How do I proceed?

[poke]

I agree she is being selfish... I'm still not convinced of her reasons for doing this though, what I've read here still makes me think shes not a complete goner.

 

Its hard to say for sure after just reading a few lines, but thats what my guts says. I guess its up to the man on the spot to decide, a job I do not envy.

[desdichado]

I don't think it is possible for me to just give up. I think I will proceed by firstly not calling her unless she calls me. When we are talking I will try my best to keep things off of our relationship. The one thing I may say to her is that I am not mad about her feelings, but that the way she chooses to deal with them will determine how I feel about the situation.

 

She has been asking me why I am not angry. The truth is I understand her feeling 100%, just that I think she is handling it in a manner which is unfair. Wondering whether you might be happy with another person, I feel, is totally natural. I do it often. I guess I just realize that I am already happy where I am.

 

I will give up when she tells me it is over. Or when I've finally had enough of it. I cant imagine this limbo lasting more then a couple more weeks in either scenario.

[Relationship Coach]

desdichado,

 

You don't feel that you can give up because she is keeping you in limbo. The very thing you need in order to give up is what she's holding you hostage with. I understand your love and desire for her. I know the feeling of letting go is a hard thing to do but let's face it, you are not happy with the way things are and when she moves 100 miles away, it will just get worse. I respect the fact that you want to hang in there until your finger nails bleed but try to look at this from an outsiders perspective. This not about how you feel, no one is questioning that, this is about how she is feeling. She asks about your lack of anger because she knows she is being unfair to you, this is her guilt talking. When two people love each other and are committed to the relationship, they don't sit around and think about if they could be happier with someone else, and you say you do it often. Either you are not happy being with her or you are trying to justify her actions, either way this is a major issue!

 

Going from being engaged to "I just love you as a best friend" is a dramatic change in feelings that did not happen over night! The fact that the two of you are not together as in residing with each other, you have no idea what she has been doing and who she is with.

 

2 weeks ago, just after she graduated, she came to visit me. She told me that she doesn't feel the same towards me anymore. She said that she loves me, but as a best friend. She told me that she thinks we should break up. We hung out the whole weekend basically crying together. She says that she met some guy and it made her wonder if she could be happier with someone else. Ever since that thought came into her mind she has been extremely depressed.

 

 

There may be those who will tell you to hang in there and don't give up but I hardly think by her actions and statements that she is simply at a "crossroad". They may offer that opinion to you because they are in a similar situation as yours and just do not want to except that for all practical purposes their relationship is over as well. In my professional opinion and I counsel people for a living, she is letting you go gently while keeping the door open in case she doesn't find what she's looking for. Are you willing to settle for being second choice? This is like being picked last for a pick up game of basketball. Others doubt your ability and potential but in this situation this is coming from someone who used to be in love with you romantically and now just wants to be friends! She questioned her love because she strayed and realized if it was true love, she wouldn't desire someone else. This an unbiased opinion and I have no motive other than to help you understand what is taking place here.

 

As I said before, I know how hard this is but you are making it harder by clinging to false hope. I guess my question to you is, why would you want to wait around to let her explore other potential lovers? If she did return to you, could you trust her again? She has broken off the engagement, what stronger message do you need?

[desdichado]

Well, I believe there are tons of people out there that could be happy with one another. I dont think there is "the one." Thats why I sometimes think I could be happy with other people. Im sure I could be happy with alot of people actually. Its just a bummer that I now have to look for another person. Although Ive said there are multiple people out there I could be happy with... It took me a very long time to find the first one. I look back on the times where I was dating, and I think to myself "man that sucked." I guess I was ready to settle down because Ive already dated a ton of girls, and found one that I could be happy with long term.

 

I guess Im really afraid of starting to look again. I mean, I probably dated 50-60 girls just to find one good one. How many more will I need to date=( I suppse she is just the opposite of me. She has been in 3 relationships that have spanned a total of 9 years! She was dumped by the other 2. I guess she must feel that she is missing out on all the "fun" that people like me had when they were dating.

 

Not only that, I love her. It will be a long time before I find someone that I love and that loves me back=(

[desdichado]

Well and also she has said she wants to try and make things work. I asked her if there was a way she could maintain her independence while staying with me at the same time. She said she doesnt know, and she is waiting until she has some time alone to think things through.

 

I think that her keeping independence and us having fun together will be key in trying to make things work.

[desdichado]

She has also told me that we need to go on a date sometime. I guess we both want to rekindle what we had, Im afraid its going to be far to awkward to do fully though. Hopefully we can just go have fun.

[DN]

What does she mean by 'independence'. That sounds suspiciously as if she wants the freedom to date other people. And even if that is not what she means it does not sound to me as if she wants a relationship so much as a stand-by comfort zone.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

As harsh as it may seem. I think Relationship Coach is right on the money. God I only wish he was around on this site when I was trying to get my ex back more than a year ago. The smartest thing I could have done would have been to break contact and learn to love myself again. I let my ex completely control me with "maybes" and "we'll sees".

 

Now, she's 2000 KMs away from me. Mostly because I know now that I pushed her away. I know I'm not solely to blame, but I do have to accept that my actions sealed my fate. Heck, even now, she's still asking me to wait to make up her mind. Sorry, that control is gone. I love myself and know my own self worth. Besides, there are plenty of women out there who really appreciate a guy like me. I'd bet cold hard cash that it's the same for you.

 

Do yourself and her a big favor. Give her what she wants. Give her the freedom she's asking for. If you truly do love her, you will. If it's obsession, then you'll keep on doing what you're doing. Basically, right now you're making your judgements with your feelings. Use your head instead. Trust me I know how hard that is, but in the end you'll be happier for it.

 

Take care

[desdichado]

well, her dad has always told her what to do. He has told her what kind of car to buy, what kind of apartment to rent, what school to go to, and so forth.

 

With me I try to give her advice. It seems to her like I am telling her what to do. Even though when she talks to me about a choice she has to make it seems like she is asking me for advice, apparently she feels like Im pressuring her. She says even if Im not around she asks herself "what would (me) want me to do?" I told her that I think that would stink to have to think like that and that she shouldnt have to feel that way.

 

I think this is one of our major issues. I also said that I think it would be important for me to stop pressuring her. She said "don't change for me" I said " I am changing in order to better all my relationships" which is true. I guess I pressure people to do things too much. To me it seems like Im reasoning with them, apparently I am over bearing.

[RayKay]

RC is right on.

 

Desh.....most of us HAVE been where you are, some of us have even been your girlfriend in some way or another in being the one doing the dumping, and being wishy washy. And I can say that from that experience, most of us know very very well that what she is doing has nothing to do with still wanting to give it a go, or she would be there, in counselling, working on it with you.

 

I agree also, that there is a sign when you are wondering if you could be with someone else. I have dated a few too, and been in some long term relationships. And sometimes wondered that too. But then when I met my current partner, I realized he was the one that I had been "wondering about" and knowing there was someone else....because with him, I have never had a single doubt, even when we have gone through some rough periods, we have NEVER questioned we are meant to be together. And we work through things together. Her keeping you near, is not to hurt you, but it's not to try again either (unless she has no other options, and who wants to be the consolation prize?).

[desdichado]

She says she doesnt have any feelings right now, she is so depressed. She said she felt so guilty after thinking about another guy, that it made her depressed. She said that after that she started not feeling the same way about me anymore.

 

She wants to try and work things out, but ill tell her only if she wants to whole heartedly. I guess noone here will be able to convince me its all over until she says forsure that it is. Or until she says she is going to date other people... then i'm definitely moving on.

[RayKay]

Do you think she will tell you if she dates other people, or is intimate with others?

 

I know in my last breakup we attempted to be friends, but he hid that sort of thing from me as he did not want to hurt me....all the while also saying that he did "love me" but was not "in love" but was not closed off to idea of doing something together again and going on "dates" with me.

 

You are letting her still dictate your healing, according to her timeline.

 

Trust me, if she is going to come back, she won't 'decide not to' just because you are moving on. What motivation is there for her to act and work on things when you are waiting for her? I know couples whom reconciled, and in every case it happened not while the person was "waiting" but after they had both healed and moved forward with their lives.

[desdichado]

Its just that I get alot of different type of advice from different types of people. I can always move on later. I am positive I can. I don't want to jump the gun and miss out in case someone here gives me bad advice.

 

Im not saying your advice is invalid. I guess my point is that this board is full of people that have had unsuccessful relationships. Thats what makes it the hardest to follow someones advice for me.

 

I really apologize if this seems mean. I just don't really know anything about anyone here accept that most posts are about people having relationship problems. Again I hope I havent been rude.

 

Also I really do apreciate your advice! Im probably just in denial. Its easier to believe in things you want to be true I guess.

[RayKay]

Its just that I get alot of different type of advice from different types of people. I can always move on later. I am positive I can. I don't want to jump the gun and miss out in case someone here gives me bad advice.

 

Im not saying your advice is invalid. I guess my point is that this board is full of people that have had unsuccessful relationships. Thats what makes it the hardest to follow someones advice for me.

 

I really apologize if this seems mean. I just don't really know anything about anyone here accept that most posts are about people having relationship problems. Again I hope I havent been rude.

 

Also I really do apreciate your advice! Im probably just in denial. Its easier to believe in things you want to be true I guess.

 

Also realize...the board is full of people IN successful relationships, whom HAVE had the experience of broken ones. RC, myself, DN, whom have posted here are all in long term relationships, or marriage.

 

I came here when I had problems with a past breakup. I healed, moved on, and found love again...with someone whom definitely wants to be with me, and we are planning a future TOGETHER. We make decisions on our future together, have no doubts about our love, and wanting to be with each other, good and bad times alike. RC is a counsellor, and has survived a divorce and is remarried. DN has been married more years then I have been alive! Many of us on this board advise, because we have learned from our experiences - like the one you are in. I have never advised total NC, but I DO advise limited contact and moving forward. Unless she TELLS YOU lets get back together and work on it, it's all talk.

 

I suggest you read Hope75's post for what getting back together is like (she moved on...moved back in with her parents, healed, and got back together) versus cpxism's thread (he held on a long time, as she made him promises of wanting to work things out, being confused, just wait a while longer)....both are veterans around here, with very different outcomes.

 

You do get conflicting advice, and often those whom will advise you to hang in there, are those whom are "hanging in there" themselves and at the same stage as you are. They cannot say different, because that would make them wrong too.

 

You can of course do whatever you like, I just don't want to see you hurt yourself, or hold on to hope so badly that it blinds you to reality.

[desdichado]

Thanks RayKay, I see where your getting at. Your points are certainly valid. I guess I can't help myself but to hope=(

 

Everything you described to me so far about other peoples happy relationship is the same as ours was. When we got engaged, both of us "knew" we were meant to be together. I mean, she used to say we were soulmates. I used to think we were. I guess its pathetic that I still do and she is moving in a different direction.

[Relationship Coach]

desdichado,

 

I'm not saying your advice is invalid. I guess my point is that this board is full of people that have had unsuccessful relationships. That's what makes it the hardest to follow someone's advice for me.

 

 

This is one of the most ignorant statements you've made thus far! There are people here by choice willing to help you go through what they have already been through. You see when you are "in" the middle of this situation, you are not thinking clearly or rationally, you are thinking emotionally. My god man didn't you say that you were an engineer? Use some analytical thinking here and remove your feelings from the equation for just one second.

 

I make a great living doing what I do and I would assume that with my success rate I'm pretty darn good at it. I have been married twice and have even been bankrupt, does that mean I can't balance my checkbook? NO! Many experts in my field have been through their own personal failures, yet they are still great at what they do. Learning from others mistakes and experiences is a great benefit of this site.

 

Your problem is, you don't like what you are hearing so in turn you want to discredit what has been said by others. This is a perfect example of how you are in denial as to what she is doing. Just like trying to justify why or how she could be wondering about being happy with someone else. If she isn't the "one" why in world are you so caught up in this?

 

The only advice you want is one that supports your actions, you can get that by standing in front of a mirror. What you want to hear and what you need to hear are two different things.

 

 

First, I would like to thank you for such a wonderful forum. Of all the many many websites I have looked to for advice, yours seems the most genuine.

 

Make up your mind!

 

Well said RayKay!

 

Desh, listen to the song "Hope" by Shaggy, make it your theme song, I did until I realized I was wasting the best years of my life, hanging on to hope instead of living.

[desdichado]

Keep in mind we have ldr like 1/3 of the year. So this last time we were apart is when we have both thought we could be happy with more then 1 person. I mean seriously. There are over 6 BILLION people in the world. I have only been to 2 countries. The US and Canada. So assuming I met like 1% of all the people in those 2 countries... thatd be like what 4 million people. 4 million is about 1 in 1500 people in the world I have met.... not that great of odds for meeting the "one" if that concept is true.

 

not to mention there is no way Ive met 4 million people.

[desdichado]

Relationship Coach, In no way am I trying to discredit you. My own mother is a counselor. The way she has explained it to me is that a counselor is there to listen. I have all the respect in the world for what you do.

 

You are right, Id prefer to listen to someone who has advice that suits me. I am not denying that.

 

I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here, I am just trying to explain to you guys how it might be hard for me to trust everyone here.

 

Also, have you ever tried to explain a situation, but there are too many factors to let the person you are explaining them to be able to contemplate them all? Or have you had people who think they understand you but you know they really dont. All Im saying is that I have to take all advice from everyone (not just on this forum) with a grain of salt.

 

Everyone here is right that I have to worry about myself. I agree 100%. Its just SOOOOOO hard=(

 

I truelly do apreciate everyones opinions. I guess I shouldnt have made the previous post. I guess everything I say is purely rationalization.

[Relationship Coach]

I must be working too hard because I'm doing a lot more than listening in my practice! My dog calks her head and listens to me and I truly believe that my boston fern listens to me too! The last time I looked at my own job description it encompassed much more and helping people to see what they cannot is one of them!

 

Also, have you ever tried to explain a situation, but there are too many factors to let the person you are explaining them to be able to contemplate them all? Or have you had people who think they understand you but you know they really dont. All Im saying is that I have to take all advice from everyone (not just on this forum) with a grain of salt.

 

 

You titled your thread...How do I proceed? Not, Do you all agree with me?

 

We can only go by what you tell us but the basics have spelled it out pretty clearly to the majority here. A grain of salt means nothing unless it's in your eye.

[desdichado]

RC,

 

I think your a great person to help people here on your spare time. Thansk for helping me.

[poke]

...RC is a counsellor, and has survived a divorce and is remarried. DN has been married more years then I have been alive! Many of us on this board advise, because we have learned from our experiences - like the one you are in...

 

...You do get conflicting advice, and often those whom will advise you to hang in there, are those whom are "hanging in there" themselves and at the same stage as you are. They cannot say different, because that would make them wrong too...

 

As I've been one of the very few in this thread to give advice that conflicts with some of the more seasoned members, I guess I've taken these comments as largely referring to me.

 

The first comment quoted above concerns me, as althought it is a very good idea to be careful who you take advice from, the implication is that if you are RC, DN or RayKay then the advice should not be questioned.

 

The second comment infers that if someone gives differing advice, it can just be written of as advice from someone who is in the same situation and can't say anything different.

 

In an effort to correct some of the misconceptions about who might be posting, I will state my background. I've had a significant amount of counselling training though volunteer organisations. I have on a volunteer basis helped a range of people from teens through to married couples. I have also worked with people who were suicidal during relationship issues. I do not pretend to have professional level education in this area, but consider myself reasonably informed, and wherever possible encourage people to enter into formal counselling with a suitably qualified person.

 

I've been with my partner for almost 12 years, and have been married for 8. 3 years ago, my life entered a period which for me was a hell I would not wish on my worst enemy. It took me two years to find my way back to happiness. I did that not only with the assistance of counsellors and therapists (even a clinical psyc at one point), but with other people offering their advice (so called non skilled people, and even some in similar situations). I found that on numerous occasions the professional skilled people were just flat out wrong in their advice. This is not a dig at professional counsellors, as they can't be right 100% of the time, and they perform a fantastic service.

 

My point desdichado is, don't just listen to advice and take it as gospel based on "credentials" although checking credentials is a good place to start when looking for advice. Listen to what people say, then question it. Apply it to your situation in a hypothetical scenario, and if your not convinced that it is right for you, then ask questions, clarify, and make your own mind up. The person giving that advice can not fully 100% understand your situation as you see it, there are just too many variables to consider, so in the end, you have to decide what is right for you.

 

In the end, I do agree with RayKay that limited contact is probably the best middle ground. The best advice I can give you (which is totally based on my own experiences) is be aware of how low / depressed you are feeling, and if your not coping, and your getting more down then seek help before it gets too bad. IMHO if your not coping with the situation then less contact with your partner is beter than more.

 

just m2c take it or leave it...

[Relationship Coach]

poke,

 

The first comment quoted above concerns me, as althought it is a very good idea to be careful who you take advice from, the implication is that if you are RC, DN or RayKay then the advice should not be questioned.

 

 

 

Implication? No, it simply states that we have experience in dealing with issues such as this. Anyone can agree or disagree with our advice or view points. This forum is not based around one person or any one group of people, it's about helping others.

 

In an effort to correct some of the misconceptions about who might be posting, I will state my background. I've had a significant amount of counselling training though volunteer organisations. I have on a volunteer basis helped a range of people from teens through to married couples. I have also worked with people who were suicidal during relationship issues. I do not pretend to have professional level education in this area, but consider myself reasonably informed, and wherever possible encourage people to enter into formal counselling with a suitably qualified person.

 

 

I don't think anyone here thought you were pretending to have a "professional level of education" in any particular area. I have read through your posts and never once made that assumption. You were cheated on as many here have been and suffered with the pains of dealing with it. I have offered advice and viewpoints that were opposite of others here, including RayKay and DN. Although I respect them greatly and do find myself agreeing with them frequently, I would be doing this forum a disservice by not posting my advice and opinions, as would any other member.

 

What RayKay and I were pointing out is when someone posts a thread about their individual situation and continually refutes and ignores the advice of multiple posters because it is not what they want to hear and admittedly says just that, a post such as yours comes accross as a sympathizer more often than not due to them being in a similar situation and not wanting to face their own mortality of the situation. I went through 5 years of hell hanging on and in my opinion I was wrong in doing so. I made it harder on myself, my friends and my family. I lost 5 years of my life waiting for someone to come back to me who clearly didn't want me. Why would I want anyone else to suffer such as I did? I am highly educated and I have helped thousands during my career get past their relationship issues and I was blinded by my own advice.

 

I think it's great that you have volunteered in the past and helped others, it helps you heal your own wounds as well.

[DN]

I agree with RC. No one can claim to be an oracle of Delphi, always correct and insightful. All we can reasonably do is offer our insights based sometimes on personal experiences, sometimes on observations of others, and sometimes from intuition. Some people are highly trained in certain fields but that does not make them infallible nor does it always make their advice better than from anyone else. If those highly educated people are wise they know that their education never ceases and can be obtained from many different sources.

 

There is a difference between a confrontation and a disagreement. Much of what we know as human beings comes from a civilsed debate which challenges accepted theories. That is how we learn.

 

 

"I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises

All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear

And disregards the rest."

Simon and Garfunkel - The Boxer

[poke]

Thanks RC & DN, I think I may have misinterpreted your earlier post a little... I understand better now where you were coming from.

 

BTW, I think you guys are doing a great job

[octopus]

Maybe Im afraid of being alone more then I am of losing her. Apparently she didn't consider me worth keeping her commitment to me. If it were I that lost the spark I would have tried whole heartedly to get it back! Not just say "oh well, time to move on" like she did.

 

 

Just a comment here: If it were you who'd lost the spark, I bet you'd be wanting to date others and not waste your time with that girl when you think you could love more out there. I'm in the same situation as you, maybe worse because I know my ex won't come back coz he wanted a 'clean end' instead of a 'break', but when I put myself in his shoes, I think I'd do the same.