Being Friendzoned by men

[Stephaniee]

@Coily

thanks for your tips I just have a question regarding the style. By feminine do you mean dresses and skirts ?

i usually wear something like this

https://images.app.goo.gl/yAKsZmwMTm4BKShH6

[Kwothe28]

54 minutes ago, Stephaniee said:

euthanasia

Why are you talking to men you just met about euthanasia?

Please keep it more light at start, heavy threads tend to be a "mood killer" and tend to be argumentative because people feel strong about them.

[Wiseman2]

59 minutes ago, Stephaniee said:

@Batya33

Well I am not that talkative but when someone  approach me I do talk and ask them questions 
Topics can be : hobbies, favorite place to go, workplace automation, transhumanism, euthanasia etc 

You have mentioned that as soon as you start talking to someone, they back away. So you are attracting men, but to be honest you're trying to involve people in debates about controversial topics and that's a turnoff. You also mentioned you like opinionated men. Please keep in mind men aren't looking for a debating partner.  There must be other things and topics you could talk about that aren't this off-putting?

[Stephaniee]

@Wiseman2

@Kwothe28

When we discuss the general topics like their likes and dislikes, aspiration in life, movies and music what else should I talk about ?

what do guys like to talk about ?

(i just try to keep the conversation going, for euthanasia I don’t talk about it on the first encounter )

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, Stephaniee said:

@Wiseman2

@Kwothe28

what do guys like to talk about ?(i just try to keep the conversation going)

Try to relax and just enjoy the conversation. You don't have to "keep it going"(dragging it out).

Talking incessantly can irritate some people. Just relax and let conversations happen more naturally without introducing overly controversial or provocative subjects. From your description, this is when they back away.

This is why joining some groups and clubs, volunteering, taking some classes and courses, etc. may help. You're already somewhere with a common interest and you won't feel forced to bring up off-putting topics, just to "keep it going".

[Stephaniee]

@Wiseman2

i think this is the part that confuses me 

because when I answer the question asked and then wait for others to talk they called me shy 

At that time  I asked my friends and they told me that I should be more engaging and positive. That’s what I tried to do

i took conversation classes in French because I am trying to learn new languages and from that I got to learn and discuss about various topics. Which I bring up in conversation from time to time. 

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Stephaniee said:

@Wiseman2

 I answer the question asked and then wait for others to talk they called me shy 

Not sure who's telling you this but it's polite to wait for others to talk. Try to avoid nervous chatter. Just relax and converse naturally without forcing things. 

Just be yourself.  It's fine to be a good listener or on the quiet side. It's better than talking people's ear off because "they" think you're shy.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Stephaniee said:

@Batya33

Well I am not that talkative but when someone  approach me I do talk and ask them questions 
Topics can be : hobbies, favorite place to go, workplace automation, transhumanism, euthanasia etc 
I go to technical seminars.

By positive I want to say optimist I try not to be opinionated but understand all the different sides to a topic. As I said I try but for topics that are controversial sometimes I do have an opinion on them 

Why are you talking about highly sensitive topics with men you don't know well? Having an opinion is not "opinionated" but bringing up a sensitive topic or prolonging the conversation by sharing an opinion isn't a great way to form a bond.  

Why don't you mingle with people at seminars and why is it an "approach" -isn't it natural during breaks to mingle? I understand if certain of these topics are related to the seminar but during the break I'd avoid it -it's a break.  

(I originally met my husband at work -we didn't work together but we each were familiar with what the other person did - I met him three times at work events and none of our conversations were work related -they were about where we each grew up (less than 10 miles from each other as it worked out), our weekend plans, where we had birthday parties when we were kids, etc.  -fun, lighthearted and he asked me out for lunch after the third time we met -he was extremely shy and so busy professionally - and found the time -because shy and busy are irrelevant if you want to date someone).

Oh and I was a very traditional dater and I "approached" my husband first.  His first day of work my 6th week. 

It was a welcome breakfast for the newbies. I knew he didn't know anyone (this was pre-internet- early 90s) -I literally crossed a crowded conference room -recognized him by the photos they'd distributed and said hi to be nice -I was dating someone at the time.  He was standing all by himself and very very shy. 

We spoke for about 5-10 minutes.  We met again 3 months later at a huge fancy work event where we saw each other, started to talk during cocktail hour and then were blocked by a famous person who was a guest and towered over us, standing right between us. 

Third time was months after that and he said I touched his arm lightly while talking to him and he took that as a sign he could ask me to lunch.  I don't remember doing that but I may have. 

Point is it doesn't take much -it did take my approaching him first -he never would have done so in that context.  And I think I was fun to talk to especially in a very intense/stressful work environment.  Also luck and timing but that's an example where it took months for us to actually go out one on one but we both had to make the effort and be interested in the other. We didn't marry until 13 years after the first date but that's another story I've mentioned here lol.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Stephaniee said:

@Wiseman2

i think this is the part that confuses me 

because when I answer the question asked and then wait for others to talk they called me shy 

At that time  I asked my friends and they told me that I should be more engaging and positive. That’s what I tried to do

i took conversation classes in French because I am trying to learn new languages and from that I got to learn and discuss about various topics. Which I bring up in conversation from time to time. 

Who is "they?"  Also "engaging" and positive are throwaway generic words.  Are you interested in what the other person has to say? Do you ask appropriate follow up questions? Or do you change the topic?

I have a friend who had to euthanize her dog -her best friend -last week -awful.  I am not a dog lover.  I know little about dogs, breeds, etc.  But I am her friend and I wanted to be there for her so I asked questions during the whole tragic process of deciding what to do about her aging, very very ill dog.

I was curious as to whether she'd want to get a puppy/dog after BUT knowing nothing about this process -but knowing it was a highly sensitive topic -I did not ask. She shared with me a couple of days after the passing that she was going to get a new puppy and explained why.  I was so happy for her that she was able to make this decision and feel ok about it.

I asked her if she was adopting a rescue and she said no and explained why.  Another highly sensitive topic that many haves strong opinions on.  But my focus remained on being supportive so I simply replied "I understand and I am happy for you." 

Now we're talking about her plans to travel to get her new puppy, and all that goes with it. Again I know nothing about this really but I know I want to be her friend -so I ask appropriate follow up questions and I care about her answers -not because I care about the process but I care about her. She also asks about me regularly but at this time I am happy to focus on this hard time in her life.  And I don't bring up sensitive topics about getting a new puppy, etc.

By analogy - bring up interesting topics for sure but not because you want to look "interesting" or "positive" - try to be curious about topics the other person talks about whether it's tennis, a book he read, or some online virtual cooking classes he plans on taking.  Whatever - it sounds like you're trying to hard and grasping at straws to be "engaging" and "positive" -instead focus on the details - follow up questions, good body language -are engaging and positive.  

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Stephaniee said:

@Coily

thanks for your tips I just have a question regarding the style. By feminine do you mean dresses and skirts ?

i usually wear something like this

https://images.app.goo.gl/yAKsZmwMTm4BKShH6

For me feminine are clothes that fit properly and are flattering.  I used to wear very tight jeans in my teens and 20s.  I can still wear them -I am thin - but I don't think they're particularly flattering -they're too tight looking and uncomfortable.  I do wear form fitting pants but not snug like that and yes with a looser flowing sweater/top over it.  

[Stephaniee]

I think people misunderstood me, usually in seminars there is no enough time to discuss topics like that it’s just an introduction or we talk about the presenters 

but at work when we are free, I tell them about my course and the topic we took, I ask for feedback or their opinion. It’s not that I walk up to men and tell them what do u think about « sensitive topic »? 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Stephaniee said:

@Wiseman2

@Kwothe28

When we discuss the general topics like their likes and dislikes, aspiration in life, movies and music what else should I talk about ?

what do guys like to talk about ?

(i just try to keep the conversation going, for euthanasia I don’t talk about it on the first encounter )

People like to talk about themselves and I am a person who actually doesn't -I like to learn about what makes people tick and also learn about life stuff I don't already know about or haven't studied.  I like subjects like books, travel -and especially travel related to hiking/outdoors/nature.  I like talking about why people made certain education/career choices and/or why they're thinking of changing and to what (I did some recruiting/headhunting many years ago and love this topic).  

I met someone recently when we went away for a few days - I was alone in the breakfast room at the hotel and got to talking to a lady there on her own and we talked all about cruises -I've never been - but she goes often. 

Over a year ago I started chatting with a man while we were waiting for the fitness center to open at a resort and I ended up learning he is an artist and where he displays his art and he promised to send me a poster of one (never did oh well).  I am not an artist. 

I spoke for 2 hours on a flight to my seatmate -a man older than me - in 2005- we spoke about his music, his music career, my work that had some connections to artists back then - until -I realized I was sitting next to a famous rock musician.  Had no idea -my point is - he enjoyed talking with me about his career and had no goal of telling me how famous he was until I finally asked him his name lol.  

I meet people everywhere and more often than not we stay in touch especially now that it's so easy.  I have a friend I met on jury duty in 2006 for example.  Also make sure you can stay in touch -ask if you can connect professionally on linkedin, or get their email, etc.  Follow up.  It's a great way to network and meet more people.  

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Stephaniee said:

I think people misunderstood me, usually in seminars there is no enough time to discuss topics like that it’s just an introduction or we talk about the presenters 

but at work when we are free, I tell them about my course and the topic we took, I ask for feedback or their opinion. It’s not that I walk up to men and tell them what do u think about « sensitive topic »? 

That's fine and then shift over to more non-work topics if you can.  It's a numbers/networking game.

[Coily]

7 hours ago, Stephaniee said:

@Coily

thanks for your tips I just have a question regarding the style. By feminine do you mean dresses and skirts ?

i usually wear something like this

https://images.app.goo.gl/yAKsZmwMTm4BKShH6

I would include your usual wear very feminine. The Occasional skirt or dress that you like in the rotation will catch a man's eye more; but if that's not your style don't include something that you won't keep.

 

[greendots]

I'm no expert at all, but have found that men like to be surrounded by positive, upbeat and fun company. Yes, there is a time for seriousness. But, all in all, men want to feel good and have fun (and no, not referring to anything sexual here) with the woman they're with. And obviously, being respected and appreciated by the woman they're dating is critical.

So, how do you make men feel when you're with them? Do you show genuine interest in them, what they do and who they are?

[Wiseman2]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:08 PM, Stephaniee said:

 i talk more and about various topics. when i start to open up, men pull away. 

You are attracting men, so don't worry that much about being dolled up. According to you, there's difficulty with conversation. So focus on that rather than clothes, makeup,etc. 

For example, Taking French is a great idea. Start doing more in the way of classes courses groups clubs and other situations more conducive to relaxed conversation rather than forced conversations at work or work related events 

[lostandhurt]

You sound like you are a good conversationalist but your topic choices may need to be lightened up.

You need to know your audience as well. Unfortunately many men get turned off by women who seem to be smarter than they are (I am not one of them but I do know some) so keep the convo light and fun.

 Where did you go to school? Have you lived here very long? Where did you grow up? Do you like what you do?

Of course just don't grill some guy all at once but these are simple and non threatening questions to get someone to talk about themselves and hopefully reciprocate.

Professional situations are easiest since you have something current to talk about.  What did you think of the seminar?

Lastly which is the hard part to take is that you might not be their type.  It doesn't always come down to how attractive you are in general, it comes down to how attractive you are to them physically.  You say they talk to you but then back off.  Could it be that they figured out you were interested in more than friendship so they backed off?  I am sure you have been in that situation before.

 From what you have written here it sounds like you are doing great but you just haven't had much luck.  Meeting people and dating is a numbers game these days and unfortunately In Person skills are waning fast!  Apps and communicating through them is the new normal so people just don't see someone in a real life situation the same as they used to.  Are you on any dating apps yourself right now?

Lost

[catfeeder]

I wouldn't feel too discouraged by men at work. Lots of people want to make work friends but not take it to an intimate level--for lots of reasons. If you've seen cases where a guy at work seems interested, but then you see him dating another coworker, then it's likely that he's already has his eye on her, even while he's still interested in forming work friends.

If you're comparing yourself to girlfriends with whom you go out to bars, clubs or parties, maybe you come off as friendly but the serious one of the bunch. That would make you the target of a more serious-minded guy. If your GFs are getting dates from the outings while you are not, maybe the kinds of guys who are going for them aren't the kind of guys you'd want, anyway.

Are you casual-minded? I'm not. I consider myself long term relationship material, so I'm not going to come off as a party-girl. If I tried, I'd be inauthentic, and that likely wouldn't take me anywhere, either.

So I guess it might be helpful to consider What You Want and work backwards from there. If you're long-term-minded, then consider meeting people through activities or causes that matter to you. The people you meet will be like-minded, at very least, in that thing. Or use online apps to set up quick-meets over coffee, where you can check out a few men each week on your way home from work for 20 - 30 minutes each. You agree that neither will ask for a real date on the spot, but either can invite the other afterward. If the answer is yes, the other responds, and if not, no response is necessary. This will give you opportunities to screen men in-or-out, and it takes the squirmy rejection thing off the table. NONE of us are everyone's match.

Head high!