One more reason to like Cali

[annie24]

i was reading a column by dan savage, a sex advice columnist who happens to be gay. he comments that the christian right gets all up in arms about marriage being between one man and one woman, etc...... but did any of you notice how silent the right is being on the whole scandal with the LDS church with the polygamy, teenage wives, mothers, etc..... where is the 'marriage is between one man and one woman' crowd there? why aren't they screaming from the rooftops that what members of this church are doing is wrong?

 

the silence is interesting.

[Krystal_Ivy]

i was reading a column by dan savage, a sex advice columnist who happens to be gay. he comments that the christian right gets all up in arms about marriage being between one man and one woman, etc...... but did any of you notice how silent the right is being on the whole scandal with the LDS church with the polygamy, teenage wives, mothers, etc..... where is the 'marriage is between one man and one woman' crowd there? why aren't they screaming from the rooftops that what members of this church are doing is wrong?

 

the silence is interesting.

I agree. that Morman ploygamy stuff really disturbes me. As does gay marriage. Their both not right in my opinion. And I know alot of non-christians who are upset and disgusted by both, so I don't think it's right to put it all on the christians.

[annie24]

I agree. that Morman ploygamy stuff really disturbes me. As does gay marriage. Their both not right in my opinion. And I know alot of non-christians who are upset and disgusted by both, so I don't think it's right to put it all on the christians.

 

i think he's pointing out, rightfully so, that whenever there's a gay marriage thing in the news, there are always major christian figures denouncing it..... but with the LDS church scandal..... nothing. i sure haven't seen any evangelicals on tv dencouncing the polygamy or the teenage marriages and statutory rape!!! it just seems like it's mainstream media and lawyers that are fighting it, so why aren't all the christians up in arms too, just like they are with the gay marriage?

[annie24]

part of the article....

[Dako]

Selective outrage. I suppose two people wanting to be joined together for life is worse than rape?

 

Reminds me of their silence about the paedophile priests.

[Krystal_Ivy]

but christians and mormans are two compleatly different things. evangelical christians (protestant christians) do NOT agree with anything the mormans do. especially polygamy. They've addressed their disagreement with that issue a LONG time ago. The gay marriage is current so that's why you're hearing opinions on that now.

[CarnelianButterfly]

but christians and mormans are two compleatly different things. evangelical christians (protestant christians) do NOT agree with anything the mormans do. especially polygamy. They've addressed their disagreement with that issue a LONG time ago. The gay marriage is current so that's why you're hearing opinions on that now.

 

Mormons are Christian, they just happen to be a different sect from Evangelical Christians. The Mormon Church is the short name for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians don't agree on a lot of things either, but they are all Christians.

[Krystal_Ivy]

Mormons are Christian, they just happen to be a different sect from Evangelical Christians. The Mormon Church is the short name for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians don't agree on a lot of things either, but they are all Christians.

mormans are NOT christian. I should know, I used t be one. that's how they make themselves out to be until you're part of the religion.

[annie24]

They've addressed their disagreement with that issue a LONG time ago. The gay marriage is current so that's why you're hearing opinions on that now.

 

but the LDS church bust and the pedophile priests are also current issues too, not just gay marriage. i would still get riled up about something if i thought it was wrong and evil. don't you think that priests who are abusing their postion of trust and power and sexually molesting young boys.... don't you think that is way worse a sin than two adult men, meeting, falling in love, and choosing to live the rest of their lives together?

[Krystal_Ivy]

but the LDS church bust and the pedophile priests are also current issues too, not just gay marriage. i would still get riled up about something if i thought it was wrong and evil. don't you think that priests who are abusing their postion of trust and power and sexually molesting young boys.... don't you think that is way worse a sin than two adult men, meeting, falling in love, and choosing to live the rest of their lives together?

I think their both horrible. The homosexuals are tainting marriage and everything it was created to be, along with confusing/damaging children that are brought up in those evironments. And the priests doing that stuff is a horrible evil thing that is VERY disturbing and hurting to that child. Worse or not. they are both wrong in my opinion.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Your opinion doesn't give you the right to deny people the choice to marry.

[annie24]

I think their both horrible. The homosexuals are tainting marriage and everything it was created to be,

 

so the counter-argument to this is .... what about people like britney spears who get drunk and go to vegas and get married in a quicky chapel and divorce 55 hours later? isn't that ruining the sanctity of marriage? i know lots of people who take marriage that lightly, most of them heterosexual! just think of how many divorced people are out there - divorce rate is near 50%, clearly, they are all taining marriage themselves. they aren't taking it seriously at all.

 

but a homosexual couple - who love each other, have a life together, mortgage, kids, etc for decades, how would they be tainting the institution or marriage?

[CarnelianButterfly]

 

but a homosexual couple - who love each other, have a life together, mortgage, kids, etc for decades, how would they be tainting the institution or marriage?

 

I think they'd bring a new life to it. I think heterosexual people take a lot for granted.

[Krystal_Ivy]

The whole idea is that marriage was created to be between MAN and WOMAN. Adam & Eve. we were also created to procreate in marriage, is that possible between man and man? or woman and woman? and our bodies were made to make love to the opposite sex as well. It is taking all of that away from the children of those same sex parents who will raise them to think thats normal and then they are likely to pass it on and where would our world be then? I agree. alot of people don't take marriage seriously and that's sad. But it doesn't mean it's ok to switch teams because of it. It's not the combintion of make and female thats the problem. it's the indiviguals themselves that are the problem.

[Iris-PJ]

I see it this way ...

 

sexuality is natural... as in we are all sexual creatures... some of it has to do with procreation but a good portion is recreation.

 

since we are born we are socialized "trained" to be heterosexual, from pink for girls to blue for boys, dolls for girls and cars for boys, etc., now many homosexual people I have known say they have felt "different" since they were young (even as elementary school children). Now this got me thinking, despite all the socializing to be STRAIGHT, they still are homosexual, then this is NATURAL too.

 

sexuality is fluid. I identify myself as "Currently Straight". And it's good to know that I can marry whomever I choose (if I choose to marry in the first place).

 

in regards to same sex couples tarnishing marriage and being a "negative" and "confusing" image on children ... I say we should stop sexualizing children so young, let kids be kids, once they reach puberty or when they start asking questions about sex, marriage and love, then they can have "the talk" with their parents who can impose whatever beliefs they have. I think children should just be left alone to play and learn.

 

Separation of church and state!!! These marriages are not asking YOUR RELIGION or CHURCH as a whole to morally accept and perfom the rite of marriage. They are simply granting marriage licenses and leaving to each congregation the right to refuse service to anyone. That sounds fair to me.

 

 

Live and let love.

 

-PJ

[Krystal_Ivy]

I disagree. how are we trained to be heterosexual? just because girls get barbies and wear pink when they're little doesn't mean they are forced to like men. It is natural, that's why they do it. because it's normal. if we were just supposed to be with whatever, then why can't we all produce children together? why is it just male and female? religious or not, it's common sense. the bodies were made for male/female interaction. Medically male intercourse can be VERY damaging! if it were normal, we'd have no population today. I believe those that have decided to become homosexual did it by choice or they were molested possibly when they were young. And those who weren't, I believe THINK they were born gay and felt "different" as children were in fact born with a phsychological disorder, just as many stright people are. There is nothing natural about it. And children are affected by gay households too young to have an objective opinion at puberty. They are mocked, ridiculed and confused all through school/young adult hood, for not being able to know what it is to have a mother and father or grow up in a healthy household.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Having a mother and a father in no way makes a household healthy.

[eurocar]

In both existential and evolutionary senses, homosexuality is at its very core a naturally-occurring form of population control. As approximately 10% of the population is homosexual, with perhaps 1/4 of that actively gay and not pursuing normative procreation, it does help balance things out. In addition, other diseases, such as HIV/AIDS, cancer, heart disease, and basically all other maladies can be viewed in such a way, though with more individually impactful effects.

 

In fact, homosexuality occurs in other species and is fairly common. Quite frankly, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of much else besides your religion (your definition of "morality"), in the context of this debate.

[Krystal_Ivy]

In both existential and evolutionary senses, homosexuality is at its very core a naturally-occurring form of population control. As approximately 10% of the population is homosexual, with perhaps 1/4 of that actively gay and not pursuing normative procreation, it does help balance things out. In addition, other diseases, such as HIV/AIDS, cancer, heart disease, and basically all other maladies can be viewed in such a way, though with more individually impactful effects.

 

In fact, homosexuality occurs in other species and is fairly common. Quite frankly, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of much else besides your religion (your definition of "morality"), in the context of this debate.

really? what religion am I? I am not speaking on religion, I'm speaking on common sense. I have a grasp on reality,nature and coomon knowledge, and not my definition of morality but morality in defintion. You are the one who sounds ignorant to me. homosexuality doesn't occur in other species. Animals will mate with anything and everything. My dog will hump my stuffed bear. is that natural too?? or maybe he's just gay if it's a boy bear...

[Iris-PJ]

Hi Krystal_Ivy

 

I respect the fact that you are expressing your opinion, especially since it's a contrasting view to what many people are saying here. I know it's not easy.

 

 

But in regards to your post above, I feel differently. I agree marriage is a partnership that creates a household with children, but now in days marriage does not solely exist to make children. And if gay parents have children, then it is their right to raise and educate their children how they see fit. The reactions of other's children's intolerance says more about those children's households than about the child with gay parents. Children are only confused by lack of attention and communication from their parents, not because they are gay or straight. And a healthy household is a house of love, understanding and respect. (this can be extended family as well, many people are raised by grandmas, aunts, etc.) Your argument places the blame on the "victim" for being raised by gay parents, when what needs to be addressed is the intolerance of the children doing the taunting. Any form of hate is not acceptable.

 

Even if many people choose to be gay, there is nothing wrong with that and being a well adjusted human being does not rely entirely on ones sexuality.

 

I think when I have children, I will give them options when I have the "talk" with them because humanity is far more complicated and diverse than labels allow.

 

 

-PJ

 

p.s. interesting insight Eurocar, I am referring to "naturally-occurring population control", I will have to borrow that some time.

[greywolf]

And children are affected by gay households too young to have an objective opinion at puberty. They are mocked, ridiculed and confused all through school/young adult hood, for not being able to know what it is to have a mother and father or grow up in a healthy household.

 

You know what annoys me the most? That not so long ago interracial marriages were considered abnormal as well. They said that children that grew up in interracial households would have psychological problems, that they would be mocked, ridiculed, and confused.... sound familiar?

 

really? what religion am I? I am not speaking on religion, I'm speaking on common sense. I have a grasp on reality,nature and coomon knowledge, and not my definition of morality but morality in defintion. You are the one who sounds ignorant to me. homosexuality doesn't occur in other species. Animals will mate with anything and everything. My dog will hump my stuffed bear. is that natural too?? or maybe he's just gay if it's a boy bear...

 

I disagree with you on this. Did you ever hear the story of the gay penguins?

 

link removed

 

And yes, I know that some people are not ok with same-sex marriage, but I don't believe it is the governments job to 'protect' the sanctity of marriage. Why is the government involving itself in religious things?

 

Medically male intercourse can be VERY damaging!

 

Interesting... perhaps all the men and women that love anal sex were molested as well according to your logic. Yeah, that must be it....

 

if we were just supposed to be with whatever, then why can't we all produce children together?

 

If sex was only for producing children then we'd only have sex when we were fertile.

 

religious or not, it's common sense. the bodies were made for male/female interaction.

 

This may be true but if men and women were so perfect for each other then I don't think I'd hear women complaining so much about how their husbands don't please them in bed, and how they can't have vaginal orgasms. And if this were specifically true, there wouldn't be such thing as anal orgasms.

 

So if you are one of those lucky women that never has a problem with vaginal orgasms I can understand why you think that. But other women don't have it so easy. You'd think it wouldn't be so hard since their bodies are made specifically for men. Or so you say....

[flyingdodo]

I agree marriage is a partnership that creates a household with children, but now in days marriage does not solely exist to make children. And if gay parents have children, then it is their right to raise and educate their children how they see fit. The reactions of other's children's intolerance says more about those children's households than about the child with gay parents. Children are only confused by lack of attention and communication from their parents, not because they are gay or straight. And a healthy household is a house of love, understanding and respect. (this can be extended family as well, many people are raised by grandmas, aunts, etc.) Your argument places the blame on the "victim" for being raised by gay parents, when what needs to be addressed is the intolerance of the children doing the taunting. Any form of hate is not acceptable.

 

Well said Iris-PJ

[flyingdodo]

You know what annoys me the most? That not so long ago interracial marriages were considered abnormal as well. They said that children that grew up in interracial households would have psychological problems, that they would be mocked, ridiculed, and confused.... sound familiar?

 

 

Also well said Wolfie!

[Krystal_Ivy]

I don't hate gays, I have had gay friends my whole life. I just don't support/agree with their lifestyle. Like I said, I feel for them because they do have a phsycological issue, But again, more reasons it's a danger to society.....

 

Further weaken the family, the first and best defense against an ever-encroaching government.

 

 

Encourage children to experiment with homosexuality. This will put more kids at risk for HIV, hepatitis A, B and C, “gay bowel syndrome,” human papillomavirus (HPV), syphilis, gonorrhea and other sexually transmitted diseases.

 

 

Homosexual households are also more prone to domestic violence. For example: “The incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population,” according to D. Island and P. Letellier in Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them (New York: Haworth Press, 1991).

 

A study in the Journal of Social Service Research reported that “slightly more than half of the [lesbians surveyed] reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner.” (G. Lie and S. Gentlewarrior, “Intimate Violence in Lesbian Relationships: Discussion of Survey Findings and Practice Implications,” No. 15, 1991.) More cites can be found in Tim Dailey, The Negative Health Effects of Homosexuality, Insight paper, Family Research Council, 2001.

 

 

 

Put more children at risk as adoption agencies abandon the crrent practice of favoring married households and begin placing more children in motherless or fatherless households.

 

 

Encourage more people to remain trapped in homosexuality rather than seek to re-channel their desires toward normal sexuality.

 

 

Pit the law and our government against the beliefs of tens of millions of people who believe homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

Create grounds for further attacks on the freedoms of speech, religion and association.

[kuiks8]

I grew up like you Ivy...believing that by saying I don't hate gay people i just don't agree with gay acts that i was being loving...As i have matured, as i have begun to see the world and to open my mind i realize that this is such a cop out. I am sure your gay friends feel very welcome and comfortable around you, praying for them to become "normal" sexually. Friends don't put conditions on their friends and how the act.

 

Your stats were probably created by small minded christians and the like who are too scared to open their mind and accept people where they are at.

 

Your posts make me angry...don't shove what you think is normal down everyone's throat because for the tens of millions of people that are against homosexuality there are hundreds of millions of people who choose to accept people where they are at and for who they are NO MATTER WHAT.

 

Psychological issues you say? Bigotry is a psychological issue...perhaps you should get your issue checked out before you start trying to fix anyone else's.

 

You want to get biblical Jesus came for the masses and his biggest teachings were about not judging and accepting people where they are at.

 

Growing up in those strict christian homes I know all about the lines drawn...no sex before marriage, no drinking, no drugs=ticket straight to heaven...but yet so many of those christians who sit in judgment of homosexuals are having sex outside of marriage (anal sex at that-oh no!) and drinking and judging...

 

Don't label homosexuals as having a problem...or being unnatural...why not dig deep and be a person of substance who chooses to see people, all people as equals and as humans free to make their own choices and decisions.

 

"And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye."

Luke 6:41-42 NKJV