notalady
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I'm so pleased to hear things are going well reinventmyself!! It's great that M is starting to relax and just be himself. It seems to work that way when one person is a lot more emotionally invested than the other at the start. It's good to see things balancing out now!
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Glad you are seeing different sides of Mark and appreciate that. Sounds like things are on the right track
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I think Mark does sound like a great partner and you are right to give this a proper chance considering what you've described of the dating market in your age group. Funny what you said about wrong use of words, would it have helped if English wasn't his first language? It's my second language and even though I'm more than fluent and some tell me I speak and write better than some Aussies (in context of where I am), I still have moments of wrong choice of words, or using the wrong tense, or pronounce something wrong, some of which are pretty funny. Like once instead if saying whiskers, I said "cat beard" because whiskers wasn't the first word that came to mind, or "running machine" instead of treadmill, or once I didn't know how to say "Nepal" and it came out sounding like "nipple" lol! My friends just think it's funny and we have a laugh. Since he had learning problems when he was young, perhaps that has affected his language capacity and volcabulary, one could argue that it's as if it's not his first language. If you tell him a word, will he remember it next time? If so, I don't think it's that much of a problem, it's always a learning process in the language department, for someone whose English proficiency wasn't the best as a youngster whether because it's not their first language or because they had a learning disability. Have you tried asking for his opinion on various world events, issues, politics etc? If so, what does he generally say? I remember thinking Z is too simple and we never had intellectual discussions. Then I remembered that i used to have more of those discussions with my ex only because he's so opinionated and would always initiate those conversations (which actually became annoying and boring after a while lol), and Z doesn't. So one day I just asked him, what do you think about this issue? And we ended up having a political discussion and it was great. What about deeper discussions about feelings and personal stuff, which you may not share with others? I get that if your discussion is always on a superficial level it's hard to feel connected.
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I just re-read your post #146 and seems that I missed the first part where you say you have to dial things back to very simple terms or fear that he may not understand. Sounds like he really does seem to be intellectually challenged? (not to sound mean! Just referring to his learning disabilities from when he was younger.) I wonder if he has actually improved since then? I think this is a tough one. However intellectually compatible you may or may not be, if you have to dumb things down to communicate with him, I don't blame you for losing attraction. Are there things to counteract that flaw in relation to capabilities? Ie he may be challenged language wise, and maybe he can't have an intellectual debate with you about current events, that doesn't mean he's not smart or capable. If you can think of more examples and real life situations where he demonstrated he is smart and capable, perhaps it will help you gain perspective? I do feel that there has to be things that you can admire about the guy to feel attracted to him, like "wow he can do that! That's amazing!" "He knows something I don't, that's so cool and interesting!" or "he's really good at doing such and such things, that's pretty awesome!" Glad to hear your mum is being released from hospital! Hope you have a good day
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It's hard to love and respect a man when you are worried whether he's able to "hold his own" even if it's just a game. Maybe it would be a good thing to put him under that context and see how he does. Not to see if he can understand the game and/or do well in it, but to see how he handles failure or "embarrassment" if any, and how he interacts with people in that context. Maybe he'll surprise you, you never know. Or he may handle it badly, but you can't know until you let him prove himself either way. I like seeing guys I date under different circumstances and see how they do, whether it be interacting with people, handling stress, handling a bad situation, handling failure (even just at something simple as a game). It's funny that I used to be bothered by the fact that Z seems like a simple guy. He certainly isn't the smartest guy I've dated. I beat him at Words With Friends (aka scrabble but on the phone app lol) by quite a bit, he handled losing well of course, as I expected. That reminded me that my ex (who is really smart), whom I also used to play the game with, used to get frustrated at some of the words I make that are admittedly obscure words that I could get or think of only because it's on the app and the app will tell you if its a word once you make it, ie it's trial and error not because I actually knew the word, and he was frustrated / mad at that even so, I get to score points. He took the game seriously and he didn't like losing. Z also said he's not good at and doesn't enjoy strategy games (neither am I), whereas my ex loved that kind of stuff. He used to go to one of his friends place and they would play this game called Risk Legacy or something, and again, he took the game seriously, and he didn't like to lose. I think one time he got mad at his friend for something happened during the game which I thought was a small thing that didn't matter. I of course didn't like that about him. Although I know Z doesn't play that kind of game, I know he would've handled anything happening during the game with humour, wit and self-deprecation, which to me is a really important quality - for someone to know their flaws and limitations and be able to joke about it. Z has also had a successful career (bar a small detour and is moving back into it again), which makes me respect his abilities and intelligence in that way. Is/was Mark successful career wise? I may have missed this or just forgot. If so, perhaps that's something to remind yourself. The thing is I've dated really smart guys, and as you said, they don't have their s**t together. One of them is actually in MENSA, in a senior position at an accounting firm at a young age (my age), also has a law degree and is doing MBA at Harvard! He was also the best looking guy I've ever dated and I was so attracted to him. But he also cheated on his (now ex) wife, their kids were 3 years old and 6 months old. He was the type of guy who lacked integrity and would do anything, even shady things, to get what he wants. He also had a lack of respect for women, which although wasn't blatantly obvious, but there were signs. My other ex (the one mentioned above re the games), he is also extremely smart but made a number of wrong career choices and still didn't have a stable established career when we met and when we broke up. He was smart but very competitive and took life (and himself) too seriously, stressed out and annoyed easily about the smallest things, I didn't enjoy being with him at all. Not saying smart guys are no good, but as you know there's bad that comes with every good, and vice versa.
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By the way I don't know if you've seen this comedy with Stephen Merchant, it's called Hello Ladies, funny and cringeworthy at the same time. In the finale (spoilers!), the girl he's friends with and likes (and slept with him once) rejected him, saying that he's not her type and she doesn't see them being together (he's very nerdy and not that good looking compared to what she normally goes for), so they stopped seeing each other (even as friends). They ran into each other at a later date, she was dating someone else, when he asked she said she wasn't sure about the new guy yet. He said "You know what I think it’s about? Love? Percentages. Look at you and me, 18% of the time you drove me crazy- I mean f***ing insane alright? But 82% of the time I had more fun with you than anyone. ever. And that was good enough for me." She ended up running after him and told him that 79% of the time she's happy with him. And they kiss, awww... A modern fairytale in my books hehe! Now I like to think in terms of percentages too, that is, how many % of the time I'm happy with Z. So how many % of the time are you happy with Mark?
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Yes I had a mental list too, but often forget about the pros list and focus on the cons list. So it did help seeing it in writing and get some perspective. I do agree though, you shouldn't be "straddling the fence" as you put it at 3 months. Perhaps it helps to think of a timeframe you would give this before giving up? I was really only on the fence during the first month and a bit, and warmed up to him after that, well enough to know I really liked him and that he's pretty great it also helped comparing like-for-like with my ex (although only a small sample size of course), with whom I had already seen some major red flags by the end of 2 months, and the same red flags kept popping up in the months following, which turned out to be the major issue of our entire relationship, and I ignored it at the time. In comparison, things have been going smoothly with Z and I have seen no red flags. There are things I don't like or find not ideal, but nothing major, and I can also see so many things that works with this relationship, in comparison to my past relationships where things didn't work. It helps putting things into perspective when I'm tempted to chase perfection, which of course doesn't exist. But with all that said, if after a certain time you still unsure after a certain timeframe (that you decide to give it a chance), it's probably best to just let it go.
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Good to hear an update! I was wondering hehe it's only been 3 months, so I'm not sure about the "I should feel more for him than I do" kind of thing. If you do feel love sometimes and other times not, that's pretty normal right? we can't always feel "in love" with a person all the time? I've had moments where I had doubts about if me and Z are right for each other when some of his characteristics annoy me, so I made a pros and cons list, of what I like and don't like about him. I find it helped seeing things written down, it helped reminding myself what's more important to me when I see the pro list made up of positive qualities (with examples where this quality was demonstrated) that I value, and the cons list is short and actually not that big a deal in comparison. It's funny I've also got 3 or 4 friends who's either met Z or seen his photos and said he seems like a really nice guy, no one of my friends ever said that about my ex lol... It's good to get that first impression view from someone else, I trust my first impression / gut feel about someone a lot (not solely but a lot), my experience is obviously tainted by actually knowing him, so it's good to hear other people's first impressions.
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How's everything been going reinventmyself?? Haven't seen an update for a while, I assume no news is good news?
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Have fun on your date!!
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That sounds great! Hopefully he can slow down now
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Could try cutting it to chest length and a new style. Still long but not as long. I have wavy hair and always use a straightener on my fringe so it doesn't look weird and wavy lol...something to consider
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haha that is true!
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Agree with happybear, he is pressuring you and making you feel bad about not being at the same place emotionally, though I'm sure not intentionally but that is essentially what he's doing. Z never pressured me like this, he was fully accepting of where I was, respected my requests to not "express his feelings", made no big deal out of it and just hung back and enjoyed spending time with me. That's what allowed my feelings to have the time and space to grow. If he can't handle this and just take things slow, and if he just HAVE to express his feelings regardless of how you feel, then I'll say it's over.
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What does he mean he wouldn't recover?
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I think it is exactly that, insecurity/anxiety based reaction. He's brain probably keeps going what more can I do what more can I do! I think you need to be very specific with what you expect him to do or not do when you said dial it back. It may seem intuitive to you and me what this means, and what he should be doing, but you'll be surprised different people interpret it differently. When I said I wanted to slow things down, my bf thought I meant I wanted to see him less (at the time we were going out twice a week). I said no I'm fine with that, it's just the lovey dovey stuff that made me feel pressured. See not everyone interpret things the same way, which is especially true between men and women. If he did indeed stop saying the L word for a few days then started again, perhaps he felt that was him dialing it back. Also keep in mind he may be afraid that if he stops showing affection (whatever he interprets that to be), you will think he's lost interest and move on, he's trying to play a balancing act right now and not doing very well at it at all, but you also need to understand this could be the reasons behind it. Also it is good to be specific about v day expectations especially when it's your first one together. I remember seeing multiple threads popped up during this last week on conflicts arising from v day and many are based on mismatched, miscommunicated expectations. So do remember that too.
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I feel like he's just too keen to win you over. The more you retreat and express uncertainty, the more he feels like he needs to do more to get you to change your mind, when in fact retreating himself would have been a better strategy. $800 bike is indeed over the top for an occasion like v day.. What did you agree on for v day gifting and celebration? Did you tell him specifically what you needed him to do (or rather, not do!) in order to feel like he's backing off and giving you space? I'm going to cite the situation with my bf again as an example, I told him specifically no more lovey dovey sappy words (because that's what made me feel pressured), and told him to save the expensive gifts for later (after he spontaneously got me earrings on a third date lol). Very specific requests and he did them. Another thing to consider is that some people are a bit too generous for special occasions and to them it's not a big deal spending that amount of money on a v day gift whereas to you (and many others), it's too much. Again, my bf is like that. He got me a whole heaps of stuff and custom made cake and a night in a nice hotel for my birthday (this was after I retracted the no expensive gifts policy of course haha), it would have costed over $1000 collectively. He thinks it's no big deal, since it was my birthday and it's within his budget.
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Vic, that's rough, but army is one of those ol' boys clubs, even men struggle. My ex was in the defence force academy, and struggled to fit in, got bullied etc. people who thrived most were jocks, jerks and violent people from what I've been told. He didn't talk much about that part of his past, I think it brings back bad memories.
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IAG your job sounds tough! Fingers crossed you find another job soon!
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I agree with you there quirky, there are social expectations on both genders that are not fair. And it is indeed a good thing to have mixed teams/board/management. It's pleasing to see quite a number of female CEOs in large corporations and other senior executive roles. I only used secretary as an example, most women I know have pursued higher education and have reasonable to successful careers, which is also good to see. I'm actually surprised by IAG's colleagues comment about whether one should be considered wife or mistress material, it is certainly a topic or view that's never been discussed or shared in my work place or social circles whether male or female. How old are these women, IAG? Yes it seems that I have derailed IAG's journal, sorry girl anyway just a bit of an interesting discussion
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Nothing wrong with wanting a man's man, or manly man or whatever it is women are into. I think it's a misconception to think that gender equality means that both genders have to be exactly the same, or "equal", and have gender roles reversed in a relationship kind of scenario, that just messes everyone up. Obviously some women like a manly man for good practical reasons (physical protection, financial stability etc), a lot are valid reasons. I personally believe in equality in a way of being afforded the same opportunities and given an equal chance in whatever it is that you choose to do in life regardless of gender, colour and any other external factors. And everyone deserve to be treated with respect (unless their behaviour suggests otherwise). The fact is men are better than women in some jobs and vice versa, and they should be hired based on their abilities to fulfil that job. Is it a stereotype that more women are secretaries and assistants because they are more well organised and have better attention to detail? Is it a stereotype that men take on more physical work because they are physically stronger and are able to better fulfill the job requirements? I don't think so. At the same time, if a woman is physically strong or a man is well organised and has meticulous attention to detail, they should be given the same opportunity and consideration for the role. Some companies I know are now making specific requirements saying we want a female on the board of directors, we must have at least x number of females on the board, well that's all good and flattering, but isn't that discrimination too? So it's ok to discriminate if it's in women's favour? Anyway that's my rant of the day hahaha..
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Hey itsallgrand! Just started following your thread and wanted to say hello! you can probably expect to see me randomly pop up with random comments hehe.. I agree the office flirting/jokes is going too far. I think by mistress material he just meant she's not to be taken seriously, it is indeed insulting and the fact that she likes it probably ironically proves it to be accurate haha.. Indeed women (and men for that matter) should be considered as individuals and not be seen as "used for different purposes", but one can't not see his point when the woman in question actually agrees with/likes being considered as such! Lol... The children thing is a funny one, I've seen so many women obsessed with having children (and with a specific number in mind too), regardless of whether they can handle it financially, physically and emotionally, without considering whether it is in the best interest of the prospective children and regardless of whether they are with the right guy (or if they even have a guy!). I don't get it. I want a child only with the right guy, depending on how that goes, maybe a second one if I can handle it and want to, but I'll be ok if I never end up having one. That's my thoughts now anyway, I may really want one regardless when I'm older but I don't know what I don't know haha...
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Hmm that's a tricky situation... The thing is he will need time to fix the issue, to see a therapist etc, but at the same time you'll be investing more time and emotions in him if you keep dating, and if it doesn't work out it will be harder to walk away and you're stuck in a sexless relationship..
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What is he questioning about 'you'? Perhaps because he knows you are not quite as into him as he is into you? It does take a lot of confidence to keep dating someone knowing that and not be affected by it. So I wouldn't blame him for feeling unsure about the whole thing if that's the case. Him not acting cool about it only causes you to pull away more though and that's unfortunate for him, but this is perhaps not his baseline behaviour (ie he's not being himself). Those good qualities sound really wonderful, and I wonder if you do reciprocate his level of feelings, whether he would feel more comfortable and secure and therefore act like himself again. Can you give more examples of your lack of intellectual connections? I'm not entirely sure what that means in your specific case, though I have a vague idea. P.S. I do remember feeling insecure with some of the guys I used to date because I felt that they weren't as into me as I was into them, and wasn't sure where I stood with them, despite inherently I'm not an insecure person.
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At the start I was interested in my bf and there was a bit of mystery and uncertainty, that kept me interested. But then he started acting too interested, and that put me off because I wasn't there yet. And I almost broke it off as you probably read. I had the same thought at the time, if he was a bit more aloof and challenging (ie keep me guessing), I would have been all over him, and it's crazy to know that despite what we say, "treat them mean, keep them keen" would have actually worked better than being open and forward about their feelings. I knew that's not right so I made myself give him another chance. I also knew that he was relationship material and sometimes they default right into relationship mode (with their expression of interest and how they treat you) and are crap at dating. But in any case, since he backed off completely after that (upon my request) and things went at more my pace, I was actually able to build up more interest in him and now I think we are on the same page. See if you can have a chat to Mark about where you're at and if you can request him to refrain from doing these things that makes you feel like it's going too fast (like saying the three words etc. for me it was more the verbal expressions that bothered me, other stuff not really). Also, objectively Mark is indeed a nice looking man (although looks like he could be my granddad but I'm only young hahaha oh and you are so pretty reinventmyself!