The Sex Imperative

[corvidae]

Well Muneca, that wasn't really the focus of this thread, though it is a part of it. Mainly I was just interested in discussing the idea of the sexual need that most people have. Some people, mainly men, have to deal with a life of celibacy that they didn't choose. In my opinion this leads to, or can lead to, emotional problems. People on this thread began discussing getting violent and angry when drunk and the need to 'vent their frustrations'. The link with anger is quite interesting, but these points weren't developed, which is a shame. I suppose Shakespeare's Richard III said it first when he said if he couldn't be a lover he'd be a villain instead.

 

Sex is certainly easier to get for women. Obviously there are factors to do with the individual, but as a general rule it holds true. Like I said, if a woman wants sex she can get it. I don't want to repeat myself, so just read my previous post on this thread for the reasons why this is true, but basically in the real world that some of us live in, women do the choosing and men do the offering. It has it's roots in evolutionary biology, as with most animals the male is designed to attempt to seduce and the female is designed to resist seduction. This innate part of our being has been interwoven into the fabric of the society we humans have created. When women say men think with their [censored], they don't realise that this is an aspect of their biological role, whereas they, as women, are just as controlled by their ancient drives as they resist seduction even against logic. Neither gender is more 'cerebral' over mating and mate choice, it's just we have different drives. Let us not forget we are animals, and that love and bonding only ever evolved to keep pair-groups together for the better raising of young, and is thereforeeee directly linked to reproduction.

[Mun]

Are there people out there who have no trouble finding people to sleep with and cannot imagine what it is like to not be able to have that in their lives? Is this a male problem, in-so-much that women can get sex easily, whereas men can't? I'd like to hear people's opinions.

 

I'm sorry Corvidae, I thought that was exactly the focus.

 

In any case, I was trying to stop your topic from becoming an argument over one members personal choice not to have sex--that can be discussed on a separate topic .

 

I just had a thought : What would happen if women's "drives" were to change and they started behaving as men do ( driven by similar primal urges)? You know, that would change this whole dynamic.

 

I wonder how society would view such a shift. In other words, women no longer resist seduction, they are the ones trying to seduce. They give into these "urges" with anyone that interests them ( for free).

 

Do you think that would be a positive change?

[Shidoshi]

I don't think my argument with Shy is at all off topic. I gave an example of a guy who has EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS because he lacks a sexual relationship with a woman of any kind. Yeah I guess I could cut back on my responses but I still think they're valid as far as this thread is concerned.

[ShySoul]

Shidoshi,

 

I think its that we've had similar debates in other topics and people are tired of our banter. I also think it was relevant to the topic, but whatever. If you want to continue with the discussion, pm me. I had stuff posted but I edited it cause I didn't want it to seem like we were taking over.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...

[corvidae]

Well, that's a very interesting point Muneca. I think a 'positive' change would be one where both genders move to a point where there is more of a 50/50 share of the initiation phase. Rather than have a system of chaser and chased, a system of mutual acceptance would benefit both parties. Women would have to stop worrying about having lots of guys try to come on to them and men would not have to worry about having to do all the chasing and getting all the rejection. At the moment women are far too passive. I'm sure men have their faults too, but as I am a man it is much easier to see what women do wrong.

 

Are there people out there who have no trouble finding people to sleep with and cannot imagine what it is like to not be able to have that in their lives? Is this a male problem, in-so-much that women can get sex easily, whereas men can't? I'd like to hear people's opinions.

 

I'm sorry Corvidae, I thought that was exactly the focus.

 

In any case, I was trying to stop your topic from becoming an argument over one members personal choice not to have sex--that can be discussed on a separate topic .

 

I just had a thought : What would happen if women's "drives" were to change and they started behaving as men do ( driven by similar primal urges)? You know, that would change this whole dynamic.

 

I wonder how society would view such a shift. In other words, women no longer resist seduction, they are the ones trying to seduce. They give into these "urges" with anyone that interests them ( for free).

 

Do you think that would be a positive change?

 

[nightshade19]

For one.. yes.. i would say that not having sex when you have a healty sex drive is maddening.... I would definitely agree.. Sex is a natural stress reliever..it gives one andomorphins (sp?) the things that give us a natural high.. just the act of lying in someone else's arms too is emotionally fulfilling to some extent.. Not to mention the need for human touch.

 

It definitely fulfills a human need. I'm not talking about society.. I don't really care what society thinks.. though i'm opposed to people just using other people for sex alone.. I think that is far more degrading in my own personal experience than it would be for someone to seek out a prostitute.

And really.. i can see NOTHING wrong or degrading for a man to do this type of thing. I think it's far better he seek out a prostitute than risk impregnating a woman he has no feelings for.. or risk her health when he's sleeping with many women!!

It's a human need.. I think our country needs to recognize this and decriminalize prostitution.. It's perfectly legal in several countries btw... I wonder how their mental health situation is compared to ours.. Geez.. we seem to have far more murders and possibly rapes it seems than the average westernized civilization.. Could that be due to sexual frustration? A good topic for a college senior thesis perhaps...

 

 

I doubt many people would agree with me.. but I definitely think also think there should be prostitutes for women too.. I.E. Men who would take care of a woman's sexual needs... because REALLY it is NOT really always so easy for a woman to get sex.. I'm not overweight but i'm not a runaway model either.. and i find it extremely difficult to find a guy interested in me...Hey. i can hardly find someone to buy me a drink at a nightclub around here.. How am i going to find someone to sleep with me... Guys are just either too shy here.... and there's just not many guys my age around here for one who are nonattached and straight.. and TWO... most are so picky now.. we are all expected to look like something off the cover of a recent Victoria's Secret Catalog.. or someone who's walking down the runway...

I even see alot of young girls has issues with their looks and figures b/c there's so much competition to look "perfect".... whatever that means, lol... and guys in our country are so conditioned by the internet and the media to think a certain "look" is all he should be seeking.. BTW.. i would never augment my breasts so i guess automatically i'm out... LOL... Everyone is so crazy about running to the plastic surgeon to fix our imperfections it is insane...The only commercials i have seen lately that seems to accept women are they are is the Dove commercial.

Anyway. i'm definitely getting off topic here.. but sure. i'm getting very depressed in the fact i'm not getting any either.. sure.. it affects women.

Do you really think corvidae.. that we have any less of a sex drive than you guys? Hey.. i masturbate daily too.. simply cuz i have a sex drive and can't find a willing guy to solve those "needs" with.

sometimes i think it would be alot easier on me if i didn't have a sex drive or didn't think of sex so much.. but at least i'm healthy in that regard...

 

 

As far as what Muneca said.. yeah. i'm all for seeing the status quo change.. hey you guys are complaining about not getting enuf.. we girls are complaining about having to wait UNTIL someone asks us out til we get some loving..

 

 

Why can't we just solve this dilemma by making it okay for women to ask guys out?

Now.. i can see the naysayers already.. well. guys just wouldn't like that.. i know that is true too in my own experience.. cuz i don't want to hijack your thread corvidae... but maybe you guys need to get over that.. that need to be the alpha male.. why can't a girl be able to go up to a cute guy and say.. hey i'm interested in you.. whatcha think?

But.. now.. it's like we'd be looked down upon if we acted that way.. We'd be considered laughing stocks to behave in such a manner.

Another thing that really bothers me is that YES the media has to turn everything into something sexual..... sex is used to sell even hamburgers lately.. Arggggh.. Hardees. i may never eat in your restaurant again...

But.. what they refuse to address is the fact that we have some insipid and life threatening sexual diseases we now have to contend with... AIDS, HPV.. and Herpes is no treat either.. These condoms can't cover all the areas in which you cud be infected...and don't tell me that condoms are foolproof either! I know they aren't.. they've broken on me in many cases.... that alone is good reason to wait to get married.. Until science can address these health concerns.. it's like so frustrating that the Media would be selling sex to us like it was a totally safe thing nowadays...

 

 

Sex today has almost become like the poison apple.. I wonder how many more people have been sexually frustrated and become involuntarily celibate since AIDS was discovered?

 

Oh. btw.. corvidae. is that really your picture by your name? If so. then i think women are incredibly picky in your country.. or maybe just their eyesight is very poor. I think you are a very attractive guy myself.. I agree with Muneca.. I would definitely date you if you lived near me.. Course i'm probably a bit too old for you... but i can't see why you wouldn't have a date if this is your picture...

Hey.. maybe we should form a club on the internet.. for people who haven't had sex for months or years... at least we would have something in common.. we're all mad to have sex again.. and we know we've not been sleeping around with everything in a pants/skirt.

Anyway.. great topic.. hope i've not prattled on too long...

[Caldus]

but maybe you guys need to get over that.. that need to be the alpha male...

 

That's what I was thinking. If you're frustrated then work on getting some. Don't wait around for girls to ask you. It just won't happen. Work on your approaching.

 

Also, yes I also find it sickening that the media is using sex all the time just to sell something that has nothing to do with sex like hamburgers. I know they do it because sex sales. But man they have definitely overboard with it and it's annoying. I just can't stand to watch commercials let alone TV anymore because it's full of trash. No wonder you see all of these young teenage girls competing to look perfect and worrying about every single little aspect and imperfection of their body. It's like it's all they worry about and never do anything else.

 

Yes, even I am picky but I will not ignore a girl and will not go out with someone else just because they look better than some other girl. If a girl looks attractive enough to me (it's a case-by-case thing for me as to whether they are attractive ... I usually find a lot of foreign girls attractive too), then I will not ignore them and look for the perfect looking girl instead. This is, of course, in the context of looking for something serious with a girl. I guess a lot of guys my age don't look for something serious so they just try to find any girl who looks attractive and try to sleep with them. I'll admit that I've done that too. I just like to hang out with girls I meet first (and get physical if it just happens you know?) and see how it goes from there whether they are attractive enough or very attractive if that makes any sense. OK I gotta stop blabbering now.

[ShySoul]

And really.. i can see NOTHING wrong or degrading for a man to do this type of thing. I think it's far better he seek out a prostitute than risk impregnating a woman he has no feelings for.. or risk her health when he's sleeping with many women!!

 

So its better to risk his health by sleeping with a women who's job is to sleep with many different men? Or risk imprgnanting a total stranger who he also has not feelings for? At least if he sleeps with someone he knows or has dating, there could be some feelings there. Going to a prostitue is sex just for sex, feelings aren't invovled and ultimately the sex is unfulfilling. Plus all the health risks.

 

but I definitely think also think there should be prostitutes for women too..

 

There are, you just don't hear as much about them. Its stereotypes again. Women are viewed as sexual creatures more, and men are viewed as needing sex. But there are magazines like Playgirl and I've flipped through papers and seen ads for male prostitutes right next to the ads for women.

 

Everyone is so crazy about running to the plastic surgeon to fix our imperfections it is insane...The only commercials i have seen lately that seems to accept women are they are is the Dove commercial.

 

There are still plenty of guys who prefer someone who is natural and doesn't go for the plastic supermodels.

 

Why can't we just solve this dilemma by making it okay for women to ask guys out?

 

I'm all for it, just don't think sex should have anything to do with. But if women want it to happen, all they have to do is go out and ask a guy out. Don't sit back and say you wish things would change, go out and change them.

 

But.. what they refuse to address is the fact that we have some insipid and life threatening sexual diseases we now have to contend with... AIDS, HPV.. and Herpes is no treat either.. These condoms can't cover all the areas in which you cud be infected...

 

So why did you want to legalize prostitution and make sex more common? That wouldn't help problems with such diseases.

 

Also, yes I also find it sickening that the media is using sex all the time just to sell something that has nothing to do with sex like hamburgers

 

Those ads have a backlash affect too that advertisers would be wise to look at. If I see something appealing to sex to sell, it goes to the bottom of my list of things to buy. And I'm not alone.

 

I still can't find anyone is willing to give me an example that everone agrres is a model of attractiveness. Until I do I'll stick with saything that everyone is physically attractive in some way, and to someone. So stop worrying about it people. Focus on whats inside. And when you see true inner beauty, its going to reflect on the outside.

[Shidoshi]

I just wanted to comment on a few off topic statements.

most are so picky now.. we are all expected to look like something off the cover of a recent Victoria's Secret Catalog.. or someone who's walking down the runway...

How often do guys actually end up with women who meet this standard though? If you are at all considered a physically attractive woman guys WILL hit on you. Why do I see all these overweight and somewhat unattractive (of course this is subjective) women with bfs? There is probably an equal amount of both men and women who fit this criteria. I remember a time when I was going through a bit of a dry spell so I decided to lower my standards a bit and approach women who I thought were less attractive (I thought they'd be easy, I know it sounds shallow, but I never lied to these girls about my intentions). All the women I made an attempt at had bfs, I was like wth? I think it has more to do with your current environment and where you hang out. Also, how about YOUR standards/expectations, are they a bit high?

[ShySoul]

most are so picky now.. we are all expected to look like something off the cover of a recent Victoria's Secret Catalog.. or someone who's walking down the runway...

 

Well, I've heard of plus size models strutting down the runway. Saw something the other day of a beauty contest with pregnant women in bikinis. I know there are contigents of guys who like someone a little bigger. Physical attraction is all in the mind, what you think is beautiful, is beautiful.

[kskm]

I have to admit that having sex has never been a problem for me, then again I am only 21.

I am not sure that men have that hard of a time finding someone to have a one night stand with (if that's what they want) as they would like the world to think.

I believe it's just as hard for women as it is for men to do this. Maybe it's the people that I surround myself with but if a girl walked up to a guy (that were my friends) and asked him to meet her back at her place then he would have to give it some serious thought and probably say no. None of the guys that I hang out with want a girl that thinks of themselfs that low. And same goes with the girls.

 

If I had my situation reversed, and I couldn't get any for whatever reason, I think that I probably would go insane and have major depression. I am a very sexual and passionate person.. I would think that something was definitally wrong with me...

 

Well that's my take on it.

[nightshade19]

Well... if you are 21 years old and live in a college town then yeah.. duh.. finding handy sex partners is probably no problem... As you get older though.. more and more people settle down and the number of eligible single men dwindle... I'm really not into dating 21-25 year old guys.. and yes.. a few have asked me out...

Besides...I do unfortunately live in a college town and the bars & nightclubs are all full of 20 somethings.. i hardly ever see guys in their 30s or 40s now in there...and therein lies my problem.. I'm not 20 something anymore... nor do i want to be... but i do want to be with a partner i have something in common with... like someone closer to my age...he doesn't have to be my exact age.. but at least 34-35.... and someone i can talk to.

The thing with legalized prostitution... at least in France.. is that the women get tested monthly... it's all state mandated.. I dare say it's probably safer for a guy in France to date a prostitute than it would be to go date some woman in the United States he hadn't known but for a few weeks...

Even in this country.. you need to have six months to know if AIDS test is accurate.. that is.. if you went down and had an AIDS test tomorrow..but you'd been sleeping around some.. the doctor would still advise you to only have protected sex with a partner KNOWN NOT to have AIDS, and come back six month from now to be tested again to be sure you were free of AIDS.. How many people in this country.. now wait 6 months to have sex with anyone??

I doubt there are people who even wait 6 weeks.. It's all a hurry up world.

Yes.. i guess i cud go to bed with someone.. but someone married... or someone i hardly know, or is not very attractive is not my idea of a sexual partner...

I still don't think it should be such a social stigma to go to a prostitute.. if you are horny... everyone has needs...

And come on now.. you think the prostitute is not going to be practicing safe sex... or using birth control? I doubt it.....

I have heard that some prostitutes won't even french kiss with their clients...That tells something about how much they are committed to keeping themselves safe.

[ShySoul]

The thing with legalized prostitution... at least in France.. is that the women get tested monthly... it's all state mandated.. I dare say it's probably safer for a guy in France to date a prostitute than it would be to go date some woman in the United States he hadn't known but for a few weeks...

 

Getting tested monthly is good, but still doesn't fix the problem. Say she gets tested on the first. Then on the 3rd she contracts a disease. The people she sleeps with for the rest of the month are at risk, and that could be a fair number of people. Yes, sleeping with anyone can be a risk. But when you are sleeping with someone you know sleeps around, thats a pretty big risk.

 

I have heard that some prostitutes won't even french kiss with their clients...That tells something about how much they are committed to keeping themselves safe.

 

From what I've read its more about emotionally detachment. It's strange when you consider everything else they are doing, but they won't kiss because its a show of intimacy. These girls try to separate the sex they have for business with there personal life. Face it, these people they sleep with are random strangers who don't really care about them and are using them to meet their "needs." Doing that often can really wreck a girls self-esteem, even if they really do enjoy the sex. So they separate themselves from the work they do through things like no kissing.

 

I still don't think it should be such a social stigma to go to a prostitute.. if you are horny... everyone has needs...

 

I don't think the issue should be a social stigma for going to a prostitute, I think it should be the fact that these girls feel they have to be one to begin with.

[Blackmsmithdave]

wow, what a topic. im 20 with ahuge sex drive, as in bigger than me. and i want women, and yes im not ashamed to admit guys too. however i am picky and i wonthave a one night stand just for relief. What makes me more depressed about being single is when i hear aboutother people having sex. It really gets me down. im not too shy and im a good laugh. i do efine my desire for a partner as something heavily sexual. but i spose for me sex is as much an animal act as it is a comforting thing. something that would make me feel great about myself.

 

(oh little message of mine i send you out amoung the wolves)lol

[pianoguy]

Interesting discussion. I think I'll jump in radomnly.

 

I am a 20-year old unwilling celibate. I am also homosexual, so that complicates things a bit.

 

If I understand the arguments correctly I think I agree with ShySoul with some reservations. Up until two years ago (when I came to college) I was perfectly happy with my sexless existence. I even had few friends at that point (I'm not a terribly social person) and was perfectly content. The problem came when I fell in love with my straight best friend. Now I am plagued with feelings of lonliness, frustration, etc.

 

The point is, I don't lay awake at night wishing "God, I wish I could have sex." I think, "I wish John were here." Of course I fantasize about having sex with him, but the things that really break my heart are when I think about us having lunch together, buying groceries, him trying to bake cookies that always turned out like bricks, etc. etc.

 

To me, the greater pain is not so much that John didn't love me (well, he did, but not romantically) but that I wasn't allowed to love him, to tell him how much I cared for him, etc.

 

The thing is, when comments are made such as "Sex is a need, that, if left unfulfilled, makes you tense and crabby" puzzles me, because if that were true prostitutes and one-night stands would indeed make people happy, which never seems to be true to me. I find that people who go to prostitutes tend to be incredibly unhappy and sexually unsastisfied. Loveless sex doesn't seem to diminish sex drive at all.

 

One thing I disagree with ShySoul on is that sex with love is, I think, a need that people have. I wonder if that is more what Cordivae is trying to say, "Loveful sex is a need that if, unfulfilled, can lead to psychological problems and stress." I would agree with that, it's been true in my case to be sure. I can't conceive of two healthy mature individuals not having sex as part of a romantic relationship.

 

I wonder exactly what is meant by "sex" here. Are we referring exclusively to intercourse? Obviously there are people who are unable to have sex for physical reasons, but I'm sure they find other means of expressing their love in a physical manner. I can't conceive of two lovers not loving each other physically in some way.

 

It does seem to me that spirtuality can be a substitute for sex with love in certain cases. As a Catholic I know quite a few people who seem very fulfilled in their celibacy, but I think this is relatively unusual. These people are so intensely focused on God, and he/she is so real to them that their is no room in their heart for anything else. I think few people are capable of this, however (And for the record their are a ton of sexually repressed priests out there too as we are all too aware)

 

I think Americans (and perhaps Westerners in general) have an incredibly unhealthy concept of sex. On the one hand, we have pop culture which glorifies loveless sex of all kinds, and the other hand we have a church which brands nearly all kinds of sex as sinful (I do think sex can be hurtful sometimes, but not nearly as much as the church says). I do think that many of Western society's problems can be linked to this unhealthy sexual attitude, although I'm not sure what the solution is. I wonder how other cultures deal with sexual needs and which solutions seem to be the most effective.

 

Cordivae, did Jefferson really say that? That's hilarious.

[ShySoul]

pianoguy,

 

Good post, really made some good points. With John I would say that anytime you want to be with someone and are in love with them but they can't love you back, you'll have those feelings of lonliness. And your right on why. It's the love behind it. I'm in a similar spot, loving a girl and wanting to be with her so bad but because of certain things have agreed to be friends. I'm planning on taking another shot at it, but the thought of not being with someone I care about like this, sharing that feeling of being in love, it drives me crazy. And the thing is, I've never thought about having sex with her. I've thought of holding, kissing her. I've thought about sleeping with her, in each others arms nothing sexual. It's sharing my heart with her thats what I need, not sharing my body.

 

I'm sorry about not being able to tell him. That must be a terrible feeling.

 

I think that sex with love is a need, in comparison to sex without love. That's why one night stands leave people empty, they don't have the love. But the love is always what drives it. Sex with love is a wonderful thing, but what makes it wonderful? I can see two healthy mature individuals in a romantic relationship, not having sex. Though I like the way all those conditions are thrown in (not just individuals, but mature, healthy ones to in a romantic relationships). What exactly do you mean by healthy? Cause that could change things dramatically.

 

I can't conceive of two lovers not loving each other physically in some way.

 

As I was saying above, spending the night in each others arms, speaking softly to each other, hands gently caressing the others body... that's physical and can be just as romantic and special. As the girl I'm interested in has told me, she would rather do that then have sex... and shes a perfectly healthy and wonderful girl.

 

I think Americans (and perhaps Westerners in general) have an incredibly unhealthy concept of sex

 

The problem comes in the mixed message. On one hand we have the media selling sex everywhere and giving people the idea that it is a need. On the other, your looked down about, not just by religion, if you are being as sexual as shows and ads would have us be. Though I'm not as critical of religions. Yes, if religions are talking about it being sinful then they are going to far. But I was always taught that sex is beautiful, in the right context. Two people who love each other in a committed relationship, preferrably marriage. Sex is an important and beautiful thing. But the problem comes when people turn their "need" for sex to far and do things for the purpose of getting sex or allow it to cause problems in an otherwise great relationship.

[pianoguy]

I'm in a similar spot, loving a girl and wanting to be with her so bad but because of certain things have agreed to be friends. I'm planning on taking another shot at it, but the thought of not being with someone I care about like this, sharing that feeling of being in love, it drives me crazy. And the thing is, I've never thought about having sex with her. I've thought of holding, kissing her. I've thought about sleeping with her, in each others arms nothing sexual. It's sharing my heart with her thats what I need, not sharing my body.

 

If I can be off-topic for a moment,

 

ShySoul, having browsed quickly throug your, oh, 2000 posts or so... you seem to give a lot of sage advice and defend nice/shy guys everywhere, but don't seem to talk about yourself a whole lot... there's something very beautiful it the paragraph above. I hope you do take another shot at it. Obviously there is a lot I don't know about the situation but unrequited love generally sucks and generally you have little to lose and much to gain by taking a shot.

 

And if I can be very forward... if she rejects you try to move on eventually. It's easy to get hung up on someone and think no one else can be like him/her, but it's simply not true. You need to tear yourself away sometimes, find someone else.

 

Is there another forum where this is being discussed, or you can PM me if you like.

 

I'm sorry about not being able to tell him. That must be a terrible feeling.

 

Yeah, but it's my fault not his. I probably will tell him in a couple weeks.

 

What was worse was when my best female friend fell in love with me and I had to reject her because she's not a boy. That's was very trying, especially because I DO love her very much in a platonic way. It was hard, but we made the best of the situation and came out quite well. We are now very close friends and probably will be for the rest of our lives.

 

I think that sex with love is a need, in comparison to sex without love. That's why one night stands leave people empty, they don't have the love. But the love is always what drives it. Sex with love is a wonderful thing, but what makes it wonderful? I can see two healthy mature individuals in a romantic relationship, not having sex. Though I like the way all those conditions are thrown in (not just individuals, but mature, healthy ones to in a romantic relationships). What exactly do you mean by healthy? Cause that could change things dramatically

.

 

By healthy I simply mean physically (as in they are able to have sex without pain) and mentally (a psychologist says they are mentally sound). I suppose I can see two people in a sexless romantic relationship, but to me the question arises: What on earth is the reason for celibacy? I can understand for disease and pregnacy prevention, but barring this, the only reason I can think of religion.

 

I think waiting for marriage is a noble thing, although in my case it is an empty point since both church and state deny me this.

 

However, I attend a Christian college where I have seen a ton of couples waiting to have sex until marriage, and the results have been pretty silly. I lived in a house with 7 extremely conservative religious (and horny) guys, of about whom half had girlfriends. The sexual tension in the house got very annoying and I found myself wishing that the guys with girlfriends would just have sex with them so that they would be more pleasant people to be around. I have seen more couples than I care to think about rushing into marriage so they can have sex. I see boys and girls who love each other intensley completely uncomfortable with each other physically, afraid even to kiss each other for fear of "temptation" God, if he/she exists, would not want this.

 

As I was saying above, spending the night in each others arms, speaking softly to each other, hands gently caressing the others body... that's physical and can be just as romantic and special. As the girl I'm interested in has told me, she would rather do that then have sex... and shes a perfectly healthy and wonderful girl.

You sound like a real sweetheart. I hope you go after this girl, it seems like you two would be a good match.

The problem comes in the mixed message. On one hand we have the media selling sex everywhere and giving people the idea that it is a need. On the other, your looked down about, not just by religion, if you are being as sexual as shows and ads would have us be. Though I'm not as critical of religions. Yes, if religions are talking about it being sinful then they are going too far.

 

Most Christian religions are highly critical of sex. Catholicism condemns all forms of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. Even that kind of sex they consider a "necessary evil" for procreation. To me this is outrageous, to say that sex is only for procreation puts us on an animalistic level. Human sex is NOT only for procreation, human sex is also about love, this is what separates us from the animals. I'm all for procreation, even though I can't, but sex is much more than that.

 

Protestantism is a little better but not much. Most teach that sex outside of marriage is invariably wrong, which is not true.

[caasiopia68]

if you havent already heard ppls oppinions... guys have a bigger sex drive... i dont know why...

[Shinobie]

Shy, you keep missing my point. Here is where I started from,

 

I know you are talking about romantic relationships, so I'll focus on them.

 

You cannot, cannot, cannot have a healthy romantic relationship without sex or the possibility of sex. I am not talking about waiting till your married (because then there is the anticipation of sex)or shool age sweetheart things. I am talking about two mature people in or planning to be in a long term relationship.

 

I would defy you to find me one relationship that lasted 5 plus years between 2 people over the age of 21 that had no sex involved.

 

Anyway, i don't want to hijack the thread so maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Melrich My friend who just got married like one year ago.They are very strong church goers after they screwed up their lives but now everythings set and everythings great for them now.They waited 5 years till they were married to have sex it does happen.

[Shinobie]

I dont think its a matter whether ur a guy or a girl which makes it easier to have sex.I think it matters about looks.Cause if your good looking BINGO! U can have sex with somebody prolly like 95% easier then any ugly person.My friend is really hot too girls and he attracts them the second they look at him.And why is sex so important to everybody i mean holy crap.I mean 5 seconds of joy then boom ur done.I would think being in love and having a passionate kiss would be more exciting.

 

O yah and before u say it i know im gonna get a couple of o you dont know what ur talking about uve never done anything or otherwise stafoo noob like we say in cs or the game world.These are just feelings from the heart that i feel i would like.

[Caldus]

Some people just never get it. It's not that much about looks! #-o

[ShySoul]

Cause if your good looking BINGO! U can have sex with somebody prolly like 95% easier then any ugly person.My friend is really hot too girls and he attracts them the second they look at him.And why is sex so important to everybody i mean holy crap

 

Actually, you do know what you are talking about. You're just focusing on the wrong part. You said that sex isn't as important as its made out to be, I agree. So does it really matter if its 95% easier to get sex? That's not what you are looking for anyways. The guys who go for sex will find themselves empty and lonely. Guys like us who want love and companionship, we'll be happier because we know that what we have goes deeper then flesh, it goes to the heart.

 

I mean 5 seconds of joy then boom ur done.I would think being in love and having a passionate kiss would be more exciting.

 

Five seconds? Wow, your friend really needs to improve that stamina Your right, a passionate kiss and being in love is worth whole lot more. Keep that attitude and you'll be better off.

[Shinobie]

Im just saying caldus my friend can have sex with a girl so fast it isnt even funny.As for a guy with me if i was one of those guys who cared so much about sex it would take a long healthy relationship to have it but i liek it that way.Like this girl at work she said im not as bad looking as i think,im fun to talk too,and im really nice and caring.Shes really nice but it seems as tho she would want to go out with the really hot guy that works there instead.Just like usual i can never find a relationship but o welli dont really mind just keep on looking.She either thinks of me as more as a friend or just like usual what ive noticed wants the more attractive guy.O yah and for the 5 seconds thing shy i meant when u climax.I mean i see it as the whole process of sex the whole thing can be very loving and passionate.But i meant that some guys just look at it that way as the climax.

[Caldus]

Well Shinobie, you can believe all you want that girls base a lot of the attraction on looks, but it's simply a generalization to me. Some will, I will grant you that, but honestly, don't make those kind of assumptions. If you are being rejected then have you ever thought of the possibility of it not being because of your looks? It could be a plethora of things besides looks, like your personality, she's going through a rough time in her life, and so on.

[ShySoul]

That's what I meant to about the 5 seconds. The guys who see it as just a way to climax may have sex once, but if that's all there doing and there not pleasing the girl, then she's not going to keep him around for long. They need to last a little longer then 5 seconds. So consider yourself lucky that your not one of those guys.

 

You care about people, especially girls. You are the guy girls end up with, thing is they have to outgrow their phase of going for whats not important so that they can fully appreciate what is important, and people like you who will give it to them. Four years ago, I was like you. And even though I still don't have a girlfriend (possibly changing that soon), I've had several girls showing interest in me. One day you are going to wake up and wonder how you can keep the girls away.

 

The girl at work... did you ask her out? Or are you assuming that she'd turn you down? I say follow your heart. Go for it and get her to forget the other guy. Talk to her more, flirt. Compliment her. See if she wants coffee or something one day. If she doesn't go for it, big deal. There are other better girls out there. What do you have to lose?