A long and sad story - some comfort needed.

Hello everyone, I am new here, but really could do with some advice and support.

I will try to keep it as brief as possible, but my story is:

9 months ago, a guy I worked with, and whom I had developed a friendship with, made it clear to me that his feelings had gone deeper. He began to email me, with huge announcements of his love for me...how I was everything he had been looking for and that he would not deny himself the chance of happiness. He was still in a relationship at this time, had not been married but had been with her for 15 years. Even as I type this I can hear the groans and I KNOW and wish I had not allowed it to go any further. However, I had feelings for him too, and there was a very strong attraction between us. He told me that the relationship with his girlfriend had been bad for a very long time, that there was no love, and that she had wanted to marry him but he had always refused as he never felt like she was "the one". For 15 years, sounds crazy to be now! They had no children.

Things progressed between us and he told her it was over, which precipitated a very nasty, ugly split. She moved out of the house (it was his, not hers) but she made things very hard for him and managed to get hold of my number at one point (he told her about us), and texted me to say, don't trust him, he's a liar and will never change. I should have listened to her.

One day, not long after she had moved out, I called him in the evening after work...and he said that he had been to the pub with a friend, Graham and would call me later. He did so, but later on she sent me a text message to say that there was no Graham, no pub, and that they were together sharing a bottle of wine. Lie number one (to me that is), and of course, my trust was shattered at this point.

Still, I put it down to her and believed the things he had told me about her, that she was unbalanced and bitter. She text me a few times leading up to xmas and when I asked her to leave me alone, she resorted to forwarding me texts intended for him ....saying things like, if you don't love me why were you in my bed last Thursday etc etc... I chose to believe him.

At Christmas, he dumped me...telling me that he needed space, didnt know what he wanted and that he felt that I suffocted him. He asked me for a few weeks to decide what he wanted, but insisted that his ex had nothing to do with any of it...that he didnt see her. On Xmas day, I was accidentally sent a text message intended for her, proving otherwise, and I decided to move on. I was heartbroken, but I managed to make the break despite the fact that I had to and still do see him every day at work. That was hard.

As SOON as he got the message that I was not interested (at the end of January I started dating again), he began two and half months of begging me to take him back...it was relentless...telling me he wanted marriage, would sell his house and move closer that I was everything he has ever wanted. He told me he wasnt in touch with his ex any more. He broke down at one time and took time off work, telling me that he couldnt bear to see me knowing he couldnt have me. He made me lunch every day, despite me throwing it away very often and despite me never responding to his text messages.

After two and half months, I gave in. My love for him, sadly and as messed up as it sounds, had never died and I he had displayed such strong feelings for me that I felt maybe had had learned his lesson and that it was just a symptom of the fact that he was trying to get over the break up of his long term relatonship. So I allowed him back into my life. But of course, I didnt trust him AT all...

At Easter, we spent the weekend together at his place...only for it come out(due to a phone call I overheard him trying to have secretly), that his ex was still very much on the scene and, after much coaxing he admitted that he had been keeping her on one side also in case I would never have him back, telling her that he loved her etc etc.

SInce then, my life feels like it has fallen apart. He has admitted he has huge problems, that he doesnt want to be with her any more but feels constantly pulled back by habit and fear of the unknown and that he can never make a decision in life. He tells me that he does love me, that he has never felt such passion for anyone but that it scares him and when he gets close again he just wants to run. He says she is his comfort zone.... He has arranged to see a relationship counsellor and is awaiting a regular appointment, but I know that all of that has come way to late for me...

I should tell you a few more bits of background history - his ex knows about me and him, in a fit of rage one day after Easter I found her on facebook and sent her a message telling her everything. She doesnt seem to care, just wants him back. He has had affairs in the past - cheated on her at least twice to my knowledge. He was a heroin addict from age 18 to 27 and then got with her just as he was coming off, and addiction she too had shared along with his sister who died of AIDS contracted from needles. A very bad past with lots of guilt and sorrow attached. He lives in the house that was his sisters, that she died in and that house has this feel of death in it, it's as though it just hasnt changed in all that time. He often drinks too much, especially if he has been spending time with her.

Please try not to judge me, I really did fall in love with this man and believed the things he was telling me. I have my own insecurties and a desperate need to be loved - I am 40, and a divorcee. He is 42. I dont want to know how to get back with him, only how to make sense of what has happened and how to get over it...

This is a guy who wouldnt know a commited loving relationship if it slapped him in the face. He is enjoying the attention of two females. Enjoying knowing he can pick you both up and put you both down as much as you like.

He has two women that love him, he can flit between them as he likes, and neither of them will show him the behaviour is unnacceptable.

I wouldnt be suprised if hes telling her the same things hes telling you.

He is not worth your time hun, he really REALLY isnt. You will not trust him again.

Thanks for your reply. You are right, I will never trust him again..

I am right in that someone who LOVES you could not, and would not treat you like this and make you feel like this.

Life is far too short to feel so sad and betrayed and worry for the rest of it.

Time to get off the crazy train! These two have all kinds of negative drama in their lives, and this sounds like a scenario they play over and over again... They drag a third person into their drama, and when it looks like you're going to escape, they drag you back into it again.

There is absolutely nothing in this relationship for you. He lies, he cheats, he jerks you around, he's an emotional mess, a former addict, and I see nothing about this situation that is going to get better.

Even if he finally sheds this ex, he most likely will find another woman to play out this drama with.

This isn't love at all, just weirdness and terrible psychological games. You will not find a loving stable relationshhip with this guy.

And most important, you SHOULDN'T trust him, because he is untrustworthy and has proven that repeated times. So the part of you that doesn't trust him is the sane part, and you should listen to it.

Also, people have all kinds of tragedies in their lives, and their response to it ISN'T cheating and running around with two women. So what if his sister died? It's very sad, but it totally irrelevant to the fact that he likes to juggle two women. An appropriate response to a death is to get therapy, or volunteer to help drug addicts, not use a death as an excuse to run around with two women. Don't make pseudo-psychological excuses for a guy who is a liar and a cheater. Even if you can explain behavior, it doesn't justify it.

He is also not a baby. He needs to learn from his mistakes. When he cheats and lies, he shouldn't learn that if he begs and acts pitiful, he gets what he wants. You took him back and gave him a second chance, and he continued in the same way, still lying and cheating. He'll ping pong back and forth between you and his ex forever if you let him.

Remind yourself that is not your job to tolerate a liar and cheater just because he gave you some sob story about his past. Do you want a stable happy life? Obviously there is no chance of that with this guy. I suggest you give him the boot and take your own normal life back rather than getting sucked into his craziness and drama.

He can declare undying love forever, but what is he doing? He certainly isn't showing you undying love, he's showing he is capable of loving multiple people at once and creating upheaval and misery in everyone's lives, while making himself the center of attention. That is no way for you to live.

This is a guy who wouldnt know a commited loving relationship if it slapped him in the face. He is enjoying the attention of two females. Enjoying knowing he can pick you both up and put you both down as much as you like.

 

He has two women that love him, he can flit between them as he likes, and neither of them will show him the behaviour is unnacceptable.

 

I wouldnt be suprised if hes telling her the same things hes telling you.

 

He is not worth your time hun, he really REALLY isnt. You will not trust him again.

Yep, you have just about summed it up. You will never get love from this guy because he is a mess. All you will get is the pretense of love in order to get what he wants. I would say stay far far away from this mess of a human being.

Thanks agan,I guess this is exactly the kind of strength and affirmation I am looking for. I have to see him every day at work and its so hard to see him and hear his voice and to keep all of this in my head, but I know I have to.

I have been through a divorce, but that was a walk in the park compared with this as he has caused me so much confusion I feel like I dont even know who I am any more.

You'll find yourself again, without him.

Make a list of all the reasons you better off without him and why you need to do this.

Then stick it up somewhere or take it with you and whenever you miss him or feel down, read it and know your doing the right thing.

Thats a good idea - I guess I can read this at work too.

I'm such a loving person, and I guess he saw that. Its hard to know if I could trust anyone again...

You will.

Just not him.

DOnt fall back into his traps.

He's proven himself weak on lots of levels. He's also selfish, in that he's choosing to do the things that are easiest/most gratifying for himself, even though he knows he is hurting two other people.

So it is not just a question of trust, but of weakness and self centeredness.

There are plenty of people who would never lie or cheat and would be strong enough to avoid this kind of behavior that is obviously hurting the people he supposedly loves. He's like a child where he is so absorbed in his own little world that he's not taking responsibility for how his behavior is affecting other people.

Its what he has done to my confidence that most worries me - he told me how he loved me, how much I am what he wants, going into minute detail to flatter me, breaking down when I wouldnt give in to him...and then, when things didnt go his way or I showed insecurity as a result of his actions...he would tell me "chill out, why do you have to be so intense", or "you are such a turn-off".

How can someone be so cruel?

Easily. I've been where you are. Words are easy. His actions show a different story.

Unfortunately there are cruel people in this world... users, liars, cheaters, manipulators etc. They use words as a smokescreen to cover their true selves and actions.

But what you've really learned is the lesson that good people make their actions match their words. They don't say one thing and do another. This guy professed undying love, yet his actions were to also run around with his ex. Someone who really loves you wouldn't do that. He's just not a good guy if he lies and cheats, so you should have no qualms about walking away from him. His words sound good, but his actions are terrible. And he uses words to harm you and manipulate you too.

So in future, you just need to look for people where their actions match their words, and if they don't, then most likely the words are untrue. Anyone can easily lie, but good people don't lie about significant things like fidelity.

So you don't have to be afraid of all men, just open your eyes and don't believe everything you're told if the actions don't match the words. Make sure the person is consistent in words and deeds.

Things progressed between us and he told her it was over, which precipitated a very nasty, ugly split. She moved out of the house (it was his, not hers) but she made things very hard for him and managed to get hold of my number at one point (he told her about us), and texted me to say, don't trust him, he's a liar and will never change. I should have listened to her.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking at this point in your story!

Look, I'm not going to judge you but I simply have to say - as the one with the objective point of view here, this man is a mess, his life is a mess.

Your desire to be loved may well be very deep. I'd say most of us have a deep desire for that. However, if you don't love yourself - how will you know what love is? How will you know what the line is, between being loved and being used? How will you know that what he gives you is love and based on love - not just self-serving words/gestures based on selfishness?

You have clearly forgotten (if you ever knew) how to love yourself. Trust me when I say - you have to end this relationship - get some counselling - work out what it is about yourself you respect and admire - spend some time living a life that promotes those qualities.. treat yourself well.. and then you'll know when a man is treating you well (is loving you and is worthy of your love) and when he's not.

thank you for your post Indigo. Posting on here and spending time thinking over the weekend has really helped more than I can tell you.

Everything you said to me is true, but this relationship is definitely over. I have to work with him (even in the same office as him) and that's hard. I sent him an email on Friday telling him that it was over, and exactly what I thought about how he had treated me for last nine months. He sent me a message this morning telling me that he was "upset" by it, and that he felt my psychoanalysis was way off the mark! lol...

I replied and told him that I didnt care whether he was upset or not, that he has lied, cheated and manipulated his way through the last 9 months and he has to completely leave me alone from now on (I threatended that I would go to our manager with the entire story and ask to move workspace if he doesnt). Now, I have to just get on with my life...I feel like I have a sense of perspective at last, can see him for exactly what he is...and yes, you are right...he is a mess.

I am not saying I feel "over" it all..there is work to be done on myself I think to ensure that I don't ever get involved with someone like him again...but I hope I have made a very good start.

Oh, I am so very happy for you amanda.. I'm sure there is so much waiting for you that will bring happiness and joy - and it certainly isnt him!!

I'm not surprised he disagrees with your analysis of his character and actions. I doubt he'd want to agree with anything that didn't portray him in a sympathetic light.

It's going to be very hard to move on with him working in the same place as you .. I hope that won't have to be permanent and either he or you will move elsewhere at some point. Otherwise it's so hard..

It is VERY hard to move on with him around. Yesterday, having told him how I felt, my anger carried me through. Today I feel a little deflated, and every time I hear his voice or see him it sends a little stab of pain through me.

I do realise that I wasnt in love with HIM, but in love with the lies he told me, but still, its proving really hard.

Just try really hard to focus on the realities here... he's a liar and a cheat and was emotionally abusive towards you. It's easy to romanticize when you really wanted something, but you need to focus on why it won't work.

Make a list of all the bad things he did, and whenever you get sentimantal, bring it out and re-read it to refocus on who he really was.

Aaarrggghh!! Massive setback - I was doing so well.

I allowed him to speak to me today (albeit on the chat facility we use at work) and he told me that he is still in love with me and attracted to me...I dont think he was trying to get back with me as much as trying to subtly affect my confidence whilst I am still vulnerable.

He then went onto to tell me that I make him feel exposed, like he is made of glass (because I told him the truth I guess) because I would never let him get away with the lies he told and the inconsistencies in his behaviour. I pointed out that I was not a doormat and he said but there is something inbetween, that I was always quizzing him and it made him uncomfortable and I again reiterated that had he not lied, and cheated maybe I wouldnt have needed to question his behaviour. I know for a fact that up until the point his ex contacted me the first time to tell me he was lying to me, I was totally trusting of him...

He then made all sorts of confessions ranging from he is a typical Italian male (he grew up in Sicily) and that they are chauvanist pigs, that he has never grown up, that he is full of depression and that he feels that he cant cope with life....I said to him that these are all excuses he makes for himself to justify his behaviours, but he was having none of it, that they are truths and he cant cope, cant grow up etc etc

All of this was peppered with compliments and declarations that he still loves me and as much as I know its all part of his game, a little bit of me doubts and wonders whether maybe if I had been more laid back he would have behaved more consistently eventually....But deep down, I know this is not the case. I guess I could just do with some reassurance.

Think of him as heroin. Think of yourself as an addict who is trying to get off the heroin. Every time you speak to him or have any sort of contact, it's like taking another shot.

You need to go cold turkey.. stop all contact.. if that means getting another job perhaps you could start looking? I know it's a tough climate but it can't hurt to look.

Be Brave and MAKE THAT BREAK, get out of this rut which will only play over and over again like a broken record, hurting you more and more each time.

Make the break, avoid all contact and never trust what he says again. It's very hard, but do it, go through the pain of it, feel the pain even, cry, wallow in self-pity for a while, spend time with friends, but just promise yourself you won't go back to it.

I hope you do. It's only you that can do it, no-one else. Stay away x

So he has manipulated you yet again into thinking all his really outrageously bad behavior is somehow something you could have controlled if you were a better girlfriend.

What nonsense! He is now trying the sympathy ploy... if he tries this again, just cut him off and tell him you are not his therapist and if he has issues he needs to discuss them with a therapist and not with you. It is not your responsibility to put up with lying and cheating regardless of why he does it.

His approach to you is very classic approch used by narcissistic addicts. Everything is not his fault, it is your job to be tolerant of his abuses, he'll have a sob story as long as his arm as to why he engages in bad behavior blah blah blah. He is taking no responsibility at all for his own actions. He's even dragging Sicily in as an excuse.. unbelievable! Nowhere is he taking responsibility for his own choices and bad behavior, and he never will. Many many people have horrible childhoods and families, and they don't lie and cheat. It's all excuses. He's casting around for something you will buy.

Don't waste one more second on this guy. He's a classic liar and cheater and addict, and there is nothing in this for you at all.

You guys are amazing...seriously. You have given me so much strength to see the truth, even where close friends have been unable to.

He has tried it again today, sending me a message telling me he thinks he is ill, maybe even dying, and to be honest...its so crazy I laughed. I took the opportunity to ask him if he had been spending time with his ex and he replied that he had, closely followed by the comment "but I am my own person". He really does take the biscuit.

I *think* I'm on the uphill journey now, and I need to stay focused - its a pretty big challenge but I am so glad I found this forum...

Its what he has done to my confidence that most worries me - he told me how he loved me, how much I am what he wants, going into minute detail to flatter me, breaking down when I wouldnt give in to him...and then, when things didnt go his way or I showed insecurity as a result of his actions...he would tell me "chill out, why do you have to be so intense", or "you are such a turn-off".

 

How can someone be so cruel?

They can be cruel. I wanted a commitment in a year long on/off casual fling where I was told that he could not give it, then as soon as I moved on, he came back and offered it, then let me down again. It was awful.

You will be fine, just stay away. Its natural to want to go over it and understand it, like you are doing now. Its very hard to accept that someone doesn't actually care that much about you, when you truly believed they did - because you wanted to. Its a classic case of human nature - you always want something you cant have.