Trouble with b/f's past

[hope123]

i think...my b/f might justify cheating if certain things were going on in the relationshio..like coldness for a long period of time..not like a bad day or something but maybe months of coldness or if the girl stopped have sex with him for a long period of time.

[caro33]

i think...my b/f might justify cheating if certain things were going on in the relationshio..like coldness for a long period of time..not like a bad day or something but maybe months of coldness or if the girl stopped have sex with him for a long period of time.

 

So he's moral but only to a point? Why do you think he would support or justify staying and cheating over talking about his needs or just leaving in the above situations?

[hope123]

well i didnt go into a full discussion about this with him..BUT if my b/f has a problem usually he will come out eventually and say it..like one time after a fight..we werent the way we usually were with one another..like talking coldly on the phone, not holding hands or anything else..so after about day 3 he finally said..things cant go on like this, i'm sure you know it doesnt feel normal.

 

I dont think he will run out and cheat the moment a girlfriend said dont feel like having sex tonight..but if it happened over and over for like a month, talked about it and still nothing changed..i can see him looking to someone else for attention etc etc. With all honesty..if my b/f didnt want to sleep with me for a long period of time, or stopped being affectionate completely or kept blowing me off even after telling him this needs to change, i might look somewhere else for attention..sometimes things happen..obviously it doesnt fix anything and a break up will result..but these are usually reasons people look somewhere else. Of course its more mature just to leave. I guess i could see my b/f justifying cheating if the above was happening which would i guess make moral but only to a point.

[Batya33]

This sounds perfect because you think cheating is justified if you're not happy and so does he. So there's your answer - you do have compatible values!

[caro33]

Sorry hope, but if this is how tenuous your view of your relationship is then I completely understand why you cannot trust. This sounds like an endless probation period where you might have the rug pulled out from under you without you knowing, with betrayal just part of the relationship based on how someone feels at the time.

 

No sex for a month means it might be okay to cheat? What about the blurrier areas, just say you had a baby with him and didn't want to have sex for a couple of months - do you think he would cheat then?

 

Do you think that this is how "normal" relationships work, or is this just how you characterise your own? Do you want something different?

[hope123]

i'm not saying..if i had a medical problem or after pregnancy and didnt want to he would say its ok..i'm saying if for no real reason..if there was no sex for a long period of time, fighting, coldness..i think a lot of people would be tempted to look the other way. I'm not trying to justify anything or what he thinks..but i think its natural that when everything in the relationship is going wrong even after speaking with the person..sometimes temptation becomes harder to resist. And there are some who would just still be with the person even when obviously everything is wrong and they wonder what to do..and then there are some who would just leave..i guess i am saying its a greater chance with certain factors occurring .

 

This is not my whole view of the relationship is..you asked specifically about cheating and what he thought about it.

[Batya33]

All I am saying is that you and your boyfriend both find cheating justified in circumstances where you are unsatisfied with the relationship. If I were unsatisfied, I would talk it out, try to resolve it but I would not cheat if the talking didn't work - I would leave. On the other hand, you - and your boyfriend - would not leave, but would stay and cheat.

 

I am trying not to judge here, just restating what you wrote and observing that this is a good thing for you two because the two of you both believe cheating is justified if you are unsatisfied and talking didn't help resolve the issue. This is good - you are on the same wavelength and I now understand why you don't want to fight with him - because you are afraid if you do he will cheat and you might not be able to say anything about it since you might have done the same thing if you were mad at him.

[caro33]

I guess there is a difference between looking at someone else's situation and thinking "oh yeah, I can see why they did that" versus having expectations that others' standards should also be your own. I'm not sure I'm expressing myself well here, please be patient with me!

 

What it sounds like you are saying here is that because you have been able to see why some people cheat, and empathise with that, that perhaps that would also be part of your own and your boyfriend's approach. But there's a difference. You can afford to not worry about morals and fidelity when it's looking at someone else and empathising, you have no responsibility there. But in your own relationship you DO have responsibility.

 

The usual approach people make to commitment is to say "I will NOT cheat on you, and I expect you to NOT cheat on me". Yes, sometimes things go awry, but people do not generally say at the start "I will NOT cheat on you...unless we have problems, like maybe no sex for a while and we feel bad". Do you see what I am saying? It sounds like you have built your fears and observations of others into your actual expectations of your boyfriend, as well as your expectations of yourself.

 

I think you might have misunderstood my question in the last post. I am asking you whether this aspect of relationships, your characterisation of trust etc, is it what you think is normal, or is it what you think is just in your own situation?

[caro33]

i'm not saying..if i had a medical problem or after pregnancy and didnt want to he would say its ok..i'm saying if for no real reason..if there was no sex for a long period of time, fighting, coldness..i think a lot of people would be tempted to look the other way.

 

By the way, the problem as I see it with this - the "no real reason" approach -is that everyone has different means of justifying their own behaviour. Continuing with the post-pregnancy theme, what if there was no medical reason, but you were just tired and your libido waned? You just didn't want to have sex? Some men might think that that is not a "real reason" and so would cheat. Your guy might feel really slighted that you won't make the effort for him and think you are shutting him out. But it's real enough to you. Bad stuff that happens in relationships always has a reason, it might just be of a different rationality.

 

Look at your current issues with the bikers rally. You might raise this and your boyfriend might think you have no real reason to get upset. But in your view, you do.

 

All I am saying is that this is a really slippery slope. You build qualifications into your commitment and you are setting yourself up for doubt and insecurity.

[hope123]

Batya and caro,

 

all i am saying is that it is just more likely to cheat with all those circumstances..it may not happen of course but it is more likely. Of course when going into a relationship you say i will not cheat and i expect you not to cheat..but nothing is guaranteed..i read countless posts on..i have been married for so and so years but this one time last night i did this..or my b/f cheated on me after 4 years etc etc..of course they went in the relationship i am guessing promising to be faithful but when certain things happen and they happen for a long period of time..its more likely a person might stray. Im not justifying cheating..saying its good or its ok if this happens and he acts like this..i'm saying it can happen when things dont go great for a very long period of time. People use it as an escape i guess or they stop caring. Thats all i am saying..i'm not saying i am gonna cheat or he is gonna cheat b/c we got into an argument or something. I'm saying its possible no matter who you are with and its possible for a person who says i would never cheat to be caught up in an affair. I know of some people personally.

[caro33]

Okay we have maybe had a misunderstanding.

 

The question to you was "what is your boyfriend's attitude toward cheating?" and your response was along the lines of "he would if he wasn't happy, and so would I probably". This is not quite the value statement I was looking for.

 

I also agree that cheating can still happen no matter what people thought they believed, but if I was asked what is my perspective I would say "no, no cheating allowed, and I will never cheat". I would expect my husband to say "no, no cheating allowed, and I would never cheat". So then you have a foundation of trust to build upon.

 

How about I try and frame this differently: what comprises your foundation of trust? What are each of your core beliefs about how you should carry yourselves in this relationship? At your best, what do you honestly expect from him and what should he expect of you?

[hope123]

i expect my b/f not to cheat and i am positive he expects me not to. He says don't even come to him saying it was a drunken mistake(if i cheated). He says he does not buy that stuff and says a person knows what they want to do whether they have alcohol in them or not and they make the choice and are just using being drunk as an excuse. Obviously he wouldnt forgive and i'm sure he knows by now, neither would i

[Batya33]

Here's what I take from all of this, Hope. Your top priority above all else is to keep this man. Period. Whether that's because he's a prize or because you're afraid of being alone - I don't even think you could answer that question. So, despite the fact that you don't trust him, and try to make excuses about his values about cheating, and despite the fact that he might not want you to go on this trip with him, your mindset is that keeping him and having man - even one you don't trust - is better than not having a man at all.

 

That may be a misimpression but it is a strong impression I am getting. And, if I am right, then it really doesn't matter what his values are, what your values are, etc. - all that matter is your overarching value that keeping him is more important than feeling that you can trust him.

[caro33]

i expect my b/f not to cheat and i am positive he expects me not to. He says don't even come to him saying it was a drunken mistake(if i cheated). He says he does not buy that stuff and says a person knows what they want to do whether they have alcohol in them or not and they make the choice and are just using being drunk as an excuse. Obviously he wouldnt forgive and i'm sure he knows by now, neither would i

 

Excellent, so you have a clear No Cheating policy.

 

Given that, what do you think are behind your concerns that he might cheat or otherwise be untrustworthy around other women? If we look at the rally on the other thread as an example - do you think he might have no self-control when confronted with opportunity?

 

If this is what you think, do you think it's because he generally doesn't have much self-control and this is his failing as an individual, or is it because you think all men would be like this?

[caro33]

I tend to agree with Batya's last statements hope. Your apparent lack of desire to go to the trust issue, to really look into your own motivations or really get to know your boyfriend look a bit like it's about keeping someone at all costs. I don't want to come down on you hard, but...

[hope123]

a B/F in that type of environment..i wouldnt think he would 100% cheat but couldnt it be possible? Despite..like i said..if this is the type of an event a b/f wants to go to..i just dont think you tell your g/f no you cant come..i dont see it as right..hopefully he will my view when i talk to him

[caro33]

a B/F in that type of environment..i wouldnt think he would 100% cheat but couldnt it be possible? Despite..like i said..if this is the type of an event a b/f wants to go to..i just dont think you tell your g/f no you cant come..i dont see it as right..hopefully he will my view when i talk to him

 

I guess anything is possible, but I see this trust thing as the air that kind of keeps this relationship flying - you can't see it but it's there. You kind of just have to believe it will work, rather than deciding the odds are that it won't.

 

That was a crappy analogy, sorry! But do you see what I'm saying? Trust can be elusive to define, but the fact is that he seems to deserve it. He's built some trust credits with you hasn't he? Well sometimes he gets to cash them in.

[caro33]

..i just dont think you tell your g/f no you cant come..i dont see it as right..hopefully he will my view when i talk to him

 

I think he is able to tell you whatever he wants. This "rights" argument you kep putting up really sounds bad. It is not an eleventh commandment or something that he doesn't get to go to a hobby get-together any more than it is a commandment that you get to get insecure and he has to put up with it.

 

He lives his life and you get to decide if you like it or lump it. And vice versa. Please when you discuss this frame it as your feelings and what you will and will not tolerate rather than your rights and his lack of rights.

[hope123]

I see what you are trying to say.

 

But i still feel i need to tell him how i feel..and you are right, i probably should word it differently rather than saying i have a right to go..ask him if he meant what he said 2 weeks ago and then say why it would be a problem if i spent my own money and flew down and then if he makes excuses..say well you went last year by yourself, do you think its fair that you go every year without me and i cant even see for myself what this is like? and mention maybe that even his family member last year said why arent you flying down to meet him

[hope123]

caro,

 

from things i have told you..do you think he is "too independent" i'm not sure if anyone has even called someone that but sometimes thats how i see him regarding me..like he is already planning on a hunting trip and of course this bike thing.and he will be more than happy to go somewhere with me but i feel like he is thinking about that stuff more and i will have to initiate a trip..i feel like he was definitely used to doing his own thing..like only seeing a girl once or twice a week at night..he said he was satisfied with that(with other girls and probably would be ok with it regarding me) and like one day during the weekend i never saw him but i felt it was important to spend some time during the day together and go out and just have more time doing whatever..it took awhile but he slightly changed where we sometimes spend a whole sunday together.

[caro33]

Hmm. Well he never blows you off and I think that's in his favour. He's not putting you last, he's just putting his own needs in there as well.

 

I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask about this because I have history with people who ran their own shows re scheduling, and they did not turn out well. I'm sure there are heaps of men and women out there who live happily with partners who pursue their own goals and holidays etc.

 

No, I don't think he sounds TOO independent, he sounds okay to me from what you've said. He's just feeding his needs, and he may well be a much better boyfriend to you BECAUSE he has his alone time. I go mad if I don't get my alone time - we all need to replenish ourselves somehow.

 

But it can get out of hand. My ex-fiance LIVED for the plans he made to hike, bike, do everything by himself. It felt a bit like the plans he made for the two of us were just a sop to keep me happy, not because he genuinely wanted to do it. After we were engaged he went to Malaysia to present at a conference, and then hiked through the jungles for a few weeks. He was gone a month all up, and he called me once I think. It might have been no call at all, I can't remember. And there WERE phones, there was email - he just didn't use them. That's how much he thought about me. He sent postcards but didn't even think they wouldn't arrive - most arrived well after he got home. I spent that month in an increased state of freakout thinking he'd fallen down a cliff or something. So our thoughts of each other were quite misaligned!

 

So perhaps my point is that there is independence and there's independence. If he wants to go do his thing but he also makes time for you, if he thinks of you and stays in contact, maybe cut him some slack. If, however, you honestly think that spending time with you comes maybe third or more in place after his favourite things to do, then perhaps critically evaluate this and ask if it's what you want.

 

I don't think there is such as thing as too independent (unless you want him to be dependent? Not fun either I promise) but there is too separate, too distant. Unengaged (disengaged?), like you are a hobby to be picked up and then put down when he's sick of you.

 

Is he like this?

[hope123]

i dont think i am a hobby to him..something he drops when he is done with it..but i feel like i had to argue my way to see him more often..and like he does it sometimes but i still feel like he would rather be doing something else..like if sleep over one night on the weekend and we wind up sleeping later than we should b/c he usually does things around a family member's place or works on his car..he says waste of a day..which started to really hurt my feelings..i would take it personally as its a waste that you are with me..and he would say i am taking it completely wrong..that he just has things he needs to do and it has nothing to do with you..i told him one time that he needs to stop saying that..b/c i would hear it a couple of times in a few months if we wound up sleeping later than he wanted too..he stopped..sometimes he still says it but he stopped mostly and i kind of learned maybe it really doesnt have anything to do with me, although it still hurts to hear..but we spent one day during weekend completely together..and he didnt say one word of that..when it was like 5 and we were out doing something..i said oh you wanna get something to eat..and he said why cant you eat something at home in a nice/joking kind of way but i felt it was his nice way of saying..time to go home..i think he saw my reaction to it and we ate some left over food at his place. So i guess his heart is in the right place sometimes but i dont think he can help thinking..i have this and this and this to do. I mean its good that he uses his time mostly in getting things done rather than going to bars but sometimes i feel like its a little TOO MUCH. Guess i just wanted your opinion on it. Sounds like he is independent enough but to me sometimes a little too much. Oh well though.

[sophie274]

Hope, what do you think your boyfriend would think/feel if he saw your posts on here? (not a rhetorical question, an actual question)

[Batya33]

It sounds like the two of you have different lifestyles. Although both members of a couple being really busy means that the couple has less time together - it works in the sense that both of you understand and respect that each other has a life apart from the relationship. My bf and I can get work done while being in the same room together - hours might go by without talking much or being affectionate but it is a very nice, cozy/comfy feeling to know the other is there and it makes the work more tolerable!

 

 

It also sounds like there's an imbalance with you having to nag or whine in order to get him to spend more time with you, which probably makes him feel a bit trapped and thereforeeee this vacation sounds all the more appealing.

 

Why don't you get busy with other things - and if he seems to want space, give him three times as much.

 

And yes, I would offer to spend my own $ to fly down there but obviously if he really wanted you there he would have gladly accepted your first over.

 

If you have to show him the pictures in order to get an invitation from him I would advise not going - do you really want to feel like the only or main reason you were invited was because your boyfriend understood that you would be insecure if he was in an environment with strippers? Gee, sounds like a blast. NOT.

[hope123]

Well, i would see myself going. I just dont think he understands where i am coming from. Maybe after asking and possibly showing him the pics, he will. I hope anyway.