Mess - yes I made it

[MissCanuck]

42 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

no the trip isn’t the best idea - not sure what to do though as it was her idea to still go, I said can’t you take a best friend etc but she said no. I suppose I am trying to not hurt her more.

I promise you it is going to hurt her a heck of a lot more if you agree to this trip and then still go off your separate ways once you get back. 

She might think it will fun to do this together, but if you genuinely have no intention of ever reconciling with her, don't go through with it. It will send her too many mixed messages and wind up causing her more pain. 

You need to stand firm and tell her you cannot do this. 

[Ade72]

Hey all - I hope you are all doing ok.

Last night I desperately tried to tell my ex I couldn’t go on the holiday - it’s a week today, I talked about false hope, how it wouldn’t help in the long run etc - she said she knows we aren’t getting back together. She said she would like that to happen but knows that it’s not happening.

I took ages to get the courage to speak to her about it, as I still worry about her feelings. She said she would be disappointed if I pull out, that she needs a holiday and that she doesn’t want to go alone. I crumbled and backed down.

I have such an upset stomach today, always a side effect of worrying.

I was so determined not to go as it had dawned on me that it wasn’t going to help anybody in the long run.

I now have to realise I have lost the chance of being with the lady I was dating because I can’t put myself first, so she will think that she will never be top of my list either.

feel so lost

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

Your wife is obviously hoping to reconcile. She likely is fantasizing about a passionate reunion while on this trip. You will realize how much you actually do love her and will tell her you've been a fool. And that you hope she'll accept you back. 

If you have absolutely no interest in reconciling, please do not go on this trip with her. 

As for the other lady, she has seen you will prioritize your wife, plus she sees you back down when things get uncomfortable. Of course she isn't interested in being a part of that 

As they say, poop or get off the pot. You're either divorcing your wife and there's no going back or you're reconciling and there will be no more "dating" other women. Going on vacations with her and having "tea" with her multiple times a week isn't being "friends", it's giving her false hope. 

[Ade72]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Your wife is obviously hoping to reconcile. She likely is fantasizing about a passionate reunion while on this trip. You will realize how much you actually do love her and will tell her you've been a fool. And that you hope she'll accept you back. 

She says that isn’t the case - she said our adult children would like a reconciliation but she has told them it isn’t what I want.

I appreciate everything you say though, since my original post the contact has reduced greatly (intentionally on my part)…..

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, Ade72 said:

She says that isn’t the case - she said our adult children would like a reconciliation but she has told them it isn’t what I want.

I appreciate everything you say though, since my original post the contact has reduced greatly (intentionally on my part)…..

If you’re this easily swayed by your not-yet ex at this time, that’s certainly not a crime, it just spells out clearly for you that you are not yet dating material.

And of course, ex is using the opportunity to point out to your children that you are the one who is not willing to reconcile.

This is the stuff of messy breakups rather than clean ones. Clean ones are no less painful, but they allow for healing and moving forward while messy ones just keep you mired in mess.

I would decide whether the trip is my choice or not. If not I would clarify my position immediately and avoid the problem with new lady. If it is my choice to go, regardless of my reason, I would address the spillover with new lady then lean into the thing without taking myself down to acid reflux level.

In other words, stand by your decision along with your adult right to make that decision. Allow the chips to fall and get off the fence so you can clean up those chips instead of sitting split on the thing bemoaning them.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Ade72 said:

I now have to realise I have lost the chance of being with the lady I was dating because 

Yes, unfortunately it's going to be quite difficult to date when you are mentally, emotionally and legally married. Even if you got your own place. You're still operating as a couple and family. Perhaps with time you could figure things out?

Try consulting an attorney for support, information, advice and next steps. Moving out and dating women could backfire, since you have to dissolve the marriage legally.

Please see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Discuss your distress and the possibility of midlife crisis, depression or other issues. 

[lostandhurt]

9 hours ago, Ade72 said:

I now have to realise I have lost the chance of being with the lady I was dating because I can’t put myself first, so she will think that she will never be top of my list either.

Seriously???  You can't put yourself first?  Who was the guy that decided for the both of you the marriage was over?  Pretty sure that was you.  Who was the guy that started dating pretty darn soon after the separation?  You once again if I am not mistaken.  Dude you have done nothing but put yourself first.

Then you want to stay "friends" with your wife, not for her but so you can have her around while you "date".  Once again that is selfish.

 You want to fix this mess then stop putting yourself first for once and do the right thing.  Make the separation legal if it isn't already, file for divorce, stop dating so you can focus on what is really important which is getting your head straight and your life together as a single person BEFORE you start dragging other people into it.

 I see what you are doing even if you will not admit it.  

 Lost 

[boltnrun]

6 hours ago, Ade72 said:

She says that isn’t the case - she said our adult children would like a reconciliation but she has told them it isn’t what I want.

I appreciate everything you say though, since my original post the contact has reduced greatly (intentionally on my part)…..

That doesn't address the strong possibility your wife doesn't want the divorce. 

And going on vacation together is pretty much the opposite of "greatly reduced contact".

What do you think would happen if you chose not to go on the vacation?

[Tinydance]

Well the thing is, you initially chose to go on the holiday with your ex-wife. And that's why your new girlfriend chose to break up with you, right? I don't actually understand why you feel you HAVE to go on the holiday with your wife. I'm sure she could have found someone else to go with. It's now been six weeks or more since you first posted. So that's at least how long your ex-wife had to find someone else. You don't have to feel bad at all. It's perfectly reasonable to decide not to go on holiday with your ex.

[Tinydance]

10 hours ago, Ade72 said:

She says that isn’t the case - she said our adult children would like a reconciliation but she has told them it isn’t what I want.

I appreciate everything you say though, since my original post the contact has reduced greatly (intentionally on my part)…..

But it's not up to your children  - it's up to you! Especially as your children are adults so they should be living their own life.

[Ade72]

12 hours ago, catfeeder said:

If you’re this easily swayed by your not-yet ex at this time, that’s certainly not a crime, it just spells out clearly for you that you are not yet dating material.

It also spells out that I am trying to consider other people in this mess - yes I made it but I have been swayed as she said that she wouldn’t go alone and that she knows we are not reconciling.

I was desperate to stick to my guns but it felt bad on top of already feeling bad for the situation itself 

[Ade72]

10 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What do you think would happen if you chose not to go on the vacation?

I think it would undo the work that had been done by my ex and I to remain friends 

[Ade72]

11 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Then you want to stay "friends" with your wife, not for her but so you can have her around while you "date".  Once again that is selfish.

That bit isn’t true, I wanted to remain friends as I don’t want the last 20 years to have been wasted. Unlike so many couples that can’t even look at each other or be in the same room, I don’t want that 

[Ade72]

7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well the thing is, you initially chose to go on the holiday with your ex-wife. And that's why your new girlfriend chose to break up with you, right? I don't actually understand why you feel you HAVE to go on the holiday with your wife. I'm sure she could have found someone else to go with. It's now been six weeks or more since you first posted. So that's at least how long your ex-wife had to find someone else. You don't have to feel bad at all. It's perfectly reasonable to decide not to go on holiday with your ex.

Thank you, I know it’s perfectly reasonable to decide not to go, it’s just that she made me feel so bad to starting to tell her I couldn’t go, I felt awful and couldn’t stick to it

[Wiseman2]

50 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

. Unlike so many couples that can’t even look at each other or be in the same room, I don’t want that 

Basically you're still acting like a married couple without sex. Even though you got an apartment hoping to date and have sex without "cheating", it's not really turning out because most women are going to run from your situation. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Ade72 said:

I think it would undo the work that had been done by my ex and I to remain friends 

How is it a requirement for friends to vacation together? 

You're making excuses to remain in this weird limbo. Just don't be surprised when women aren't interested in dating someone who insists on vacationing with his still-wife. 

[Ade72]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

You're making excuses to remain in this weird limbo. Just don't be surprised when women aren't interested in dating someone who insists on vacationing with his still-wife

This is definitely not happening again - so going forward I will be able to demonstrate this to a potential partner - the price I am paying will be losing this new lady that was right in so many ways 

[lostandhurt]

4 hours ago, Ade72 said:

That bit isn’t true, I wanted to remain friends as I don’t want the last 20 years to have been wasted. Unlike so many couples that can’t even look at each other or be in the same room, I don’t want that 

See you don't get it.  Your wife clearly wants to stay married and you don't.  Have you considered how staying "friends" with her will continue the pain and anguish?  I am not saying you need to be enemies but right now she needs to accept the marriage is over, mourn the death and then begin healing.  How is having you around as false hope and a constant reminder helping her?

 There is time to be cordial and even friendly after the business of divorce is all done and both sides have moved on and healed up enough.  You seem to think your wife is where you are in all this but you have had 6 months or so of a head start, remember that.

  Lost

[boltnrun]

She likely has friends or possibly the kids telling her "he wouldn't be going on vacation with you if he really wanted the divorce. He wouldn't be having tea with you several times a week if he wasn't still in love with you". 

I would also believe an alleged ex still wanted to be with me if he traveled with me or spent time with me. Especially if that's what I wanted. 

[redswim30]

Plain and simple- you need to decide what YOU want- I don't think you really know. 

AND- you need to understand that you cannot control how people react to the decisions you make. 

Your wife wants to stay together, you don't.  Or DO YOU? 

If you DO leave your marriage- You do not get to control her reaction.  She may NOT want to be friends with you, your adult kids MIGHT be mad at you.  But you cannot control their feelings or reactions.  But one should never make choices that they know aren't right for them because they are worried it someone may disagree or not have a pleasant response?  You seem to want both, and that's just not realistic. 

Let's be real- your wife is hoping to win you back on this vacation and you KNOW it.  She could take one of your adult kids, a friend or another man.  She has plenty of other options besides you, but she WANTS you to go.  Don't be naive.  Will you be able to say no if she wants to have intimate relations with you?  

If you DO want to stay with her.  STOP DATING IMMEDIATELY.  Go on this obvious reconciliation vacation and rekindle your marriage.  You will 100% be giving up any hope with this other woman.   But please do NOT go on vacation with your wife out of PITY or FEAR.  That would not actually be a LOVING OR KIND gesture on your part unless you truly are in love with her and truly want to save your marriage.  Also, your kids don't get a say.  It's YOUR life, not theirs.  When they are married, I expect they will decide if they want to stay married or get divorced and not just do what you want. 

If you have no interest in saving your marriage- DO NOT GO ON THIS VACATION.  She's hardly the first spouse to make a desperate effort to prevent a divorce or to use emotional blackmail to win you back.  If you can't stand the idea of her not being your friend, then stay in your marriage forever.  Because what you absolutely cannot have is BOTH.  You can't divorce your wife and get to control her reaction or feelings towards you.  You can't date and still hold onto your wife. 

If you think making decisions based on other people's opinions/feelings will serve you well- then go for it.  IMO, Basing life decisions on this rarely goes well.  But if you care more about "people liking you" than being happy or doing what's best for you- go for it. 

I always say- you should never sacrifice your own happiness for someone else's comfort.  It won't make you happy and you're just lying to her. 

In short- MAKE UP YOUR MIND.   Do you WANT to stay married and give up everything else that goes with being single?  NO woman alive is gonna be okay "dating you" while you're romantically vacationing w/your wife (which you BOTH know is what your wife thinks and expects- don't kid yourself).  or do you WANT to get divorce- knowing there WILL be at least SOME fallout with your ex-wife and kids. (And you can't control their feelings/reactions) 

You have to make a choice.  Right now, you have (as you aptly named your thread) made a mess.  The mess is because you are trying to have everything.  You want the security blanket of being married while being able to date- and that's not fair to anyone. 

Make a decision.  Consequences come with either choice.  Life is messy.  

[Andrina]

12 hours ago, Ade72 said:

That bit isn’t true, I wanted to remain friends as I don’t want the last 20 years to have been wasted. Unlike so many couples that can’t even look at each other or be in the same room, I don’t want that 

Remaining friends is very different than being friendly when encountering one another at a major family event, like a grown child getting married, and seeing each other at the hospital when your grandchild is born.

Most women aren't going to date you when you're buddies with your ex-wife, as in communicating about things other than a crisis you have to talk about concerning your grown child, and getting together for fun activities.

I don't know why you think the 20 years were a waste if you can't remain friends. I'm sure you had good experiences, and your children were born because of the union. 

And just because your marriage had become stale, and you couldn't wait for the excitement of being with another woman, doesn't mean you should've raced into that. Ever hear of delayed gratification versus instant gratification? It takes maturity to consider better outcomes when waiting until the time is right to pursue your goal.

As said, better to first get a divorce and learn to be happy alone first, and get your life in order before dating. It's a more selfless thing to do than to waste a woman's time while you're still involved with your wife.

[MissCanuck]

Going on this trip will be a huge mistake. 

Huge. 

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this is happening, but unfortunately your idea of getting an apartment in order to date women while staying married in every other sense seems to have backfired. Sadly now you're still in a sexless unhappy marriage but have made yourself undatable under the misguided belief that all you need to do is rent a love nest. So you're neither single and datable nor happily married.

[kehratha]

23 hours ago, Ade72 said:

That bit isn’t true, I wanted to remain friends as I don’t want the last 20 years to have been wasted. Unlike so many couples that can’t even look at each other or be in the same room, I don’t want that 

You basically want to have your cake and eat it too.

Well, I guess this is not going to happen. Not for now. Your (ex) wife is still hurt by your decision. Let her heal, let her pass over the denial phase she's in.

Being cordial with an ex, doesn't mean staying friends.

You should not go to the trip with her, is cruel and coward from your part.