The Sex Imperative

[ShySoul]

link removed

 

The question was asked before and people did say a sexless relationship is possible. I don't feel like researching, but I'm sure there are examples of people who have some kind of disease, a stroke, or something that prevents them from engaging in sex. But he or she has a relationship that continues for years, even til one days. It is possible. Maybe people here don't think it because they are young and are bombarded with the idea that you need sex in your life. Once you get older, perhaps you'll see that in the larger scheme of things, sex isn't necessary for a relationship.

 

I am not talking about waiting till your married (because then there is the anticipation of sex)or shool age sweetheart things. I am talking about two mature people in or planning to be in a long term relationship

 

Neither am I. I am talking about two mature adults who plan on being in a long term relationship. You could say that if they are waiting until marriage that there is some anticiaption, but that anticpation is minute compared to the anticpation of just being married, being with someone who loves and understands you, of having someone who you can share your life with. Sex is pretty much last on the last of priorites or anticipation.

 

I would defy you to find me one relationship that lasted 5 plus years between 2 people over the age of 21 that had no sex involved

 

One, why would it need to last 5 years in order to be considered successful. I believe corvidae mentioned the relationships that don't last forever and are not suppose to work out. Most relationships, should they last 5 years, involve marriage so that wasn't what the issue was. Two people can go out for a year, or longer, not have sex and still be in a successful relationship from which they both benefit. And they can be over 21 while doing it.

 

I think that sex is necessary for a healthy relationship, and if you find it's more a cause of problems then you both need to address the issue, possibly with professional help. I don't mean this in a rude way at all Shysoul, but I do often get the impression that your views are quite...er...original (unique?), and perhaps don't always reflect the general trend in feelings of your contemporaries. The 'need' for sex isn't just a societal pressure, but a biological one. Without delving into the genetic arguments, one could say that sex (or reproduction) is the single main goal of all organisms

 

I have no doubt that my views do not always reflect the majority opinion, and I'm fine with that. I have never claimed to speak for most people, if any thing I've gone out of my way to point out that I tend to think differently then most. But the fact that I believe them, even if I'm the only person in the world who does, shows that there are other views and that sex doesn't HAVE to be everything you are making it out to be.

 

I recogize that you don't mean to be rude and I don't mean to be rude by saying this, but why would I or someone who thinks like I do need professional help? Because I'm putting love, compassion, and understanding above sex? Because I'm saying I would stay with someone even if we were to never have sex, because I really do love the person? Because what I am looking for has nothing to do with physical aspects, its all about the emotional and spirtual? Don't get me wrong, its not like I have zero interest in it. I just put it in perspective. It's not about sex, its about love, compassion, etc. If I find someone that I love and want to be with, then the sex will come with it. But if for some reason sex is not a possiblity, it's not going to bother me.

 

Besides, have you never heard people talk about the joys of just lying there with the one they love, not needing to have sex in order to have the best night of their life?

 

What your doing is generalizing, and will it greatly simplifes matters it does miss out on many important factors. Maybe as a whole sex is necessay to keep the species going. So biologically it is necessary for the human race. But it doesn't follow that it is going to be such a powerful "need" for each individual person. As long as everyone doesn't decide to give up sex, then humanity isn't in any danger. Thus on an individual level, there doesn't have to be this desire to breed. I know people who have no interest in having kids, so breeding isn't necessary a fundamental force we all have. And some people don't need to have sex, they actually prefer just cuddling.

 

I don't feel sex is inflicted on by society, I don't have a lack if interest, nor is it something I feel should be viewed with shame. I think sex is such a beautiful thing that I honestly feel it is distorted by people who view it as a physical act or as a biological instinct. I place more value on it then that, as something sacred. I know most won't agree with me. But for the few that do, they get it and thats all that matters. In the meantime, I'll just be proof that you don't need to have sex for a relationship to be successful. Should I have a relationship, that person will be one who sees that love means infintely more then sex ever could and would be willing to wait. Any anticpation of sex will be a bare minimum, the focus will be on our feeling for each other. Either it works, in which the love is primary, or it doesn't in which I'll have shown you can have a successful relationship (at least by my standards) without sex. Or, worst case scenario, I'll never have sex which will show that people don't have to have sex in their live in order to be happy.

[Caldus]

Hey corvidae, always nice to see your threads...

 

So. Anyone here coping with a sexless existence? Would you liken it to being blind or disabled in some way? What emotional or psychological mechanisms do you employ? Anyone turned to religion (at the risk of being blasphemous!!)? And women: how about we hear from some women. Or am I right in saying that this is a purely male problem?

 

Well, sort of but not really. I've had a few sexual experiences in the past but at the same time not the type of person who has sex every day or week or even month really. I wouldn't think of it as the same kind of deal as being blind or deaf because you can change this situation of having no sex if you wanted to and worked at it. However, you can't change your blind or deaf status as far as I know.

 

What emotional or psychological mechanisms do I employ? Hmm ... not really sure what you're really asking here. Like what kind of defense mechanisms I have involuntarily deployed or what ones I have voluntarily deployed?

 

I have to agree that sex is something that we all want simply because it's the way we are built. I would hate to think that sex is my one and only goal in life though. I think there is much more to life then screwing someone but that's just me (and I'm not talking about drinking or partying or anything like that).

 

To the people who are complaining about society's pressures about sex: well forget what they think. I know this is hard as you see sex portrayed on the media and really just about everywhere all the time, but the only way you're not going to feel pressured is if you simply just don't give a **** anymore about what society thinks. Develop the mindset that it doesn't matter what they think. Go on with what you want to do in life and don't feel pressured to do anything.

[doorik]

I don't want to get into a big debate over whether or not it is easier for women to get a relationship, but yes, it is MUCH easier for women to get sex. This is mainly to do with the fact that men do the chasing whereas women do the accepting. Women just need to accept a man.

 

What!!?? But, But, women get pregnant, do the same work for less pay!!! Don't you know the only advantages/disadvantages that are allowed to exist (on these boards at least) are when someone points out a an advantage of being a man, and a disadvantage of being a women? Geez Corvidae, where's your head at? Making sacrilegious statements like that.

[corvidae]

Behave Doorik

[Mun]

I think if I was in your shoes at some point I would think something is seriously wrong with me. If no woman EVER persues me and no woman ever ACCEPTS me then there must be something really really wrong with me. It might be looks ( as I think you have stated before) or attitude, and I would definitely look into it. (To be honest I've seen your pictures and I don't think it has anything to do with looks, but thats my opinion)

 

That being said....

 

If nobody is willing to change the way things are and women are not to start persuing men because it's just easier not to--Then I would urge ALL woman who find a man interesting to hand him her phone number, if at least to shorten that distance he needs to persue her and take away the fear he will be rejected.

Message: She gives you her number, she will not turn you down. I see this as a win-win. (He doesn't call? he wasn't interested, move on)

[arrowbee]

I think if I was in your shoes at some point I would think something is seriously wrong with me. If no woman EVER persues me and no woman ever ACCEPTS me then there must be something really really wrong with me.

 

How flattering!

 

It is possible to not have anything wrong with you and still not be popular with women. For the most part, women are not open-minded people. They will tolerate almost no deviation from the norm in their potential mates.

 

For example:

 

Once I was talking to a girl and things seemed to be going great UNTIL we started talking about the university courses we were taking. I told her I had been enrolled in a computer science class at one point. Then she went "eww!" and excused herself shortly after.

[Caldus]

I told her I had been enrolled in a computer science class at one point. Then she went "eww!" and excused herself shortly after.

 

Then I would personally smack her. Just kidding. But yeah you can bet that if a girl judges you like that then she is incredibly shallow and not worth your time. Ever. Don't take **** like that from any woman. Ignore her and find a girl that has some brains and doesn't judge people by what their major is.

 

I'm in Computer Science too but I have yet for a girl to be turned off by me because I'm in that major. In fact most of them are just kinda like "oh cool really? I bet it's hard." Then I just go "nah, only if you believe it's hard."

 

It is possible to not have anything wrong with you and still not be popular with women. For the most part, women are not open-minded people. They will tolerate almost no deviation from the norm in their potential mates.

 

I'd like to think it's more of a case-by-case deal rather than figuring out what they all want in general. Because in reality every person has different tastes and preferences.

[arrowbee]

Then I just go "nah, only if you believe it's hard."

 

I failed it and switched majors afterwards. Maybe I just didn't believe it was easy enough. 8)

[Shidoshi]

I would say that not having sex at a more mature age would definitely cause psychological problems. I have a friend who is about 3 years older than me and he is a virgin. I can speculate and say he's insecure about his looks, etc. He has a lot of anger built up in him (very evident when he's drunk), and I know it causes him a lot of stress. It's not only the fact that he's not having sex, but the way people view him because of it. I think Muneca mentioned something about it meaning there's something seriously "wrong" with a person in this situation, especially if they don't have any medical conditions preventing them from doing it.

 

I sometimes think about it when I hear him talking about women. He tends to tell jokes that can be a bit TOO graphic at times, and I think it's related to his lack of sex and his desperation in wanting to. The older he gets the worse off he's going to be if he doesn't actively try and change his situation.

[wlfpack81]

I would say that not having sex at a more mature age would definitely cause psychological problems. I have a friend who is about 3 years older than me and he is a virgin. I can speculate and say he's insecure about his looks, etc. He has a lot of anger built up in him (very evident when he's drunk), and I know it causes him a lot of stress.

 

 

I'm somewhat like this too. My lack of action at this age is honestly causing me to slowly sip into madness. And it is definite evident when I drink (though I drink just enough to get a buzz but I still get angry). When I was in college I was able to vent my anger/frustration over my lack of women by going to the fball/bball games and basically just cursing, yelling, heckling the players etc. I've always been into sports (though I don't play them well) and being able to go to those games and get excited like did wonders to help me get anger out (though misdirected toward the players).

 

Of course I'm out of school now and moved some 1500mi to the middle of nowhere central U.S. and don't have the venting method anymore. So I have to find something new to use instead.

[ShySoul]

I would say that not having sex at a more mature age would definitely cause psychological problems...It's not only the fact that he's not having sex, but the way people view him because of it. I think Muneca mentioned something about it meaning there's something seriously "wrong" with a person in this situation, especially if they don't have any medical conditions preventing them from doing it.

 

Then the problem isn't that he isn't having sex, its how he views himself because of that. People can go years without sex and not have any kind of psycological problems, because they stay active and have confidence in themselves. It only becomes a problem when they believe they have to be doing it in order to be normal. But what is normal anyhow? When sex is portrayed everwhere around you it becomes easy to buy into the notion that you have to be having sex in order to be "right." It's really no different then the peer pressures teenagers face, that they have to have dates, relationships, kisses, and even sex. Plus theres added pressure of being older so people aren't as excepting of the "I'm waiting for the right one" reasoning.

 

But it is perfectly possible to be a healthy, mature adult with no psycological problems and go years without sex. Sex is not like food or air, we don't need it to survive. It is a want, not a need.

[Caldus]

It only becomes a problem when they believe they have to be doing it in order to be normal.

 

Exactly.

 

I say that if you really do believe that you are "missing out" on it and not getting it, then evaluate your situation carefully and figure out what you need to work on (whether it's shyness, etc.). Because you sure as heck aren't ever going to change if you don't make an attempt to change.

[Shidoshi]

Then the problem isn't that he isn't having sex, its how he views himself because of that.

Yeah but it isn't that simple. Unless you're living as a hermit somewhere isolated with no one else around, you're going to be affected by the culture you live in. No one can honestly say they are total individuals who aren't influenced by any other human being. You form opinions about yourself based upon how people react to you. It is human nature to seek out the opposite sex, and in "his" particular case it isn't happening. It can reach a point where it becomes "unhealthy." Masturbation does not satisfy the need to have sex with another person. It may temporarily provide some sense of relief but you'll still end up wanting the real thing and you will never be satisfied.

[ShySoul]

you're going to be affected by the culture you live in. No one can honestly say they are total individuals who aren't influenced by any other human being. You form opinions about yourself based upon how people react to you.

 

It is, how you say, a matter of perspective. Are the opinions that you form ones that are negative towards yourself, or do you choose to view yourself more positively? Two people can be faced with the exact same circumstances and form different opinions of themselves. What he is doing is taking what everyone else says and assuming they are right and that something is wrong with him. I flip the script around. I know that there is nothing wrong with me, that I'm a good person, and that I don't need sex to be confident in myself. So I turn there words on them and suggest that maybe they are the ones who really have the problem.

 

It is human nature to seek out the opposite sex, and in "his" particular case it isn't happening. It can reach a point where it becomes "unhealthy.

 

Sure, its human nature. But what about it makes it human nature? I've already said that biologically it is necessary for the species. But if that was the main reason why don't be just have arranged marriages for the best genetic breeding? I'm sure most people would be opposed to that. Why? Because there is a much deeper concern that needs to be filled, the need for love and understanding. Your friend is hurt, angry, stressed not because of a lack of sex, but because of a lack of love. It's that desire to connect with another person on a spirtual and emotional level, one that goes beyond mere pysical.

 

I think all too often people get this confused. They think that because the emotional aspect is manifested in a physical act, that it is the physical we need. You even said it your self, "lack of sex and his desperation in WANTING to." He wants sex, he needs love. That's what has him depressed.

[corvidae]

Shysoul, you really must stop pontificating. You clearly have a philosophy you live by, but it isn't necessarily the same for everyone else. This 'love and understanding' you talk about might be the be-all-and-end-all for you, but maybe not for someone else. Have you consider that you are as much a product of society as anyone else, with your defiance against the norms your almost a conformist because societal pressures still have a great influence on you by driving you away. Magnets push as well as pull you know.

 

I really relate to your friend Shidoshi, and to you to Wlfpack, I too used to get very angry, especially when drunk. Dear God! When I was drunk I hated the world, especially women (and myself for that matter). I don't drink any more. Personal choice. I've had therapy for depression and now I'm much more balanced and peaceful person. You can't be a seething mass of rage forever. I don't necessarly want love and understanding, or someone that looks deep into my soul. I don't really know what I want.

 

Muneca: I may exaggerate a tiny bit when I say no-one has ever been interested. I mean I'm not ahem a virgin, though I'm not far removed. I think you'll find in the UK most women are quite sexually repressed anyway, and unless the guy makes the moves the women may as well be frozen meat for all the sexual impetus they have. So, if like me, you're a guy and you refuse to make all the moves, then chances are you won't get anywhere. Doesn't mean you're a freak, if anything it's more to do with the way women behave. Things may be different in America, but here in the UK most women over 18 have the following strategy "A nice man! Quick, pretend you're not interested!"

[wlfpack81]

Very good post corvidae, I especially agree with what you had to say in the 1st paragraph.

[ShySoul]

Magnets push as well as pull you know

 

Yeah, and the harder everyone pushes at me for defending my views, the harder I push push back because I know that I'm right. And is your argument against what I say? That other people don't have the same view, that most people think differently. Well how do you know that most people are correct? All ideas start somewhere, maybe over time people will wake up and see what I say.

 

Have you consider that you are as much a product of society as anyone else, with your defiance against the norms your almost a conformist because societal pressures still have a great influence on you by driving you away.

 

This has nothing to do with society, this is me. I have always thought like this, before I every bothered to think of what "society" says. That's the biggest crime of becoming an "adult", we usually lose the will to think for ourselves, we lose the openness and innocence of a child. But I have thought of that. And I say that if you want to call me a conformist, fine. Your the one labelling me, conforming to this notion that we can fit into such neat little labels. I'm thinking for myself and doing what I feel in my heart is right. Maybe I actually care about people and disliking seeing people hurt by such superficial and absurd notions of how people should be when they are perfectly fine the way they are.

 

This 'love and understanding' you talk about might be the be-all-and-end-all for you, but maybe not for someone else.

 

If you honestly are going to say you want sex over love and understanding, I feel sorry for you. But you were the one opposed to going to a prostitute which would have given you the sex right there. So maybe you want the love and understanding more then you are willing to admit.

 

When I was drunk I hated the world, especially women (and myself for that matter).

 

Yet another reason why drinking helps absolutely nothing.

[GremlinX]

You know i'm not sure I would call not having sex a heavy burdon. It's there quite often in the back of my mind but for me anyway that's not it. Now to contradict myself there are times when I find myself in a panic over it but I calm down and try to put things into perspective.

 

For me it really is more about the lack of love and acceptance than the physical act.

 

For instance I know at one time long ago had I just wanted sex I knew of someone who probably would have (don't we all) but what would that have gotten me?

 

For one thing, sure, I would have lost my virginity but I'd still be empty and maybe even more upset than now.

 

The biggest thing is when you feel you have to defend why you haven't or aren't.

[ShySoul]

Thanks GremlinX, thats just what I mean.

 

I'm human. I wonder if I'll ever have sex, wonder what its like. But its not the sex that drives me, its the thought of honestly being loved in that special romantic way. If I was just out for dates or sex I could have got that a long time ago, but I'm thinking bigger, long term.

 

The biggest thing is when you feel you have to defend why you haven't or aren't.

 

Therein lies the problem. Why is it that those who don't have sex are viewed as less, when they are the ones strong enough to not give in to animal urges or hold sex as special enough to wait until the right time.

[melrich]

Hi Shy,

 

I had sort of bugged out of this thread but I noticed this and just wanted to reply,

 

Therein lies the problem. Why is it that those who don't have sex are viewed as less, when they are the ones strong enough to not give in to animal urges or hold sex as special enough to wait until the right time.

 

Personally, and from what I have read, most posters here have no problem with someone choosing not to have sex for any reason, whether it be waiting for marriage or whatever. I for one just have no feelings about it one way or another.

 

I do think what you may experience is a reaction to your attitude to it, conscious or not, as expressed in the quote I've used here. It seems to be that you regard those that make another lifestyle choice ie to have sex, with some sort of disdain, that they are simply acting on animal instinct and not holding out for a more noble cause.

 

I really do think that is where posters have an issue. Not that those who don't have sex are any lesser people but nor are they any greater people for not doing so. It is simply a lifestyle choice.

[Shidoshi]

Pretty insightful Richgabe.

What he is doing is taking what everyone else says and assuming they are right and that something is wrong with him.

He WANTS to have sex. It isn't really because he feels pressure to do so, he's a healthy heterosexual man who has hormones that greatly influence this desire. When you're an older male and you have no experience in the bedroom it's going to be hard finding a female of similar age to "except" this.

I flip the script around. I know that there is nothing wrong with me, that I'm a good person, and that I don't need sex to be confident in myself. So I turn there words on them and suggest that maybe they are the ones who really have the problem.

If you're still a single virgin 7 years from now I trully doubt you'd still feel this way.

Sure, its human nature. But what about it makes it human nature? I've already said that biologically it is necessary for the species.

Seems you've already answered your question...

But if that was the main reason why don't be just have arranged marriages for the best genetic breeding?

That actually still exists in certain parts of the world. We mainly don't do this because we're human beings, not Ants. We are "selfish," everybody wants the best, that's what we all strive for, within our own limitations, whether real or percieved.

there is a much deeper concern that needs to be filled, the need for love and understanding.

Sex means many things to many people, it serves multiple purposes with one being absolutely necessary for survival. You can't take sex out of the picture because we wouldn't exist if it weren't such a strong inate desire.

Your friend is hurt, angry, stressed not because of a lack of sex, but because of a lack of love.

Of course he wants love, but it's not the same kind of love you get from say, your friends and family. He needs "intimacy," which can only be given to him by a woman who isn't related to him. Part of that "intimacy" comes from being "sexual" with another human being.

I think all too often people get this confused. They think that because the emotional aspect is manifested in a physical act, that it is the physical we need.

If that's what he thought he could just hire a prostitute, and be done with it.

You even said it your self, "lack of sex and his desperation in WANTING to." He wants sex, he needs love. That's what has him depressed.

He needs both to make him feel content, desired, and more "normal" for his age.

[ShySoul]

Oy with the poodles again...

 

I do think what you may experience is a reaction to your attitude to it, conscious or not, as expressed in the quote I've used here. It seems to be that you regard those that make another lifestyle choice ie to have sex, with some sort of disdain, that they are simply acting on animal instinct and not holding out for a more noble cause.

 

I really do think that is where posters have an issue. Not that those who don't have sex are any lesser people but nor are they any greater people for not doing so. It is simply a lifestyle choice

 

I have stated many times that I have no problem with people who have sex, I mean I wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't so thats not an issue. The problem comes from the attitude of sex as being just an animal instinct and also the notion that sex is what drives us. Take someone in a mautre relationships who are having sex and they'll tell you that while the sex is good, the love is greater. We are more then animals who are ruled my instinct, we have a higer evolved consciousness... why not put it to use instead of relying on baser means. It's evolution.

 

I have also stated many times that EVERYONE is equal. No one is better then anyone else. But some people do make more mature chocies, and some people are always going to be thinking ahead of their time. Saying its simply a lifestyle choice is paramount to saying, whatever suits them is fine. It's precisely that relativism that troubles me. Lifestyles affect others, and viewing sex as just an instinct is likely to hurt people, including the one who believes that. I've seen that happen.

 

So if I'm wrong for voicing my opinion and not backing down, fine. If I'm wrong for saying sex is much more then an instinct, fine. If I'm wrong for trying to stand up for a sense of morality, fine. And if I'm wrong for hoping that my words helps one person out there to see what love, romance and sex is truly about... that's fine.

[melrich]

Shy,

 

You miss my point completely. I am making absolutely no comment on your views on sex and love and romance. No comment at all. Those are your values and I applaud you for them.

 

The comment I am making is re. your attitude about those who don't share your values.

[Mun]

It seems we are headed off topic.

 

Corvidae's post is asking if it is much easier for a woman to have sex ( or a relationship?) than it is for a man --and asks for other's opinions regarding this.

 

Let's try to stick to the topic please.

 

Thanks

Mun

[ShySoul]

Not going to hijack the thread, sorry. Sidoshi, you got saved man. But maybe we should stop the debating and settle it the old fashioned way, a dual. Supersoakers at high noon? What do you say?

 

A man could get sex just as easily as a women, or just as difficult. It really depends on the person of the opposite sex they are around. Some men would crave in easily if a women wanted sex, some couldn't be seduced by the most skilled seductress. Some women would love the idea of having sex, others wouldn't want to. Like most things, its all about the individual.

 

And really guys, is this an argument you want to win? If it really is easy for women to get sex, what does that say about the state of the male gender? That we fall into that oh so wonderful sterotype of not thinking with our big heads?