Okay, so I have a Problem.

[Jayar]

I don't know if I have posted this here before, but I have a problem. It isn't that I am SCARED of love, I am just terrified of tying my life up in someone else's. Let me explain...

 

A while back I got over some serious financial trouble by the grace of God. Or better yet, my parents. Basically like a lot of young people with school and a vehicle and wanting to be out on my own, I racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt. My pay (and I make about twice to three times what the average university graduate makes) was going to bills and interest on loans I mathematically could not have paid off in a lifetime. Serious trouble. My parents bailed me out. Clean slate. I have not had debt of ANY kind (not even a single credit card) for a long time now. My credit is impeccable and I'm basically set for my own life with savings, enough money coming in to pay bills (and have fun now that thousands a month aren't going to minimum payments).

 

This should be a good thing, right? Except that this weekend I had a date with a cute, charming, funny guy that I won't be seeing again... Why? Because he's where I was a few years ago... Up to his eyeballs in debt. Hell, like MOST people nowadays. So I realized this weekend that my fear of being in debt and suffering financially literally makes me incapable of having a relationship with probably 75% of the general population my age.

 

Maybe it's because I can't just see a guy I like hanging out with... I see him wanting to get married (which in Canada means legally sharing debt) and I see the whole moving in together and sharing finances with someone who thinks it's OKAY to have ten credit cards, and thinks the POINT of them is so that you are able to spend what you don't have yet... And that terrifies me more than being alone.

 

Gawd, what do I do?

[liquer]

Tough call, you want to be debt free but if you marry someone you share their debt.

 

I’d talk to him and explain your fears to him or any man you want to marry

[AwdreeHpburn]

find a way to help??

 

Not this guy per se, but if there's someone you really like who's in a really bad place financially, I don't blame you at all for being weary or wanting to run for the hills.

 

But maybe you could take the course of a relationship, before it gets to the marriage stage, to help a guy work out his issues, payments, debts etc. You said yourself you needed the help. We ALL need help.

 

And in most relationships, that I know of anyway, there is one person who's the keeper of the budget. Just been my experience that its usually who ever is better at math or is the more frugal.

 

Establish that for your own relationship early on. THEN, by the time you're ready to marry the guy, he'll be used to knowing that you're the better one with the money and you'll know where the money is and what the bill situation is....

[KAT MOMMY]

Listen lets be realistic here-if it wasn't for your Parents then you would still be in the same pool of majority of the world in our age range. no one is perfect and everyone has been in debt at one point in time in there life and many of people are not lucky enough to have anyone bail them out-so please keep that in mind when you are speaking and thinking. SO what happened if you were still in debt and you met a good decent male who was up the ladder of success but refused to be with you because of your past and debts owed?? How would that make you feel?

Never judge a book by it's cover and just as you have made mistakes other have to but you have to think logical and know that it will take a average person time to repay those debts and if you are serious and want a future with an average guy then you have to deal with the good bad and ugly. Nothing is perfect and all good things come to an end just like it get greater later so really it is a win lose situation and you can't go around judging someone based on their credit rating and besides who is to say that the guys you are metting are willing to marry you?? Money doesn't buy happiness but it is a damn good down payment and to be honest the best things in life are free. Don't get me wrong either it counts because love don't pay the bills but at the same time you should want to be with a person because you admire who they are.

 

Please stop and think about what you are doing because a attitude of that sort can only do two things-1. Blind you to the truth and 2. put you on the road to self-destruction. Just be careful

[ghost69]

date more. don't focus on one person. i wouldn't get with a girl with a ton of debt. screw that. too many other people on this planet.

[Sunshine311]

I would hesitate to say that you are just not ready for a relationship, or perhaps have not met the right guy. Because if you were, something like this would not stop you from being involved with someone. Thank goodness you had mommy and daddy to bail you out, but what if you hadn't? How would you feel if a great guy shunned you based on your past mistakes?

 

My advice - If you meet a guy and he's living careless and thinks there's nothing wrong with it, then OK; perhaps move on. However, if you meet a guy who's made some mistakes and is trying to get back on his feet (just like you), then as a previous poster said - help him. Not by giving him money, but by helping him set up a budget plan, and manage his finances. Show him support, and don't marry him until his got his name cleared up if that worries you.

 

When my husband and I first started dating, he had just gotten out of a very bad business partnership with one of his friends. He literally was starting over: mounds of debt, his credit ruined, no money. And what I suggested to you is exactly what I did for him. He got a great job, and I helped him manage his finances. We moved in together and I managed the money. It wasn't long before his account started growing and his debt started shrinking. By time we got married we're both financially comfortable and money is not a worry!!

 

Good luck!

[Sunshine311]

(and I make about twice to three times what the average university graduate makes)

 

(and have fun now that thousands a month aren't going to minimum payments).

 

 

 

Just curious....

 

What exactly is it that you do that you make thousands of dollars in disposable income? Only a couple of things come to mind that a 25 year old college graduate might do to make such an impressive income so quickly out of school.

[Jayar]

Just curious....

 

What exactly is it that you do that you make thousands of dollars in disposable income? Only a couple of things come to mind that a 25 year old college graduate might do to make such an impressive income so quickly out of school.

 

I'm a drug-dealing prostitute.

 

Thanks for the advice so far, I just want to clarify that it's a bit less about the DEBT and more about the attitude that comes with it. We live in a debt society, and while I learned from my mistakes that a couch is much easier paid for in cash and you never really need a new car if it requires you finance it, I find that way too many of the people I meet exist paycheck to paycheck, and think that it's okay to get stuff you don't have money for because, hey, you don't have to pay for it for a year! The problem is, no one thinks about the fact that it's no more likely the money will be there in a year...

 

In other words, I am not talking about a guy who's paying off school, even if he made some bad decisions it would just be so REFRESHING to hear a guy say "yeah I made mistakes I'll NEVER make again, but hey, I learned from them..." The problem is they don't say that! They say "I just bought a condo!" (even though everyone knows it's the peak of the worst buyer's market in history) and "I furnished it with stuff I don't have to pay for 'till 2010!" (even though I don't know where I will find an extra $10K by that time) or my all-time favourite: Me: "what do you do for fun?" Him: "I LOVE poker!"

 

P.S. I am not really a drug-dealing prostitute. I manage software/service projects for tech companies. I may have made bad financial decisions, but made some great career choices, that's all. You know, it's true when they say that having more money doesn't automatically guarantee financial security... It just means bigger problems if you get in trouble.

[servedcold]

What kind of debt is he in, Jayar? A reasonable mortgage is actually a very good kind of debt. Student loans are good in that they show the guy is willing to invest in his career, provided he's not a perpetual student. I'm currently 200K in debt due to mortgage, business loans that I am personally liable for, and some remaining student loans at favorable rates, but I consider it serviceable and a good investment that will pay off and has. A wealthy buddy of mine told me he didn't feel he had made it until he was $1 million in debt, and there's some truth to that. Leverage is a powerful tool for building wealth.

 

Huge car leases or notes, credit card debt, are generally bad, however lots of eventual fortunes have been financed with credit cards. The key is whether the debt is an investment that can grow or if it can only deplete. Assuming you are talking about bad debt, as you seem to be pretty financially aware, but just wanted to point out that not all debt is bad.

[Jayar]

I agree that a mortgage on a house bought at the RIGHT time can be okay. And school loans aren't the end of the world... It's that "I can afford it because I can make the minimum payment" attitude... Or the "do I want a Home Depot/Best Buy/Sears card? Automtically approved?! I sure do!" It's enough to make me scream. It's a waste of otherwise perfectly eligible men!

 

Oh, and if I was $1M in debt I would probably hang myself. I think every day would be misery. I know how I felt even being just under $100K in debt and that's part of the reason I will never allow myself to be there again. I'm comfortable with the idea of buying a place when the market is right (which isn't now!) but beyond that I'm literally petrified of it. I won't even go into a utilities contract.

[LBP]

Particularly the reaction of "I met this dude but I know he's in debt so I'll never see him again" seems... extreme. What's the point of that?

 

There's nothing written to suggest that getting with someone implies you'll marry them. That's like sitting on Baltic and imagining how you're gonna pay for Parkplace. Don't even go there. I suppose you're young and you want to keep an eye on your prospects... but consider another side of the coin, if you're going to play the prognostication game. Perhaps in a couple of years this fella will have mastered his debt and become a business tycoon? Then you'll be missing out. Unrealistic? Of course... but so is impressing marriage fantasies on dateable young men.

 

This fear seems to be tied into your general worries about independence in general. I've been on this board for just over a year now and while it would be inaccurate to say you've recounted tales of a dozen plus relationships it certainly seems like I've seen you document more tales than apply to the average bearette. No offense meant by this statement, but have you ever considered therapeutic address to what I can only diagnose as an apparent fear of commitment? These things often have a root that can only be understood through personal insight. Often, psychiatric assistance is required on this front if that trait is beyond your general scope.

 

As an aside, I'm going to be passing through Vancouver soon... Any tourist/visitor tips?

[rocio]

I'm a drug-dealing prostitute.

 

That's the only way to go.

 

No seriously, financial issues are the number one reason couples fight. As you know, debt can lead to depression, desperation, a breakdown of relationships, inability to enjoy life... and all sorts of other nasty stuff.

 

My husband and I have agreed (well, ok, I declared and he passively went along with it... lol) that we will not purchase anything on credit (other than a home, of course) until we have all our student debts paid off, own a home and don't have any other debts owing. It feels really, really good to be on the same page.

 

High debts would be a dealbreaker for me.

[Jayar]

As an aside, I'm going to be passing through Vancouver soon... Any tourist/visitor tips?

 

Oh tons! I could write a book! It really depends what you like to do. If you're outdoorsy there's stanley park, but if you're more cultured there are museums and art galleries. I think you should also try and get on a whale tour, especially if you are coming in August/September. Have fun!

[LBP]

Oh tons! I could write a book! It really depends what you like to do. If you're outdoorsy there's stanley park, but if you're more cultured there are museums and art galleries. I think you should also try and get on a whale tour, especially if you are coming in August/September. Have fun!

 

Any places to just camp out for a couple of evenings? Paying for hotels are what I want to avoid.

[Jayar]

Any places to just camp out for a couple of evenings? Paying for hotels are what I want to avoid.

 

Try this if you like: link removed

 

Here's an article on it: link removed

 

As an alternative to a hotel, Hostelling International is often much cheaper than a hotel, and they have a convenient downtown location.

 

As always, do your research and be safe!

[sophie274]

Well I understand that you want a man with the same priorities and opinions regarding finances as you ... but to be fair you said the main reason you were out of debt was because of your parents bailing you out. So I think you might have to relax your standards. Like you said, one can be responsible but still have debts from school, etc ... and sometimes there might be very few options other than to buy on credit.

 

I also remember you saying in other threads that you expected men to pay for your dates. A pretty high standard for someone who is 25 but whom you do want to be in debt either.

 

As long as you're fine with the fact that you'll be crossing a lot of potential men off your list though (and probably many of the ones your age), then your approach seems fine, though. Also seems like a lot of the men you might be netting aren't going to be the ones who are financially responsible, but who had parents pay for college, or bail them out. Nothing wrong with that - my parents are paying 45 000/year for me to go to college! - but their financial status might not reflect on their personal responsibility.

[Batya33]

I agree with Sophie274 and think it requires some more thought so that you don't write someone off just because he has debt- look more closely at why, what his financial values are, spending/saving habits, etc. And of course there is always a pre-nup. There's such a huge range of debt and financial "personalities" that to have a black/white approach doesn't make much sense.

[bambina maxima]

He's not in the same place as you financially. It doesn't matter how you got to where you are, as of now you ARE financially stable/smart. This guy hasn't made it there yet. Does he seem concerned about it?

 

For me, a guy has gotta have some semblence of financial sense if we're gonna get serious. That doesn't mean he can't have debt - there's good debt and bad debt - but loads of credit card debt? 15 different credit cards? If the guy you're dating seems flippant about money, I would start trotting in the other direction.

 

So your parents bailed you out in your time of need...okay, your problem is solved. His problem isn't. Shrug. If fiscal responsiblity is something you value, then by all means, start crossing people off the list. Dont' feel bad if it's a dealbreaker.

[afonselaca]

My cousin's fiance refused to marry until he paid his debt off completely. Everyone stood around and just scratched their heads in dismay. I think I understand but only to a point.

 

I understand her not wanting to deal with his previous debt. I don't understand why she would consider someone who obviously held to a different money style in the first place.

 

As for me, I'm really cheap. My SO is, hate to say it, cheaper than I am. no joke! But I wouldn't have it any other way. I wouldn't be able to stand back and watch someone rack up debt on things I consider unnecessary. I am much more comfortable knowing that we are aligned on the desire to save, how to spend, etc. To me, money styles must match.

[SupaflyTNT]

I just graduated medical school and I'm almost 200k in debt from student loans. I would find it incredibly strange for a woman to refuse to date me because of that. Though I understand that we might be talking about a different sort of debt being the problem here.

[Maya_A]

I just want to clarify that it's a bit less about the DEBT and more about the attitude that comes with it.

^^^^

If that is the case, then your dilemma is solved in a sense, really... You can date people who share similar money management attitudes as you do (as you further described what they are) whether they actually carry a debt or not... If they do carry one, they will work their way out with the right mind set.

 

After your debt was cleared you seem to be living by a completely different money value & management system... This can be true for others also, even as they are still in the process clearing theirs...

 

If the new guy (or any guy) you met has a money management attitude similar to yours but is still paying down debt as he had no one to help him clear it outright, he might be worth dating again & getting to know better. If he has the attitude of the many you meet & describe as not suited to you in that way, then you can move on...

[watergirl]

Your problem is that you're young, you forgot where you came from (meaning what it was like to be in a bad situation) and you got an easy way out. Still you think you are in a position to be judgemental of someone else based on their financial situation? You have an unfounded, holier-than-thou attitude and it would surprise me if you found someone you view as "worthy". If they can pay their bills comfortably, what do you care what kind of debt they have? It's when they are in financial trouble that you should worry. Again, if he's paying his bills comfortably, that means he still has money to do things with you, like go out to dinner or to a movie or away for the weekend. The best thing for you to do would be to date whomever you choose and not worry so much about their financial picture unless it begins to get serious enough where you are about to marry or commit long-term and his finances directly affect you. Stop being such a hypocrite; allthough you cannot tell someone how to get out of debt (after all, you didn't dig yourself out), you can still be supportive of them if they, in fact, are in trouble.

 

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Apply that to your own history. Then judge someone for theirs.