Manipulation or am I just not good enough?

[Siriana]

Well first of all I am sooo happy you decided to face your fears and went to her parents house for holidays. I know it must have been hard and it took a lot of fighting with fears from your part as well as positive thinking. that was a great thing to do.

 

Well also I think that this brake up is a good thing. Please don't hate me for saying so. She was exhausting you and aparently she wanted marriage and kids and you're not there yet. You weren't at the same place in life. So it is better to be alone and in some period of time ready to meet someone good for you.

I still think she was manipulative but she was also right that you are not at the same place in life right now.

Probably you were not so compatible so you triggered each other.

 

I hope you will feel better soon. You can always ask for advice here or simply vent.

[caro33]

You're welcome, sorry I had to go, would have written back otherwise.

 

What you are feeling (were feeling?) is all too familiar - do you set high standards for yourself in the rest of your life? The thing is, you can't change someone and while we all know that intellectually, it's hard telling our emotions and egos that. Not your role to make your girl change her value system, and by setting yourself up to do that you must know that you are setting yourself up for failure. That was what you were doing by hoping that somehow you'd 'break though'!

 

The thing is also that I find it hurts much more to be the one who is told 'this isn't working' even when I was not far off saying the same thing. None of us like to feel rejected, even if it's contrary because we knew it wasn't working.

 

I had a relationship a little like this a while ago, and was very hurt when I was told it wasn't working. Even though I'd been pretty sure I couldn't see us changing to become more compatible, I still didn't like being on the end of 'nah, I don't feel that strongly for you'. I had worked hard to make it happen even though I wasn't sure about the bloke involved.

 

But I met my husband-to-be the same weekend that happened!

[lizziebee]

OK here goes. I think your gf keeps "The Rules" on her night stand and hides it when you come over. I never ask my bf for anything...unless it is needed. Not wanted. We live 2 hours from eachother and yes, at 8:30 one night he had a insecure meltdown (early in our relationship..maybe BP I dunno I am not a doc) anyway, I would do anything for this man and he would do anything for me and yes, sometimes you need to ask because the whole mind reading thing is b.s. as we all know, but some men and some women have histories of being afraid to ask for what they want, say what they want to say...hence the phrase 'nothings wrong'...We try very hard to be there emotionally for eachother FIRST, no matter where we are and what we are doing. I hate cell phones but keep mine for when he needs to just say hello! And of course that long ride to see him if I break down...I know all the pseudo feminists are having a fit, but I am me, I am true of heart and I love this guy. He never says 'nothings wrong' anymore, he asks for what he needs from me and I will do everything in my power to give it to him....All I am saying is that all women are different of brain as well as bod. Your girl sounds very needy and manipulative and I am sorry, its just a judgement call and you need to keep yourself safe first. Good luck. LB

[cc2006]

You're welcome, sorry I had to go, would have written back otherwise.

 

What you are feeling (were feeling?) is all too familiar - do you set high standards for yourself in the rest of your life? The thing is, you can't change someone and while we all know that intellectually, it's hard telling our emotions and egos that. Not your role to make your girl change her value system, and by setting yourself up to do that you must know that you are setting yourself up for failure. That was what you were doing by hoping that somehow you'd 'break though'!

 

Actually no, I don't set high standards for myself. My shrink has made a comment about me being somewhat perfectionistic though - so maybe I do? But ... I'm one of those always-trying-to-be-relaxed, don't push myself overly hard people. To be honest I've been pretty much coasting for the last 10 years. Not until this past year have I stepped up and decided to go back to get my degree finished and stop working underpaying jobs that make me insane. Sad thing is I'll be in my 30's before I get done, and that kinda' hurts ... everyone around me is several life-steps ahead of me.

 

I'm pretty stressed and anxious about going back to school. I hated it the first time I went, and dropped out. I'm frightened that after 10 years I won't fit in anymore (not that I ever felt like I did before) or those same feelings of displeasure over the whole college thing will resurface and I'll have to battle them again.

 

 

The thing is also that I find it hurts much more to be the one who is told 'this isn't working' even when I was not far off saying the same thing. None of us like to feel rejected, even if it's contrary because we knew it wasn't working.

 

I had a relationship a little like this a while ago, and was very hurt when I was told it wasn't working. Even though I'd been pretty sure I couldn't see us changing to become more compatible, I still didn't like being on the end of 'nah, I don't feel that strongly for you'. I had worked hard to make it happen even though I wasn't sure about the bloke involved.

 

But I met my husband-to-be the same weekend that happened!

 

Her and I have wobbled back and forth on the fence about this relationship (at least I thought we were) for months. Our hour-by-hour conversations at night about how I wasn't meeting her needs, or wasn't giving her what she wanted drained me to the point where I've been cold. I just couldn't take them anymore.

 

Her and I just show affection differently. The thing is, I've never felt like my showings of affection have been "good enough" for her. She made a complaint that her ex never bought her flowers or anything and that caused problems in her relationship with him. She felt he didn't "do things" to show his affection. I've never bought flowers to show my love for someone before, but I thought about it and decided "what the hell" .. it took a grand total of 5 minutes of my time to pick something out online I thought she'd like, and have them shipped. 5 minutes of my time to make her feel happy and loved ... what a bargain! Especially since some nights I'd spent 4 HOURS on the phone trying to console her and talk her into believing that I cared.

 

Know what? .. the flowers were a big hit, and she was happy for a little while. I did it a couple more times too ... when I thought she was having a bad week or something I'd get her flowers. A couple times I'd put them in her place in a vase on the table while she was at work so it'd surprise her when she got home.

 

Hurray .. a man learned how a little thing like that can make a woman feel special, right?

 

 

The next week, her focus changed to "you aren't spending enough time with me". So, I spent more time with her. It still wasn't enough. It got to the point where it was last week - I spent 4 days straight with her and the next week I'm getting the "no time spent with me" speech again.

 

Then, the horrible "You don't give me compliments about how beautiful I am, so I must be hideously ugly" bullcrap started. Every time we talked she'd throw that line at me. Every time she did I'd just get frustrated and angry. My family hardly speak to one another, and it is NEVER anything positive. I was just not raised that way. I show my love and affection in other ways. "You look so beautiful in that outfit" does not cross my mind. She could not understand that.

 

"Don't you ever just look at someone and think OMG they are soooo beautiful?" - Uhm, no, no I don't. I dunno' ... I'm working on this in therapy, but to me it isn't that huge of an issue.

 

Hell, it helps keep me faithful No running off with the hot secretary for ME ... I could care less what she looks like.

 

 

Ever feel like you try and try and do and do and someone always focuses on what you DIDN'T do? Well, I'm drained now.

 

She has emailed me already. One of those "I can't stop crying and thinking about all the happy times we had" emails. She called last night too, around 12:30 ... she must not have been able to sleep. I didn't answer it. I looked at it, felt anxiety over letting it ring, but didn't answer it.

 

My last two relationships (including this one) I've always been 1 second from the phone. I always answered when it rang. I always made sure, because I felt like that was my job in life ... to always be available. If I wasn't, I'd get the dreaded "why didn't you answer?" "where were you?" and sometimes the "are you seeing someone else?" So I always answered. Last night, I let it ring.

 

Not sure what shes doing. Dunno' if she is having second thoughts on calling it quits, or if she just wants company for her misery. I'm not sure if I should respond to her email or answer the phone.

 

My usual post-breakup depression and lonelyness-that-feels-like-a-giant-hole-right-through-your-soul anxiety attack laden nights hasn't started yet ... I'm alil shocked, to be honest.

[caro33]

Look I think you sound great, and like someone who many women would love to have in their lives.

 

You've been unlucky, or made some poor choices perhaps in your women to date, so learn from them. Perhaps you are being too eager to please, too malleable. It's too bad when being a nice person means you get tied up in knots trying to do the 'right thing' (while the definition continues to change), because you can lose sight of yourself.

 

But maybe there are some ground rules you can start to establish from here on, like, don't stick around with a demanding person, don't compromise yourself for a relationship. Don't be TOO available. Get out of the bad relationships before you start to question which way is up, or before you have the chance to say 'better stick it out, it's been X months/years of investment'.

 

Errr, I've been there. Not good.

 

From what you write it is clear you know this was not a good relationship, so while you are hurt and lonely, you're not horrified or shocked. Once you get past the grieving stage you may even feel relieved to be free of this rubbish. It's normal to feel bad, but that doesn't mean it's worth revisiting this one - remember that no matter what she says, you know who she is now and she's not really for you. Someone else will be if you make the effort to be single and put yourself out there.

 

Re the standards thing, yes I meant along the lines of being a bit perfectionist, wanting to stay in control, but sometimes that means we are too afraid to take a risk because 'better the devil you know'.

 

This is perhaps a good time to look at the things you value, to map out what you are really looking for in a woman. It sounds like perhaps a person who would complement you is someone who has a strong self of self, of their own accomplishments, so they can support you, and also not drain you too much for their own ego needs. Someone with a generous spirit, who won't look to take advantage. I am big on lists, on values, and I think I woffled on about them early in your thread. I would recommend you try this, to help you get control of what you want, what you are looking for, and also perhaps consolidate your current intellectual position re Ms Demanding and her (lack of) suitability for you.

 

There I am, lecturing again. Feel free to ignore, & I hope you keep well and get past this whole thing as painlessly as possible.

[Ellie2006]

Hey cc2006,

 

I totally agree w/ everything Caro has said, especially the part about making sure not to lose sight of yourself in relationships. (This is something that I need to work on as well!! Any tips, Caro??

 

I am all for claiming ownership when things go awry but please re-read your most recent post: admittedly I am not privy to *all* that went on b/t you and your ex but just based on what you wrote, you MUST see that it was always going to be something else w/ her ... anything and everything from you not paying attention to her or not complimenting her or not spending enough time w/ her, ad nauseam ...

 

You really can't please someone who refuses to be content w/ what they already have ...

 

For what it's worth, I think you made the right decision in breaking up w/ her ... Now this doesn't make the break-up any less difficult to deal with ... so please be extra kind to yourself during this healing process, okay?

 

And please let us know how we can help! We're here for you!

 

Take care and best wishes cc2006!

[Rabican]

Hello all,

 

She believes that if two people are in love they'll WANT to do everything with each other. She refuses to hear my side .. which is .. if two people are in love they'll compromise and each do little things they don't really WANT to do but will do for each other.

 

She feels if we're really "meant to be" then I should WANT to drive 3 hours to visit her family that I don't feel 100% comfortable around.

 

 

cc2006

 

Tell her if she really loves you, and that if you are really meant to be together she will realize that sometimes you need to do your own thing. You want a partner, not a siamese twin. No matter how much you love someone you still have to have somewhat of your own life. She shouldnt expect you to eliminate everything except for her from your life.

[cc2006]

Tell her if she really loves you, and that if you are really meant to be together she will realize that sometimes you need to do your own thing. You want a partner, not a siamese twin. No matter how much you love someone you still have to have somewhat of your own life. She shouldnt expect you to eliminate everything except for her from your life.

 

I've tried that one. Well not "siamese" .. but twin, nonetheless.

 

She IS a Twin. My therapist commented that may be a large part of what our problem has been. She is totally used to someone who is very much like her and is always there. Thats how she grew up, I'd figure.

 

Trying to explain that there are differences between romantic love devotion to one another and a sibling's love and devotion are tough ... especially since she is pretty stubborn in her views.

 

Shes always been the typical "uh huh, uh huh .. yeah, no I see what you're saying ... BUT ... thats not right" type communicator. Theres pretty much no getting through to her.

 

 

 

Anyway ... she called a couple more times and left me a voicemail, crying. So I broke down and called her back.

 

I guess during our break-up converation I had said "well do what you need to do, it isn't like I'm going anywhere" ... as in ... I don't have huge plans to rush out and date, or move cross country, or whatever (I start classes in January,- I'm gunna be busy enough as is!) ... if she needs time to work on her issues and try and rekindle things later I wouldn't be totally against it.

 

She took that sentence as "I'll still be your friend AND 98% of things won't change so feel free to pretend like we're still together and call every night and expect me to pick up the phone and sit there for 2 hours talking to you".

 

She made a comment on the phone that she "isn't sure if it is the relationship or herself that is making her so miserable". I vote herself, but thats just me. She has the potential to be a great person, who could be very happy in life ... I've seen her very happy before, and it makes me smile thinking about it, but when she gets down on herself she gets reaaaaally down. I made sure I told her that. Sucks that her being very happy could be WITHOUT me, but, we'll see what the future holds .. I guess.

 

This'll be hard for me ... trying to move on with my life and not get sucked back into this. Trying to move on with my life and not be devastated if she starts seeing someone else and is happy.

[Ellie2006]

Hey cc2006,

 

Hope you're having a better day today ...

 

Listen, I hear ya about *trying* to move on so that we're not devastated to learn that our exes have moved on as well ...

 

I felt exactly the same way right after me and my ex broke up and this is why I told him i could NOT be friends w/ him at that juncture.

 

To me, a friend is not only someone who's there for you during the hard times, but also someone who can be happy with you during the good times.

 

I knew I could be there for him during the hard times, but I wasn't sure how I would handle hearing about the good things that would inevitably happen in his life (i.e. him meeting someone new).

 

Sorry that I got off on the tangent but my point is this: you cannot risk your own happiness and emotional stability to make someone else happy, which is, IMO, what happened in your relationship w. her.

 

If making HER happy makes you happy, then you guys wouldn't have broken up, right? BUT trying constantly to make HER happy was NOT making YOU happy. And that's the bottom line. You too have to be happy in this relationship. And you weren't, not all the time, anyway.

 

On a side note, if her calling you constantly to talk for TWO hours (my goodness! Are you guys actually *talking* for two hours OR are you listening to HER talk for two hours?!) is impeding your healing process, you NEED to tell her to back off. You have to look out for number one now.

 

Good luck and hang in there!

 

Ellie 1:

[cc2006]

Yeah, I agree. I'm pretty sure I could be around and still grab dinner some night with her or catch a movie sometimes. I could fall back into the 'friend' role I had with her before we started dating. The trouble would arise if she found someone else. At that point I'd have to walk away. I'd be happy for her, but hurt for me.

 

 

 

 

True. When she was happy, I was happy. When she was sad, depressive, crying, self-depricating and bashing herself into a little lump of sorrow ... I definetly didn't want to be around. I tried, but it happened so frequently that it started draining me. In the end it was annoying me. Constant cycle of self-loathing? No thanks, I need to step away.

 

 

 

 

lol .. 2 hours is nothing. We've talked on the phone for 4 before.

 

I talk alot. I'm wordy, and can go off on tangents and stuff like crazy. Odds are ya'll have noticed just from the fast that I sit here for 5 minutes at a time and write a page of text. If I have a topic and I have a thought on it I can talk and/or debate about it for hours. If I'm just tired and don't have anything to talk about, I wanna' get off the phone like its plague-ridden.

 

So, some phone conversations with me can last forever ... while others last mere minutes.

 

 

We didn't talk tonight. I spoke with a couple friends of mine and filled them in on the situation. Not surprisingly neither of them seemed shocked. Guess they saw it coming like I did.

 

 

Anyway .. thanks again for all your help. Weird that I just stumbled in here with a google search for "relationship forum" and have found it a really useful and friendly place.

 

Not many friendly places on the internet

 

~cc

[Ellie2006]

Hey cc2006,

Glad that I was able to help some!

Coincidentally, I also did a google search and stumbled accross this wonderful forum! Well, feel better and see you around ENA!