My ex and my novel...

[Cynder]

I'm almost finished revising the novel I started writing back in 2021.  I started it when I was going through an awful breakup.  My ex ghosted me out of nowhere.  She moved out when I was at work.  I never got any closure in this situation and she never offered an explanation.  She came back into my life 5 months later and claimed she wanted to talk about things.  But in reality all she wanted was for me to tell her everything's okay and that I forgive her so she could clear her conscience.  A few times she would do this, come back around and act like she wanted to clear the air.  And usually she would blow up at me over nothing and disappear for a few more months.  I am willing to own my mistakes.  I'm not exaggerating when I say she blew up over nothing.  The last time I talked to her (almost two years ago) she mentioned she was going to look at an apartment.  I asked her how looking at the apartment went and she flipped her crap on me and cussed me out.  Then the next day told me she was just drunk.  That was our last interaction and I blocked her everywhere not long after.

As far as where my novel comes into play here...  She was the main inspiration for it, at least in the beginning.  She told me all these stories from her teenage years about all the crimes she committed, etc.  She was in and out of prison before she was even 22, etc.  And one story particularly really got me thinking.  So I wrote a short story based on that story.  But I also changed it up a lot.  I didn't just write the same story she told me.  My version was a lot more violent.  And the character isn't her, either.  For one thing, I made the main character male.  I prefer to write male characters, and also, the character being male makes it seem more separate from her.  

I wrote this novel backwards to a degree.  I wrote this story that was based on a story she told me, and then I started thinking about what happened before that, and then before that, and then before that.  And so when the whole thing is laid out as one book, the first few chapters I wrote take place toward the end.  

Well now I am working on revisions and sending everything to my editor.  And now I'm getting into revising those early chapters that I wrote right after she left.  It's been bringing a lot of stuff up to the surface, mainly anger.  It took me a long time to stop loving her.  I was still in love with her for over a year after she left.  Love changes things.  It was hard for me to really feel any anger toward her for what she did.  Now though, I don't love her anymore and there's nothing stopping the anger.  I've wanted to text her and tell her what a POS she is, etc.  I won't do that because it won't solve anything, for one. I don't even have her number anymore, so it doesn't matter, but even if I did have her number I wouldn't bother. 

But I feel like there's so many things I want to say that I will never get to say.  I try to tell myself that it doesn't matter even if I did say these things.  She could sit across from me face to face and I could say everything.  None of it would matter because she can't see any fault in her actions.  She has an excuse for everything (usually alcohol.)  She uses being drunk as a way to justify all her bad behavior.  She lacks some serious self awareness.  So, I try to tell myself that even if I got to say it all, it wouldn't change anything. 

She resented me a lot in our relationship because of the things I've accomplished in my life.  And no, this isn't me being arrogant because I don't think I'm any better than she is.  But she skipped school a lot, she never went to college.  She has a criminal record.  She did a lot of drugs in her younger years.  I am about the most squeaky clean person ever.  No criminal record.  I was on the honor role all through high school and I made the Dean's list all but one semester in college.  I never did drugs when I was younger and my drug experience is still really limited.  But I was squeaky clean as a teenager because I was terrified of my parents, not by my own choice.  I grew up in a house where I got the crap beat out of me just for looking at my Mom the wrong way.  So I never stepped out of line.  As an adult I'm a business owner and I'm a professional artist.  She had a real issue with these things.  She would complain about how I've lived such a better life.  But I don't think of it as who lived a better life.  Just because I check all the boxes doesn't mean I had it better.  I think a big thing for her was she is a talker and I am a doer.  She would ask me when we were together how I find time to do all these stuff (my art, mainly.) And she would sit around playing video games 4-5 hours out of the day and complain about not having time to do more creative things, etc.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a gamer.  I'm just saying, when that takes up all a person's time it's their choice to spend their time on it.  I was a gamer once too.  I had to give that up so I could find the time to do my art/write, etc.  Bottom line here is she already resents that I do these things.  If she finds out I wrote a novel that she inspired she will be really disgusted.  I know I shouldn't care.  But it will get twisted around into me being a horrible person and her being an angel to everyone she knows (and we have mutual friends.) 

I also try to tell myself that I took an awful experience and turned it into something amazing.  But also, I feel like she doesn't deserve the honor of inspiring a novel.  But whether she deserves it or not, she did.  And it's only one chapter that she really inspired.  The rest of it was entirely my imagination.  I used some things from her childhood in my main character's background.  But nothing too specific.  Like, her dad was a coal minor.  My character's Dad is a coal minor, etc.  There are lot's of coal minors' children walking around. 

I've wondered how this will be perceived if she ever finds out.  I know if she ever found out it wouldn't be through me because I don't associate with her.  But we do have mutual friends.  If she finds out I published a book she might decide to seek it out just out of curiosity.  I was talking to my Mom about this and she told me I could get into "a lot of trouble" over this and told me I "really need to be careful doing stuff like that." I know she means well, but that isn't true, actually.  It's not illegal to base fiction on things that really happened.  And the book isn't about a breakup.  It's about crime, addiction and the drug trade.  My main character's name, gender, age, etc is all different from hers. 

But, I am finding it hard to get through the revisions of these last few chapters because I keep thinking about her and what she put me through.  And not only am I pissed at her, but I'm pissed at myself for allowing her to inspire me this way. 

I plan on talking about this in therapy in a week.  I just wanted a place to air my feelings.  Comments/thoughts are welcome. 

[LootieTootie]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

I've wondered how this will be perceived if she ever finds out.  I know if she ever found out it wouldn't be through me because I don't associate with her.  But we do have mutual friends.  If she finds out I published a book she might decide to seek it out just out of curiosity.  I was talking to my Mom about this and she told me I could get into "a lot of trouble" over this and told me I "really need to be careful doing stuff like that." I know she means well, but that isn't true, actually.  It's not illegal to base fiction on things that really happened.  And the book isn't about a breakup.  It's about crime, addiction and the drug trade.  My main character's name, gender, age, etc is all different from hers. 

 

Hi Cynder, is your mom advising you to talk to an attorney who specializes in publishing/copyrights? Have you actually thought about this or have done this? It sounds like you are confident that you can't get in trouble for using someone's historical experiences as material for your novel.

[ShySoul]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

she already resents that I do these things.  If she finds out I wrote a novel that she inspired she will be really disgusted.  I know I shouldn't care.  But it will get twisted around into me being a horrible person and her being an angel to everyone she knows (and we have mutual friends.) 

If you don't have contact with her anymore, and especially in light of how terribly she treated you, what difference does it make what her reaction is? A person who twists everything around so that they are the victim and the other person is guilty, will do it regardless of what you say or do. Being concerned about it is still giving them power of you, handing them another opportunity to hurt you. It's not worth your time or the mental and emotional anguish. They are the one with the issue, and they are the one who will be stuck complaining over and over again. Meanwhile, you have done something to be proud of and shouldn't let the opinion of one stuck up and messed up person get to you. 

As for what your mutual friends think - if they are really friends they will be proud of you and happy for your success. They shouldn't let one person's opinion sway them. And they probably know what kind of person she is and to not take her ramblings to seriously. 

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

And not only am I pissed at her, but I'm pissed at myself for allowing her to inspire me this way. 

That's being a writer. You take inspiration wherever you find. I'm actually impressed. You took a crappy situation and found a way to turn it into something creative and meaningful. As you said, it's not like you copied everything from her. You took a story she told you freely on her own and used it as the genesis of something that sprung from your own mind. You have nothing to be mad at yourself for.

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

I've wanted to text her and tell her what a POS she is, etc.  I won't do that because it won't solve anything,

The best revenge is moving on and not letting her nonsense get to you anymore. She'll still be stuck with her. Although part of me always has liked the idea of writing somethng and dedicating it to certain people who hurt me. Write it in such a way that it shows how little they seem to be now and how over it I am. As that great poet of our times Taylor Swift (🤨) put it:

With that same big, loud opinion / But nobody's listening
Washed up and ranting about the same old bitter things
...But all you are is mean

[Cynder]

10 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

Hi Cynder, is your mom advising you to talk to an attorney who specializes in publishing/copyrights? Have you actually thought about this or have done this? It sounds like you are confident that you can't get in trouble for using someone's historical experiences as material for your novel.

I don't see how it's possible to get in trouble over that. 

If I said, "One time I went to a birthday party where some people got drunk and played strip poker." And someone I know is writing a book and they decide to write a scene involving a birthday party where people got drunk and played strip poker because what I said inspired them, I couldn't take legal action against them.  And I wouldn't even want to because that's ridiculous. 

If someone gets in a fight with their SO in a book, does that mean every single person who has ever gotten in a fight with their SO could go after the author? 

If someone orders pizza in a book, does that mean someone else could be like, "OMG!  I order pizza all the time!  This author obviously used my historical experience in their book.  I'm calling a lawyer!" 

People get ideas from all kinds of sources.  There are 38 chapters in this book.  One chapter is based on a story she told me.  And I even took a lot of liberties with that.  What happens in the book is a lot more violent than what she said actually happened. 

Jack Ketchum wrote an entire novel that was based on/inspired by the torture and murder of Sylvia Likens. He changed the names of the characters and added some things to make it his own story, But it was still based on something that really happened. I don't think a lot of people understand how creative people get ideas.  Life creates art.  

 

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

If you don't have contact with her anymore, and especially in light of how terribly she treated you, what difference does it make what her reaction is? A person who twists everything around so that they are the victim and the other person is guilty, will do it regardless of what you say or do. Being concerned about it is still giving them power of you, handing them another opportunity to hurt you. It's not worth your time or the mental and emotional anguish. They are the one with the issue, and they are the one who will be stuck complaining over and over again. Meanwhile, you have done something to be proud of and shouldn't let the opinion of one stuck up and messed up person get to you. 

As for what your mutual friends think - if they are really friends they will be proud of you and happy for your success. They shouldn't let one person's opinion sway them. And they probably know what kind of person she is and to not take her ramblings to seriously. 

That's being a writer. You take inspiration wherever you find. I'm actually impressed. You took a crappy situation and found a way to turn it into something creative and meaningful. As you said, it's not like you copied everything from her. You took a story she told you freely on her own and used it as the genesis of something that sprung from your own mind. You have nothing to be mad at yourself for.

The best revenge is moving on and not letting her nonsense get to you anymore. She'll still be stuck with her. Although part of me always has liked the idea of writing somethng and dedicating it to certain people who hurt me. Write it in such a way that it shows how little they seem to be now and how over it I am. As that great poet of our times Taylor Swift (🤨) put it:

With that same big, loud opinion / But nobody's listening
Washed up and ranting about the same old bitter things
...But all you are is mean

True, she's going to be disgusted either way.  And it's not like she never did anything to disgust me.  So, I'll let her be disgusted.  It's not my problem. 

It would be pretty hilarious if she ranted and raved about it all over social media (something she does whenever she wants attention or thinks someone wronged her) and as a result a bunch of people who wouldn't have even known about it otherwise went and bought the book.  Then I could silently thank her for increasing my book sales.  🙂

I lost a lot of long term friendships because of her.  The friends she didn't turn against me won't take her side in this, if it even comes down to sides. 

I'm not sure what Taylor Swift song that's from but I might have to look up the full lyrics.  It hits the nail right on the head. 

[LootieTootie]

Thanks, Cynder. I was just curious. My husband has thought about writing a novel, loosely based on his childhood and crazy family. Reading your post, I saw that your mom mentioned being in trouble and could see some of his siblings not liking the book idea.

[ShySoul]

1 minute ago, Cynder said:

People get ideas from all kinds of sources.  There are 38 chapters in this book.  One chapter is based on a story she told me

I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think there would be a problem. There would have to be proof you took it from her and not some other source. There would need to be overwhelming similiaities. And I don't imagine anything you've written would be directly damaging to her.

My friend was telling me recently about a video she saw where one song sampled another. Even though it seemed liked the song just copied based on listening to it, the video explained how it was perfectly fine and legal. I imagine there a lot of leeway given in the name of creative freedom.

[ShySoul]

1 minute ago, Cynder said:

I'm not sure what Taylor Swift song that's from but I might have to look up the full lyrics.  It hits the nail right on the head. 

The song is Mean, based off a reviewer who wrote she coudn't sing. So she turned it into song about how some people are just cruel and will always be pathetic. Meanwhile, she's successful and won a Grammy for the song. Now that's perfect revenge. 

[Cynder]

2 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think there would be a problem. There would have to be proof you took it from her and not some other source. There would need to be overwhelming similiaities. And I don't imagine anything you've written would be directly damaging to her.

My friend was telling me recently about a video she saw where one song sampled another. Even though it seemed liked the song just copied based on listening to it, the video explained how it was perfectly fine and legal. I imagine there a lot of leeway given in the name of creative freedom.

Yea, and honestly, the chapter I wrote that was based on a story she told me doesn't paint her in a positive light at all.  As a teenager she was offered a pretty decent amount of money to go beat a girl up.  And she took the money but then (according to her) never went through with the assault.  In the book, the fight happens.  So, even if she did get her hands on a copy and see the similarities, she would have to admit to people that she accepted money to beat someone up.  And then on top of that she never beat the person up and took the money anyway.  So it makes her look like a scumbag on multiple levels. 

There is a lot of leeway when it comes to that kind of stuff.  Every year at festivals, I always get at least one person trying to tell me about the dangers of copyright infringement because I've painted popular characters in my style.  George Lucas isn't going to waste his time coming after me over the psychedelic Yoda I painted.  It's not illegal to make your own interpretation of another character.  That's how people get away with fan art, fanfiction, etc.  I'm sure in some cases technically some legal action could be taken.  But most of these big time creators won't bother.  Like George Lucas, for example, he's already a millionaire.  He doesn't need to come after someone like me.  He would probably spend more in legal fees than he would get.  

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Cynder said:

As an adult I'm a business owner and I'm a professional artist.  She had a real issue with these things.  She would complain about how I've lived such a better life. 

This is what Z needed to tell herself to obfuscate the reality that your choices were just better than hers. And they continued be long after she spent her time getting drunk or gaming instead of investing in herself. She may have started out your relationship as inspired by you, but when she recognized that she didn't have the same talent for hustle, she just started drinking more and making you out to be 'the bad guy'. That's her problem, not yours.

4 hours ago, Cynder said:

I used some things from her childhood in my main character's background.  But nothing too specific.  Like, her dad was a coal minor.  My character's Dad is a coal minor, etc.  There are lot's of coal minors' children walking around. 

Since you're editing now with less sentimentality toward Z, maybe you can tweak more things like this to be less blatantly personal to her if you were reading it through her eyes. For instance, does the coal miner figure prominently in the story, or could he be a mill worker, or a car factory inspector, or could he be a mechanic?

While there are some things that may need to follow true to her story, the more details you can change, the less likely you will be to suffer anxiety once editing is no longer an option. That's the thing about committing something to publication--the thing leaves your control. Well, do you want to set yourself up to obsess about this once you can't do anything about it?

I get that it 'shouldn't' matter what Z thinks of your writing, and while I agree with that in theory, in reality, you're the one with the OCD. So do you want to set yourself up to spin out after publication and start fearing running into her or people who know her? How badly could that impact your life, and for how long?

I'm asking because I don't know the answers, not because I claim to know you any better than you know you. But you have the opportunity to pave an easier after-launch life for yourself, and you have the power in this moment to consider any potential consequences for yourself and steer those wisely.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

This is what Z needed to tell herself to obfuscate the reality that your choices were just better than hers. And they continued be long after she spent her time getting drunk or gaming instead of investing in herself. She may have started out your relationship as inspired by you, but when she recognized that she didn't have the same talent for hustle, she just started drinking more and making you out to be 'the bad guy'. That's her problem, not yours.

Since you're editing now with less sentimentality toward Z, maybe you can tweak more things like this to be less blatantly personal to her if you were reading it through her eyes. For instance, does the coal miner figure prominently in the story, or could he be a mill worker, or a car factory inspector, or could he be a mechanic?

While there are some things that may need to follow true to her story, the more details you can change, the less likely you will be to suffer anxiety once editing is no longer an option. That's the thing about committing something to publication--the thing leaves your control. Well, do you want to set yourself up to obsess about this once you can't do anything about it?

I get that it 'shouldn't' matter what Z thinks of your writing, and while I agree with that in theory, in reality, you're the one with the OCD. So do you want to set yourself up to spin out after publication and start fearing running into her or people who know her? How badly could that impact your life, and for how long?

I'm asking because I don't know the answers, not because I claim to know you any better than you know you. But you have the opportunity to pave an easier after-launch life for yourself, and you have the power in this moment to consider any potential consequences for yourself and steer those wisely.

I agree about what she needed to tell herself.  I think in the beginning she was inspired by me.  She bragged to her family and friends about what a good artist I am, she posted my paintings on social media, not to advertise for me, but more like, "Look how talented my girlfriend is.  She painted this today!" But that stopped over time.  And over time it went from her being sad and wishing she took her education more seriously as a kid and experiencing all this regret, to her making these passive aggressive comments to me like, "Wow, I wish I had all this free time to do art and stuff.  It must be nice."  Uh, hello...  I still work a full time job just like she did.  I just chose to spend my time on my passion and not getting drunk playing video games.  And she tried to get me to get drunk with her all the time toward the end.  It was always, "Well why don't you ever drink with me?  What do you like being a lightweight?"  Etc.  I grew up around alcoholics.  I decided a long time ago that I would never be one.  In the beginning of our relationship she was drunk one night when I was asleep, and she came downstairs and opened my bottle of very expensive wine that my grandma gave me and drank the whole thing.  I was livid.  She cried her eyes out and stopped drinking for a while because she said if drinking is going to cause her to hurt me she doesn't want to drink.  But that only lasted a few weeks and then she was drinking again a little here and there.  And then by the end of our relationship she just drank all the time.  People have asked me why I chose to get with an alcoholic.  Well, in the beginning I sincerely don't think that's what she was.  She became that when we were together and knowing that really kills me if I let myself think about it long enough.  

There are some things I could change.  The coal minor dad, yea, that isn't set in stone.  My main character and his sister have conversations about how they both hope their dad gets black lung.  But those conversations aren't essential to the story.  And Z and her sister never sat around talking about how they hoped their dad would get black lung.  Honestly, I wonder how true that even was about her dad being a coal minor.  She grew up in my area.  We went to the same high school.  There are no coal mines around here.  So, her dad being a minor could be a lie.  Either way though, I could change his job.

There are also things in my main character's childhood that were taken from my childhood.  Which I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with.  My Mom and I used to go collect milkweed at the rock quarry when I was a kid.  There's a flashback scene of my character and his Mom doing that.  I took good things from my childhood and bad things from her childhood and melded them together into my character's backstory. 

I'm sure she will probably throw a fit about the fact that I made the character male.  I did it to separate her further from him, but also because I prefer to write men.  But she will make it into some transphobic thing, I guarantee it. It will be "She made me a man to insult me!"  "She's a transphobe and that's why she made me a man in her book!"  

Gender is one thing that's not changing.  I will not change my character's gender.  And that has nothing to do with her.  I just like writing male characters. 

Thanks for your thoughts.  I appreciate it.  Happy Easter, if you celebrate it. 

[Cynder]

I'm stuck now on the idea that a big thing will be made about me making that character male.  I know this reply isn't directed at anyone, etc.  I'm just dumping a few things here to get them out of my head. 

It pisses me off that I was painted as a transphobic monster after she left when in reality I was probably her biggest supporter.  Most of her family wasn't supportive of her transitioning.  She lost friends when she came out, etc. 

She would flip so many things around.  I remember we were talking about the plastic surgery she wanted on her face.  And she asked me how I would feel about it.  I told her I want her to have the face she wants.  But I will also be a little sad when she gets it because the face she had then was the face I fell in love with.  Ok... well of course it was twisted around into me not wanting her to get the surgery.  Ok...  I was all for it.  What I'm not allowed to miss her old face?  She was drop dead gorgeous. 

She would want me to dress up more for her, so I would and then get yelled at because I'm flaunting my female body and rubbing it in her face that I have what she doesn't have.  But then if I didn't dress up and just wore jeans , etc, then it was, "Why don't you ever want to look nice for me?" 

One night while she was at work our other roommate had a friend over who started making fun of my ex and calling her an it.  I told him if he's going to refer to her as an it he can leave.  We don't talk about her that way in my house.  Our other roommate thought him calling her it was hilarious and it was me who defended her.  But after we broke up, she's blabbing all over town about what a massive transphobe I am and how our other roommate was so supportive of her.  

The perceived transphobia was the root of why some long term friends stopped being friends with me. 

It pisses me off so much that she convinced so many people that I was so against her transitioning and that I hate trans people, etc.  She's so good at playing the victim.  And in our society, people usually side with the more attractive person.  She's very good looking.  I'm ugly.  There seems to be this idea that hot people are automatically good people because they're hot. 

Oddly enough though, all the long term friends who sided with her and were really nasty to me have come back around and apologized and tried to be my friend again.  I've ignored them all.  And I'm guessing based on the fact that they came back around trying to get me back as a friend, that they aren't friends with her anymore either.  These were people who had known me for years and only met her through me. 

I just wish there was some justice for the fact that I ended up being the villain in this story when there was no evidence to back it up. 

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

People have asked me why I chose to get with an alcoholic.  Well, in the beginning I sincerely don't think that's what she was.  She became that when we were together and knowing that really kills me if I let myself think about it long enough.  

Well, that's kinda like saying it would kill you if someone became a diabetic when you were together. Also, consider that not everyone who abuses alcohol is an alcoholic, just as not everyone who is obese has an inherent obesity disease. We can't diagnose the genetics, biology or predisposition of others. That's outside our scope, and so is any blame for their behavior.

Quote

I just wish there was some justice for the fact that I ended up being the villain in this story when there was no evidence to back it up. 

Of course there is justice. Z will always need to be Z. That is a self-imposed sentence. She is her own enemy, and she leaves plenty of enemies in her wake. I understand that stirring up stuff about her is painful, but the rearview perceptions of her that you gained will return again. Try to remind yourself of those when you hurt too much. Let yourself get centered with them before you delve back in, because the more objective perspective will guide you to do your best editing.

[Cynder]

49 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Well, that's kinda like saying it would kill you if someone became a diabetic when you were together. Also, consider that not everyone who abuses alcohol is an alcoholic, just as not everyone who is obese has an inherent obesity disease. We can't diagnose the genetics, biology or predisposition of others. That's outside our scope, and so is any blame for their behavior.

Of course there is justice. Z will always need to be Z. That is a self-imposed sentence. She is her own enemy, and she leaves plenty of enemies in her wake. I understand that stirring up stuff about her is painful, but the rearview perceptions of her that you gained will return again. Try to remind yourself of those when you hurt too much. Let yourself get centered with them before you delve back in, because the more objective perspective will guide you to do your best editing.

True, she will always be her own enemy.  She has all this regret about the way she lived her life.  But she doesn't seem interested in getting off her ass and changing anything.  I have a friend who went back to school at 43 and is on her way to becoming a marine biologist.  Z seems to think she's too old to make any positive changes in her life.  I mean yea... if her dream was to be a pro athlete or a supermodel, ok, she's too old to make that happen.  But there aren't many jobs that demand youth and perfect health. She really wanted to get back into being a chef, since that was her passion.  But she wouldn't actually go an apply for jobs in that field.  And the city we live in has a lot of upscale restaurants.  She really could have flourished. 

She holds herself back.  She has the talent to do the things she wants but she wants to stay down and continue being a victim.  She projected so much of her self hate onto me.  I don't think she actually wants to fully transition, even.  She doesn't commit to her transition like other trans people I know.  She only takes her hormones sporadically.  She presents as masculine about 95% of the time and then gets mad when someone calls her he or sir.  She makes appointments with doctors for things involving her transition and then doesn't go to them.  She acts so upset that her dead name is still on her driver's license, but has made zero effort to legally change her name. She came out 8 years ago.  She's had ample time to change her name. And then she would turn around and yell at me for not wanting her to transition.  Man...  I think I wanted her to transition more than anyone because I just wanted her to be happy.  And I know this probably doesn't make sense.  But she is the first to scream transphobia at any perceived slight.  But I think deep down she a transphobic. I think she doesn't like what she is and instead of just admitting that she projects it onto everyone else so she can play the victim.   

And to me, her life was so interesting.  She was a chef in New Orleans at a high end Cajun bistro.  She was in multiple bands.  She's been all over the country.  To me, she was the one who lived an interesting and inspiring life.  I felt like I was the boring one in the relationship.  I felt like she was so out of my league.  I wondered what I did to get such an amazing partner. 

But...  now that I'm distant enough to see what she really is, she can't keep a job.  She doesn't keep friends.  She has a shaky relationship with her family.  Since we broke up there have been 4 relationships that I know of.  And those are just the ones I know of.  I don't stalk her facebook, etc.  The only reason I know about the relationship she's currently in is because her SO and I have like 38 mutual friends. Her SO has come up on my suggested friends list and their profile pic is them kissing Z.  And the other ones I know about because she told me when we were still talking. 

So yea... that is a valid point.  She hates herself and probably will always hate herself.  She pushes everyone away.

And I also like the diabetic analogy.  For a while I blamed myself for her drinking because L has a drinking problem and L was always encouraging Z to drink more.  But again... how's that my fault?   I didn't force booze down anyone's throat.  I guess I should also be proud of myself for not developing my own drinking problem in all that.  Because both my parents and two of my grandparents and several of my aunts/uncles are alcoholics.  Neither Z or L have alcoholic parents.  I was probably the most at risk and I stuck to my boundaries. 

I remember one of the last nights we were together, Z was outside all trashed slurring her words, and she was being nasty to me because she was in one of her mean drunk moods.  Her teeth were all gross because she hadn't brushed them in days.  And she was in dirty sweatpants and her hair was all messy.  And she was going off on me about something in my backyard, and she tripped and fell down the embankment behind my house and rolled into the creek. It's only like a 5 foot embankment, and it's not that steep.  So she didn't hurt herself or anything, but she got soaked. But she's all drunk yelling at me and looking like hell one minute and then she's rolling down the embankment the next.  I know I shouldn't but looking back at that it's actually pretty funny.  Maybe the next time I feel angry I should just think about that. 

[Batya33]

In my city and my former city there is a nonprofit organization that gives free legal advice to artists who can't afford legal advice and as you have written and as is common knowledge many artists cannot! If you start to be concerned perhaps in your city that could be a resource -you might not get a definitive answer but some guidance on what the boundaries are.  

[Cynder]

I am kind of using this thread as a dumping ground for the feelings I've been having about her, sorry if that irritates anyone. 

But one thing I kept thinking about last night...  Z and I were friends on Facebook for years before we dated.  I met her through some mutual friends.  And toward the end of our relationship, she had a habit of throwing stuff I said on Facebook before we ever even dated in my face.  It wasn't stuff about other people I dated or anything.  It was stuff like, "I remember once you posted this really stupid meme... and I thought only a *r word* would think that was funny!"  Or she would talk about things I supposedly said on Facebook that I don't remember saying.  I would tell her "I don't remember ever posting anything like that."  And it was always, "Well you did! I remember it!"  I just remember thinking, ok, even if I did, does it matter?  She would talk about stuff I supposedly said years ago that she was so offended by. 

I'm not a psychologist... not by far.  And I could be way off here.  But the more I look back on things now that I'm not blinded by love, it seems like she just had to point out everything wrong with me just so she didn't have to look at herself.  She did resent me, that was really clear.  She straight up told me it pissed her off that I live such a better life.  In reality my life is no better than hers.  I went to college on a full ride.  She commented on that a few times, saying things like, "I could have gone far in life too if someone would have handed me a free education."  Ok, I worked my ass off for my scholarship and I had to maintain an almost perfect GPA to keep it.  I didn't have the college experience that a lot of people have.  I didn't live in a dorm, I couch surfed through most of college and lived out of a suitcase, while having to maintain that high GPA.  I didn't spend four years drinking and partying and hooking up with random people, etc.  My college years weren't easy just because I didn't have to pay to go.  So my theory is, she pointed out everything wrong with me, and even made up some things, just to not feel so bad about herself.  My hygiene was another thing... No one before her has ever complained about my hygiene.  I bathe regularly.  I wear clean clothes, etc.  The first 6 months we were together, she's always telling me how good I smell.  The suddenly I stink.  Nothing changed in my routine.  And she wants me to shower twice a day.  So I do.  I showered when I woke up, and then when I got home from work.  Well soon she wants a shower before bed too.  And she started telling me I can't sit on her bed because she doesn't want her bedding to stink.  Then there are nights where even after three showers that day, we lay down in bed, and she wants me to go take another shower because I stink. How?  If I stink after three showers that day, than there's more going on than just hygiene issues.  I think it was just her way of picking at me so she could feel better. 

I came home from work today and a good friend of mine messaged me.  I think The Universe wanted me to have this conversation.  This friend of mine and Z have a connection.  Z and ,y friend's boyfriend used to be friends/roommates.  Z screwed this guy out of a lot of money by not paying rent/her share of the bills.  (She always paid rent when she lived here, I guess I'm lucky there.)  Z also threw a huge fit and accused this guy of putting sugar in her gas tank, which he didn't do, but someone did.  This was all recent too, it's not like this happened 20 years ago.  This guy also had young kids, and he had a real issue with Z sitting around the house drinking all the time and being drunk around his kids. None of that surprises me. 

But something that is pretty disturbing...  I know who Z's current SO is, like I know their name.  But I don't actually know them.  We have a lot of mutual friends on FB, and they come up on my suggested friends sometimes.  Well, this person she's with now is mentally disabled.  Their disability is severe enough that they get disability, it's bad enough that they can't work. So, they are like Z's dream partner.  Someone who is probably easily manipulated, someone who likely has low self esteem because of the way society treats disabled people.  And someone with a steady income.  I know I shouldn't assume.  I just know how predatory people take advantage of the mentally disabled.  This person is probably handing over their disability money and Z is probably using it to buy booze and then gaslighting them into thinking that isn't what happened.  I feel so bad for them if this is actually happening.  My friend told me this person's Mom has tried to step in and stop it, but since this person is an adult not much can be done.  I know it's not my place, but I feel really icky about that situation.  I'm not in it.  But it's still not a good situation.  I just hope she doesn't completely destroy this person. 

[Cynder]

I was getting really tired yesterday and didn't have the energy to go into everything.  But a common thread int his guys stories, that I also experienced a lot, was her tendency to just make things up that never happened and get really mad about those things. 

Like, once she was in the bathroom and I was standing outside the room and asked her something through the bathroom door.  I think I said I was going to the store and asked if she wanted anything, something like that.  We weren't arguing.  It was just a trial question.  Later on that night she suddenly was furious with me because she said I just walked in on her without knocking when she was using the bathroom.  I kept telling her I didn't do that.  And she kept insisting I did.  In my head I'm thinning, "Are you on crack?" 

She got really mad at me another time because she claimed I tried to kiss her first thing in the morning.  She hated kissing before brushing her teeth.  Ok, that's fine.  I can respect that boundary.  And so I never tried to kiss her before she brushed her teeth.  Well she kept insisting I did this one time.  And that time I was even second guessing myself.  I'm standing here thinking, "Did I?  Maybe I just didn't think about it..."  But I kept going over and over what I remembered in my head and I couldn't remember trying to kiss her.  And to a person with OCD, this is straight up dangerous. 

This wasn't something she did every day.  It only happened a handful of times.  But once in a while, she would just pull something out of her ass and throw a fit about it.  Idk... maybe she needed conflict.  Maybe her way of thinking was "I think I'll start a fight today just because I'm bored."  Or maybe all the drinking is literally giving her brain damage.  That happens to alcoholics.  And I was the only person she did this to, too.  I never saw her do it to anyone else. 

But the point I'm making here...  This guy, who is now dating my friend, who was her roommate for over a year, he told me she used to do that to him and his wife too.  She would get really mad about stuff that NEVER happened.  It reminds me of the night she was convinced I went to her house and messed with the painting I gave her.  I didn't even know where she lived but trying to point that out and have any kind of logical conversation was impossible.  Nope, I came to her house int he middle of the night, while she was there, and messed with a painting, and she didn't see me.  I know it's hard to understand but stuff like that creeps me out.  Like it actually seems scary to me the way a horror movie is scary.  I've had some of my more religious friends tell me they think she's evil.  I even know one person who actually thinks she's demon possessed.  I don't believe in any of that, but it's interesting that people who do think those things about her.  I've had people tell me there's just nothing behind her eyes.  That was something I never thought.  I always thought she had really intense eyes.  And they are really clear blue. 

Hearing all this stuff from someone else who also experienced it was really validating.  I'm really glad this whole conversation happened yesterday morning and even into the evening last night when I was up, too. 

I still remember when we would sit outside and I would take my blutooth speaker out there.  Nothing I played was ever right, unless it was something she specifically asked me to play.  I remember one night I just had it on playlist radio on spotify, and it was playing a mix of all kinds of stuff.  And Under Pressure by Queen came on.  And she was talking about how she would have had so much respect for me if this was Ice Ice baby.  She got all excited thinking this was Ice Ice Baby.  Why am I playing Under Pressure.  That's lame and stupid.  I told her I didn't pick it.  Spotify did.  She said, "Yea, but it's your account!"  So I stopped Under Pressure, and put on Ice Ice Baby.  Then she started saying all the same stuff but about Ice Ice Baby and how much she wishes I was playing Under Pressure.  What does she get out of messing with a person's head like this?  That night I just shut the music off and went inside.  I left her sitting out there by the fire put by herself.  I just didn't feel like playing her stupid games. 

I wonder why I ever wanted her back after she left.  That's my issue to figure out.  She's not a good person.  At least the character I based on her is a decent human being, even though morally ambiguous.

And to anyone confused about the Under Pressure/Ice Ice Baby thing... they are two songs that sound a lot alike in the intro. 

 

[Batya33]

Love both those songs.  I also loved the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.

[mylolita]

What you genuinely have to ask yourself is, not why you wanted her back - but why you got involved with her in the first place?

 

Sometimes, it pays dividend to look back at our dating history, and take an honest evaluation of all the mistakes and bad relationships we have found ourselves getting in and having to go through the break ups of.

 

A few years dysfunction in a bad relationship seems to need 8 years of personal strife to unpack and get over. Ideally, it’s best to not go there in the first place. 
 

Maybe the analysis should not be aimed at the ex or their actions, but actually inwardly, at yourself and your actions? Or we will keep repeating the same cycle in slightly different ways!

 

All the best

 

x

[SooSad33]

Yeah, sadly it seems so, that she's still consuming you because of what you did .. ( this book) , which has come to 're hash' some emotions once again .... right?

You've been damaged by her.  Traumatized 😞 . Yes, I agree with some therapy to help you along, as it's obvious you're still fuming over your past. It's never good to sit in anger etc for so long.  I learned this years ago .  I did a few years of therapy ( more than once) , to 'work through my issues'. Yes, it does help 🙂 .

On 3/30/2024 at 8:02 PM, Cynder said:

My ex ghosted me out of nowhere.  She moved out when I was at work.  I never got any closure in this situation and she never offered an explanation.  She came back into my life 5 months later and claimed she wanted to talk about things.  But in reality all she wanted was for me to tell her everything's okay and that I forgive her so she could clear her conscience.  A few times she would do this, come back around and act like she wanted to clear the air.  And usually she would blow up at me over nothing and disappear for a few more months.  I am willing to own my mistakes.  I'm not exaggerating when I say she blew up over nothing.  The last time I talked to her (almost two years ago) she mentioned she was going to look at an apartment.  I asked her how looking at the apartment went and she flipped her crap on me and cussed me out.  Then the next day told me she was just drunk. 

Proof here with her ongoing behaviour ( assisted by alcohol & mental instability). Sadly, sometimes we NEED to learn the hard way 😕 .  My first ex is an alcy , was not a nice experience & was hard to work on accepting it all and getting out of it. Took a good couple of years - but I worked through it and am well over all of that now 🙂 . 

Life is an experience I often say. We live & we learn.  Also, I feel, as we get older, we become more aware of the 'red flags'.  Yeah, when I was out in the dating world, I came across a couple guys who'd go from coffee to beer every day! 😕 * gag* .  Immediate turn off....

So, do as you mentioned, get into therapy to work through this issue that has plagued your life & happiness and I believe in time, you WILL come to feel okay again and more yourself - as you should be!  A decent, successful man who's got a lot of good values! 🙂 

One day at a time.   Good luck

[catfeeder]

13 hours ago, Cynder said:

Or maybe all the drinking is literally giving her brain damage.  That happens to alcoholics. 

Yep, alcohol abuse shows up differently in people depending on their weak spot. Some people tank in terms of the liver, or the stomach, or the heart, but the most noticeable impact on some people is the brain.

My Dad drank every day, but I never saw him 'drunk' during all those years except for two specific occasions. At age 50 he still had the healthy liver of a teenager, and yet something alarming started happening. He'd tell you a joke--then a half hour later, he'd tell you the same joke. Thankfully, this healed when he went into rehab, but it's not always reversible.

Add psychological problems to this, and a nasty drunk can even turn psychotic. So Z was hearing or seeing or smelling or imagining things that never happened. Given that she was already resentful of your comparative success, she started coming out sideways on you--over nothing. Essentially, she was abusive to you.

As a go-to memory, the next time you might feel at all sentimental about her, remind yourself how you felt about her when she verbally attacked you and ended up down the embankment.

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

Yeah, sadly it seems so, that she's still consuming you because of what you did .. ( this book) , which has come to 're hash' some emotions once again .... right?

You've been damaged by her.  Traumatized 😞 . Yes, I agree with some therapy to help you along, as it's obvious you're still fuming over your past. It's never good to sit in anger etc for so long.  I learned this years ago .  I did a few years of therapy ( more than once) , to 'work through my issues'. Yes, it does help 🙂 .

Proof here with her ongoing behaviour ( assisted by alcohol & mental instability). Sadly, sometimes we NEED to learn the hard way 😕 .  My first ex is an alcy , was not a nice experience & was hard to work on accepting it all and getting out of it. Took a good couple of years - but I worked through it and am well over all of that now 🙂 . 

Life is an experience I often say. We live & we learn.  Also, I feel, as we get older, we become more aware of the 'red flags'.  Yeah, when I was out in the dating world, I came across a couple guys who'd go from coffee to beer every day! 😕 * gag* .  Immediate turn off....

So, do as you mentioned, get into therapy to work through this issue that has plagued your life & happiness and I believe in time, you WILL come to feel okay again and more yourself - as you should be!  A decent, successful man who's got a lot of good values! 🙂 

One day at a time.   Good luck

For a long time she wasn't.  I've even been in another relationship since then.  My most recent ex is an amazing person and we are still friends.  So it's like whiplash.  I felt like I was completely over her for a while there.  Editing these later chapters in the book is making me think about her again because I wrote them right after she left.  

Since you've been through something similar you probably  understand better than others. Everyone is on their best behavior in the beginning.  The first 6 months or so I rarely saw her drink.  She's obviously someone who can hide it well when trying to reel someone in.  And she's really hot so she always finds a new partner.  

I don't trust my own judgment anymore with people.  There are so many people out there who check all the right boxes, but turn out to be awful people once you get to know them.  

My siblings both have a similar history to mine.  We were raised around substance abuse and violence.  So we've all spent our lives trying to be better than that.  And we're not violent substance abusers. But none of us can seem to get relationships right. My parents were alcoholics and they were together 15 years.  Then when they split up it was about a month before my mom had some new guy living with us who was an alcoholic and a drug addict. Before her i'd never dated anyone who was in active addiction.   I dated a recovered addict once.  And his whole life was about recovery.  He went to NA meets several times a week.  He was ride or die.  And my most recent ex is a recovered addict.  Beating addiction is so hard and I have mad respect for anyone  who has done it.  Even my Mom.  She quit drinking in 2016.  Unfortunately I don't think Z will ever kick the habit.  And I think she's starting to experience early symptoms of dementia from drinking.  So much wasted potential.  My step dad was the same way.  He was an insanely talented artist.  But he drank all that away.  

I'm going to talk to my therapist about this next week.  I really have been trying hard to think of this as a positive thing.  I took a bad experience and performed creative alchemy.  

Thank you.

[Cynder]

14 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Yep, alcohol abuse shows up differently in people depending on their weak spot. Some people tank in terms of the liver, or the stomach, or the heart, but the most noticeable impact on some people is the brain.

My Dad drank every day, but I never saw him 'drunk' during all those years except for two specific occasions. At age 50 he still had the healthy liver of a teenager, and yet something alarming started happening. He'd tell you a joke--then a half hour later, he'd tell you the same joke. Thankfully, this healed when he went into rehab, but it's not always reversible.

Add psychological problems to this, and a nasty drunk can even turn psychotic. So Z was hearing or seeing or smelling or imagining things that never happened. Given that she was already resentful of your comparative success, she started coming out sideways on you--over nothing. Essentially, she was abusive to you.

As a go-to memory, the next time you might feel at all sentimental about her, remind yourself how you felt about her when she verbally attacked you and ended up down the embankment.

Omg her falling down In the creek was hilarious.  I know it shouldn't be but looking back it was.  When that happened she crawled back up the embankment all wet and laid down and just started bawling.  And I laid down on the ground next to her and held her.  And it wasn't just like crying because she hurt herself (because she did, she got all scratched up and hit her shoulder on a rock.) But this was like serious crying.  I laid there with her for like ten minutes and then helped her into the house.

The roommate she had after moving out of here (he's the guy who is now dating a friend of mine.) He's a pretty successful business owner.  And so she probably had all the same resentment for him.  

She hates it when people are doing better than her.  But she could probably ly out shine most people if she applies herself.  And she probably knows that deep down. 

  

  

 

[SooSad33]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

My siblings both have a similar history to mine.  We were raised around substance abuse and violence.  So we've all spent our lives trying to be better than that.  And we're not violent substance abusers. But none of us can seem to get relationships right. My parents were alcoholics and they were together 15 years.  Then when they split up it was about a month before my mom had some new guy living with us who was an alcoholic and a drug addict

Wow 😕 , that's rough .... sorry you had to endure that experience.  I had friends with parents like this. They also had a few challenging relationships - so it does cause an effect.

Unreal though, that your mom would continue relationships with the same issues ... but then again, I guess it isn't, since she was one, herself. *sigh* 😞   No one can get 'better' until they rid of stuff like this in their lives.

So glad you've all turned out better than this ( as risk is always there to also become an alcy if you have alcy parents) .

 

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

Unfortunately I don't think Z will ever kick the habit.  And I think she's starting to experience early symptoms of dementia from drinking.  So much wasted potential.  My step dad was the same way.  He was an insanely talented artist.  But he drank all that away.  

I'm going to talk to my therapist about this next week.  I really have been trying hard to think of this as a positive thing.  I took a bad experience and performed creative alchemy.  

Nope, she may not.  Not if it's either her 'crutch' .. or addiction. She can quit IF she actually wakes up and chooses to get clean.  Maybe be a while still though, if she even does.

Yup, go for it.  Go face the reality of all of this on what's got you wound up with everything and get it dealt with!  Good on you 🙂 .

 

[Cynder]

One other thing that I've been thinking about lately...  I keep wanting tow rite about it here, but I always think about it when I'm not in front of the computer. 

After we broke up and she would come around and want to talk through things... it was always framed almost like what she did was completely random and out of her control.  It was always, "I'm so sorry I did that to you of all people because you're such a good person."  "I feel so bad that you had to go through that because you didn't deserve it."  Ok...  but she chose to act that way. 

This reminds me of these stories you hear where something really violent like a shootout between rival gangs breaks out somewhere and someone who had nothing to do with any of it just happened to be nearby minding their own business and they got shot and killed too.  Or a drunk driver who hit an innocence Mom and her baby.  It's like that's the way she wants me to see all of this.  "Oh it sucks so much that you just happened to be in my line of fire at the time.  But I'm completely innocent!"  In those other situations the drunk driver and the gang members aren't innocent, though. 

Everyone is always so sorry after the fact.  I must be a rare breed because I actually think about my actions before doing them.  All the friends she turned against me have apologized and tried to salvage their friendship with me.  I've politely told them all no, because they made their choice.  They chose her, so they can live with that choice.  I don't care how much they miss me as a friend.  She's not friends with any of them anymore.  (At least according to them, they all told me during these conversations, "I don't even talk to her anymore!") I'm just going on what people said.  Before people start accusing me of keeping tabs on everyone. 

But her saying things and acting like this was all just a random tragedy and I was just the unlucky one really pisses me off.  She can't even own what she did. 

She tried to tell me once that she went to therapy and the therapist was so amazed with her level of insight that he told her she should be a therapist.  I seriously doubt that.  But that's her reason for not going to therapy.  She thinks she doesn't need it and that she has everyone and everything figured out.  She tried to convince me more than once that I'm bipolar.  No therapist I've ever seen has ever suggest I'm bipolar, and I don't have manic episodes.  But Z knows everything. She should be a therapist. If a therapist really did tell her that, I wonder if he regretted it after.  Because I could see a therapist telling a patient something like, "Well since you're interested in learning about the mind, have you considered going into psychology?" Or something like that because she is really interested in knowing about the mind.  But I think if something like that was ever said, she took it way out of context.