She's against a prenup, I won't marry without one, are we doomed?

[DN]

RayKay,

 

As I said before, youve just told me all the reasons that for YOU, co-habiting is the ultimate commitment. Im not arguing with that, because as you have already explained, within your family it is the norm, and indeed for quite a substancial portion of society also.

 

I wont make all my points twice, because Im sure once was enough for anyone reading! but I still stand by my comments and unfortunately, no amount of anything anyone says will sway me on this: I STILL believe, despite any argument to the contrary, that marriage is special.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you as such - it is your opinion and is as valid as anyone's. If it is special to you - it just is. But if it is meaningless to someone else, or even a liability, then that is also valid.

[Hope_Springs_Eternal]

I was not attempting (or even thinking) of swaying your view. I was merely stating that that experience (for you) is not the same for everyone, or that everyone (myself included) views marriage as being required to be emotionally committed to someone. Or sees everyone who marries as being emotionally committed.

 

I am not in any way against marriage. My partner and I may, or may not, marry one day. It's not the cohabitating that is the "ultimate commitment". It was my choosing to be emotionally committed that was the "ultimate commitment". This is a choice that I just personally believe can be made independent of whether you are married or not.

 

yes, I understood all you were saying.

 

As the OP was re: pre nups, I was correlating the emotions involved at the wedding vs the divorce.

 

Its entirely irrelevent to me who is married or co-habiting. Its only important to me what I do. Im going to bow out now because I feel I made my points as elequently as I could and can do no better.

[Hope_Springs_Eternal]

I don't think anyone is arguing with you as such - it is your opinion and is as valid as anyone's. If it is special to you - it just is. But if it is meaningless to someone else, or even a liability, then that is also valid.

 

 

yes, quite so

[Belle]

I have seen both sides of the argument. When I was younger, and in love, I would have been insulted by the idea of a prenup. Now that I have the fairy tale ideas out of my head, I recognize how practical it is for both parties.

 

Whereas I don't really agree with tux's view of the woman's role of child rearing as equivalent to htat of a paid nanny/maid/cook, I think there is a middle ground. There is a lot of lost value in our society because more women work now and cannot adequately care for the children. I don't mean to insult working mothers, but I think if children had the choice they'd choose a stay at home mother.

 

Regardless, like man posters before have said, people can change and when they separate, it often can get vindictive and you have to protect your assets. Male and female. Personally, I would never get married again without a prenup. Since I don't anticipate marrying a stay at home father, I wouldn't be as generous as if I were a man about to provide for my future wife and possible kids. I have been divorced. And my ex husband threatened to sue for alimony, even when I didn't have the assets I do now.

 

I think that often, the person who is inflexible abuot discussing a prenup has certain assumptions and illusions about it. They assume that you can't negotiate different scenarios. That it's all about making sure you never touch a dime. You can do that too, but it's more about making sure that the person you fell in love with doesn't turn into a greedy or vindictive person out to take you for what you've got. I think everyone's seen that enough in the real world to know that it happens every day.

 

The illusion is that a prenup would alter the course of love. It doesn't. There's no free ride and there shouldn't be. If you subconsciously believe you are entitled to as much of what your spouse earned as you can, à la Heather Mills, then you fall into the free ride category and this is what men and women should protect against. Ivana wasn't stupid when she had her ridiculously younger husband sign a prenup. If real love is at play, you negotiate, plan and dont' feel entitled. You just want a real relationship that works. If you don't want to negotiate, I'd suspect your motives.

[Miss Firecracker]

I agree about Ivana. And I wonder if she ever feels funny with this man in bed.

 

One of these things is not like the other. Which one is different, do you know? LOL

 

image removed

 

Does anyone know how old he is? She is about 60.

[just M.E.]

She has got to have enough money for a mirror, right?

[Mun]

She can afford a mirror but what good is it when most of the time her eyes are rolled back in her head? heh