feminism not a variable? check splitting

[reinventmyself]

36 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

we both worked full time.  She dropped him off at daycare and I picked him up daily.  

Paying for someone to raise one child for a good part of the day and paying for someone to clean your home. . ..  is not the same as - staying home full time to raise the children and take care of a home. 

You can't compare to two.

[Cherylyn]

Just now, reinventmyself said:

Paying for someone to raise one child for a good part of the day and paying for someone to clean your home. . ..  is not the same as - staying home full time to raise the children and take care of a home. 

You can't compare to two.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I thank God you said this @reinventmyself ❤️

[reinventmyself]

2 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I thank God you said this @reinventmyself ❤️

Stan needs to get back to work 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Big Stan said:

I’m glad that you enjoy it. I’m not ***ting on being a parent, I like being a parent too. I just don’t buy all the “parenting is the hardest job in the world” comments. It isn’t, barring a few special circumstances. It’s important for sure but it’s not that hard. 
 

In fact we need to be holding parents to higher standards in general. The bar for parenthood is on the floor and it’s way lower than it is in the corporate world. 

I don’t agree. I think it rivals especially in certain circumstances the hardest job in the world. Especially parents with children with special needs and or disabilities. Like my sister used to tell me especially since I was going to be an older mom -you never know what you’re going to get. Now I know now there are even better diagnostic tools in utero but I respect all parents decisions as to how to proceed if they learn of such an issue. I had very specific standards on that. My husband shared those standards and it was so comforting to be on the same page. 
I have a relative who raised two boys and a girl. They’re all grown. She told me several times in her opinion her kids were “easy” - she was a SAHM. like she’d tell them not to touch certain figurines in the living room and - they’d comply- as young kids. Like that.  And many more reasons.  She’s certainly type A and from all I can tell she ran a tight ship but a loving and nurturing one not a harsh one. 

so it can depend and there are so many individual factors -,are there two involved parents ? Is there family help?  Do the parents hire outside sitters and Nannie’s despite one or both parents being home ? were the children wanted ? If not then sure it can be easy - just feed them and house them and whatever.  Basic stuff.  I have a friend where dad died and son is a tween - was 10 at the time. No help. But she’s comfortable taking solo plane trips and leaving him home either to stay over a friend or if needed by himself in the house with telephone numbers of neighbors. In my circumstances thst simply wouldn’t happen and my parents never did that even though our grandparents lived across the street.

Yes when my sister was 17 or 18 and living at home and I was 12 plus grandparents were close by. But at age 12 I’d never have been left alone over night especially if it involved an air flight. so for my friend - and no judgment !!- it’s easier in the sense that she can come and go freely in a way I just wouldn’t and my parents wouldn’t.  Individual differences.

I have friends whose parents take the kids for weeks or even for the whole summer.

Parents who can afford around 10k for sleepaway camp and with kids willing to go.

Parents who don’t care if their kids don’t want to be sent away to camp or boarding school because their priority is freedom.  Not judging just showing that the job can be made easier.  Depends on parenting standards. 

[reinventmyself]

I feel a shut down coming 😝

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

Paying for someone to raise one child for a good part of the day and paying for someone to clean your home. . ..  is not the same as - staying home full time to raise the children and take care of a home. 

You can't compare to two.

Yes. That’s a different job. Like hiring an assistant at work who takes on tons of paperwork that took you hours after work to complete and you also don’t have to review it. Time is money.  My job responsibilities recently changed so that my boss stopped reviewing 90% of a certain project I do regularly because I’ve now shown I don’t need that level of oversight. So he now saves likely hours a month.
 

When my son was under age 3 unless I hired a nanny or sitter I couldn’t ask some random mom in the playground to watch him while I went to the spa- the spa to me was going to the supermarket alone.  So I could actually focus on food shopping without having to tend to my toddler.
when he was 3.5 and not sick he went to a 4 hour preschool.  Which freed up approximately 2.5 hours given pick up and drop off and lunch prep etc.  but if he was sick or too sniffly no school and so obviously making actual plans for the 2.5 hours was all tentative. 
again not complaining!  Just referring to daily tasks for full time parenting. Daycare all day is not full time parenting. 

[Cherylyn]

Motherhood is really hard.  Just ask my single parent mother.  She worked 3 jobs 7 days a week to keep a roof over our heads and still minded the home front for 3 children.  This is after being the victim of domestic violence courtesy of my chain smoking, alcoholic, womanizer father who left her with insurmountable debts.  She even saved the house and never filed for bankruptcy.  She repaid everyone and then some.  She wore herself out to the bone. 

[Big Stan]

26 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

Paying for someone to raise one child for a good part of the day and paying for someone to clean your home. . ..  is not the same as - staying home full time to raise the children and take care of a home. 

You can't compare to two.

UGH, I didn't always have this arrangement.  I know exactly how hard it is to clean or raise my kid.  

[Big Stan]

8 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Motherhood is really hard.  Just ask my single parent mother.  She worked 3 jobs 7 days a week to keep a roof over our heads and still minded the home front for 3 children.  This is after being the victim of domestic violence courtesy of my chain smoking, alcoholic, womanizer father who left her with insurmountable debts.  She even saved the house and never filed for bankruptcy.  She repaid everyone and then some.  She wore herself out to the bone. 

So motherhood is so hard she was able to do it while working 3 jobs.  Do you see how contradictory this is?

[Cherylyn]

1 minute ago, Big Stan said:

So motherhood is so hard she was able to do it while working 3 jobs.  Do you see how contradictory this is?

Whether outside the home or inside the home, it's all very taxing. 

Yes, we're entitled to our opinions.  Continue believing whatever you want and the rest of us will do the same.  It's a free country. 

I'm relieved and grateful that my husband,  sons,  father-in-law (FIL),  brothers-in-law (BIL),  my brother,  sister,  uncles & aunts,  male & female cousins,  nephews,  nieces,  male & female relatives,  male & female colleagues,  many of my male & female friends / neighbors, church brethren and male & female acquaintances have a lot of respect for women / mothers and would never sass back by saying such a thing.  They have too much class for that.  I recognize and realize they're cut from a different cloth. 

[Big Stan]

23 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I have a relative who raised two boys and a girl. They’re all grown. She told me several times in her opinion her kids were “easy” - she was a SAHM. like she’d tell them not to touch certain figurines in the living room and - they’d comply- as young kids. Like that.  And many more reasons.  She’s certainly type A and from all I can tell she ran a tight ship but a loving and nurturing one not a harsh one. 

so it can depend and there are so many individual factors -,are there two involved parents ? Is there family help?  

Yeah I agree with your relative.  My kid is extremely well behaved and also pretty well adjusted.  Both my wife and I have imparted some good values with him and because of that raising him is easy.  

[Big Stan]

Just now, Cherylyn said:

Whether outside the home or inside the home, it's all very taxing. 

Yes, we're entitled to our opinions.  Continue believing whatever you want and the rest of us will do the same.  It's a free country. 

I'm relieved and grateful that my husband,  sons,  father-in-law (FIL),  brothers-in-law (BIL),  my brother,  sister,  uncles & aunts,  male & female cousins,  nephews,  nieces,  male & female relatives,  male & female colleagues,  many of my male & female friends / neighbors, church brethren and male & female acquaintances have a lot of respect for women / mothers and would never sass back by saying such a thing.  They have too much class for that.  I recognize and realize they're cut from a different cloth. 

So why is it a matter of respect that I accept your position but you don't need to respect me and mine?

[Cherylyn]

2 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

So why is it a matter of respect that I accept your position but you don't need to respect me and mine?

Because a lot of men (and women but referring to men here)  know how to respect women and mothers and don't say what you do. 

[reinventmyself]

11 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

So why is it a matter of respect that I accept your position but you don't need to respect me and mine?

Because of your delivery.  Let someone state their opinion, be respectful and leave it alone.  Don't double down telling them how wrong they are. Sprinkling words such as  'it's a fact' & 'low bar' 

You continue to beat your chest about how much more important you are, therefore you know better?  Add in that you use insulting terms while attempting to prove your point.

Again, important people I know are pretty secure and don't need to go around trying to convince everybody.

Yes, people will come back at you when you insult them.  It still doesn't make it right.

People like you show up here all the time with an agenda.  They pretend they're the king of this court and we are their subjects.  You aren't the first and you won't be the last.

[Big Stan]

14 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Because a lot of men (and women but referring to men here)  know how to respect women and mothers and don't say what you do. 

That doesn't make sense and frankly I put little stock in the opinions of those who say I'm being disrespectful while openly being disrespectful towards me and even justifying it.  You get what you give out and if me questioning your position is disrespectful then you are also disrespecting me.  If you don't care, neither do I. 

[Big Stan]

Just now, reinventmyself said:

Because of your delivery.  Let someone state their opinion, be respectful and leave it alone.  Don't double down telling them how wrong they are. Sprinkling words such as  'it's a fact' & 'low bar' 

You continue to beat your chest about how much more important you are, therefore you know better?  Add in that you use insulting terms while attempting to prove your point.

Again, important people I know are pretty secure and don't need to go around trying to convince everybody.

Yes, people will come back at you when you insult them.  It still doesn't make it right.

People like you show up here all the time with an agenda.  They pretend they're the king of this court and we are their subjects.  You aren't the first and you won't be the last.

LOL everything that you said doesn't only apply to me in this situation.  I'm certainly not going to accept that treatment without responding in kind. 

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, Big Stan said:

 

 

You do you and I'll do me @Big Stan.  

[Big Stan]

The real problem here is that more than one of you feel that you are beyond reproach and the simple act of even questioning you or your perspectives is disrespectful and offensive.  It isn't, anyone is allowed to openly disagree with you.  There has been one member involved in this conversation that has been respectful towards me and several that haven't.  

Now the ones who haven't are crying foul, but life simply doesn't work that way.  If you want to be respected, try being respectful of others and entertain the opinions of other's respectfully.  When you don't you're going to get pushback.  My whole comments started with an honest disagreement and an open dialog and then I got piled on by several members here who feel I have no right to even question them.  

I got some bad news, this is a free forum and you don't own it anymore than I do despite your post count.  I'm more than happy to engage in good faith with anyone here but I will not tolerate double standards and I won't be going out of my way to respect people who don't feel they need to extend me the same courtesy. 

[Big Stan]

1 minute ago, Cherylyn said:

 

You do you and I'll do me @Big Stan.   It's all good.  😊

Fair enough.  I'm happy to leave it there and move on if you are. 

[Big Stan]

53 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. That’s a different job. Like hiring an assistant at work who takes on tons of paperwork that took you hours after work to complete and you also don’t have to review it. Time is money.  My job responsibilities recently changed so that my boss stopped reviewing 90% of a certain project I do regularly because I’ve now shown I don’t need that level of oversight. So he now saves likely hours a month.
 

When my son was under age 3 unless I hired a nanny or sitter I couldn’t ask some random mom in the playground to watch him while I went to the spa- the spa to me was going to the supermarket alone.  So I could actually focus on food shopping without having to tend to my toddler.
when he was 3.5 and not sick he went to a 4 hour preschool.  Which freed up approximately 2.5 hours given pick up and drop off and lunch prep etc.  but if he was sick or too sniffly no school and so obviously making actual plans for the 2.5 hours was all tentative. 
again not complaining!  Just referring to daily tasks for full time parenting. Daycare all day is not full time parenting. 

It is on the weekend.

[reinventmyself]

50 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

The REAL PROBLEM here is that more than one of you feel that you are beyond reproach and the simple act of even questioning you or your perspectives is disrespectful and offensive.  It isn't, anyone is allowed to openly disagree with you.  There has been one member involved in this conversation that has been respectful towards me and several that haven't.  

Now the ones who haven't are crying foul, but life simply doesn't work that way.  If you want to be respected, try being respectful of others and entertain the opinions of other's respectfully.  When you don't you're going to get pushback.  My whole comments started with an honest disagreement and an open dialog and then I got piled on by several members here who feel I have no right to even question them.  

I got some bad news, this is a free forum and you don't own it anymore than I do despite your post count.  I'm more than happy to engage in good faith with anyone here but I will not tolerate double standards and I won't be going out of my way to respect people who don't feel they need to extend me the same courtesy. 

Lol

 

There's a saying in therapeutic settings -The very thing that you accuse other people of you may be guilty of yourself.  

I know you'll double down on this one too. . but whatever, I'm out.

 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Big Stan said:

Yeah I agree with your relative.  My kid is extremely well behaved and also pretty well adjusted.  Both my wife and I have imparted some good values with him and because of that raising him is easy.  

But it's not all up to parents - partly but not all -depends on the kid's temperament/makeup/delays if any/learning differences/special needs.  Parents can only do so much.  My child was a ball of energy as a young child and he certainly meant well, had a good heart, was thoughtful but - no -we couldn't take him to fancy restaurants or long meals and expect him to sit still more than 45 minutes etc (so we didn't go -we weren't that family to subject other diners/patrons to a boisterous preschooler LOL). One example of many - parents can only do so much.  

[Big Stan]

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But it's not all up to parents - partly but not all -depends on the kid's temperament/makeup/delays if any/learning differences/special needs.  Parents can only do so much.  My child was a ball of energy as a young child and he certainly meant well, had a good heart, was thoughtful but - no -we couldn't take him to fancy restaurants or long meals and expect him to sit still more than 45 minutes etc (so we didn't go -we weren't that family to subject other diners/patrons to a boisterous preschooler LOL). One example of many - parents can only do so much.  

Yeah high energy is something, but you did what we did and didn't put him in situations to fail.  

[Cherylyn]

2 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

Because of your delivery.  Let someone state their opinion, be respectful and leave it alone.  Don't double down telling them how wrong they are. Sprinkling words such as  'it's a fact' & 'low bar' 

You continue to beat your chest about how much more important you are, therefore you know better?  Add in that you use insulting terms while attempting to prove your point.

Again, important people I know are pretty secure and don't need to go around trying to convince everybody.

Yes, people will come back at you when you insult them.  It still doesn't make it right.

People like you show up here all the time with an agenda.  They pretend they're the king of this court and we are their subjects.  You aren't the first and you won't be the last.

@reinventmyself 🙏 ❤️  Yes,  yes and yes! 

[Batya33]

Just now, Big Stan said:

Yeah high energy is something, but you did what we did and didn't put him in situations to fail.  

Yes and my overarching point is I've never ever seen it as a math equation:  impart good values, reinforce good behaviors/consequences for others = easy child. Nope. Some children are easier.  Some children for whatever reason -parents are awesome, all the values, great discipline approach, teaching the child and..... the child is a handful or worse.  Sometimes there is a "reason" and honestly sometimes there is not (I worked in daycares, elementary schools and worked with children residing in homeless shelter for years).

And even if there is a reason -a diagnosis - sometimes meds work, sometimes not, same with therapy, same with different school environments and on and on and on.  Even with the most awesome, involved parents.  

If what you said was true all the school psychologists/therapists (including PT and OT), social skills groups, and on and on would simply not be needed -instead in all cases the parents would be to blame for not "imparting good values." Please.