Holding On To Anger...

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

To live in the present and embrace that uncertainty.

Can that be applied to your situation with your ex? To just decide "today I will not entertain anything my ex tries to bait me with" and not worry about how you might feel tomorrow?

I'm sorry about your miscarriages. I have also experienced pregnancy losses. 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

Can that be applied to your situation with your ex? To just decide "today I will not entertain anything my ex tries to bait me with" and not worry about how you might feel tomorrow?

Thank you, let me think about that!  "Bait" is a great word, sort of like what @yogacatsaid about it being a manipulation.

I need to hang on to that!  For today.  Tomorrow I may feel completely differently, to point of perhaps even feeling indifference.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I'm sorry about your miscarriages. I have also experienced pregnancy losses

Thank you Bolt.  And my condolences for your losses as well. 😔

[yogacat]

13 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

After my second miscarriage, which happened at or around the same time my brother passed away, my husband sort of "abandoned" me (for lack of a better word), he was gone all the time under the guise of "working," then I discovered he was cheating.

I have never shared this before, not sure why now, but it feels good sharing it because it's bringing me back to the place where I felt my initial anger, and it actually feels good as odd as it sounds.

A little background on me.  I was raised by a "narcissistic" mom (for lack of a better way to describe her), she was extremely hot and cold, to the point of at times being abusive (mentally/physically) to at other times, being kind, warm, loving.  

I never knew what mood she would be in and my entire childhood was me feeling anxious, on edge and there being A LOT of chaos.

During the times she was abusive, I shut down and numbed myself.  During the times she was kind and loving (like any "normal" mom should be), I built her up to be the absolute BEST mom in the world!

So, as an adult, I subconsciously sought out that same dynamic in my romantic relationships.

My current boyfriend is actually the first man where this is NOT that dynamic.  I struggle with that sometimes, but I am not leaving.  I am currently back in therapy to sort all these things out.

Apologize if that's TMI.  For some reason, I feel like writing this all out, kind of like a journal.

Thanks for listening!  

No worries.

You're perfectly fine where you are. 

I am so sorry for your loss. That is heartbreaking. I can’t even imagine the pain you are feeling. I’m so sorry your husband has failed you when you needed his support the most. 

I can relate to your experience of being raised by a volatile parent. My mom was an addict and my dad was verbally and emotionally and physically abusive when I was a kid. Just like yours.

There’s such a simple explanation that our brains cling to what is familiar, even if it’s unhealthy and is what we know. Thankfully we can slowly train our brains to rewire and help us find comfort in more healthy coping mechanisms. 

I’m so sad for you that you lost a child and that your husband hurt you in such a terrible time.

I'm so sorry you had such a tumultuous childhood. It's heartbreaking to think of any child going through that. 

When my ex, right before our wedding, did what he did, I didn't feel anger. I felt a sigh of relief that it was over and knew, I would be fine alone, I have many times in my life in the past!

I only felt anger when he reached out and talking about good times and how much he wanted to see me, when I have no inclination to really see let alone be in contact with him. I offered an olive branch but he just kept talking about having fun, trying to keep conversations light but I noticed I was getting quite annoyed. That's where my breaking point came. I ended up having to tell him not to contact me and made me feel a bit bad that I had to be pretty blunt. 

I think for you, when things are going great with your new guy, this is a sign for him to come back, it's just going to mess up the dynamics again. I am not sure but I know it took me time to figure out what was going on with me. Just know, you've done so much for your recovery, don't let anything change it, you need to take care off yourself now. Why would a person that hurt you should have right all of a sudden to come back and be part of your life. You are fine now, to be left on your own again.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 minutes ago, yogacat said:

No worries.

You're perfectly fine where you are. 

I am so sorry for your loss. That is heartbreaking. I can’t even imagine the pain you are feeling. I’m so sorry your husband has failed you when you needed his support the most. 

I can relate to your experience of being raised by a volatile parent. My mom was an addict and my dad was verbally and emotionally and physically abusive when I was a kid. Just like yours.

There’s such a simple explanation that our brains cling to what is familiar, even if it’s unhealthy and is what we know. Thankfully we can slowly train our brains to rewire and help us find comfort in more healthy coping mechanisms. 

I’m so sad for you that you lost a child and that your husband hurt you in such a terrible time.

I'm so sorry you had such a tumultuous childhood. It's heartbreaking to think of any child going through that. 

When my ex, right before our wedding, did what he did, I didn't feel anger. I felt a sigh of relief that it was over and knew, I would be fine alone, I have many times in my life in the past!

I only felt anger when he reached out and talking about good times and how much he wanted to see me, when I have no inclination to really see let alone be in contact with him. I offered an olive branch but he just kept talking about having fun, trying to keep conversations light but I noticed I was getting quite annoyed. That's where my breaking point came. I ended up having to tell him not to contact me and made me feel a bit bad that I had to be pretty blunt. 

I think for you, when things are going great with your new guy, this is a sign for him to come back, it's just going to mess up the dynamics again. I am not sure but I know it took me time to figure out what was going on with me. Just know, you've done so much for your recovery, don't let anything change it, you need to take care off yourself now. Why would a person that hurt you should have right all of a sudden to come back and be part of your life. You are fine now, to be left on your own again.

Thank you so much for this @yogacat, truly.  And I am sorry for what you have experienced as well.

Yes I have done a lot of recovery work, it's a work in progress tbh.  My current boyfriend has been through similar and he's further along on his recovery than I and actually now counsels men who struggle with abusive toxic backgrounds and relationships.  

And he helps me too, and I help him, in different ways.

It's amazing how "connected" we all truly are and when we share things like this, how it enables us to come together and view each other in a completely different light and appreciate each other and our experiences.  💛

 

 

 

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you, this is my feeling as well lolita!  

I am/was okay with the anger, the issue now for me is that I just received a very warm and caring letter from him, a hand-written letter in the mail as I refused to speak with him.  He apologized for not being there for me, for stepping out on our marriage, for everything, and wants a second chance.

I feel my anger lifting and me softening up a bit, and old feelings starting to creep up and I don't want that -- I felt better being angry at him because it was easier staying away as I don't think I could ever trust him again and am very happy with my current boyfriend.

Evening Rainbows!

 

I’m glad I’m not alone! 
 

Ah! The letter! So underhand, especially now you have told us about the background. Rip it up and ignore it. It’s terrible he has the gall to try and appease his own conscience by hurting yours! 
 

And, I am so sorry to hear about your brother, and your loss. I fortunately have never experienced a miscarriage or losing a sibling but, I hear so many women mention this and have to go on brushing it under the rug as if nothing happened. It’s a shame. The whole thing almost never gets processed because of this “forget and move on and shut up” expectation.

 

Your situation with your ex husband slightly reminds me of my middle Aunt. She was 31 and her third boy, a tiny baby, had been born with a hole in his heart and had estimated only a month to live. She was young and beautiful and married to a partner at a law firm. He was, at her most vulnerable time, trite as it is, having an affair with his secretary. I don’t think she ever got over the betrayal, and her third boy sadly didn’t make it. She is just starting to get her life turned around in a positive way and she is now in her early 70s. 
 

You have come very far. A little anger is good, fine and justified. Don’t even open anymore letters if they come, throw them straight out! 
 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

You have come very far. A little anger is good, fine and justified. Don’t even open anymore letters if they come, throw them straight out! 

Good advice!  😍

[Andrina]

Well, your divorce happened not too long ago if I remember what you previously wrote. During this time period, all your mixed emotions are normal. His recent letter likely reminded you of who you once thought he was, in his kindest and loving moments.

I was in a mentally abusive first marriage, though for different reasons. He never cheated. Though I was way beyond never wanting to get back together with him, there was a period of time I would tell people the worst stories of how he treated me, and began noticing while doing this, it would dredge up all those angry feelings as if I was experiencing the whole scene all over again.

I tired of torturing myself like that, and am at a more peaceful place since I stopped doing that. The experience of doing all that taught me something about myself, so I guess I had to go through those steps to learn that. Having known the worst of life, getting to live the chapters of my life since then have felt so much sweeter. I appreciate my present husband that much more, knowing what the flip side looked like. Just as I'm sure you're appreciating your present bf.

If you receive any more letters from the ex, I suggest shredding them, as you can see you do yourself a disservice by allowing him access to you.

I think anger can be okay if you're not being hounded by it daily. As years go by, the anger might lessen and that's okay, as long as you vow to let your brain override your heart as far as softening to him if he manages to reach out. There's also power in indifference. Give yourself time and trust you'll learn more all about how you should go about things for your best interest.

[yogacat]

4 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you so much for this @yogacat, truly.  And I am sorry for what you have experienced as well.

Yes I have done a lot of recovery work, it's a work in progress tbh.  My current boyfriend has been through similar and he's further along on his recovery than I and actually now counsels men who struggle with abusive toxic backgrounds and relationships.  

And he helps me too, and I help him, in different ways.

It's amazing how "connected" we all truly are and when we share things like this, how it enables us to come together and view each other in a completely different light and appreciate each other and our experiences.  💛

 

 

 

🙏

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

, he recently sent me a "heartfelt" letter in an attempt to reconcile, 

This takes a lot of focus, discipline and perseverance to address. Of course this type of manipulation can reopen wounds and all the anger. Hopefully you'll run it by your attorney. 

[mylolita]

As hard as it will be and as Rainbows, if more letters arrive and maybe they will, I wouldn’t even read them. Don’t open them, just get rid. New chapter! This is someone you can’t be friends with.

 

x

[Kwothe28]

I wanted to ask since I think nobody did: 

Do you think he is generally sorry for his actions? 

Sometimes people explore their past and regret their actions in general. For example, in therapy they are maybe implored to do so by therapist. So I guess my question is do you believe he is sincere in his apology? Or he just has alterior motive and wants to go back to your good side? 

[mylolita]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I wanted to ask since I think nobody did: 

Do you think he is generally sorry for his actions? 

Sometimes people explore their past and regret their actions in general. For example, in therapy they are maybe implored to do so by therapist. So I guess my question is do you believe he is sincere in his apology? Or he just has alterior motive and wants to go back to your good side? 

Interesting point Kwothe.

 

He might genuinely be sorry. I’ve never been cheated on but, I don’t know what the general consensus is re. cheaters! 
 

Once a cheat, always a cheat? 
 

I’ve never had to go through this situation so I don’t know how I would feel/react if this happened to me. Would depend on the circumstances maybe.

 

Even if he is sorry, he’s said it now I suppose and opening up old wounds is… maybe nothing good will come out of that?

 

x

[Kwothe28]

9 minutes ago, mylolita said:

He might genuinely be sorry. I’ve never been cheated on but, I don’t know what the general consensus is re. cheaters! 
 

Once a cheat, always a cheat? 

Its usually like that. Cheaters have a very strict moral code to justify cheating. For example one of my acquitances said how "once you have a pizza every day, you wish for a good burger instead". People tend to not see themselves as a "villains". So they justify their actions with their ethics being like that it allows cheating without them feeling bad about it. 

For example, think rainbow said how her ex husband accused her of cheating with her best friend. So, that could be pure projection cheaters usually do. As they think because they cheat, everybody will. Or even to justify his own actions. So its probably just him not being trully sorry about stuff if he exhibited that kind of behavior. But wanted to know what rainbow thinks. 

[boltnrun]

That's actually bringing up a good point.

What does your philosophy about being detached from the outcome of a situation say regarding the past? Does it encourage you to contemplate the past or detach from it? 

[yogacat]

I want to address the anger thing, not in a romantic context, but with my father.

I mentioned that he was abusive when I was young, and he was, but time and distance he became a changed  man. He became the epitome of what a good father should be. He was patient, loving, and supportive. 

After talking to him about it, I learned that his anger was a result of his own childhood trauma and unresolved issues. It wasn't an excuse for his behavior, but it helped me understand where it was coming from. It also taught me that even the most loving and kind people can struggle with anger and it's important to address it and seek help.

My father went to therapy and worked through his issues, and I saw a dramatic change in him. He also taught me healthy ways to handle my own anger.

I realized that anger is a natural emotion, and it's how we express it that can be unhealthy. I also learned that forgiveness plays a huge role in managing anger. Forgiving my father for his past actions and understanding his struggles helped me let go of my own anger towards him. This took many years.

So, with regard to your ex, I think it's important to acknowledge and feel your anger towards them. However, holding onto anger for too long damages you and no one else. This is still pretty fresh for you so some of this may not be applicable at time.

But, you mentioned initially, "how do you hold on to that anger towards that person (internally in a healthy way) to avoid going back to the person who hurt you?" It can't be that you *hold on* to anger to avoid getting back together.  That fire will eventually consume you.  That means you haven't moved on.

For you to hold on to anger and avoid returning to something that can never work means simply hanging on to the WRONG reason not to return. This makes it all about the anger and helping you to make right decision until it runs it course.  But, remembering that the one you were "hurt by" is not the person you want.  You don't have to hate them to avoid repeating that mistake. You have this experience as a reference point as what not to do.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

I wanted to ask since I think nobody did: 

Do you think he is generally sorry for his actions? 

Sometimes people explore their past and regret their actions in general. For example, in therapy they are maybe implored to do so by therapist. So I guess my question is do you believe he is sincere in his apology? Or he just has alterior motive and wants to go back to your good side? 

Good question @Kwothe28.  My answer is I think it's both.  I think he's sorry  (in part) but I also think it was a manipulation, in part.

If he hadn't mentioned wanting a second chance and starting over, I might view it as he's genuinely sorry, feels remorse for his actions and hopes I'm happy. 

It may have even lessened my anger towards him, myself and the entire situation!   Detach myself from it like @boltnrunhas been asking and moved on (the past is history after all), which clearly I have NOT.   And I own that.

Last night walking home, I felt myself feeling really angry again.  It's was NOT just the cheating. 

Honestly, if it was just the cheating, I could probably forgive him.  Not forget and go back, I never would no matter what, but I could be at peace with it. 

It was SO much more.  It was the timing of it, right around the time my brother got very VERY ill and finally passed and I had my second miscarriage.

HE shut down, basically disappeared emotionally.  He was also cruel during this time and said some extremely hurtful things to me, which I won't repeat but I consider a form of verbal/mental abuse. 

And an attempt to gaslight; I say "attempt" because he did not succeed in gaslighting me -- I just left! 

 I mean, what kind of person, what kind of "monster" does that? 

Anyway as you can see I am still quite angry.  Seeing my therapist on Friday. 

Last night while walking home from work, I encountered what appeared to be a mentally ill homeless man who was literally screaming at me. LOUD.

Normally I just quietly walk past and mind my business but last night, I allowed anger at my ex to get to me and I said some mean things that I feel horrible about today.  

I wish I could go back and find him and apologize but tbh he probably doesn't care.  But regardless I feel badly and it's a clear message to me, I'm NOT handling this well - at all!!

I think I'm still grieving my brother's death as well so it's lots of things combined.

 

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

35 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I mentioned that he was abusive when I was young, and he was, but time and distance he became a changed  man. He became the epitome of what a good father should be. He was patient, loving, and supportive. 

After talking to him about it, I learned that his anger was a result of his own childhood trauma and unresolved issues. It wasn't an excuse for his behavior, but it helped me understand where it was coming from. It also taught me that even the most loving and kind people can struggle with anger and it's important to address it and seek help.

Wow.  Tysm, this is exactly what happened with my mom.  I came to realize she did the best she could and at the end (she has also passed, from Cancer), we forgave each other.  I say "each other" because frankly I wasn't the best daughter either.

So it was kind of a two-way street with us.  Fortunately I had an awesome dad and we had a great relationship.

My therapist says that the dichotomy of those two types of relationships with my parents set the stage for my adult relationships.

Meaning, I'm subconsciously attracted to men like my mom (up/down, hot/cold, push/pull) but then ultimately reject them for not being kind, caring and consistently loving like my dad!!

My current boyfriend is very much like my dad, however his history is such he was like my mom but has worked through his issues and overcame them and now counsels men who struggle with same.

 

[mylolita]

This is so tough rainbows.

 

I’m so sorry to hear about your brother. Not that time really matters but, can I ask - how long ago did he pass away? 
 

I think you need to be kind to yourself because, that alone is a monumental thing to navigate through which, will never be “got over” or “worked out”. 
 

Irritable outbursts happen to everyone, for much much lesser reasons. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

 

x

[mylolita]

Who we are attracted too and gravitate towards aren’t always the best for us. 
 

x

[yogacat]

23 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Wow.  Tysm, this is exactly what happened with my mom.  I came to realize she did the best she could and at the end (she has also passed, from Cancer), we forgave each other.  I say "each other" because frankly I wasn't the best daughter either.

So it was kind of a two-way street with us.  Fortunately I had an awesome dad and we had a great relationship.

My therapist says that the dichotomy of those two types of relationships with my parents set the stage for my adult relationships.

Meaning, I'm subconsciously attracted to men like my mom (up/down, hot/cold, push/pull) but then ultimately reject them for not being kind, caring and consistently loving like my dad!!

My current boyfriend is very much like my dad, however his history is such he was like my mom but has worked through his issues and overcame them and now counsels men who struggle with same.

 

That's great that you were able to do that with your Mom. I haven't quite reached that level of forgiveness towards mine because she has hurt me so much but then again she is an addict (recovered) so I guess it's par for the course...I just have to stay detached as best as I can from her. My sister is following a similar path so it's just like having my Mom all over again. Hopefully I won't crumble.

Yes, we often subconsciously seek out partners that replicate familiar dynamics from our childhoods. And good for your current boyfriend for doing the work to overcome those issues, that takes strength and courage.

I give you a lot of credit, having dealt with so many losses, parents, miscarriages, your brother, I can't even imagine. That's an incredible amount of pain to carry.

[Jaunty]

I do not agree that holding onto anger is the way to successfully detach from a person who has wronged me.   

I agree with @Kwothe28:   volatile emotions like anger actually keep a person connected.

It's possible to "detach with love" even.   

It does take time to get past the emotional part.

Also I do not necessarily think that a person who has done wrong to another is necessarily manipulating if they reach out to make amends.  I have done that.  Taking accountability is an important part of change.

Yes, I think that almost anyone can change.  Maybe your ex has.  I hope so for his sake.

Still - this would be about his own journey.  Not yours.  You knew this man for a short time before you married and your marriage was short lived before he emotionally abandoned you when you were especially vulnerable.  This is your experience with him.  It happened, it's a fact, and you are moving forward.   

His trip in life is not really your department.  You don't have to be angry.  

Do what you say so often on here:  wish him well and keep going ... in the other direction.

 

[Kwothe28]

45 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I mean, what kind of person, what kind of "monster" does that? 

Do you think he just couldnt handle it? 

Your story reminds me on my family friend one. She married the guy, was pregnant and even had a baby. But sadly, the baby was weak, was on machines and died after 40 days. But her guy was very bad at handling that. He shut her down, close within himself and just go to work and be in his room after. So when she needed him the most, he wasnt there for her. So they separated. Tried to reconcile one time after that but just didnt work out. Your guy did way worse stuff to you. But cant imagine his journey has been smooth either. Though he really did extreme thing with cheating and all. 

Anyway, for what its worth, both my family friend and her guy found their own hapiness. Just not with each other. She found some guy and went with him in different town, they are doing fine. He encouraged her to pursue a good job and even to get a really nice promotion on it few months ago. And her ex husband found somebody else too and think they have a baby now, even though I heard his second wife had one miscarriage before that. So, I think you should maybe more look forward to the future. Rather then backward. As Ive said, lots of that stuff, including anger, can stop us from growing and moving forward. Which should be your ultimate goal. Especially with new thing going good. 

[mylolita]

Also as well, I realise this is a bit off topic but plays into looking back with heated feelings on relationships…

 

I know myself in bad friendships of the past, I look back and think, it was all my fault. My fault I picked them. I didn’t learn to recognise what was good for me or I will fully ignored the early signs of not clicking with someone or; back handed compliments and the like. Years in these “friendships” which with situational and immature. No good. And I played such a huge part in their creation and break down.

 

I am by the way, definitely NOT saying you created the excuse for being cheated on or treat the way you were rainbows, but these bad ex’s were chosen for a reason. Signs will have been there. Either unseen, ignored, reasoned away. We did something wrong; made mistakes, and contributed to the downfall of our bad relationships. 
 

It’s empowering to know we have the control to side step this next time. The lesson is to not make the same mistakes. 
 

Making a mistake is fine, is normal, is human. There being rubbish people around is normal and reality. What will help is how we interact with all this. 
 

I think part of the anger felt towards people who “did us wrong” is the realisation deep down that, we are angry at ourselves for allowing it, for not knowing, for not being able to work it all out sooner. 
 

We can learn from our anger I think and even anger directed towards ourselves can serve a lesson. 
 

No one is perfect. You’ve been through hell. Your ex husband more than anyone will know this hence his, re-appearing to say sorry is actually seeming very conceited and badly timed. Maybe he should have said sorry along time ago. Now doesn’t seem the time! 
 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

49 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But her guy was very bad at handling that. He shut her down, close within himself and just go to work and be in his room...

I can understand this^.  People handle grief in different ways.  And when one experiences a loss, they can shut down emotionally.  It's not uncommon for a couple to break up due to having experienced a mutual loss, like the death of a child or miscarriage.  They're unable to "be there" for each other, understandably. 

And honestly, if that's all it was, again I could probably forgive and let go of anger

But the verbal abuse?  His attempt to gaslight me?  That was unnecessary and cruel.  Especially given the fact I had just lost my brother! 

This is what I struggle with most. The verbal and mental abuse.  I think that is sometimes worse than physical abuse because the cruel words stick with you, they can fester within and can be difficult to shake. 

Look, I'm not trying to play victim.  I dislike playing victim and own my part in the breakdown.  I probably could have done better myself tbh. 

That said, you are absolutely right, I need to get past this, put it behind me and move forward which I was doing until I received the letter. 

P.S.  I also think my anger about this is, in part, anger at my mom for HER mental abuse growing up.  

So there's a lot of things to unravel here that has brought me to the place I'm at now. 

I see my therapist on Friday.  

Thank you again, for allowing me to open up without judgment, I really appreciate it. 😀