It’s too early to be this hard *howls into the void*

[Jibralta]

2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I tied myself up in knots sitting in the front row for the show where he actively de prioritises me

2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

upset with me because I haven’t asked her she’s going (answer not great).

What do you mean by these two sentences? I don't understand.

[1a1a]

As yesterday dragged out longer and longer and longer and no reply was forth coming I grew more sad and anxious that no reply ever would. (And why should it, we have split). This is what I mean by tying myself into knots (or, working myself in to a catastrophic state about how it’s over and hope is dead, lying in the gutter, blood mingling artfully with the rain). 
 

I mean, she asked me how my weekend was going yesterday. And I shared with her my anxiety and stress around the silence from the boy. And awaited a reply. I didn’t chase it with a how are you? I often do, remember to complete the social circuit and ask how the other person is going. Often even when I’m pretty upset about something. If there’s enough presence of mind I will ask. Yesterday there was not and she’s angry at me about that. Maybe she feels this has been a one sided relationship for a while. From my perspective she pulled away a lot when she got a partner. I didn’t lay my feelings of abandonment on her but I definitely felt them. I don’t feel like I’ve needed or asked for much emotional support over the last two years. She’s always too busy to catch up, I stopped asking. 

[Jibralta]

38 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

As yesterday dragged out longer and longer and longer and no reply was forth coming I grew more sad and anxious that no reply ever would. (And why should it, we have split). This is what I mean by tying myself into knots (or, working myself in to a catastrophic state about how it’s over and hope is dead, lying in the gutter, blood mingling artfully with the rain). 

Ok, I think I get it. I think you mean that it's a metaphoric show. I thought you had concert tickets or something.

40 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

Yesterday there was not and she’s angry at me about that. Maybe she feels this has been a one sided relationship for a while. From my perspective she pulled away a lot when she got a partner. I didn’t lay my feelings of abandonment on her but I definitely felt them. I don’t feel like I’ve needed or asked for much emotional support over the last two years. She’s always too busy to catch up, I stopped asking. 

Ok, well at this difficult juncture in your life, I think you should cut her some slack. You need all the friends you can get, and she sounds like someone who can give you a swift and valuable kick in the ass. 

4 hours ago, 1a1a said:

She’s angry that I keep making this choice and keep trying to talk to her about it

She sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders.

[1a1a]

She does and she could but today it felt like she just wanted to pick a fight.  Feels like she’s angry I didn’t read her mind about wanting support from me. When I told her to tell me when she needs to vent (if hinting isn’t getting the desired result) she was condescending and sarcastic and told me not to speak to her again unless it’s to apologise. That’s not two friends working through a conflict. That’s accept my reality or *** off!

I just revisited our conversation. Reading back over it gives me an intense feeling of ‘drop this and back away’, the entire thing is a curled up hedgehog. Every sentence is a pointed quill. Stab stab stab stab stab stab 

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

That’s not two friends working through a conflict. That’s accept my reality or *** off!

It's interesting that you have this limit with your friend, but not with the guy who's been jerking you around for two months. He gets pass after pass for changing the script, setting new deadlines, and telling you that you smell. Why?

[1a1a]

With exception of that terrible phone call, he’s always been able to come to the table and consider my perspective. I think, is the why. But it’s a good question that warrants further introspection. 
 

Save to say at the moment I’m still too hurt to come back to the table with what she’s seeking. Hopefully with more time.

[1a1a]

Finally send a reply to my friend. I’m still pretty upset with her, feel like she kicked me when I was down. And I have very low expectations of her coming to the table in good faith. Based on Sunday. She’s just gonna read it, decide it’s not acceptable and that will be that. 
 

On the boy front I’m still missing him and thinking about him and hoping we get to the other side and get back together, better for this time apart. But I guess if we don’t we’ve both been single for a month. It can be done. See, the sun rises on another day. 

 

After drawing that boundary I woke up without anxiety for the first time since we split which is better. It creeps back in during the day though. I don’t know if that’s him or friend conflict though. I feel like I’m carrying two wounds now. 

[Batya33]

It's hard to cut through all the flowery language and abstractions and I understand that you weren't inclined to act in a polite manner and ask your friend how she was doing.  That's ok - sometimes people should cut us slack for that but it depends how often you do that.  I've been on the receiving end of that and I have my limit if there's no genuine "how are you" depending on what's going on.

My friend who has three young kids, a husband with terminal cancer who is on disability (in his 40s) and her mom living with them and driving her crazy always always asks me how I am doing after venting - which is -wow -with all that's going on she actually does care (yes she means it).  So - one time -fine -multiple times plus one sided -yup gets old.  I just don't know enough about the interactions you've had with this person who otherwise seems to want to help you.  

Reciprocity is the price of admission for close friendships especially. Not keeping score. A sense of balance that rights itself (so that during crises, yes cut slack - and -sorry it's easy to text how are you -in the 1980s and 1990s you had to call the person and get them on the landline and make sure to ask - it's way too easy now so yes it's not much to ask of you).

If she's otherwise acting like a jerk fine - have your boundaries of course!

I'm glad you're feeling better about things with your ex.

[1a1a]

I feel, less angry at least. Another friend asked me what can you say to her that won’t hurt her, say that. So I’m going to double check my words with him first and if they pass muster just suggest how we can move forward. 
 

Today I’m working a job with 6 hours straight of standing by and I am missing my ex. So much miss. All week in the back of my mind I think I’ve been thinking pretty confidently that when we meet in april we’ll reunite. He seemed mentally there when I asked for no contact. Tonight in the quiet of the stand by job, I think what if we don’t though. What if we do have irreconcilable differences? (And if he really means what he says about how soon he wants to start a family, even if he only realised this once he got to Australia, then he’s right and you’re all right, irreconcilable). If we don’t get back together, that’s the right decision but it’s still going to suck. Like this sucks. Being at different places in our lives sucks. I wish I could just call him now and ask. But I feel this is like a soufflé. Open the oven early and the whole thing will be ruined. This is going to be a really long 3 weeks.

 

edit to add: even with knowing where to focus, focus on 1a1a things, decluttering, getting a passport, applying for work overseas, catching up with friends and family. There is a lot to do.  I’ve been decluttering all week. If makes me feel so anxious. But I have to do it. Part of actually changing and not just saying I’ll change. 

[Batya33]

Congratulations on decluttering!!!  And the passport thing -took me 30 minutes to find all my son's paperwork as he needs a new one -not a renewal -a new one as he's not old enough to renew.  Missing someone is normal.  Doesn't mean anything about whether you're right together.  Meaning it doesn't mean you would make the changes or that he would to be right together - depends on many other factors.

It's not really about the "irreconciliable differences" -it's simpler.  That's typically used for a reason for divorce.  You two can't move forward in life together because you want different things.  Yes it sucks.  It would suck more if you got back together where nothing had changed and he was giving up his dream of starting a family over the next few years or less and you felt pressured to do so.

[1a1a]

I repeated the ‘it would suck more’ bit to myself over and over the other night to make my peace. 
 

And then he broke no contact and reached out. 
 

He misses me too much, let’s take kids off of the table for now and work that out later. 
 

But the wheels and the want is in motion now for me to do a working holiday, and experience I’ve wanted for a long time but not been in a good position to do. He feels like he keeps coming towards me and I keep moving away. I can see how and why he’d feel like that. But the working holiday came directly out of the desire to get to where he is mentally with regards to putting down roots. It’s not fair. 
 

We go back to no contact now until our scheduled brunch. 

[Jibralta]

40 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

He feels like he keeps coming towards me and I keep moving away.

That old story again? What's he been doing for the last 30 days?

[DarkCh0c0]

This is very hot and cold. And you guys obviously want different things in life. You also don't even know how compatible you guys are in the long run, and you've only known him face 2 face since December.

@1a1a I hope you can reach out to that part of you that gives solid advice on this forum, and give such advice to yourself. You're better than this, and can do better than this guy.

 

[Batya33]

I know of one happily married couple where she wouldn't date him at first because he knew he didn't want more kids.  Then he changed his mind, they dated, married, had twins.  But it was a very unusual situation, and he knew he loved being a dad -he had 4 kids already - and he was widowed at a relatively young age - so his change of heart came with a lot more insight, wisdom, experience.  They seem happy -about 15 years later.

In your situation he changed his mind way too quickly about a major decision. I don't buy it. He may have broken no contact -but you took his call.  Why?

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, 1a1a said:

He misses me too much, let’s take kids off of the table for now and work that out later. 

 Bargaining. 

Quote

During grief, you may feel vulnerable and helpless. In those moments of intense emotions, it’s not uncommon to look for ways to regain control or to want to feel like you can affect the outcome of an event. In the bargaining stage of grief, you may find yourself creating a lot of “what if” and “if only” statements.

Yours is maybe "If only Ive been ready for kids right now we would be together". His is apparently "What if we take kids off table and be together". 

In both cases, its perfectly normal to feel that way. Its one of the stages toward acceptance its over. 

[boltnrun]

One of my friends agreed to never have children because the man she was dating already had two kids and didn't want more and told her in order to get married to him she would have to understand she'd never have kids. She has regretted her decision, not the one to marry him but the one to never have children. She is wistful and admits to being envious of women who have children.

Choose wisely. He may be telling you what you want to hear in order to get you emotionally attached, then he'll spring the kids thing on you. And you:lol be too attached to walk away at that point.

I think your working holiday is a great idea. Also, ask him to give you space to reflect without conflicting, back and forth contact from him. He needs to give you this.

[1a1a]

Jibralta he’s been pulling away!!!!!! (Or, doing his own stress test on the relationship but with one issue so big the outcome of it literally impacts a 3rd person!)

 

14 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

@1a1a I hope you can reach out to that part of you that gives solid advice on this forum, and give such advice to yourself. You're better than this, and can do better than this guy.

 

This made me feel very seen in a warm, fuzzy way. (And also, you’re right, why can’t I see it for myself?!)

 

I took the call because I too had wished to break no contact. (But I have more discipline and a firmer believe that no further good could come of us trying to fit together without space apart). I guess I was hoping he’d come to me. But now I’m realising even if he does we’re damned because that’s always going to feel bad for him. 
 

Ugh, of course, he’s at the bargaining stage. Well then, more time apart is best because thoughts and feelings there aren’t stable. 
 

A friend shared a short video on existentialism. The philosophy that we make our own purpose in life. That the right path for you is the one you choose so make the most authentic choices for yourself. The feeling is not wavering, now is the time for travelling. Both I’m excited by the prospect of doing so, and I don’t think I can put it on hold without also putting on hold being able to set down roots. (And I can’t give him the relationship he wants without putting down roots so this feels like a big obstacle, even if he hits the bargaining stage and says ‘kids later’. I still know that’s his dream and it’s part of what I want in my life too.)

 

I think in its own, sad way, the conversation yesterday helped me realise maybe we can’t work. Still hopeful, but realistically, starting to understand the implications of us being at such different places in life 😞 god I wish he’d been articulate about this a lot lot lot sooner. I’m sure he won’t make that mistake again. Neither will I!

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

Jibralta he’s been pulling away!!!!!!

I'm glad you recognize that. Do you think it's fair of him to say that you're the one who keeps moving away?

[1a1a]

Not at all. Maybe that discrepancy in our two realities (his narrative versus mine, where mine doesn’t seem to be allowed to exist) is partly why that conversation was so upsetting. 
 

I missed a call from him today and received a text, it said and I quote ‘Just wanted to let you know that you’re rad!
I think all your dreams will come true’

So I called back and told him I thought he was pretty excellent too and he said he wanted to share that with me because we don’t often say what we like about each other. 
 

More bargaining? Probably more bargaining. 
 

(Also more breaking no contact. But if it’s the last time he does it that’s not a bad note to end on.)

 

Coming apart from someone you still have feelings for, and when you haven’t actually been together long enough to have that list of small niggling things that don’t work. So hard (for me, as this thread can attest to. For him too it seems). 
 

But now i kind of feel like he’s under a love spell and if he stayed with me in these circumstances, it wouldn’t be real. 
 

I have to wait and see what the next 3 weeks of being alone brings him. (And me, but I feel like I’m more weeks into this being alone thing than he is, and I have a direction now i’m heading in that feels right). 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

I feel sad to sit here and read how you've let yourself be wrapped around this man's finger. One message from him, and you're all in.

Why not look for a man on the same page as you, and who will go out of his way to please you and appreciate for who you are? It's not mission Impossible as far as I know.

[Jibralta]

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Not at all.

Excellent!

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Maybe that discrepancy in our two realities (his narrative versus mine, where mine doesn’t seem to be allowed to exist) is partly why that conversation was so upsetting.

Well, it happens to be a pretty big deal when your partner doesn't allow your reality to exist.

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

More bargaining? Probably more bargaining. 

I dunno... smacks of groveling to me. He holds all the power here; why would he bargain?

The question is, why does he suddenly want to make nice after a month of self-righteous, imperious coldness?

I think something didn't go his way, and now he wants some comfort. 

I have some ideas. And I hate to bring this up, but do you think he may have had another girl in his sights?

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

But now i kind of feel like he’s under a love spell and if he stayed with me in these circumstances, it wouldn’t be real. 

I agree, love spell or not, it's probably not real. Sorry.

[Batya33]

Love spell? Two realities? Existenstialism?  I promise you -relationships can be complicated and complex -but not like that and not when there's no relationship because of significant incompatibilities.  If you have to keep turning to your fancy shmancy pants language and watching philosophical videos then you are the one keeping a safe distance wrapped in that intellctual rationalization.

Yes, sometimes we need to sit quietly - and let some time pass -like a day or so - and be with our feelings, and "get" ourselves. You did that already.  Many times over.  You get that you 2 are not a match right now.  Maybe years in the future (because the flip flopping and because the goals are huge and take time to implement -long term travel, even longer term parenting). 

I don't even need to go to whether he's being unrealistic or unfair - I think in part he's reacting to your indirect approach, your flip flopping/wishy washy/chaos as far as the clutter, etc.  But if he is being unfair and stubborn it's just another reason it's a bad match.  If it helps you move away -justify by saying -he's stubborn, that's a bad trait in a partner -then sure so be it.  At this point whatever works to do a simple "bye see ya" instead of all of this turning to everything but the simple truth.

[boltnrun]

By chance do you find chaos and disorder exciting or alluring?