Clingers and Avoiders

[EyesOnThePrize]

This is a paraphrase of link removed which I've found valuable in dealing with my ex-wife. Basically, it posits that people are either clingers or avoiders, although people can be clingy in one aspect, and avoiding in another. For instance, my ex-wife is an avoider, and I am a clinger in terms of personal space. I constantly violated her boundaries and made her feel uncomfortable because I needed to suck all the love out of her sometimes to satisfy my own need (more on this in a second). However, in terms of overall relationships, she is a clinger and I am an avoider. After the divorce, I think her jumping into another relationship was because of her fear of being alone, so she clung tight to the first solace that was offered. I was alone, relationship wise for a lot of years, so I'm avoiding any temptation to jump into a new relationship.

 

So, about those needs. As a clinger, and as a result of my upbringing, lets say I need 1,000 Love Units per day (its just a term, there's no way to measure it). However, my ex-wife might have only produced 100 Love Units per day because of her background. However, every day I was trying to get 1,000 Love Units from her, and it was draining her. She was doing her best, and it wasn't enough to satisfy my needs. At the same time, I never understood why she wasn't producing enough Love Units and would get frustrated when she would retreat. What the author advises is that Clingers learn to get their Love Units from other sources. Whether its friends, or pets, or family or even random acts of kindness, his belief is that there are ways to fill the love tank that do not involve the partner/spouse. What he found (he is a Clinger, his wife an avoider) was that after he stopped applying pressure, she was able to produce more Love Units. Now, because of her background, she will probably never be able to produce all of his Love Units. In my example, lets say respecting her boundaries more allowed her to feel more comfortable and she could produce 250 Love Units per day. That still means I have to find another source for that 750 Love Unit deficit. However, I think that looking for 750 is better than looking for 900, and since my ex-wife produced the highest quality Love Units for me, getting 250 instead of 100 would be a huge bonus.

 

Unfortunately, I read this article too late to stop the divorce. Part of the whole goal of NC from my standpoint is to help us create healthy boundaries. One of the problems that I anticipate with her and her new bf is that he shows a lot of signs of being a clinger, and I think that he will run into the same issues that I did. I think it was different in their courtship phase, because he was either a voice on the phone, or a chat partner on the internet, or someone she saw in very small doses at conventions, so he never overloaded her. Now that they will be interacting on a daily basis, I think that is very likely to change. If she and I ever do reconcile, I think a key part will be me respecting her boundaries. I'm happy to have my housemate and my pets and my online and real life friends, because I am learning to get my Love Units from all of them and to take pressure off of her. The author suggests that Clingers often seek Avoiders, and that means that even if we don't reconcile, I might deal with another avoider, so learning to have these other sources of Love Units is likely to serve me well in any case.

 

I believe that most dumpers are Avoiders, and most dumpees are Clingers. Certainly I believe a lot of us who post here, especially here in the "Getting Back Together" section, got there because of excessive clinging, and our partners ran because they couldn't stand it any longer. I think the Clingers were doing their best, they just didn't understand this concept. I note that my ex-wife is a cat person, I am a dog person. When I think of it in terms of relative maintenance and affection, I think she needed less Love Units, so a lower maintenance, aloof animal more fits her personality. For me, the higher maintenance, more affectionate animal fits mine.

 

As usual, all of this is just my opinion, and that and $14.99 gets you the 1,500 text message pack at AT&T.

[2bOkay]

I must admit I was a clinger myself. When my ex-gf gave me some love units it was like mother's milk. I really adored her, I was always in need of affection like a puppy dog. How do I snap out of this state? I am so embarrassed.

[Litgirl01]

Why do most relationships seem to be this way...there is always one who loves/needs more and one who loves/needs less??? Why is this...are there relationships that are truly balanced? I have never quite experienced that! I was usually the one to love more in my serious relationships...until I met my ex!!

[EyesOnThePrize]

I must admit I was a clinger myself. When my ex-gf gave me some love units it was like mother's milk. I really adored her, I was always in need of affection like a puppy dog. How do I snap out of this state? I am so embarrassed.

 

He gives some suggestions in the article. The main thing is to learn to get Love Units from other sources. And the author believes that this is unfair to the Clinger, because this is one spot where the Clinger has to put in all of the effort. And, I think it can be worth it in the long run.

 

I did a Humane Society walk with my puppy last Sunday, and now I'm thinking I want to volunteer with them. All those puppies and kitties will give me plenty of Love Units and without me needing to buy them dinner or jewelry. lol. I think that's a win-win!

[EyesOnThePrize]

Why do most relationships seem to be this way...there is always one who loves/needs more and one who loves/needs less??? Why is this...are there relationships that are truly balanced? I have never quite experienced that! I was usually the one to love more in my serious relationships...until I met my ex!!

 

I think if I had this answer, I'd be a very rich man.

[sngrmom75]

WOW! This is exactly what my therapist and I were talking about earlier! I am a clinger and my husband runs away... All stemming from childhood issues. Very interesting... She said that we subconsciously choose people who continue the drama from our childhood. In our case (not to get into too much detail) my husbands parents divorce caused him to pull away from them (his mother pushed and pushed him to take her side) and in my case I felt abandoned when my dad left before I was born... I have never really given too much stock to all of this stuff, but it seems too obvious to be mere coincidence

[EyesOnThePrize]

WOW! This is exactly what my therapist and I were talking about earlier! I am a clinger and my husband runs away... All stemming from childhood issues. Very interesting... She said that we subconsciously choose people who continue the drama from our childhood. In our case (not to get into too much detail) my husbands parents divorce caused him to pull away from them (his mother pushed and pushed him to take her side) and in my case I felt abandoned when my dad left before I was born... I have never really given too much stock to all of this stuff, but it seems too obvious to be mere coincidence

 

That sounds like Imago therapy (from Harville Hendrix' work). I only know the basic concepts of it, and I think its that we look for someone like our childhood caretakers.

[Litgirl01]

Reminds me of Wedding Crashers....the stage 4 clinger...."I'll find youuuu!"

[EyesOnThePrize]

I just reread link removed and was again fascinated by it.

[Addicus]

I think I am very much an avoider...the ex was someone of a clinger..she said that she needed me to want her...I guess I avoided showing that!

[JadedStar]

Very interesting article, and I think much truth to it.

 

I wasn't an avoider per se, but i would fall more into that category than clinger and my ex husband was the clinger. He drained me many times.

[EyesOnThePrize]

Very interesting article, and I think much truth to it.

 

I wasn't an avoider per se, but i would fall more into that category than clinger and my ex husband was the clinger. He drained me many times.

 

Well, I think people move up and down the clinger and avoider scale, and if you're a "-10" avoider and he's a "+90" clinger, I think you're just as far apart as if you're a "-80" avoider and he's a "+20" clinger.

[sngrmom75]

That sounds like Imago therapy (from Harville Hendrix' work). I only know the basic concepts of it, and I think its that we look for someone like our childhood caretakers.

 

yep, she is an imago therapist.

[Artop]

You are right. If the clinger doesn't have any other source of love units (or he/she place the partner's love units above all others), he/she becomes more clingy. This is exactly what the avoider doesn't want. So they run and the chase is on!

 

We, the clingers must know when to back off and find other sources of love units. This is why being well balanced person is important going into any relationship. I am working on that now.

[EyesOnThePrize]

yep, she is an imago therapist.

 

I want to find an Imago therapist, I just haven't been able to locate one in Las Vegas.

[karvala]

Clingers and avoiders is certainly interesting, and undoubtedly there is a lot of truth in that and people tend to fall in the role of one or other in a given relationship. It is interesting, though, to add the push-pull dynamics as hinted at in the original article. The more the clinger clings on, the more the avoider runs away, and the harder clinger clings on and harder the avoider runs away. A downward spiral. Sometimes, though, through luck, design or an act of will, the avoider will give all the love that the clinger feels s/he needs, or else the clinger will give the avoider all the space that s/he needs. As a result, the recipient will feel empowered, be able to give more back to the other, and you have an upward spiral.

 

These dynamics, upward spiral of mutual giving, downward spiral of mutual taking, are common to very many relationships. What distinguishes the successful ones from the unsuccessful ones are two things: one is the ability to recognise a downward spiral and for both parties, and I really do mean both, to get off, give up the pain, and allow one of them to make an act of will that the other will willingly receive and restore the upward spiral. The other, more subtle, is to have a relatively low gradient on both spirals. A relationship characterised by excessive giving (of what the other one wants, be it love or space) on one or even both sides, is much more likely to fail because it will be inevitably followed by excessive taking. Excessive taking means that emotional resources run out too quickly, before either side has had a chance to put the brakes on and pull themselves out of the cycle.

 

I think of relationships in terms of a pendulum. Sometimes it swings towards the clinger, when s/he gets the love s/he requires (either by giving or taking). Sometimes it swings towards the avoider, when s/he gets the space s/he requires (again either by giving or taking). That's fine and normal. Problems occur, though, when one side takes too much, or even when one side gives too much and doesn't look after his/her own interest. Then the pendulum swings too much in one direction, and breaks. After that, it cannot swing back again; it needs to be repaired, or a new pendulum found.

 

Don't take too much, don't give too much, and always, always, keep an eye on that pendulum and hope your partner does too. A successful relationship requires two people who both know the limits of their partner, and are able to never push them beyond it. No wonder so many relationships fail; it's a tall order, but I believe it's possible still.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

He gives some suggestions in the article. The main thing is to learn to get Love Units from other sources. And the author believes that this is unfair to the Clinger, because this is one spot where the Clinger has to put in all of the effort. And, I think it can be worth it in the long run.

 

I did a Humane Society walk with my puppy last Sunday, and now I'm thinking I want to volunteer with them. All those puppies and kitties will give me plenty of Love Units and without me needing to buy them dinner or jewelry. lol. I think that's a win-win!

 

You may not have to buy you puppy dinner...but that's because he will eat whatever is on your plate!!

 

I don't think that all relationships are made up of clingers and avoiders. There must be healthy relationships where there is a happy medium between clinging and avoiding.

[Litgirl01]

Sheesh! Relationships are hard work! Doesn't it ever just settle into a peaceful union???

[Belle]

Very interesting article. I'm an avoider, for the most part. I guess that's why I've had an inordinate number of clingers in my life. My poor cat has filed for emancipation several times, due to lack of attention. On the flip side, I need a lot of attention, which I get from friends and men. When I dated another avoider, he tended to be teh clingier party in private. I occasionally felt a little suffocated, but then when we were out together he became an avoider and I became slightly clingy because I wasn't getting the mega attention from before. It's a double edged sword.

 

I was the happy, non crying baby. But I still have abandonment issues. If I fear that someone's going to walk out on me, I panic but I run the other way. Doesn't make sense.

[EyesOnThePrize]

Sheesh! Relationships are hard work! Doesn't it ever just settle into a peaceful union???

 

I think that's Vintage Love (look for the Map of Relationships on the same site). Al says only 4% of couples get there.

[Litgirl01]

I think that's Vintage Love (look for the Map of Relationships on the same site). Al says only 4% of couples get there.

 

That's encouraging! NOT!! All of the sudden being alone is sounding pretty darn good! LOL

[rapunzel]

Great advice, it's just difficult to remember to be vigilant when you're in the throes of love and oxytocin and other hormones are in high gear.....and you're sliding into clinger type behavior. But excellent thoughts here. A great book that illustrates this dynamic perfectly is called "The Passion Trap: Where is your Relationship going?" by Dean C. Delis, PhD.

 

How I wish I had read that book and also have been more vigilant in keeping the power balance in check but alas, it is now too late. ](*,)

[zeevegal]

LOL this is funny but so true and makes so much sense. I guess I am a clinger (which really means I am an avoider some how. I am just trying to figure out what I am avoiding. I think it might be myself !

[sngrmom75]

I want to find an Imago therapist, I just haven't been able to locate one in Las Vegas.

link removed should help you find someone

[EyesOnThePrize]

link removed should help you find someone

 

Yeah, but I still have to travel to LA. There aren't any registered in LV.