Me (24M) Taking time to gain clarity from this girl (29F) after 1.5 years. Would

[JZ192]

Please take the time to read and understand this post. I will do the best to articulate a precarious relationship I'm coming out of.... and I don't know if leaving was a big mistake. Please also hold any prior opinions, judgements and assumptions between yourselves. I made this post in pursuit of love and want to keep it that way. The goal is to gain clarity.
Two years ago, I (24M) met a girl (29F) in the restaurant industry. I had just come out of college a year prior, worked a dead-end office job and hated every second of it.. so I quit and went head-first into serving. I didn't really interact with this girl until a few months in. But each interaction we had was growing with random interest. I had a couple of "blonde" moments too. I accidentally calling her by a different name on one occasion, which ended up being a go-to punchline just to get her attention. Little by little, we were joking back and forth with each other and seemingly a friendship was growing.
Then one work day came along where I jokingly asked her out. I was so full of *** and 1000% expected to get turned down. She was married, with kids. Just a guy shooting his shot. I knew nothing other than what a young guy couldn't get his mind off of. And to my surprise, as I was clocking out, she dropped her number by my side without me knowing.
I had the biggest grin on my face as I ran over to one of my best friends to brag. "Hey.. look what I got.. you won't believe it!" I think I waited until very late in the evening, or the following day to reach out. I got a promising first response ... and a first date was created. The first "date" (more just a social event) was grabbing a six pack of Miller High Life and hitting the beach. There was a lowkey spot on rocks where we could kick back and share stories/get to know each other better. No intimacy. This was strictly asking questions and learning from a friend perspective. It was at this point she revealed how unhappy she was in her marriage.
My own parents had an extremely ugly divorce. She touched on her own pain points that I could directly relate to from my dad's stories. I consoled her and immediately said, "Why continue this is you're not happy? It's your life, and if you really care about your kids you won't put them through a divorce once they're older." More importantly, she noted that her husband wouldn't or hasn't changed ways for years, and leaving him was something she'd considered for a while. It just took someone to really make her realize it might be time to actually... divorce.
It felt empowering to what felt like sound advice. We further bonded on traumatic things. Her father is an extremely bad gambling addict. So is my mother. Both instances changed our families in similar ways. I felt like I really gained someone that night who understood me. We also shared a few laughs.. I could immediately tell our humor clicked. The first gathering was a big success. The young college boy wanted to take her home, completely denying any moral responsibility. I felt connected and didn't care the repercussions. She went home that night by herself, but we still kept talking. There was enough connection made for a second .... date. A Third, fourth and fifth date would follow shortly thereafter.
We would spend hours on a couch, sipping wine and sharing stories. Our deepest thoughts. Our biggest gripes with life. Wash, rinse, repeat. I've never felt more open and comfortable before in my life. Most importantly, we shared a vision for a better future. To get away from the b.s. day-job culture, and to grind life together. To have more kids, and get a new lease on life together. Be smart financially, cultivate a healthy and successful family. And so on.
Mind you, this was disregarding the fact she was still married. It took a couple months but her then-husband showed up to my house one night. It was 2am I had woken up to her phone ringing repeatedly. I woke her up frantically and she dealt with the situation. I thought the worst and did not know what to do. I never knew the husband except from her stories to this point, so I just kept thinking he was going to do me severe harm (and I don't blame him one bit). He ended up leaving in his truck, peeling out on the side street. I never came into contact with him. She controlled the situation and it was over with. But by now, me and this girl's relationship was pretty exposed.
To make things even more interesting, my best friend at the time was living with me. My best friend's girlfriend was related to the girl I was talking to. It turned out my best friend's girlfriend was cousins with this girl's husband. To make things even MORE interesting, one of my mom's lifelong friends was the BOSS of this girl's husband. Oh, and both the husband and this girl shared mutual friends with me through sports and random activities. There was much more to this "affair" than you think.
So the summer went on. Everyone in both me and this girl's friend group knew what we were doing. There was no hiding it. Working at a restaurant just amplified things in a negative way. (Queue endless drama and gossip) Once my best friend caught on that I was really seeing this girl, he immediately drew back and questioned my choices (he's not wrong for questioning, after all). I plead my innocence that I only wanted to be intimate a few times and bow out gracefully. But time after time, I kept associating with this girl. Knowing it put a lot of strain on my best friend and others to accept this situation, and to keep it under wraps. It went so far as to me sneaking her around the house just so I could see her. It made things extremely uncomfortable for my best friend and his girlfriend.
Needless to say, these habits just about killed my relationship with my best friend. He shortly moved out after things really picked up with this girl. It was the lowest moment in my life. I battled all summer with inner emotions of this girl. Knowing it was not morally in our best interest. But feeling like there was so much potential. This was not a silly string of hook-ups. This felt like there could be MORE.
My best friend moved out as the peak restaurant season was coming to a close. I realized I need to find an alternate job, and quick. Plus, me and this girl really picked up on seeing each other since we had more spare time. I stepped up and even helped her at a business fair to promote her small business. I also volunteered my time to help her move out of her dad's apartment, and helped with renovations at her new place. I was slowly but surely becoming more a part of her everyday life. Her friends knew about me too. A few wanted to meet me. They understood the situation without judging.
Then we began unofficially dating in late fall of that year. She was still legally married but we spent a couple of months spending quality time together. I was battling depression and started going to therapy too. I was dealing with an immense amount of guilt from playing a part in the breaking up of a family, and even more so in losing the closest friend in my life. For this girl.
The unofficial relationship with this girl did not last long. I ended things after a month or two. I got cold feet from commitment. I mean... what 24y/o guy excitedly tells their family, hey I'm dating a separated Mom of two kids!! Yippeeee!! Yeah... right.
This back-and-forth "situationship" went on for the good part of another year. We took extended breaks, all on my doing. I tried to see other girls. Go on dates and try to kill my emotions for this girl. And it was an utter waste of time, money, and emotion. I was way too critical of each girl after this girl. I tried telling myself I can date someone like this girl... that someone would show up and cure all of these mixed emotions. I couldn't stop thinking about this girl though. It was inhibiting any other attempt at a relationship with someone else. I genuinely loved her. I've never felt a love like this except for the love of my father. This emotion cut deep.
I cared so much about her that I volunteered to meet her ex-husband. I wanted to personally confront him and apologize. I wanted to let me know who I was, and that initial actions towards his ex-wife were not out of malicious intent. To my surprise, he was extremely receptive and we actually BONDED for hours. We had never met each other and yet we were talking like we knew each other. We shared serious things but also shared a few good laughs. And you know what? It felt exhilarating to talk with this girl's ex-husband. I felt like I was closing the moral inequity. I was working back the grief.
Then this year's summer came. I was battling with moving some family out of state and kept stringing this girl along.. never committing but keeping the relationship alive. We saw each other sporadically. And fast forward to now, where it has been almost a month and a half since we've last talked.
*I have since rekindled things with my best friend. We're not tight like we used to be, but we talk and sometimes see each other.*
There's so much more that could be said. She's been on my mind almost every waking minute this past month. I picture sharing happy memories together.. with her. I picture sharing children, and starting a family. I miss her. And the more I long to be with her, the less I care about what anyone else has to say for being with a now single mother of two children. I welcome the challenge. I mean, life is supposed to be interesting after all.
Bland isn't my type. This girl is so much more than that. I love you still. So much.
Here's some context on what this girl is really like.

1. I blacked out and she was took care of me, after I had thrown up all over myself. She was at my bedside every minute and made sure I was okay.

2. She went out of her way to comfort me. I got a really bad poison ivy rash over the summer and she went to CVS, dropped $60 on itch cream and ointment, and did not even bat an eye.

3. She was driven. We both agreed that we want to change our lives around. She even corrected me that she wanted to IMPROVE her life, not just change it.

4. She listens. She genuinely hears you out and wants to help solve problems.

5. She is loving. She went out of her way to make special gifts and order custom things online. For example, we always had a tough time choosing something to do. So she ordered a coin that had our names on either side to help decide who would make plans.

6. She also bought me a mental wellness journal to help organize my daily thoughts, and heal emotionally.

7. She was never afraid to cry in front of me and become vulnerable. And she made me feel/do the same unto her.

8. You don't need a filter when you're around her.

9. She's a little crazy. I like that.

10. 
    - Thank you to everyone for reading this. There are other things that occurred to help build context, but this is the meat and bones. I really want to know what YOU would do in my shoes. Would you pursue her as a life partner, or continue ghosting her and dealing with empty emotions?

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, JZ192 said:

I really want to know what YOU would do in my shoes. Would you pursue her as a life partner, or continue ghosting her and dealing with empty emotions?

There is nothing to pursue, she is married. You had an extramarital affair, not a relationship. If she is single there would be a point, but she isnt. Nore she has aspirations to be as it seems. Since she is still married to her husband. But seem to like little something by the side.

And that is another thing. Do you really believe that somebody with so much low moral value that she openly "dates" somebody while married, is a suitable life partner? That she could be faithful to you? What about kids? Do you want kids and does she wants more? Would you be OK with just raising her own kids? Taking care of them? Because you would certanly be responsible for them as well if this goes forward.

There are just too many drawbacks to this even be considered for a relationship. And again, even if you would want that, you literally cant be in relationship with her. I do understand that you have feelings there given how warm you talk about her. But the whole situation is far from good as it is and she is not somebody who you should pursue if you want a relationship. So, stay broken up and pursue other, next time prefferably single women.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, JZ192 said:

never committing but keeping the relationship alive. We saw each other sporadically. And fast forward to now, where it has been almost a month and a half since we've last talked.

Sorry this is happening. Are you on a break or broken up? Do you want to reconcile? 

[Batya33]

I agree- I think you mostly thrived on the drama of it.

[TacticalLinguine]

12 hours ago, JZ192 said:

I plead my innocence that I only wanted to be intimate a few times and bow out gracefully.

I can’t believe you said this about a married woman?! What?? :’)

[boltnrun]

If you do choose to pursue her, you at least know what your future with her will look like. She will have another affair with a young coworker of hers and conceal it from you while everyone else on the planet knows about it. 

If that sounds like fun, go ahead. But don't act surprised when she does this again. 

[MissCanuck]

What's the old expression?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

 

[shouldhavelearned]

You messed up from the moment you knew she was married.

 

She probably knew all about the family dynamics and was trying to find a way out

 

Young and dumb 

[Wiseman2]

19 hours ago, JZ192 said:

She's a little crazy. I like that.

Unfortunately that's true. But  intensity is not intimacy. Perhaps you were just looking for a thrill like a roller coaster ride? Hopefully you've stepped back. 

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:11 AM, Kwothe28 said:

There is nothing to pursue, she is married. You had an extramarital affair, not a relationship. If she is single there would be a point, but she isnt. Nore she has aspirations to be as it seems. Since she is still married to her husband. But seem to like little something by the side.

And that is another thing. Do you really believe that somebody with so much low moral value that she openly "dates" somebody while married, is a suitable life partner? That she could be faithful to you? What about kids? Do you want kids and does she wants more? Would you be OK with just raising her own kids? Taking care of them? Because you would certanly be responsible for them as well if this goes forward.

There are just too many drawbacks to this even be considered for a relationship. And again, even if you would want that, you literally cant be in relationship with her. I do understand that you have feelings there given how warm you talk about her. But the whole situation is far from good as it is and she is not somebody who you should pursue if you want a relationship. So, stay broken up and pursue other, next time prefferably single women.

I'm sorry for not being clear enough on the "married" portion. 

She is officially single and has been finishing the legal, court side of being divorced. She has taken down any social media with her ex-husband. She is now living on her own. It's different.

She wants more kids. At least 2-3 more. I've never met her kids, out of pure respect for her ex-husband's wishes. However, after I met her ex-husband, he gave me the green light to meet her kids. I want more kids with her. She's done a great job at independently raising her two kids without me playing any "ancillary" role. But yes, I would love to help co-parent her two kids right now. 

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:15 AM, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Are you on a break or broken up? Do you want to reconcile? 

I'm not really sure if we are on break or broken up. I would lean towards broken up. We've played weird games at coming back into contact with one another. 

A large part of me wants to reconcile. But, at what cost. I want to have serious talks with close family and close friends before reaching out again. And perhaps, it may be too late.

But I'm telling you I have never felt this way about a woman before in my life. Maybe I'm blinded by the sex or small acts of kindness that she did. I don't know. I think literally everyday about the future we could have.

Two things that held me back are gaining support from friends and family, and the fact she is tied to the local area due to her two kids. I want to find a career and if that takes me across the U.S., then so be it. And she reasonably can't make that type of commitment. So, there's that to consider as well. 

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:57 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately that's true. But  intensity is not intimacy. Perhaps you were just looking for a thrill like a roller coaster ride? Hopefully you've stepped back. 

I have stepped back for now. The last time we talked was Oct. 7th. I never responded to her text. 

If I talk to her ever again, it will be with full intention of starting over and doing things the right way. She's legally single and living on her own. 

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:04 PM, MissCanuck said:

What's the old expression?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

 

It cuts deeper than playing a stupid game.

I don't care - married or unmarried. There was an emotional bond that was made that I've never felt before. I've never been so emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually connected to someone like this. 

Maybe that's being too dramatic. But I understood the risks going in, and have paid most of the price for my actions. And I have to live with that. I've made peace. 

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:50 PM, Batya33 said:

I agree- I think you mostly thrived on the drama of it.

That's what so much of this was. Working together in a fast-paced restaurant environment didn't help either. A lot of our friends further exacerbated the issue. 

If there ever is another opportunity to be together, I don't want drama. I just want her and to be the real deal relationship we once had.

[JZ192]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:03 PM, boltnrun said:

If you do choose to pursue her, you at least know what your future with her will look like. She will have another affair with a young coworker of hers and conceal it from you while everyone else on the planet knows about it. 

If that sounds like fun, go ahead. But don't act surprised when she does this again. 

Trust me, I've heard this before from family and friends. It is a large moral flaw that me and her technically share. It is something to be worked on. We both recognize that this situation could have been handled differently. 

I suppose her cheating on me is always a risk. But she seemed just as committed to me as I was to her. I was the one that ended things every time.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, JZ192 said:

Trust me, I've heard this before from family and friends. It is a large moral flaw that me and her technically share. It is something to be worked on. We both recognize that this situation could have been handled differently. 

I suppose her cheating on me is always a risk. But she seemed just as committed to me as I was to her. I was the one that ended things every time.

Often the person who ends it simply is cutting to the chase first so to speak.  You like all this word salad about technicalities and moralities and flaws. The fact that she had intercourse with you and an affair outside of her marriage is -reality -not a technicality.  She probably Seemed committed to her marriage too.  You wrote you respect her ex husband as far as him being the father of the children -where was that respect when you chose to have sex with his wife? Please don't blame "friends" for "exacerbating" -you're your own person yes? If you're not please don't get involved with a woman who has children -those children need a person who can be a role model -complete with appropriate values/ethics.

It's a positive that she is divorced now.  My sense is she will want to enjoy the single life for a minute -or more.  I'd avoid being involved for now -maybe in a few years -if the timing is right.  JMHO.

[boltnrun]

6 hours ago, JZ192 said:

But she seemed just as committed to me as I was to her.

I'm sure her husband thought she was committed to him.  Oh, because she MARRIED him.

 

6 hours ago, JZ192 said:

It is a large moral flaw that me and her technically share. It is something to be worked on.

What's there to "work on"?  Realizing that having sex with married women is wrong?  Realizing that sneaking around behind your husband's back is wrong?  I would think those are basics.

6 hours ago, JZ192 said:

I've heard this before from family and friends.

Yet you want to ignore everyone who loves you because of the sex and whatever "small acts of kindness" she did.  It's easy to be kind when you're playing affair games.  But when that thrill is gone what do you really have left?

Yeah, I'm being harsh.  Because you have this woman up on a pedestal, excusing all of her cheating behaviors.  She's not a unicorn, just your run of the mill unfaithful spouse.

[LotusBlack]

17 hours ago, JZ192 said:

A large part of me wants to reconcile. But, at what cost.  

I find this statement quite problematic/concerning because the damage has already been done and NOW you want to assess the potential risks of continuing on? It’s like dropping a grenade into a situation and then walking away before the clean up so you can decide if you really do want to level the town or not, but it’s already after the fact. That consideration should have occurred before you took steps to engage with her outside of a professional and platonic nature.

I’m not advocating for continuing on with her at this point but I also feel like you caused damage for no reason as well if you’re not going to stay the course. That tells me that neither you nor her were truly serious about each other and dedicated to being together and doing things the right way. So, I’d cut my losses and move on and forward, learning from your bad choices.

To clarify, I don’t think there is anything wrong with a man (even at your age) wanting to pursue a relationship with a woman who already has children, if he is sure of himself and the relationship he wishes to establish. The issue is not your age or your ex being a single mother, it’s that you went about the whole thing with no amount of emotional maturity or integrity.

Had I been in your situation I would have been open and clear about how I felt and what I would like to happen but that it would not be happening within the context of an affair and no boundaries would be crossed. If the feelings are true, then they would be able to endure the time it takes for the previous one to end in a healthy and respectful way. “Innocently” sleeping with her a few times while she is married/not officially separated before cutting and running does not a healthy relationship make, nor does it make you innocent in all this. I think it might this that your friends and family took issue with as you displayed a lack of maturity in this whole situation and maturity is something you need a great deal of when pursuing a relationship with a single mother of 2, especially as a young man.

[Tinydance]

42 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

I find this statement quite jarring because the damage has already been done and NOW you want to assess the potential risks of continuing on? It’s like dropping a grenade into a situation and then walking away before the clean up so you can decide if you really do want to level the town or not, but it’s already after the fact. That consideration should have occurred before you took steps to engage with her outside of a professional and platonic nature.

I’m not advocating for continuing on with her at this point but I also feel like you caused damage for no reason as well if you’re not going to stay the course. That tells me that neither you nor her were truly serious about each other and dedicated to being together and doing things the right way. So, I’d cut my losses and move on and forward, learning from your bad choices.

To clarify, I don’t think there is anything wrong with a man (even at your age) wanting to pursue a relationship with a woman who already has children, if he is sure of himself and the relationship he wishes to establish. The issue is not your age or your ex being a single mother, it’s that you went about the whole thing with no amount of emotional maturity or integrity.

Had I been in your situation I would have been open and clear about how I felt and what I would like to happen but that it would not be happening within the context of an affair. If the feelings are true, then they would be able to endure the time it takes for the previous one to end in a healthy and respectful way. “Innocently” sleeping with her a few times while she is married/not officially separated before cutting and running does not a healthy relationship make, nor does it make you innocent in all this.

I agree with this. I think if this woman is now truly legally divorced and that's the real situation - OK she's now single. I find it quite strange that her ex-husband seemed fine with the whole thing but maybe he also wanted a divorce so he wanted it to be over. Again, I'm not sure why he's so chill about the whole thing but I guess he's moving on and being mature about the whole situation.

I think you need to really make a decision here and you need to actually stick with that decision. You say you truly love this woman and you have this amazing connection. But yet you keep breaking it off and you don't actually want to commit. What do you think your reasons are for not wanting to be in an actual relationship? You don't trust her because she cheated on her husband? You're apprehensive because she has kids? These are valid concerns but the thing is, this is who she is and that's just the way things are. If you wanted to be with her then you'd have to accept it. If you can't accept it then it would probably be best for you to just end it for good and go no contact. I don't really see the point of continuing this on again/off again relationship. Especially if it interferes with you being able to like other girls.

I personally wouldn't worry about what other people think that she's divorced and has kids. You said many of your and her friends know about it so they already know the whole situation. I think it really just boils down to what YOU want.