So called "Nice Guy" Syndrome

[goodquestion]

and actually, the girl that I am friendzoned by right now is using me like crazy, she invites me over gets me to do things for her all the time but doesn't give much back emotionally

 

I am so weak and emotionally weak, I am starting to worry about my health due to stress like the tied up stomach feeling I have throughout most every day lately.

 

You know what man, make yourself busy ... fold socks for crying out loud ... the next time she calls, say "I'm busy, sorry". You are not lying, immediately go and fold socks, or whatever, even if you weren't doing anything before. You need to break this cause-and-effect things that's going on with her.

 

later,peace

[goodquestion]

total wisdom girl, total wisdom

 

later,peace

[tylercdurden2004]

What I'm trying to say is that I don't want a guy who is so nice that he won't stand up for himself (I'm sure many women agree). I find that pathetic and, to be honest, you've lost my respect if you allow yourself to be pushed around or taken advantage of because you want to be nice. That's just not something I find attractive in anyone, male or female.

 

A man who does not stand up for himself cannot be expected to stand up for his woman or the "nest". Women you know this is true. Guys you need to learn.

[serve_the_people]

Men should be the leader in the relationship. They can be a nice leader, but they have to be the leader none the less. This means they always have to make sure their girlfriend / wife is feeling secure, and should always be willing to protect her. This means they have to take the initiative. This means being responsible, being a good provider, being wise with how much or how little money you have.

[Dating Coach]

You want to know what the problem is with the "Nice Guy"?

 

First off, the "Nice Guy" is simple a label put on certain types of guys, and it definitely doesn't describe "all guys who are nice". This is why the dudes who say "Girls don't like nice guys, they like jerks" are 100% WRONG. I am a nice guy, my fiance' wouldn't be with me if I wasn't. BUT I am not THAT type of "Nice Guy"

 

That type of "Nice Guy", the one's like monsieur, are guys that may be nice, but they are pushovers, they are needy, clingy, desperate, and they USE NICNESS TO ATTAIN THEIR GOAL!

One of the ladies on here described a date where the guy stopped his car, helped an old lady, and then got back in the car saying how he deserved a good citizen award. She dumped him. That guy may have been nice, and I am sure he probably complained to his friends afterwards that he wasn't "jerk" enough for her. Thats not true. That guy tried to buy his way in with niceness. monsieur, you do that too. You try to compensate with other areas you are lacking with niceness-and in your mind you think that the girls should see you as a nice guy and like you. Unfortunately, they don't owe you anything for it.

 

You do want to be a nice person and girls do appreciate this. BUT, you MUST have SELF RESPECT, SELF CONFIDENCE, and you must BE A CHALLENGE.

 

monsieur, do you think that you demonstrated to this girl that you have self respect? Well, you are her taxicab, her shoulder to cry on, her "buddy", etc. What do you get out of this? I am sure you don't do this for your other friends, not at this level. You do this stuff for her because you like her. What do you get out of this? Nothing. Yet you keep doing. So again, I ask you, do you think you demonstrate to her that you have self respect? You are willingly letting yourself be used and you get NOTHING, but you keep doing it. So the answer is no.

 

Do you think you demonstrate confidence? Do you think that you show her that you are a stand up guy? You do everything she says and you try your damnest to not make her mad. If you feel like she is going to be upset if you do something, you don't do it-even if you feel it's right. If you think that she might get mad if you say something, you don't say it. You buckle and cave in.

 

These things aren't "nice" these things are "weak". I've ALWAYS said, that in order to have a great relationship, you MUST be willing to end that relationship. What do I mean by that? If you are unable to end the relationship, then you become a victim, a pushoever, you can be manipulated, controlled, etc.

For instance. let's say this girl dated you. If she cheated on you, you would take her back. I know you would. You would never have a happy relationship because your partner would know that there are no consequences to violating that relationship because of you being a pushover.

I love my fiance', dearly, more than anything. If she cheated on me, I would boot her * * * out the door. Forever. She knows this. Do you think my fiance' is about to violate our relationship? No way. And you know what? She respects me for it. Would your partner respect you and think, "Oh I love him even more because he is sooo nice!" No way. She would take advantage of the situation again and again because you let it happen. She wouldn't respect you or your feelings because you don't respect them enough yourself.

 

As far as what you can do:

 

As Tyler stated, you've already taken the first step and acknowledged that there is a problem, but you've yet to take that second step and draw up the courage to do something.

 

As Tyler stated, changing the way you act is NOT changing who you are, you are merely changing a behavior. Just like a kid who behaves badly and you punish them. You aren't changing who they are, you are changing a bad behavior. You need to train yourself to control these behavoirs.

 

First and foremost, if you truly are ready to take the next step, google up the book: "How to win friends and influence people". I hear that this book is amazing. Haven't read it myself because I don't feel I need it. My life and friends are in a near perfect situation at this point and I don't need to change anything. However you do, so please look into that book and take your first step.

 

Second, go to places like link removed and search their articles, primarily ones by Doc Love. He has some great advice. You can buy his product if you want, PocoDiablo recommends it, but I found all I ever needed simply from the articles, and through practice.

 

Another great website is Poco's link removed

 

Also, like any skill, practice makes perfect. If you freeze up when talking to beautiful women, start practicing your approaches on women less attractive. It is a bit weird, I did it myself, but it DOES help.

 

If you need more advice please ask, but I feel that will be a good start for you, if you are ready to make the changes.

[arwen]

I agree with this distinction, and I think from this point on, it's not necessary to add gender to the debate. I was a pushover in the past, but also passive-aggressive. My behaviour changed because I climbed out of depression, got rid of most of my negative self image, and started to attract people who are better for me.

 

I'd like to add here, that when you behave a certain way, you also attract people who sort of stimulate this behaviour, which can end up in a vicious circle. The pattern of having very low thoughts about the self, can easily lead to behaviour that is considered 'push-over'. I attracted dominant types, that criticized a lot of what I did. This was in turn a confirmation of what I already thought about myself, and thereforeeee a safe zone for me.

 

This is contradictory, but I have experienced it exactly like that. It's terrible to have a low selfesteem, and think negatively about things. But in reality, I have found that I was attracted to people who confirmed those beliefs in some way, not by always putting me down. In a way, that is selfdestructive, although subconscious.

 

Monsieur, if you are reading this (I hope you still do), maybe this little story helps you. I was a nice girl in the negative sense of this 'nice guy debate'. I am still a nice girl, but I also know I have my own limits, my own goals, and I am comfortable with who I am.

 

Don't complain about what you feel others do to you. It helps to analyse your own internal process when another situation like with that girl, occurs. Suppose the following:

 

situation: the girl has dated a guy and he dumped her, now she calls you to cry and you have dinner, etc etc. A week later she forgets to call you for your b-day because she is madly in love with another person.

 

You will probably think: "I KNEW it, girls will NEVER find me attractive in that way, etc."

 

But because you don't want to lose the opportunity of this girl, you stay in touch, and do whatever she wants whenever she says, because at least then she will like you and maybe more. So your behaviour is the same as before.

 

By writing stuff like this down, a lot of automatic thoughts and automatic responses to those thoughts will occur. They are patterns. And by changing the behaviour, you can also change the automatic thought that lies behind the 'wrong' behaviour (staying a friend although you are being used).

 

Maybe it helps. Maybe it shed some light on the whole issue.

 

A lot of people are insecure and really nice at the same moment, the goal is to gain more confidence and stay the same person. Start liking who you are, and you will soon notice that others will start liking you too.

 

Ilse

[tylercdurden2004]

And these "dominant" types are "dominant" because....of their own low self esteem. Your own low self esteem in turn attracted others with low self esteem. you werent comfortable with a confident person and neither were they.

[arwen]

I was going to say exactly that Tyler. It's the same with people who are afraid of abandonment. They seem to attract people who are commitmentphobic.

 

It all agrees with a statement that someone made about some relationships that end. She said, it's not like it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to learn, so it also was meant to be (namely at that point in your life, for that exact lesson). I learned a lot about myself in these relationships. People who claim to be friendzoned, can learn equally from their friendships with people they'd in fact like to date.

 

Ilse

[monsieur]

situation: the girl has dated a guy and he dumped her, now she calls you to cry and you have dinner, etc etc. A week later she forgets to call you for your b-day because she is madly in love with another person.

 

You will probably think: "I KNEW it, girls will NEVER find me attractive in that way, etc."

 

But because you don't want to lose the opportunity of this girl, you stay in touch, and do whatever she wants whenever she says, because at least then she will like you and maybe more. So your behaviour is the same as before.

 

This hasn't happened, but it does sum up my persona quite well. I'm really close to the point of just giving up. But I've already checked my e-mail about 25 times this morning hoping she emailed me. I know one small contact from her and I am back hooked in hook line and sinker. I'm an emotional wreck all the time. She doesn't respect me much I don't think and I even get the feeling that sometimes she avoids me because she doesn't want to overencourage me, but when she needs something from me she contacts me.

 

I'm really screwed up.

[tylercdurden2004]

This hasn't happened, but it does sum up my persona quite well. I'm really close to the point of just giving up. But I've already checked my e-mail about 25 times this morning hoping she emailed me. I know one small contact from her and I am back hooked in hook line and sinker. I'm an emotional wreck all the time. She doesn't respect me much I don't think and I even get the feeling that sometimes she avoids me because she doesn't want to overencourage me, but when she needs something from me she contacts me.

 

I'm really screwed up.

 

Screwed up maybe. We only make changes when we hit that point of uncomfortableness, you just have a bigger limit to what you will take before you are comfortable. Some people can bang their heads onthe wall longer than other, but no one would mistake them as being noble or tough.

[heythere1234]

There are some very insightful people on this board*! I had previously thought that maybe I was the only one who recognized this syndrome, but I now see that many other's recognize it fully! That sort of makes me feel good, like it's not just me.

 

*The exception is MrDraw, because he didn't even seem to be talking about the same subject, he definitely doesn't 'get it'. Not trying to be mean about mrdraw, but he very well may call himself a 'nice guy'.

[heythere1234]

Diggity, borucia, tyler, you guys have it DOWN!

[serve_the_people]

Remember that you DON"T NEED A GIRLFRIEND TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. Never be needy. Find other things, apart from girls, that you are passionate about. What makes you excited? What will you confidently speak out for? Get into those things, and enjoy every moment of your life to the fullest. Be happy and excited about life everyday, even if you never find a girlfriend. You DON'T need one.

 

Also, practice. Go from girl to girl to girl. Take lots of girls on dates until you develop the right words, and can express yourself confidently. And never fear rejection. Okay, I will tell you something. I was at salsa dance club a while ago, and I asked some girls to ask. Of the 12 girls I asked, 9 of them rejected me. I was rejected 9 times. But I never gave up, and eventually I asked this super super hot girl to dance, and she said yes !!!! So don't worry about being rejected. If a girl rejects you, just learn from it, and keep going from girl to girl until you find one that is right for you !!!!

[heythere1234]

geez, you're sooo right serve the people! you have the right attitude. Women really do admire a man who can go ahead and take a little rejection like a man, pick HIMSELF up, dust HIMSELF off, and MOVE ON! I'm not being sarcastic, it is admirable. It seems like over the last couple of decades men (SOME men..) have gotten so timid and whiney. How does a girl want that?? It's ok if a girl turns you down, you just have to keep trying till you meet one who likes you.

 

That said if a girl thinks she's not special because she sees a guy doing too much of that, that could hurt his chances too.

[monsieur]

yeah, I have a real problem with rejection too, I don't handle it very well, one small rejection is enough to get me to withdraw completely for a very long time and the feelings of self doubt and unworthiness flows in in waves.

 

I've mostly made an unconscious decision to avoid rejection at all costs by not taking a chance in the first place.

[heythere1234]

man monsuer, you need to stop doing that! I know it can be hard, but you as a man must put up a brave face (fake it till ya feel it!). Chicks don't dig pouty wimpy guys. Sorry, but it's true!

[Dating Coach]

monsieur, in my signiture i provided a link to a thread I started on these forums offering Dating Advice for Men. Read it. It may help.

[SilverManic]

yes but then thats not always true my now ex said yesterday when I spoke to him 'the nice guys always finish last' I felt like saying oh ffs guit trip?

Ok on to a small vent.... sometimes people can not help their feelings and that does not mean that girls don't like nice guys. It just means that maybe that person wasn't right.

~S.

[tylercdurden2004]

yes but then thats not always true my now ex said yesterday when I spoke to him 'the nice guys always finish last' I felt like saying oh ffs guit trip?

Ok on to a small vent.... sometimes people can not help their feelings and that does not mean that girls don't like nice guys. It just means that maybe that person wasn't right.

~S.

 

Love thats not the issue. the issue is the what nice guys definition of nice is.

[heythere1234]

Love thats not the issue. the issue is the what nice guys definition of nice is.

 

Right.. I kind of didn't quite understand that post either.

[KileOriginal]

Look, lets cut to the chase here. We can all agree that woman are blood thirsty beast that devour the hearts of young men.

[tylercdurden2004]

Look, lets cut to the chase here. We can all agree that woman are blood thirsty beast that devour the hearts of young men.

 

True but remember even the aged arent safe.

[heythere1234]

Sheeesh, I do know you're kidding kile...but even that is another example of things men say when they're trying to play the "poor little victim" card. You men need to buck up. (no offense!)

[heythere1234]

I didn't get that, but I guess that's ok.

[tylercdurden2004]

I didn't get that, but I guess that's ok.

 

Huh........