone I knew, or thought I did, but mostly betrayed and upset, and angry, very angry, and felt like an absolute idiot for being so trusting and naive.

 

Now, was this rape? On the face of it - I didn't say no, even when it could be argued I was partly aware of what was going on. How many people would really believe I couldn't say no? None, the few people I told figured it was consensual and he'd had second thoughts the next day, nobody had heard me scream or protest - so, it must be consensual, right? (And people wonder why more rapes don't get reported...)

 

IMO - Bullcrap. I was responsible for being young and stupid, and drinking too much - and that was all I was responsible for. Being young and stupid, a putting yourself in a vulnerable position, does NOT make you responsible for the person's behavior who is low enough to take advantage of that. Took me a bit of growing up to learn to put the faults where they belonged, but I can't see someone being blameless because it's someone's naivity they're taking advantage of.

 

And honestly - if this guy is telling the truth, nobody except another who's been there so to speak can believe it CAN happen where you are THAT incapcitated. There doesn't have to be any subconscious agreement or desire for it - because I sure as hell didn't have either. Not saying it's COMMON, but it's certainly possible, and it's demeaning and not a good feeling to know when you're that much at someone else's mercy through your own misjudgement. That he's a guy shouldn't even be an issue - can't call rape simply on the basis that I'm a girl and he wasn't.

 

Judge for yourself on his behavior when he's been drunk before, and how he's acting now - generally someone who's innocent doesn't behave the same as one who's genuinely guilty. Do his actions now seem like he's being genuine with you?

 

/ends rant with apologies

[tiger_lilies]

I am so sorry to read your story Morrigan. My heart goes out to you. Your story helps me put my thoughts in perspective. I've questioned myself about why my b/f didn't come to me for support? Instead he came and said he cheated on me, of course I immedietly I thought the worse. This is why half of me believes him and the other does not.

 

My b/f is going through a lot of emotions right now. He and I are both changing our minds about each other. About whether we should even be together because that night brought up other hidden problems in our relationship.

 

But your story gives me hope. I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and try to be more supportive. I've been so caught up with my own crazy emotions that it caused me to feel very suspious of him. Even though I know deep down that he is a wonderful person.

 

As for the way he's acting, he seems really remorseful. He says he wants to work things out. But I've put up a fight because of my anger for one month, that I think he's starting to lose hope.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience Morrigan. I hope that light at the end of the tunnel will still be there when I talk to him tomorrow.

[Ash]

Yes, it can be a fuzzy line whether you can live with the way a person is or not. Somebody may do wonderful things, and be thoughtful toward you one day, and do something bad the next. Is one negative enough to end things? Should we settle for the happy medium? Bad things are going to happen. Terrible things done once may end a relationship. It depends on how each of you are able to handle it.

 

We each have to decide how much faith and trust we put in each other. Being truly remorseful is hopefully an honest emotion on his part, and means that he cares about you. Regardless of what exactly happened, and why it happened, your boyfriend does feel guilty. Sex can makes us feel guilty even when everything is right and proper. So certainly, anything at all goes wrong, the reasons, the intent, for sure there is going to be guilt.

 

Forgiveness is a very powerful thing too. You may both find you have to forgive him regardless of what really did happen, his fault or not. It's maybe part of the healing process in this regard. Regardless of what and why, you may need to say the words to yourself to help you move past it. And he may need to hear those same words to ease his pain over it.

[writer68]

There is difrent forms of rape the form your boyfriend had was drug rape. Watch him for a sexual identity crisis.

[tiger_lilies]

What do you mean sexual identity crisis? Like he might be gay???

[writer68]

I don't mean to alarm u but when a male is raped many this can happen. One of which is the fact that he will question his sex prefrence. He'll be a touch me not. He'll loose trust in people. Have you noticed this or any other changes in him.

[tiger_lilies]

Well, no, I don't think that he's questioning his sexuality....this is all new to me and I've been doing research to find what other males go through when raped by a female. There's not much out there, this topic is not covered by many and I assume it's quite embarrassing for most men. I assume their feelings are similar to women who've been raped, but it must be different in some way?

 

I haven't noticed any of what you said. He says he feels violated, but he never really talked about it. He was more concerned about making things better between us instead of focusing on being "taken advantage of". In fact, I felt like it was almost no big deal to him, that it was more of a big deal that I was having such a huge problem with it. Because to me, his act of stupidity/naiveness caused major trust problems for me.

 

Do you know much of this type of rape? Can you give me any insight on it? Thanks for your opinion Writer.

[writer68]

My rape was a tad diffrent, it was done by a male who choked me, and then penetrated me in the rectum. My best advice to you is let him do the research, and talk to him about it. Guys don't talk about it because they fear they will be labled gay. You know the old saying its a woman's problem.

[Meow18]

I'm really worry to hear about this tiger_lilies. I hope your boyfriend is doing ok. Whether he was technically raped or not, he needs to work on his drinking problems, which I know you said earlier that he said he would. Make sure he does because he doesn't want to be in any more situations like this. He needs you right now, so I'm glad you are understanding & supporting him. Thats what he needs. I don't think you need to worry about him becoming gay over this or whatever because obviously he still loves you, so just be there for him. Thats really all you can do right now. Maybe later on, if he's still feeling violated, or still feels horrible, he should talk to a psychologist, but only if he wants to. Also let him talk to you. DOn't force him to tell you what he's feeling, that will just make him not want to talk even more, but just let him know that you are there to listen if he ever needs to talk about it. I wish you both the best of luck!

[Ingrid]

I BELIEVE A WOMAN CAN RAPE A MAN

 

A very good friend of mine, not a bf, told me that once he was very drunk and could not drive home from a party. He then went to this woman's house to sleep and she got him in the mood, and they had sex. He went home and showered for hours. He felt violated. He is a very good and trustworthy friend and I believe him fully.

 

Question : Did your bf showered for hours? This is a very common behaviour in rape victims.

 

CHANCES ARE STILL HIGH HE IS LYING TO YOU

 

Is it normal for him to stay over other people's houses when he goes out drinking? In other words : Did he need an excuse for being late? My first impression is that he is lying to you.

 

I'D SAY WATCH HIM CAREFULLY FROM NOW ON

 

Normally, he should learn to be more careful from his experience. Is he drinking as often? Is he staying over?

 

Be careful, he may not only be a liar and a cheater, but also an alcoholic! This is very serious. Face reality.

[Eh Im Canadian]

Well, I think his story is true. Why else would he tell you, I mean, it sounded like they actually didn't really have sex, at least not for very long. It's your decision what to do. It sounds like he has a serious problem with drinking, and I think that is the main problem here, not the "rape". Whether or not he is telling the truth, he knew the consequences when he told you, and he accepted them. He trusted that you would understand. It takes a lot of willpower to do what he did, and even if he isn't telling the truth, he deserves some respect for that. You can't have a good relationship without trust, so it's your call. But even if you two do split up, You should help him with his drinking problem, because I have several addictions, none of them harmful to myself, like drinking, drugs, cutting but even mine are hard to get rid of. Good Luck