Have you ever tried to sell a diamond?

[RandomAdvisor]

So, link removed

 

 

That article is very old. Actually, as old as I am. I was born in the same month that article was first printed 24 years ago in 1982. It is meticulously detailed, very informative, and just as accurate today as it was when it was first written. It's a very long read, and I actually have read the whole thing. I would recommend it to anyone if you have the time, or at least the first four pages. The last three pages detail threats to the diamond industry which never materialized. If you don't have time to read it though, I'll try and give you the short version.

 

Today diamonds are widely recognized as being highly valuable, synonymous with displays of love, and a virtual necessity to get engaged and married. This was not always the case. In its rise to power the Deer Beers diamond company changed all of that with what is probably the most successful advertising campaign in history. The article details how De Beers shaped public opinion starting in earnest in the 1930's. Prior to the late 30's diamonds were used in engagement rings but their use wasn't universal. But they were pushed heavily by De Beers. In a brilliant advertising move similar to common practice today, De Beers paid to make sure that the prime character in romance movies received a diamond ring. They also made sure that the actresses wore their big diamond rings when they were in public. That, combined with more traditional advertisements and soon having a large diamond was seen as a necessity to prove love and get engaged.

 

But then mines with smaller diamonds were found. No more large ones. Solution? Advertising that pushed the cut, clarity, and overall quality of a diamond rather than just the size. Later on there was a problem with the original generation of diamond recipients no longer needing them (death, divorce), and the diamond rings were being passed down. This would have killed the diamond industry. Solution? Advertising that stressed "A diamond is forever." As in, it's forever for the person who receives it, and if a man really really loves a woman he will buy a diamond just for her rather than settling for some hand me down.

 

Throughout De Beers has successfully cultivated the false notion that diamonds are rare. They aren't! Their supply is tightly regulated by a monopoly. If diamonds were subject to the kinds of supply and demand laws that other commodities are, and their supply wasn't tightly controlled by a cartel the price would crash. Contrary to popular belief, diamonds also are not particularly rare as gemstones go. Other precious stones like rubies and emeralds are more difficult to find.

 

Page four of the article has some funny stories about people who tried to sell their diamonds. News papers bought diamonds as an experiment and tried to sell them years later. They proved to be terrible investments, to put it mildly.

 

I'm currently thinking about getting engaged, and doing preliminary ring browsing and research. I already had the perception that diamonds were overpriced and un necessary. Now, I absolutely refuse to buy a diamond engagement ring. If my girl gets an engagement ring, it wont be a diamond. It will most likely be an emerald. I've got quite a bit of money saved in the bank, and I'm more than happy to spend a couple of thousand on a ring for my girlfriend because I know she deserves it. It just wont be a diamond.

 

What is everyone's thoughts on this? Women, do you absolutely positively have to have a diamond engagement ring? Why or why not? Have your views been changed by the information contained in that article?

 

Men, what are your thoughts on diamonds? Would you ever consider getting the woman you wanted to marry a stone other than a diamond?

[annie24]

yes, actually, I've done a significant amount of research on this also. I actually wrote some term papers on it!!! I really love diamonds, but I don't like the way they've been harvested.

 

You can also get some man-made diamonds, the price is much lower, and they are still chemically diamonds. Or, like you said, you can get a ruby or an emerald, I think that's lovely also.

 

what would she think? ultimately, it will be the ring she will wear for the rest of her life...

[Beyondthesea]

Personally I know a lot of women who were given engagement rings that were not diamonds and they are really valued to the women because they are so unique.

 

Myself I'm a diamond girl. I would rather have the diamond. It all depends upon what you think she wants

 

Reading the article wouldn't change my mind at all, I just like them

[RandomAdvisor]

You can also get some man-made diamonds, the price is much lower, and they are still chemically diamonds.

 

Yeah, I read an article about that a couple of years ago. That is the more current threat to the diamond industry. The machines that can manufacture diamonds in about two weeks, and the diamonds they make are bigger and of higher quality than diamonds made in nature over long periods of time. They are absolutely indistinguishable from natural diamonds. They're real diamonds in every sense of the word.

 

I'll try and find a link to an article about them later. Or maybe someone else can...

[RandomAdvisor]

Myself I'm a diamond girl...Reading the article wouldn't change my mind at all, I just like them

 

This is exactly the kind of discussion I'd like to have. What is it about diamonds that makes you prefer them over other stones?

[annie24]

Personally I know a lot of women who were given engagement rings that were not diamonds and they are really valued to the women because they are so unique.

 

Myself I'm a diamond girl. I would rather have the diamond. It all depends upon what you think she wants

 

Reading the article wouldn't change my mind at all, I just like them

 

I know - I still love diamonds too!

 

But.... there are other articles I read, like one in National Geographic a few years ago.

 

A lot of people in Africa, like Sierra Leone, have been forced into virtual slave labor to collect diamonds to fund civil wars. People have had their limbs chopped off as "examples" for the others, not to misbehave.

 

Yes, this is all still going on.

 

The $2000 diamond that you buy.... it was purchased from the person who found it for about $5.

 

It is true, diamonds are a very bloody and brutal industry, maybe that isn't a good symbol of marriage.

[annie24]

This is exactly the kind of discussion I'd like to have. What is it about diamonds that makes you prefer them over other stones?

 

well, because they are clear in color, they match with every outfit. The sparkle is very very nice. They are the hardest substance known, I value them for that.

 

I guess that the advertizers have cleverly linked diamonds with eternal love.

[RandomAdvisor]

link removed

 

link removed

 

I think it's important to note that not all diamonds are "blood" or "conflict" diamonds, but many of them are.

 

The second link is to a short article on the man made diamonds. You can do a google search for "conflict diamonds" or "cultured diamonds" if you want to learn more about either topic. The original article I linked doesnt' discuss either one of these topics.

[annie24]

yes, actually, that is a nice article.

 

I don't know if I want an engagement ring. I would like a wedding ring, however, that is an eternity ring (diamonds all the way around). It's pretty pricey though, so I'd rather roll the costs together. LOL.

 

I think that man-made diamonds are a good way to go. I especially like it because I'm a scientist, and it symbolizes man's scientific progress.

[RayKay]

Yeah, I too did studies on diamond mining that focused on the human rights abuses around them.

 

I think diamonds are overrated, now you CAN get diamonds that are made fairly that come from places such as well..Canada...but they tend to be more expensive. Man-made in my opinion IS a perfectly acceptable option.

 

You could look at even Moissanite, Ruby's, Emeralds - it's just important to pick a stronger rock. Pearls for example or opals are very beautiful, but also very delicate and may have to be replaced a few times.

 

I personally do like diamonds, because they are clear, and sparkly..lthey just go with much more and catch the light nicely (so is cubic zirconia I guess!). For me a diamond would be nice as I have a few other gems like rubies and topaz, but no diamonds, and I don't expect ever to get one except for something like a engagement ring (but would like a small one since I don't like HUGE rocks!) But honestly, I also love many other stones. I completely trust my partner would pick out the right ring for me, and I would be thrilled with it, diamond or not, because of the symbol of it. If he did go diamond though, I would prefer man made - definitely

 

I have a friend whom got a complete jade ring as her wedding ring, and her partner too, as one of them had allergies to gold and silver. And they absolutely love them.

[Beyondthesea]

I agree with Annie. I like them because they sparkle and match every outfit.

[RandomAdvisor]

I personally do like diamonds, because they are clear, and sparkly..lthey just go with much more and catch the light nicely (so is cubic zirconia I guess!).

 

That's a good point that I'd put to all the diamond enthusiasts. If it's just about the look of the stone, then why aren't cubic zirconias just as good?

 

I'm a little surprised there aren't any women jumping in this thread to adamently defend their precious diamonds. Maybe it's too early on a Sunday morning still.

 

 

 

I don't expect ever to get one except for something like a engagement ring (but would like a small one since I don't like HUGE rocks!)

 

You mean like the link removed that Paris Hilton had? It was so big she had to have it replaced - the weight from it was hurting her finger.

[KweenofDenyl]

Wow, some_guy282, let me just say that I think your girlfriend is one lucky woman!

 

I absolutely do not want a diamond--as a boycott on the industry for transgressions past and present.

 

Also, I'm fabulous and unique and I need jewelry that says so

You might want to check out the Yogo Sapphire.

 

I love nice things. If you were to take me to any kind of store and remove the price tags from everything, I would, without a doubt, still pick the most expensive thing in the store. But here's my problem: I would feel eternally guilty wearing something on my body whose cost could feed a small third world country for a day. I'm not saying I wouldn't want a ring, but I would prefer something less conspicuous that meant something to me over size/cost.

 

I love pretty sparkly things but the cost to my values would just be too great.

[RayKay]

That's a good point that I'd put to all the diamond enthusiasts. If it's just about the look of the stone, then why aren't cubic zirconias just as good?

I think it's a quality thing personally. I would rather have a man-made diamond, an ruby, a blue topaz or something over a cubic zirconia. A lot of times women will take the original diamond out depending on the size and put a cubc zirconia in for theft reasons and put diamond somewhere safe....hmmm...so maybe save the hassle...lol.

 

But I guess any girl can go out and buy cubic zirconia's....not diamonds! They also just have a bad rap to them. I think a diamond ring is thought of as an investment, to show your seriousness about getting married. A cubic z...well, I think socially it is seen as being cheap and a sign you are not worth the investment?

 

Remember too, the diamond industry has spent decades plugging it into people's heads it's the sybol of forever...it's hard for some to think independent of that!

 

 

 

You mean like the link removed that Paris Hilton had? It was so big she had to have it replaced - the weight from it was hurting her finger.

Ugh, I just think they look too..I don't know...I just like something less HUGE, and how the heck would I fit my bike gloves over one??? LOL

[KweenofDenyl]

That's a good point that I'd put to all the diamond enthusiasts. If it's just about the look of the stone, then why aren't cubic zirconias just as good?

 

I have two sisters who feel the same way I do. One has a sapphire and the other cubic zirconia. CZ Sister and mate decided to put the money they would have spent on the ring into a really fab vacation.

[RandomAdvisor]

Wow, some_guy282, let me just say that I think your girlfriend is one lucky woman!

You can say that only because you havn't seen me naked.

 

I think socially it is seen as being cheap and a sign you are not worth the investment?

There's a word that gets to the heart of the matter. "Socially."

 

Remember too, the diamond industry has spent centuries plugging it into people's heads it's the sybol of forever...it's hard for some to think independent of that!

Actually this has only been going on in earnest since 1938. Prior to that time a survey conducted by De Beers revealed that the average person thought of diamonds as trinkets of the rich. But they changed that very, very quickly with advertising.

 

In Japan, they ended 1,500 year old wedding/engagement traditions in less than a decade. It's all in the article I started this post with, very interesting stuff.

 

I have two sisters who feel the same way I do. One has a sapphire and the other cubic zirconia. CZ Sister and mate decided to put the money they would have spent on the ring into a really fab vacation.

If things don't work out between me and my GF, I'll have to look you or one of your sisters up.

[RayKay]

Well, I knew it wasn't literally centuries lol, just was trying to get accross how long it seems they have plugged it! Remember that any woman TODAY has basically grown up with seeing diamonds everywhere and taught about it being a 'womans best friend'. I actually had intended to put in decades...huh.

[RandomAdvisor]

Yeah. It's been going on for so long that the impression is there that it's been like this forever, and that diamonds have always been so valuable and symbols of love.

 

Ah, the power of marketing.

[HappyKat]

I think diamonds are both overrated and overpriced!

 

Sure, it would sweep me away to be given a gorgeous & expensive engagement ring--because that's the 'conditioned response' thanks to many years' exposure to the De Beers commercials. Remember, 2 months' salary is what I'm supposed to be "worth!" Jeepers! Guess I'd better do a credit check on all my future dates...

 

A diamond might last forever, but a relationship can only last a lifetime (at best.) Why not put an equivalent amount into a joint retirement account or down payment on a home?

 

Also, check into sapphires--they come in every color of the rainbow, even colorless, and are less fragile than emeralds, opals, rubies...Or, how about carved gold bands? Very beautiful, no stones to possibly lose.

 

Best of luck on your (maybe?) engagement!

[annie24]

CZs don't look as good when they are large. When they are small, they really look similar to diamonds. when large, it becomes obvious by the sparkle that they are not. That are also quite chemically different.

 

Furthermore, they get "cloudy" easily. If you wear CZ earrings for a few weeks, they get a film over them quickly if you don't clean them.

[Luciana]

Someguy, I am totally with you on this. I know better. As an atheist and someone who sees through lies (including the Medical Insurance lies) I have always known how diamonds were overrated.

 

 

I have a beautiful moissanite engagement ring, 2.5 carats. It is identical to a diamond and has fooled 100% of the jewelers I took it to.

 

I would not throw away money on diamonds.

 

My favorite sites: link removed

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[RandomAdvisor]

Bah. You girls are no fun! All smart and independent and free thinking... WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU ALL!!

 

 

I'm glad you mention the websites Lucianna. This is a little off topic from the whole diamond bashing thing, but I came accross the website of a place that sells Sapphire and Emerald engagement rings, at prices I was planning on spending. The pictures look great. Has anyone ever bought an engagement ring online? I buy lots of things online, but it seems strange to buy an engagement ring online...

[Beyondthesea]

I wouldn't think it was odd to buy an engagement ring online, provided it wasn't worth 10,000 bucks or something like that. I would be a bit careful if that was the case.

 

Diamonds still have my vote, sorry!

[melrich]

If it's just about the look of the stone, then why aren't cubic zirconias just as good?

 

Whilst I think you make some great points about the worth of diamonds, I think you can make similar on just about any luxury item.

 

Why buy a mechanical watch? They are not as accuarte as quartz, they are 5 times as expensive, look exactly the same, require constant servicing etc. But I know so many men (myself included) who like to reward themselves with a mechanical watch.

 

You are absolutely right. Diamonds are a terrible investment, retail mark ups are huge and resale values are poor. But in the same way that every Hermes crocodile skin handbag is unique (and at $15,000 it would want to be) so is every diamond. And the arguments about the "real" value of diamonds can also be made about gold.

 

Buying a diamond is an aspirational purchase, not an investment and aspirational purchases are rarely concerned with the "inherent" value of the purchased object.

 

Also don't forget that there are many different grades of diamonds. The ones you see in franchise jewellery stores are often very poor grade Indian diamonds or the low grade stock from Sth Africa and Australia.

 

Very high grade diamonds do actually hold their value reasonably well when compared to other precious gems and that is because they are in fact rarer.

 

At the end of the day, the price of all goods is determined somewhat by supply and demand. De Beers "marketing" strategies and supply control is no different to the practices many companies employ to maintain the value of their products. The most obvious example of controlled supply is oil.

 

The methods of De Beers mining of diamonds is a whole other matter. If it is that which mainly concerns you, buy Australian diamonds.

[RandomAdvisor]

At the end of the day, the price of all goods is determined somewhat by supply and demand. De Beers "marketing" strategies and supply control is no different to the practices many companies employ to maintain the value of their products. The most obvious example of controlled supply is oil.

 

What irks me about De Beers and their diamonds is that they created an absolutely huge demand for what had previously been a relatively useless item. You call diamonds a luxory item, but here in the US I think they're more of a semi luxory item. The vast majority of adults get married at some point in their life, and an engagement is sure to precede the marriage. De Beers has been so successful at imprinting upon the public consciousness that the bride to be must get a diamond. The women on this board are evidence things are changing somewhat though.

 

I understand what you're saying about other items and controlled supply, but I don't think oil is a good example. OPEC does what it can but it doesn't control all the oil. And at least oil has many different practical uses.