Should I end it? I'm UNBELIEVABLY hurt by her actions.

[melrich]

So why is he wrong for doing as she said?

 

Because things are stewing and not being resolved and the whole thing is building into something far bigger than it should have been. They should have talked when this started. There should have been no letter. He should have TALKED to her. They should have stopped texting and emailing and TALKED.

 

Just because yesterday she said Sunday is irrelevant. She now wants to talk now. So should he if the relationship means to him what he said it did in the first post.

 

Talking does not mean he has to back down or apologise. On that level I agree with everyone else.

[Echo]

He wrote her an INCREDIBLY beautiful, heartfelt letter and she took a crap all over it. Why should he call her because SHE is crying for hurting him? She didn't apologize, she is shedding a few tears because he isn;t jumping at HER insistence. This isn't just about "pride" it is about respect. If she respected him she would have been MUCH more appreciative of HIS

efforts when he spilled his soul to her.

[melrich]

He wrote her an INCREDIBLY beautiful, heartfelt letter and she took a crap all over it. Why should he call her because SHE is crying for hurting him? She didn't apologize, she is shedding a few tears because he isn;t jumping at HER insistence. This isn't just about "pride" it is about respect. If she respected him she would have been MUCH more appreciative of HIS

efforts when he spilled his soul to her.

 

The letter was fine as we read it. She has read it another way (i'm not saying she's right in doing that but it's what she's done), she's gotten upset and reacted badly so the thing to do is shut her out?

 

These two HAVE NOT SPOKEN A WORD since the day this blew up. Don't you think that is a bit weird?

 

You don't handle conflicts by shutting people down or just resolutely sticking to your guns. Someone has to make a move to communicate and either get things sorted or end the relationship. As it is now, they have a big issue to get over.

[pianoguy]

The letter was fine as we read it. She has read it another way (i'm not saying she's right in doing that but it's what she's done), she's gotten upset and reacted badly so the thing to do is shut her out?

 

That's absurd! He's not shutting her out. She was the one who originally said "Now or Sunday," and he chose Sunday. It was a wise decision, allowed for some cooling off time and some thinking, as opposed to a heated argument.

 

Yes, I concur that there should have been more communication and less texting, but the point still stands that she made a completely immature, selfish, unreasonable, insensitive, idiotic, hurtful, rude, and inconsiderate response to his letter. It doesn't matter how you read it. She was out of line. There are certain things you do and don't do in a relationship. Dropping the f-bomb when someone pours their heart out to you is a "not do."

These two HAVE NOT SPOKEN A WORD since the day this blew up. Don't you think that is a bit weird?

I think it's a perfectly rational response as it allows for some cooling off. When they speak it will be with cleared minds.

You don't handle conflicts by shutting people down or just resolutely sticking to your guns. Someone has to make a move to communicate and either get things sorted or end the relationship. As it is now, they have a big issue to get over.

What you are advocating is amazingly destructive. It should be obvious to everyone (and it is to everyone else on this board) that she is clearly manipulative and controlling. By "sticking to his guns" (as you put it) he is standing up for his worth and dignity as an equal part in the relationship. Being in a relationship does not mean you have to give in to what the other person wants every single time. That is clearly what has happened thus far. Being in a relationship is about EQUAL compromise.

 

And we are all advocating dialogue, just at a later point in time. I don't think it will be productive, she is clearly bonkers, but waiting on the dialogue until Sunday will be the wisest thing this guy can do.

[kellbell]

Plus, as I understand it, the original poster is a on a business trip at the moment. Nothing constructive can be done until he gets back. They need to speak face to face. All this nonsense that happened thus far in this thread occurred via text/phone and mySpace messages.

[melrich]

That's absurd! He's not shutting her out. She was the one who originally said "Now or Sunday,"

 

She's calling him and asking to speak and get things resolved. Just because she initially said "now or Sunday" does not mean that it needs to be blindly stuck to. If one party wants to resolve something, get it resolved one way or the other.

 

What you are advocating is amazingly destructive.

 

That's absurd!

 

 

You have a different opinion. I had a different opinion to some in my post to this thread but I did not make derogatory comments on any of the posts I disagreed with.

 

Advising a couple to talk about their issue is "amazingly destructive"?

 

I trust my advice is neither absurd nor destructive although I respect your right to disagree with it. In which case, quote my advice and remark "I disagree".

 

Please accept that there will be different perspectives posted on these boards and there is no need to make derogatory comments about advice you do not agree with.

[treefrogkate]

Wade, if it is bothering you to hear her cry, why not call her up and tell her "I will talk to you about this, but this is something that needs to be discussed face-to-face. We will talk about it on Sunday when I get back." If she says she wants to talk about it now, refuse on the grounds that text and email got you into this mess, and it would only make things worse at this point, and you don't want to make things worse.

 

She's probably terrified that you're just going to dump her, since she probably was just trying to bully you into talking when she said Sunday. I understand you shouldn't acquiesce to her demands, but on the other hand a little reassurance would go a long way to preventing her from totally freaking out.

 

This is just my opinion, but I have never been one to respond well to the silent treatment. I would be freaking out too.

 

P.S Sorry for the caps, but I can't stress this enough: FOR PETE'S SAKE, DO NOT EMAIL OR TEXT ANYMORE. If you're going to contact her, call her. Texting and emailing are fine for little things, but when it is an issue that could make or break your relationship, they are DEADLY.

[pianoguy]

Melrich- I'm sorry that I came accross as derogatory, I was a bit exasperated, it won't happen again.

She's calling him and asking to speak and get things resolved. Just because she initially said "now or Sunday" does not mean that it needs to be blindly stuck to. If one party wants to resolve something, get it resolved one way or the other.

 

I disagree. I gave my reasons in my last post.

Advising a couple to talk about their issue is "amazingly destructive"?

 

I disagree. You are oversimplifying. Nobody is advocating a cessation in dialogue. Yes the advice was destructive, essentially things would wind up at square one, likely he would apologize. The advice is especially destructive since it is clear that this is what he is predisposed to do, likely it was only the near-unanimous verdict of the rest of the board that he hasn't done it already. It short, it could undo all the progress we've made thus far. I don't really expect this to happen, but the potential is there.

[melrich]

Nobody is advocating a cessation in dialogue.

 

The gist of what has happened here is two people who are very much in love with each other have had a conflict/argument/misunderstanding. Call it what you will.

 

The advice, shut her out for 4 days, don't answer her calls, give her the silent treatment because that is how you will get her respect (I think that's why he's supposed to be doing it) I think is wrong.

 

I think she has been stupid in her response to his letter. I think she was stupid to place demands on him like that. But from there she has been making efforts to resolve the conflict. Who knows she may have been calling to apologise. We'll never know because the OP ignored her calls.

 

I mean come on, the woman you love calls you begging you to talk to her, crying and you decide to just let her stew for a few more days? We are not playing with teenage relationships here.

 

I am not advocating he apologise. I'm not advocating he take back what he said or put up with her constant hints about getting married. What I'm advocating is that he talk to her. How that could possibly be the wrong thing to do is completely beyond me.

 

I don't know if we'll ever hear from the OP again. But something often clicks in a person when confronted like this. I hope for his sake it does not click in her because he sounded very much in love with the girl.

[mr_echo]

My recently ex wanted to marry me 4 months into the relationship as well. I said I should at least meet her family first as at that point I hadn't. I'm glad I didn't because I now know she was doing this to get back at her best friend who she was falling out with, who had just got engaged. I had a lucky escape but I truly love her...

[treefrogkate]

Well said, melrich. I couldn't agree more. I would die inside if my boyfriend ever gave me the silent treatment.

[pianoguy]

The gist of what has happened here is two people who are very much in love with each other have had a conflict/argument/misunderstanding. Call it what you will.

I've been trying to sort this out in my head and I think this is where we disagree.

 

I think it is relatively clear that is is much more than a simple misunderstanding. That is certainly an element, but the fundamental element is MATURITY, namely on her part. This can't be resolved with a discussion like a misunderstanding can. Misunderstanding or no, there are some simple lines of ettiquete and respect that need to be maintained, which clearly are not in this relationship.

 

We all get angry. We all have fights with our lovers. But regardless of how much you fight there needs to be some level of dignity and respect that is maintained.

 

One of the special previlidges of a relationship is that you get to confide your dreams and fears to your lover, regardless of how ridiculous they are. One of the most hurtful things that your lover can respond with is by mocking your dreams or your deepest feelings. There have been times that I have done this to my boyfriend inadvertandently, when this happens I apologize profusely, unconditionally, and sincerely, usually followed by flowers or a puppy.

 

She clearly has demonstrated no level of remorse for her actions. If you will review this thread you will notice that everytime she has called it has been in to reference to how SHE felt. She has, in short, demonstrated zero respect for his worth as a person and his feelings.

 

You say they are in love.

 

just because i think valentines day is a stupid holiday and think its rediculous to go all out for it

 

doesn't change the fact that i am a girl and im programmed to like these things deep down and want a little romance.

 

but what do I get?

 

an email saying you dont want to marry me right now because apparently our relationship isn't to that level.

 

happy (F-Word, I censored it)ing valentines day to you too

That, my friend, is not love. That is spite.

 

Yes, he loves her. Of course he does. She doesn't love him. Young couple in love with a simple misunderstanding? I think not.

 

So you can understand why I think a delay of a few days is not going to seriously harm this relationship. It might even help him to get some measure of dignity, which is what he needs most at this point.

 

Do you sincerely believe that this relationship is not severely disfunctional? Do you really think that this talk is going to yield something productive? Do you honestly think that she was calling to apologize when she showed no tendencies to do so in the past?

[melrich]

Do you sincerely believe that this relationship is not severely disfunctional?

 

No I don't believe it is dysfunctional. I think if you go back to the first post, the OP clearly describes it as the best relationship he's been in, that he's in love and that even his circle of friends think it is a great relationship. But he notes that she has been immature in the past. That to me is not dysfunctional. It means like any relationship it needs work. That is no guarrantee it will ultimately work but is it unsalvagable......not to me it isn't.

 

I think what has happened here is that the immediate responses to what she did were highly critical of her (understandable) and through the course of this thread, that image has been built that she is this ogre who has shown no regards for his feelings.

 

What I think has actually happened is these were two people in love. I think she got ahead of herself and the relationship started thinking in terms of marriage. She began to raise it with him and he rightly got concerned by this believing it was too early.

 

She has been building a mindset that this was headed to marriage. When she got teh letter from him all she read was "I don't want to marry you". Wrong I know.

 

Things blew up from there. The only thing she has done wrong in my opinion was to think that this relationship was more advanced than it was and to respond badly when she was told where he was at.

 

At that point, they should have gotten face to face and talked this through. I don't believe he should have blocked her out. What if that crying message she left was her calling to apologise, to say she understood where he was coming from in retrospect. It may not have been but I come back to the point that you don't just deliberately ignore the person you love and allow them to stew...no matter which way things are going to work out.

 

The best piece of advice about relationship conflict I have ever had, bar none, is "don't go to bed with angry with each other".

 

Translated, don't let conflicts or misunderstandings fester. They generally only get worse with time.

[EvaGina]

The best piece of advice about relationship conflict I have ever had, bar none, is "don't go to bed with angry with each other".

 

This is my rule too, and my bf knows it

If i have to go to sleep mad at him, its over...

[treefrogkate]

Spot on once again, melrich. I think it's important to realize that this whole mess probably could have been avoided if it was handled in person (or at least on the phone) instead of by myspace messages and emails. It's so easy to misread or misinterpret the written word without seeing the other person's body language or hearing the nuances in their voice. I'm not saying she was right to explode about the letter, but like melrich said, she had a vision built up in her head of what would happen, and was disappointed when it didn't happen.

 

Again, I don't think the OP should just do whatever she wants him to, but at the same time leaving a girl crying for days just because you want to "teach her a lesson" seems like a bad way to strengthen a relationship with someone you love.

[RayKay]

I hope that Wade comes back soon and lets us know how things went on Sunday.

 

I agree with melrich in the respect that it is probably NOT a good idea to just not talk for a few days about it...I can respect not wanting to talk seriously about it for a few days, but I do think that a short call to say "I know where you are coming from, and I know you are upset. I am thinking about this, and we will talk about it when I come back on Sunday when we can talk face to face....I love you".

 

It is clear that he DOES love her, and care greatly for her. Her behaviour was not acceptable for sure, but I suspect she is reacting out of insecurities or pressures from friends as well, and she regrets her reactions. I can absolutely say in the past I have felt these pressures and insecurities too, and while I never went to quite that extreme, I know I have not always been rational...and sometimes that understanding or forgiveness when I did react out of fear or insecurity was extremely healing and beneficial for us both.

 

I am not saying that this means he needs to stay, maybe this is reason for him to rethink things and whether she wants him for him, or not....but not talking to her just to prove the point is only destructive to them both; particularly if he does really feel what he shared in that letter.

[DN]

I have to say that I might agree with melrich if the relationship was considerably longer than four and half months. But for her to react as she has to his reluctance to commit to marriage after such a short time is, in my opinion, scary. He was not unkind in the way that he expressed his reluctance, in fact he was remarkably tactful. But instead of conceding that he has a right to his point of view, especially about something as important as marriage, she becomes accusatory and spiteful.

 

She shows little or no concern for his feelings or concerns but can only see her own. This does not augur well for a relationship especially a marriage. I would be very hesitant to continue a relationship with someone who reacts like this when she does not get what she wants.

[melrich]

I have to say that I might agree with melrich if the relationship was considerably longer than four and half months. But for her to react as she has to his reluctance to commit to marriage after such a short time is, in my opinion, scary. He was not unkind in the way that he expressed his reluctance, in fact he was remarkably tactful. But instead of conceding that he has a right to his point of view, especially about something as important as marriage, she becomes accusatory and spiteful.

 

She shows little or no concern for his feelings or concerns but can only see her own. This does not augur well for a relationship especially a marriage. I would be very hesitant to continue a relationship with someone who reacts like this when she does not get what she wants.

 

This is really missing my point.

 

I also don't know whether this relationship will work or not. I also think his email was well written. I also think she responded badly and maybe selfishly. I also don't think he should apologise nor back down.

 

My point is this. Most of the advice has been to not repond to her until Sunday (which would have been 4 days since the last contact). That is don't answer her calls, don't respond to texts, don't respond to emails.

 

Now however you want this thing to work out, my feeling is you don't just shut someone out like that. Especially someone you are in love with. She may well have seen the error of her ways, she may well not have. But do you punish her for having the feelings she had or responding to those feelings in the way she did.

 

I don't think this was an issue to let someone stew on (I think very few are). On the 4 and a half months issue. It's a bit like how long is a piece of string. I know people who are closer after 4 and a half months than people who have been together for 10 years.

 

Thing is, after 4 and a half months her head was at a point where she wanted to marry the guy. We can all have our opinions on whether that was appropriate or not but that is where her head was at. And she was disappointed that he was not quite at the same place. That part I can understand. I think her email response that caused all teh hoo ha was out of line but i don't think it was that great a crime that you shut her down for 4 days.

[EvaGina]

I think he should just shut her out until he calms down enough to deal with it. AND TELL HER the reasons why... not just stop talking to her out of the blue.

[finewhine]

I think the OP is blinded by the fact that he never slept with anyone before, but that's just me.

 

SO WHAT HAPPENED???

[treefrogkate]

I wonder if we'll ever hear from the OP again. Wade, if you're reading, I hope it all worked out.

[Hope75]

Wade,

 

Just wondering how things went?

[WadeCure]

An update to everyone.

 

First of all, I want to thank everyone for caring very much about what I've been going through and for their words and advice, I sincerely took them to heart and it was incredibly rough when all of that stuff was going on.

 

So are we still together? The answer is yes we are.

 

We just kind of dropped it and moved on. She hasn't mentioned marriage anymore with me because she seems to have it in her head that marriage is the reason I was upset - when in fact it was her doing what she did when I poured my heart out to her that hurt me and upset me. I explained that to her as I was lying in bed with her before we fell asleep, she said something to the effect of "well sometimes I'm not going to like what you have to say and you won't like what I have to say." Because of that and other things she has done sometimes I really feel like I can't really open up to her because... when I'm stripped to my core and I tell her what I feel (like I did in my letter) that she'll either not want to hear it or have some reaction like she did with the letter. I'm afraid this is going to blow up to one huge problem someday because at one time I had a best friend that I was pretty much very revealing towards and she accepted me and cared for me - I felt like I could be myself around her. My girlfriend.... not so much. I don't know how to approach my girlfriend with this need. In retrospect I feel like I had tons more and a deeper connection with my best friend that I did with my girlfriend and I was far more closer to her even if my best friend was thousands of miles away.

 

She's convinced that we are supposed to be together and we are going to last forever. I'm just not so sure, I want it to last forever but I don't want to be in an unhappy relationship either. Last week I was without her and I really didn't miss her very much. I think a lot of the reason that I'm having trouble with things is that this is my first truly official relationship, I don't know what to expect from these things. An example of one instance that bothers me is her lack of affection towards me. I think I posted about it here actually. One month and a half into our relationship she hardly ever hugs or kisses me anymore, and if I were to ever try to be affectionnate towards her it would be rejected. It's still that way. I feel really low to want to be hugged and kissed every now and then. I may mentioned in a previous post way back when that after one month and a half of dating, she didn't want to cuddle because "we don't have to cuddle anymore, we're like an old couple" after nonstop showing of affection and etc before then. She even got me to lose my virginity to her.

 

This is my first relationship, I'm 25 years old and this is my first official relationship, and I think that's playing a huge factor.

[melrich]

This is my first relationship, I'm 25 years old and this is my first official relationship, and I think that's playing a huge factor.

 

You are probably right but you are learning things about being in a relationship and about yourself everyday.

 

when I'm stripped to my core and I tell her what I feel (like I did in my letter) that she'll either not want to hear it or have some reaction like she did with the letter.

 

We just kind of dropped it and moved on.

 

These two things worry me because they are indicative of teh fact that you are still not TALKING at the level you should be in a relationship.

 

First don't ever not say what you are feeling just because you are worried about the reaction you may get. Learn new ways to say things. Hopefully with this experience you have learnt that email is not a great way to communicate delicate personal issues. Learn how to put things so they are not immediately confronting and do it face to face so your partner can see and feel the emotion of what you are telling them.

 

Second don't just move on from an issue without getting some sort of resolution. And that is the danger of not addressing an issue in a timely manner. Both parties just sort of "move on" and don't want to revisit the thing that caused the problem in the first place. Never go to sleep angry with each other. It's great advice. It nearly always comes back to bite you.

 

Relationships are tough work. They are much tougher if each of you is only giving half the story to the other.

 

Good luck with everything.

[kellbell]

Hey there,

 

Thank you for the update. I think we all were on the edge of our seats. LOL

 

Well, you should be able to communicate with your partner. Openly and without consequence. Sure, you are not going to like what she says and visa versa but the fact is, the need to communicate and williness to communicate needs to be there. Communication strengthens the bond with your partner, it makes each person learn and grow together. I suspect this is why you did not miss her much while you were away. You two have not bonded, have not grown together, instead you feel estranged from her. You cannot live your entire life walking on eggshells and I am afraid this is fate you will seal for yourself if/when you marry her.

 

This situation you are in really saddens me, very much so. You sound like a great guy, a type of guy many women would kill to end up with and you are in a relationship with a woman whom holds you with no regard, is not affectionate to you, nor advocates communication but yet, a few days ago, she was crying and begging you to call her, to talk to her. She only wants to communicate when it suits her. This is a darn shame my friend.

 

And the feelings you convey in your posts is very sad as well. There is SO MUCH MORE out there, so much more beautiful out there than your current girlfriend is willing to give. I wish you can believe that and give it a chance. Marrying her is not going to change her, or change the current state of your relationship, it will make things worse if anything. I can only pray you reconsider marrying her. Marriage is supposed to be a beautiful thing, not something so dark and one-sided as your relationship is at this point.

 

Don't you think you deserve more?