She's against a prenup, I won't marry without one, are we doomed?

Ok, let me preface this by saying me and my girlfriend are no where near marriage, we've only been together 5 months. But we've talked about marriage and are both in agreement that we can see ourselves being married some day, when we're ready. However, the issue of a prenup came up and thats where the problems started. She is fully against a prenup. She thinks it dooms a marriage from the start, and if you really love eachother you shouldn't need a prenup etc etc.

I personally think a prenup is a responsible decision to make, and saying it "dooms a marriage to failure" is like saying car insurance dooms you to an accident.

I will NOT get married without a prenup, it's an absolute deal breaker for me. I love my gf and if we did ever get married, I would fully intend to stay together until death do us part. But statistics show that at least 1/3 of first marriages fail. And almost every one of them was "real love". I don't mean to be so cold, but I'm a realist, and the reality is, a good portion of marriages don't last a life time, and divorce is a long, painful process. A prenup can solve a lot of those problems, and it can include clauses for what happens if one spouse cheats, alimony, child college funds, who gets the house etc etc.

My gf refuses to see my side and finds the whole idea insulting. I'm kind of at a crossroads here. I want to convince her that a prenup is not me being selfish, but actually me looking out for whats best for both of us and our potential future family. Prenups are not one sided, they protect both spouses. That's the point of them.

I'm afraid if she doesn't see my side, our relationship might be doomed. There is no point staying together if we both have very strong, opposing opinions on this point.

How can I convince her that a prenup is a smart decision? Should I dump her if she doesn't agree, or just stay together hoping she might change her mind some day?

What exactly do you have that would warrant getting a pre-nup?

I can see why she is hurt that you would require one. She is probably feeling you don't trust her or the relationship much. I see your side too, you want to protect your possessions.

So again, what do you own that you would be afraid to lose in a divorce?

I am also kind of curious I thought prenups were necessary if you had real assets before getting married...otherwise everything you procure while married is for both of you i would think...

I'd rather not disclose my financial status online to a bunch of strangers, hope that's not rude.

In any event, the point of a prenup is to settle any potential disputes before they occur. Emotions are escalated during a divorce, especially when children, real estate, and significant sums of money are involved. How can you possibly agree on the small things during a divorce if you can't even agree on the biggest, most important part of your relationship - staying together?

The prenup is not just for me, its for her too and future children. It's to protect everyone in the event that the worst actually happens. It's insurance.

But she is insulted that I could ever even think of divorce. Well excuse me for being logical, but A LOT of people pledge their lives to each other and then get divorced only to leave one or both spouses, not to mention the children, extremely screwed.

Well, I don't agree with prenups, so I can't offer you any advice about getting her to take her side.

you say your girlfriend refuses to see your side...but you seem to refuse to see her side too. Why are you trying to get her to see YOUR side , or get her to see YOUR point of view.

It doesn't seem like you care about her point of view at all, as you are just trying to find ways to get her to change her mind.

This to me is a red flag as well..for her.

What about her opinions and feelings?

My opinion is that if you are considering getting a prenup, you should reconsider getting married... to anyone.

When you marry someone, you take everything about them, their assets, their debts, their love etc etc.

Having a prenup seems to put everything on the financial side of things.

how is it considering anything that both parties may contribute to the marriage that is not determined financially.

I think it's silly to compare it to car insurance, ... if you are already thinking 'what if' or 'You never know"... then why would you still consider getting married to that person??

Well, I'd get pretty ticked too and I think myself a logical person.

Him thinking of divorce at 5 months of dating = this guy is pretty cynical

Just saying, way to suck all the romance out of your 5 month relationship.

Personally, I think that this is one of those jump the hurdle when you get their things.

I want my husband to have a vasectomy when we are all finished having kids. My bf probably doesn't want to talk about it now...

Also, a prenup doesn't just protect you from losing what you have now, it protects you from losing what you acquire in the future.

For instance, lets say a couple marries, and the man owned a business prior to marriage. 10 years later they decide to divorce. The company is now worth 10 times as much as it was when they got married, but the wife had no involvement with the company. Why does she deserve half of those assets?

Another example from another perspective. Lets assume a couple get married and through the course of that marriage, the husband manages to run up 100k in credit card debt. That debt is also shared. Why is it fair that after a divorce (with no prenup established) the wife gets stuck with 50k of the debt?

how about the prenup is only active if the wife was the one who caused the divorce?

If you cheat on her, she should probably get 50%...at least.

I think that's a good compromise.

Also, a prenup doesn't just protect you from losing what you have now, it protects you from losing what you acquire in the future.

 

For instance, lets say a couple marries, and the man owned a business prior to marriage. 10 years later they decide to divorce. The company is now worth 10 times as much as it was when they got married, but the wife had no involvement with the company. Why does she deserve half of those assets?

 

Another example from another perspective. Lets assume a couple get married and through the course of that marriage, the husband manages to run up 100k in credit card debt. That debt is also shared. Why is it fair that after a divorce (with no prenup established) the wife gets stuck with 50k of the debt?

it sounds like you are just thinking of marriage as a financial agreement.

I can see why she is insulted.

Of course the wife deserves those assets... thats the point of marriag in my opinion.. everything is shared,

If she isn't contributing to the marriage financially, it doesn't mean she isn't conributing to the relationship... maybe she's ironing his shirts or taking care of the bills... and even if she does hav a lower paying job, are you seriously saying that she doesn't deserve to have equal part in it??

marriage isn't about, 'this is mine' 'this is yours' 'this is mine, but this is mine too'

I think THAT'S the reason most marriages fail, is because of attitudes like that. Instead of thinking of the couple together, people just want to do what's best for themselves.

Doesn't the pre-nup protect what you take into the marriage not what is made in the marriage? In Texas, from what I understand, that is property of both and is divided up equally in a divorce.

In my experience when people want to protect their stuff they don't really have much to begin with. That's why I asked about your possessions. Hey maybe you're an Oil millionaire and live in Dallas... I don't know. You should talk to a lawyer and find out for sure about all this.

Also when someone is afraid of losing in a relationship they are usually on the take and are not very generous people... with their feelings etc. Why are you worried? If you don't trust her you shouldn't marry her. That's what I think.

I understand it's early in our relationship, but the topic came up in a conversation once and turned out to be a big red flag for me. If we have completely differing opinions on this subject, then maybe we shouldn't be together? I dont know. Unfortunately it's not one of those "hurdles you can jump when you get to it". Because if you wait to long, or too close to the marriage, then one spouse can claim they signed the contract under duress and it will be thrown out if a divorce happens.

I'm trying to be mature and look out for myself and my future family. I don't believe that most people are capable of being rational at an extremely stressful time like divorce, so these things should be worked out before hand, just in case. That's not to say that I'm planning on divorce, I want to marry once and stay with that person for the rest of my life. But so did 33% of other 1st time married couples who are now divorced.

I totally agree with prenups and maybe this should be a red flag for you.

The way i see it you have an asset or assets that you want to protect that you have worked hard for fair and square, no one should have the right to take that from you. But the law is silly and without a prenup you can stand to lose a lot.

It's great being in love and having the feeling that you will be happy together forever and as much as people promise each other forever it doesnt always pan out that way, lots of times it ends up nasty.

I think it's reasonable for you to want to protect your assets and if she doesnt agree i think there is something within her that u would want to question.

My advice dont get married without it. Better to play it safe than be sorry later. Money isnt everything and money shouldnt come before love but the reality is if you were to lose your assets no one in the street is going to give u money or look after you.

LOOK AFTER WHAT YOU HAVE. GUARD IT WITH YOUR LIFE.

I am not saying this is your gf but i had a friend who wanted to marry a man who had $$, and she always told me she wouldnt ever get married to someone who wanted a pre nup, i later over heard her talking to another friend saying she was waiting for the "right" one so she could have a baby with him, screw his life up and take his money and get child support for the time the child was eligible for it.

how about the prenup is only active if the wife was the one who caused the divorce?

 

If you cheat on her, she should probably get 50%...at least.

 

I think that's a good compromise.

Right, exactly. Those kinds of things can be spelled out in a prenup. If one or the other spouse cheats, then such and such happens. There are all kinds of things a prenup can protect against.

Yeah, not saying that this is a bad move to discuss it. More people should discuss finance pre-marriage since it is the number one factor for marital problems.

However, do you see how insensitive the way you put it was?

You gotta give the girl some slack here.

one thing I got from your first post, was that you aren't willing to listen to her concerns. You said this is a dealbreaker ( same for her)

Don't you think this could be a problem in a long term relationship or marriage?

Do you think any marrage could last with an attitude like that?

Where is the compromise?

Also when someone is afraid of losing in a relationship they are usually on the take and are not very generous people... with their feelings etc. Why are you worried? If you don't trust her you shouldn't marry her. That's what I think.

I do trust her now. But I don't know who she will be in 10 years. I don't know who I will be in 10 years. People change, drastically. Marriages can change people, for the better and for the worst. Most divorces are not cordial occasions. They're pretty cut-throat. And these are people who pledged their lives to eachother at one point.

Yeah, as shikashika said, you need compromise. Even in the long run if she did give in a get a prenup, she'd probably have spite because of it for the rest of the marriage. Vice versa for you without one.

You just gotta add a little tact to subjects like this. Instead of saying "well, we're getting a prenup" (or whatever), talk about them lightly, hypothetically. Then find common ground and go from there.

Personally, I find little things to be deal breakers. As long as the other puts forth effort that I see fit and me the same, there is always hope.

people change, sometimes like the wind!!

one thing I got from your first post, was that you aren't willing to listen to her concerns. You said this is a dealbreaker ( same for her)

 

Don't you think this could be a problem in a long term relationship or marriage?

 

Do you think any marrage could last with an attitude like that?

 

Where is the compromise?

How can I compromise on something like this? Would you marry someone who was a severe heroine addict? Of course not, that's one of your deal breakers. Who the hell am I to tell you that you're not listening to your significant others point of view, you should instead compromise. A deal breaker is a deal breaker, we all have them. And this is one of mine. I would really like to stay with this girl, but if we don't see eye to eye on this issue, then it's probably time for me to move on.

Next time wait until you are about to pop the question to bring up the pre-nup.

It's not romantic in the first phase of a relationship to start thinking this way.

If you ( or your family ) has considerable assets, your ex wife is going to make out well with or without a pre-nup.

This is the phase where you think " am I in love?" " do I want to spend my life with this person" . It's way too early for a pre-nup talk.

Next time wait until you are about to pop the question to bring up the pre-nup.

It's not romantic in the first phase of a relationship to start thinking this way.

If you ( or your family ) has considerable assets, your ex wife is going to make out well with or without a pre-nup.

This is the phase where you think " am I in love?" " do I want to spend my life with this person" . It's way too early for a pre-nup talk.

Totally agree, it's probably a "little" too early to be talking about this. BUT, the topic came up, so now I have to seriously consider if we will work long term. You can NOT bring a prenup up right before asking someone to marry you. It voids the prenup in many cases because one spouse claims they were forced to agree to it. It sounds like bs but it happens all the time, I've done my research.

How can I compromise on something like this? Would you marry someone who was a severe heroine addict? Of course not, that's one of your deal breakers. Who the hell am I to tell you that you're not listening to your significant others point of view, you should instead compromise. A deal breaker is a deal breaker, we all have them. And this is one of mine. I would really like to stay with this girl, but if we don't see eye to eye on this issue, then it's probably time for me to move on.

well, if you can't comprmise on it, how can you expect her to???

And if she does, she's not compromising, she'd just doing what YOU want.

i don't know why you are comparing a girl who doesn't want a prenuop to a heroin addict.

would you ever comromise on anything you don't want to do? Because i can't imagine a marriage where everyone gets what they want. So really, your marriage is already doomed, because you are essentially saying "if I don't get my own way, I'm out"

By having a prenup, you are laying out your exit strategy already, it gives you an easy way out.

by having a prenup, why take the time to work at the marriage, when you know with documents you signed, everything will be ok. By signing a prenup, it's liek saying you don't want to work at it, or compromise... and clearly that's you, because you said you want her to change for you.

What else do you want her to change? And, if she does change for you, do you not feel bad that you are making her do something she does not want to do?

When you get married, you are supposed to become 'one'.

it's good u have started talking about it, better now, then to go out with each other for a couple of years, think of marriage and then have this problem.

Maybe just tell her that it isn't personal at all. She took it that way, from the sounds of it. And frankly, it's hard not to.

However, try to be a little more sensitive from now on. You should discuss topics, not cement rules at this stage in the relationship.

More important than the prenup is the fact that you realize you may not agree on many other things and neither one is willing to be flexible. In a relationship you have to compromise and be flexible. So, maybe you have bigger problems here.

I agree with the poster that said it's very early to discuss pre-nup. Obviously it's important to you or it would not have come up. Maybe someone who feels the same is better suited.