majord23

dikia, I agree. My advice is only on the assumption that what spatz thought he saw is a reality.

I just CAN NOT help but think to the times i have hear Beec, Majord and others say that finding out there is someone new doesn't change the way you should play the game. My first quote still stands true spatz: And at the moment it is even more relevant. I would say that your emotions are very much an impossible obstacle to overcome in order to play the game. You are not capable of not letting your emotions rule your actions....so don't let her close enough to see what your actions might be. And yes, finding out they have someone new shouldn't change the way you play the game in essense. If they are aware that you know about their new partner however, it does change. Having said that, your goals remain the same...you have to keep her guessing, you have to have get upperhand and at the moment there is only one way to do it.....

You had been playing it perfectly spatz, I stand by my statement. The fact that can't be changed is that you DID see her the other day and she saw you. Things have changed whether you wanted them to or not. How you act now will influence how your ex perceives you in the future. Previously, your game was perfect….even though she had a BF, you were influencing her behaviour….but now she knows that you have seen her with her BF. The same game doesn't apply. And that is what no contact is about. Yes, it is hard….but the results are what you have stated above spatz. The other option, which may seem easier....ultimately ends in more pain. If my Aunt had balls, she would be my Uncle. 'What ifs' are out of your control spatz. Again, she realises that because you know about her BF…she has made herself far less available. If she wants to change the situation then SHE has to do it. Do think that if she was having second thoughts, that if she thinks that you are for her and not her BF….that she would NOT take any action? She will act on it, even if you have cut off contact. In fact, she will be more likely to act on it if you *have* cut off contact. Nothing wrong with that spatz, nothing wrong with that at all.

Spatz, It is *impossible* to stay her friend and move on. The fact is that she has someone else, and as much as people may tell you otherwise…it does change the 'game' that you play. Sure, when an ex is single, 'acting' like a friend…allowing your ex to see you in that light, is a way of working your way back into their heart. If they have someone else though, it does nothing but cause you more heartache and periodically you will drop the act and let your ex know exactly how you feel…either out of anger or frustration. 'Acting' as a friend is a recipe for disaster…how long can you act for? What if she stays with this guy for months? Are you willing to keep yourself in the game, pretending to be happy and standing by her, waiting for her to change her mind….for months?? You will stagnate spatz, you will not progress at all and you could potentially feel just as hurt in 6 months as you do now. I have been in your situation too many times to count. I have also had close friends in the same situation. On *EVERY* occasion No Contact has been successful. Successful in that exes have either come back OR the 'dumpee' has gained some perspective, regathered some pride and realised that the ex wasn't the one for them. Determined is well on the way because of no contact. His ex may come back, or he may move on….at the end of the day he will be happy and *that* is the most important thing in the world…with or without his ex. No contact doesn't push your ex away, it makes them face the prospect of losing you forever. On the other hand, staying their friend gives them the best of both worlds: They are with someone else, you are still in their life and they suspect (know) that they could have you back if they wanted. You will end up resenting your ex, and losing respect for yourself. Staying in her life means that you need her…and she will know it. Breaking contact means that you don't need her….and she won't like it. Staying in her life opens you up to more pain spatz. Breaking contact will give her a shock, give her something to think about and most importantly it will put you in the road to recovery. I have broken up with girls before, that I *knew* I had to break up with….one girl (I was with for 2 months) said "Fine, your decision…bye". Now, I was 100% certain I didn't want to stay with her, but when she said that I had doubts….it almost made me change my mind….and that was someone I had no intention of going back to. Her reaction gave me second thoughts though. If she had stayed my friend as I suggested, I would have seen her as a bit of a push-over and I would not have respected her as much as I do now. It is surprising how just getting on with your life can bring about unexpected changes in exes behaviour. Your ex may wake up to herself, she may come back to you…but she may not. You have to stop focussing on what is best for 'you and her'. There is no 'you and her'…there is only *you* and you should take steps that help *you*….and no one else.

spatz, I'm pretty sure that you know it was her yesterday, so I think that you should work from there. You say that you don't know what to do or what action to take....in reality you only have a few choices mate: 1) Contact her or don't contact her You have decided to call her, so that is one decision out of the way. 2) Ask her if she has a new bf or don't ask her. If you ask, you will know for sure. If you don't ask....you prolong the uncertainty and you will end up asking her soon anyway. After the phonecall: 3)Cut off contact and move on or stay her friend. You've said that you couldn't be her friend, so that is a decision that is already made as well. It may seem over-simplified, but that is where you stand mate. Some things I said earlier regarding your phonecall still stand spatz. Ask everything you want to know and say everything that you want to say. Tell her what she has missed out on and say Goodbye. You have the advantage of preparing yourself before speaking to her. I was sitting in a pub with my ex, having a great night....thinking we were on the verge of getting back together, only to be told by her (out of the blue) that she was seeing someone else.....but missed me, wanted to kiss me etc. I know the devastation that you feel spatz, I truly do. I lost face that night in the pub...it threw me completely and I said all of the wrong things. It was only when I stole some pride back (a few weeks later), and told her what she had lost that I felt better, and she had doubts. This phonecall is your chance to keep your dignity, say your piece and make your ex confront (possibly for the first time) the prospect of having you out of her life forever. Don't give up hope, for sometimes hope is what keeps us sane and in your situation hope does still exists. Hope isn't something to rule your life by though....She may come back spatz, she may not. It's about YOU now mate. You have to do what is best for you without giving the effect on her a second thought. It may sound stupid, but after the initial shock of finding out about my ex seeing someone else...it made me feel better. To me, it was alot worse thinking that she would rather be *alone* than with me....now *that* was a blow to my self-esteem.

Then it's even more important that you don't call spatz....you have absolutely nothing gain. And despite you thinking things can't get worse, they can. Don't call.

Ok, the quote is taken out of context....but you get the idea G!! xox

spatz, Firstly I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about your situation mate....and what a horrible way to find out My advice would be not to call. determined is right on the money spatz: you have nothing to gain and you will regret it. You say that it was always part of the plan to call - maybe, but the plan has to change when the circumstances change. I'm not going to dwell on not calling though....I know you will because I would. Believe it or not spatz, there is a positive that can be taken from this: If she wasn't interested in you, if she was adamant that she didn't want to get back with you at some stage - the easiest way to do it would be to tell you that she had met someone else......so why didn't she? To prevent you from getting hurt? Never stopped her before. Because she wants to be friends? They all say that mate, it just means thay want you around in some capacity because of the security you provide. It's not like she didn't have the opportunity bro. She didn't tell you about him for a reason and it had nothing to do with friendship or your feelings. The Call spatz, if you call her, it shouldn't be wasted....you should make the most of the opportunity. The call you make should be straight to the point....and think of it as the last time you will ever speak to her (you *have* to approach it that way). You should ask *every* question you want answered, and say *everything* you want to say...otherwise you will find yourself wanting to call her back to ask something else (and that's a downward spiral). spatz, although you don't feel like it.....you have a lot of power at the moment mate. ALOT of power. You know about the new guy BUT she doesn't know you know. That is a bombshell that will turn her world upside down mate. Call her on it: be calm, tell her that you know about him and that you are disappointed in her because she didn't tell you. Tell her that you obviously expected her to respect you a bit more than that....but you're glad that you now know because it will finally allow you to forget about her and move on. End the call with a confident statement, as Beec has mentioned. I worked with a woman who's ex (whose heart she broke) said to her: "One day you'll realise what you've given up, and you'll come looking for me." Apparently she *did* go looking for him 8 months later....and he had moved on. That was 12 years ago....and she STILL remembers the words he used. Be that guy spatz....make that kind of impact. If you play this right spatz, her head will be spinning. In the blink of an eye, her facade will have come crashing around her ears. ....you know about the new guy, and you are out of her life. She will have gone from feeling extremely secure (with the new guy and you) to having her world fall apart.....and the best part is that she will never have seen it coming. This is the only opportunity you have to do this right mate, ONE shot....don't ***-foot around issues - call her on everything. Good Luck Spatz. Be strong.

It's progress determined. You'll find that you'll be extremely angry with the situation and indeed with her....at the same time though, you'll go through periods where you'll want her back more than ever. It *is* normal bro...you're getting perspective on things. The advantage is that when you are able to look at it objectively (as you are), you have *every* right to be angry with her....if you hadn't broken contact with her, you may never have given yourself the opportunity to do that. Sometimes, when couples get back together without ever having that 'space', resentment creeps in soon after the reconciliation. You won't have that problem bro....you have felt the anger, you know if you can deal with it if you reconcile and you can also rest easy in the knowledge that if your ex does come to her senses...you can make a balanced decision, rather than one based purely on emotion and hurt. A decision using your heart AND your head, not just the former. You're a legend mate

Hey determined....no need to apologise bro I know what you mean about being relieved mate....I would have felt exactly the same way. Facing that situation at any stage would be daunting....let alone when things are still raw. Does your ex know why you didn't go? Would have been great if she turned up expecting you to be there...only to face disappointment and no explanation. How you holding up determined?

Any news determined?

spatz, Hang in there mate. You are in a highly vulnerable position (emotionally) at the moment. She is in town, you feel as though you are pushed for time...and you are encountering reminders of her (parents etc.). I can understand how you may feel down at the moment.....don't despair yet bro, it is only early days and your actions should not reflect your emotions. Your decision to wait for her to contact is the the right one at the moment. As you are rushed for time, I would possibly wait until Wednesday/Thursday before *you* consider contacting *her*. A simple "Fingers still not working? ;-) " text would be a light-hearted approach you might consider. GeeCee: I have one piece of advice, and one only....Do not under *any* circumstances sleep with M (unless it is preceded by a proposal!). You slept with him last time....your situation, and his behaviour didn't change a bit. If you sleep with him again, it is going to stay the same again. This man means more to you than sex. Forego a night of meaniingless (and in the big picture it *IS* meaningless) sex, in order to take the first step in making yourself seem less available. Less available = more desirable. Don't tell him why you won't sleep with him....just tell him "because it's not right"...and let his imagination be his downfall. Trust me on this one thing GeeCee...if you don't sleep with him, you will notice a marked change in his attitude towards you, and it will be a good one.

^^^^8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)^^^^ Nice one lads

Precisely Beec, It's like revealing your big play to the opposition the night before the game. rich, You have to keep your cards close to your chest....don't tell her why you are acting differently....make her wonder!

She feels that you are available, because you are available. That is a fact rich. You are left with the dilemma that you now face....tell her to stop seeing you that way, or act so that she stops seeing you that way. If you can change the way she feels by *telling* her to change, then why not tell her to fall in love with you while you're at it (just lightening things up a bit) You can tell her that you feel as though you are being taken for granted, but you cannot tell her to *stop* taking you for granted....only a change in her perception of you will bring that about. At the end of the day, my point is this rich: Words without action are pointless. Words with action are effective. Giving up smoking rich...I have promised family and friends that I would give up smoking on numerous occasions...and failed. Their perception of me was someone who wasn't truly committed to it. 3 weeks ago, I told them again that I was quitting....their response? "Yeah, sure....we've heard that before". 3 weeks later and I haven't had a cigarette.....my friends now use me as a role model for other friends trying to quit. Actions vs Words rich....Actions win every time.

Rich, the above statements are not ones you should be saying to her....ironically, they are what you should be saying to yourself. She sees you as too available.....she doesn't have to work to 'get' your tools of seduction and positive traits. The question is: What are YOU going to do about it? Telling her isn't going to fix anything, it is just going to make it harder.....no matter *how* you present it (in a joking manner or not) it isn't going to affect the essense of what you are saying. If she sees you as too available, YOU are the only one that can change that. YOU have to take actions that make her appreciate you more. She cannot change her perception of you, unless you change the way you present yourself This is all about allowing her to see your fun side, giving her the opportunity to fall in love again with the guy she originally fell in love with. Don't analyse everything she says or does, don't confront her with it and avoid conversations about 'the relationship' like the plague. Be yourself, have fun, don't appear needy....and leave the rest up to her.

GeeCee, spatz. Truer posts have never been written. Love is *always* crap until you find the one that you want to be with forever....and even then, it's sometimes STILL crap! (Ummm....can i say crap?) GeeCee, I've been there and yes, It *is* stupid. Here is something I posted on this forum about 2 years ago: "We are all adults, yet we have all been reduced to playing emotional games with our exes and ourselves in order to win their love. We consult strangers on an internet forum for advice and our emotions swing from sublime to silly over the course of a day....all dependent on who? An ex, a text, an email, a phonecall....or even worse, the lack of them. I hate games, God I hate games. I hate the fact that we all can't just be honest with people and wear our hearts on our sleeves. I would have thought that honesty and caring were admirable qualities, but apparently these qualities have no place in the world of 'getting back together'. Calling someone to tell them that you were thinking of them used to be considered sweet........now it's the wrong thing to do. Heaven forbid we should attempt to speak from the heart, instead we have to speak from our arses....so we play games. And for what? To win the love of someone who has already broken our hearts. Shouldn't *our* love be something worth winning? Why is it *us* that must make an effort to show someone who doesn't want us, how much we care about *them*? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why waste time on someone who has already hurt us? If I had 100 baskets in front of me, knowing that 10 of the baskets contained snakes that would bite me....after being bitten by one of the snakes, would I put my hand back in the same basket? Or perhaps try one of the other 99? Makes sense in that analogy, it's logical....love aint. Dammit." ....just so you know I've been there hunny x

Hey spatz and dikaia, Cheers for the replies! spatz...na mate, no game to be played...I'm done. I have given up, in fact I have more than given up...I have let go completely. I don't miss her anymore, I don't love her anymore and most importantly I don't respect her anymore. Not trying to sound mean, but that is the honest way I feel about her. There *is* a part of me that would like to break her heart....so I guess I still have some feelings there, albeit bitter ones. I guess I am in a game to a degree. I can ignore her contact and see how much effort she is willing to make in order to get a response......actually,this could be fun: my own little psyche experiment

^*bump*^ Thought I'd ressurrect this sucker as I didn't want to start a new thread. It appears that my ex's 'comfort zone' is exactly 7 weeks lol. When I stopped contacting her in November....and she subsequently contacted me in December, I counted back and found it was exactly 7 weeks (to the day) without contact. I thought it was inconsequential at the time.....until.... I received an email from her a few days ago (a 'Forwarded' email....which she never usually sends...and sent only to me)...and out of interest, today I counted back to our last contact......7 weeks to the day between contact. Reasons? 1) Maybe it's just coincidence 2) Maybe her thoughts of me are cyclic 3) Maybe her BF goes on a business trip every 7 weeks OR 4) Maybe she's a psycho b&*^h, who loves no one but herself, has bad breath, no dress sense, thin lips and a phobia surrounding clowns. Hmmm......I'm not really certain, but I think it's number 4.

Depends on your motivation for doing it determined. If you are doing it in order to restore your own peace of mind, then it's defintely a good thing. If you are doing it to ilicit a response, then maybe not so.....although sometimes the 2 go hand-in-hand: When I employed that tactic (for my own sanity)....it affected my ex's behaviour - she telephoned me after 10 months of 'email only' contact. So, it is a change of tactic and perhaps a change of attitude from you (I'm sensing) which I feel is a good thing.

determined, In an ideal world, you could walk up to him, shake his hand and take the high road....in an ideal world. In reality, it is a HUGE ask...it shouldn't even be contemplated unless you're 100% positive you can deal with it. The problem is that what people feel they *should* do and what people are actually *capable* of doing are often two completely different things. Trouble arises when and individual attempts something that they aren't emotionally ready for….and end up in a worse position (either emotionally or in reality) My point? You know what you can handle mate…..so do whatever you think is best. If you can look him in the eye, shake his hand and give the appearance of being completely unaffected all night….then by all means do it. If you have doubts though bro, give them a wide berth, say hello and get on with your night….there isn't any shame in that determined. I faced the prospect of having to meet my ex and her bf a few weeks ago (I think I posted it)…and it was daunting mate….and that's over a year later. Ex's new partners are ex's new partners….whether it is 1 month or 5 years down the track. If you shared strong feelings with someone, it will always be awkward to see them with someone else. I think it's a moot point anyway. I just can't see her bringing him to the party….. 1) It would be *extremely* disrespectful to you and 2) I don't think she would want you to meet him a) because he is a loser and b) because she told you that she loved you….when she was seeing him (in effect, emotionally cheating on him with you). If he is around this weekend, she may not come at all mate – that's the reality of it. I will say it again, if she does turn up at the party with him, without at least letting you know that she is bringing him, I would wash my hands of her mate. That would be the action of someone so completely self-absorbed and inconsiderate that they wouldn't be worth your time…..but I don't think it'll happen.

determined, Again, let her know that you will be at the party....she then has the choice to make - she knows where to find you. If she doesn't want to go, she won't go....regardless of whether you ask her to or not. Semi-asking is always an option "Yep, I'll be there....not sure who else is going, you?" It maintains your aloofness and keeps you from putting yourself in a vulnerable position. If she turns up with her new BF (without informing you beforehand that she intends you), then I would walk away from the situation all together....not just the party, the whole drama. That would be the most insensitive, low thing in the world to do. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that you know she *won't* do that bro....so rest easy on that front. Sorry this is fairly short....off to work!! Speak soon mate

Determined, I would definitely tell her that you'll be at the party, but I would stop short of asking her to meet up. I think that she'll turn up at the party regardless, the only variable being who possesses the security ball. You have given her the impression of someone who is more emotionally removed from her than you actually are, and you now have the opportunity to capitalise. At the party, be friendly to her, be flirtatious, be your happy-go-lucky self and have light-hearted conversations with her….BUT don't spend the whole party with her!! Allow her to feel what it's like to be the centre of your attention….and then remove your attention and give it to someone else. When she sees you having fun without her, flirting with other girls and oozing confidence, it will affect her big time bro. She will see a guy that is attractive to her (and to others) and that, more importantly, doesn't need her in his life to be happy. Make a conscious effort to go to a different room than she is in at times, and don't be caught making eye contact with her all night. By all means, keep 'touching base' with her throughout the night, but don't fall into the trap of spending the whole night with her determined!! If she does act on her own insecurity and tells you that she misses/loves you, DON'T RECIPROCATE! Simply tell her, that despite the way she says she feels, it doesn't affect her actions so thereforeeee there is no point in dwelling on it. Be nice about it, but don't give her anything back. It will be tempting to reciprocate mate, but it won't change anything….all she will be doing is fishing for the security that you have successfully removed from her life. This is a BIG opportunity mate, you can completely capitalise on all of the hard work you have put in! Stay strong bro, you'll be fine!! Ps Don't drink too much mate…..you want to be in *complete* control, and also…you'll want to remember every detail!

GeeCee! Congrats hunny Don't be hung up on the fact that you were 'off' with him...that is actually a good thing. He knows you want him...and if he perceives that your attitude has even *slightly* changed towards him, it will make him wonder why. As for fullfilling his emotional needs, you have already done that plenty....occasionally not doing it works in your favour. I must say that you almost played it perfectly....almost.....(majord resists the temptation to mention what GeeCee said not to mention .....) ...phew, I did it!!

spatz, No need to be down bro. I was worried that you'd feel like this because you had pinned alot of your hopes on hearing from her over the weekend....and because she didn't contact you, it feels like a bigger deal than what it actually is. In reality spatz, she has just arrived home, and has probably been extremely busy catching up with family etc. Her weekend has probably flown by and she more than likely hasn't had time to scratch herself (not that I'm suggesting that she scratches herself alot ). I would suggest waiting a little while (maybe until this afternoon or tomorrow) to see if she contacts you...and then send her the text you mentioned...asking how her weekend was) The reason I suggest waiting is because she may very well email/text today and that could give you the boost that you need at the moment spatz. Again, nothing to be devastated by bro......don't be over anxious, your plan is still the same mate.