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It’s too early to be this hard *howls into the void*


1a1a
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How do I work out what feelings come from commitment conflict? For the larger part of our face to face time I felt hesitancy, hesitant to touch, hesitant to kiss. I would have thought I wanted to jump in and hold him forever based on how I felt before and I thought that feeling would come back with contact time. Now it has, is it real? Or just because my brain is broken on this? (I’ve decided to seek out the psych again but I’ll still have a long time where I have to grapple with this on my own). 
 

How long do I need to sit with the idea of pursuing children, like actively taking steps to bring them into my life, to know it’s my idea and not just a reaction to losing this connection I really believed in?

Jibralta, your take is the hottest, it required some thought. It’s hard to convey the whole of a person when you’re only posting about the troubles but he really did pour a lot into building and maintaining a connection with me when he was in India. The time and emotional investment was big. I don’t know, maybe partnering with me did fit with his plan and now it looks like he can’t he’s ended it. Or he’s reading online if you’re only just starting out dating and there’s an incompatibility over babies, end it. Where as if we had been dating for a while sit down with the reluctant partner and find out why. So which is it? 2 year relationship or just starting out because the emotional reaction I’m having to this wouldn’t be happening for a 7 week dalliance. And I wouldn’t feel like I needed to try and give it every chance of working. And maybe he did too and that’s why he pushed through my caution but misaligned baby timeline is too big a thing to push through and he’s a good egg who doesn’t want us to get more involved just for this to drive us apart later. 
 

These what ifs are the bane of my life. 
 

And I keep thinking of things I want to do for him, small gifts I want to give. Where was this feeling when we were good?

 

Really the only good thing I could give is to reiterate, one last time, that I don’t want to give up and I would like the future I’d like, however that looks when I really think about it. He thinks I don’t want kids in the future and doesn’t even know that having a kid was part of my day dreams when he was in India (obviously not a very big part and something I thought would happen in due course but I do want it to happen). 

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33 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

How do I work out what feelings come from commitment conflict? For the larger part of our face to face time I felt hesitancy, hesitant to touch, hesitant to kiss. I would have thought I wanted to jump in and hold him forever based on how I felt before and I thought that feeling would come back with contact time. Now it has, is it real? Or just because my brain is broken on this? (I’ve decided to seek out the psych again but I’ll still have a long time where I have to grapple with this on my own). 
 

How long do I need to sit with the idea of pursuing children, like actively taking steps to bring them into my life, to know it’s my idea and not just a reaction to losing this connection I really believed in?

For the first part you don't need to work any of it out.  It doesn't really matter because bottom line is you're not available to him whether it's because of as you put it "commitment conflict" or you're just not that into him.  Your brain isn't broken lol.  Your image of him and your expectations didn't match with reality.  That's happened to me more than once.  

Don't sit with an idea of pursuing children or try to be involved with children.  IMO.  Maybe make a list of pros/cons personal to you that involve having or adopting children (if adoption is an option). I had to do that -more in my head -when I had  to decide whether I was willing to be a single mother by choice (I wasn't).  Include fears, any loss of freedom you perceive, financial issues, how strong your heart's desire is to give to a child, have that level of responsibility, make sacrifices like the travel you say you want.

Once you think you really want to have your own children I mean it doesn't hurt to volunteer with kids, be around kids but it's really different with your own.  IMHO.  I mean it's not irrelevant but kids are individuals so for example I don't "love kids" -I love and like particular children.  Just like any person.  Some I connect with some I don't and vice versa.  Yes the birthing and parenting classes at the hospital are helpful once you're pregnant/about to adopt. But first comes that 100% desire to have a child -not just to be a mom or a parent but to give your all and then some to a child.  

There's no need to sit or contemplate the "idea" of having a child because just like your idea of your boyfriend wasn't in actuality what happened in reality people who have "ideas" of children they "sit with" aren't advancing the ball as far as parenting.  I know you didn't mean that entirely just pointing it out.  It's nitty gritty reality.  I live it every day and he's almost officially a teenager.

This guy was not for you ultimately.  He doesn't want to be with you.  It doesn't really matter why because it wasn't in your mind an actual long term relationship -to you it was short term and you didn't desire to kiss him.  So that's that - I mean a dealbreaker if I ever heard one.  So I don't think it's helpful to dissect as far as applying it to future relationships.

I hope you feel better.  

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2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Jibralta, your take is the hottest, it required some thought. It’s hard to convey the whole of a person when you’re only posting about the troubles but he really did pour a lot into building and maintaining a connection with me when he was in India. The time and emotional investment was big. I don’t know, maybe partnering with me did fit with his plan and now it looks like he can’t he’s ended it. Or he’s reading online if you’re only just starting out dating and there’s an incompatibility over babies, end it. Where as if we had been dating for a while sit down with the reluctant partner and find out why. So which is it? 2 year relationship or just starting out because the emotional reaction I’m having to this wouldn’t be happening for a 7 week dalliance. And I wouldn’t feel like I needed to try and give it every chance of working. And maybe he did too and that’s why he pushed through my caution but misaligned baby timeline is too big a thing to push through and he’s a good egg who doesn’t want us to get more involved just for this to drive us apart later. 

Well, you still haven't given me specifics about his efforts, only more statements that they were made. But that's your prerogative. It doesn't change my gut feeling that you are taking too much responsibility upon yourself for the demise of this relationship.

How long did you know each other in real life before he left for India? 

I've noticed that many (if not most) people on this forum advise strongly against investing too heavily in long distance romances, and I'm in agreement with that advice. It's too easy for a false sense of intimacy to build between near-strangers that way. The rubber doesn't hit the road until you're actually together, getting to know each other in real life. 

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When you say in my mind it wasn’t long term, do you mean I hadn’t really committed? Or more I did commit but then failed to follow that up with planning? I really thought that would come naturally when we were back face to face. And I guess a person who was more compatible with my pace, maybe it would have. Then maybe I wouldn’t. Or maybe they could have encouraged me into planning without it sounding like an ultimatum 😞

 

As evidenced by getting blindsided about this I haven’t thought much about kids, or no kids, but I have thought that once I have one I’ll love the heck out of it. (Although I am afraid of getting post partum depression and sleep deprivation). 
 

I thought I wanted to travel but I obviously never wanted it enough to actually do it. I probably would have reached a critical mass over the last couple of years and done thing but covid happened. 
 

I know how that sounds, with the uncertainty. But I didn’t think it was about him, more to do with just how long I’ve been single.

I remember when I first kissed him, we had to walk an hour back down a hill to get to the car and I wanted to hold his hand and never let go. Did I not feel that about him? Why was it so slow to come back when we were finally reunited? And that night we spent together was some of the worst sex I’ve ever had (he completely turned this around after I told him what I enjoy), but the emotional connection I felt then was so precious to me I pursued ldr. 
 

As I test and re test and test again, how the prospect of starting a family in the next couple of years feels to me, the thought occurs to me that if he sees me tackle this question and it doesn’t restore his faith in us. Then that is it and even though he thinks he put a lot of work in. He really didn’t have any patience with me at all on the big life stuff.

Specifics for time invested while overseas would be daily phone calls on average an hour long. And every time he really missed me a bunch of flowers would arrive on my door step, or a book of smoothie recipes when I was getting into post work out smoothies, or 3 hard to get albums by my favourite band. A new phone when he forgot to register his car and I got a huge fine for driving it, an Apple Watch for divali so I could go hiking and have a way to call for help when my Apple Watch inevitably went flat. 
 

Between this and the moving and the seeing in person how I live, very much not how he lives and still not being scared off, did I get it wrong in my impression of the depth and strength and of his love for me? 
 

The whole reason I was so cautious is because I was afraid he was in love with an imagined version of me and waiting for him to get enough accurate data to realise he’s not interested. 

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Why didn’t I bring that memory about our first time together back up in my mind before he returned. I’m right back there now in my head, unambiguous about how I feel about him. 

I feel like I killed the seedling of our partnership 

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The advice is unanimous, to heal, let go, move on. I see the wisdom of it, how everyone giving it has my best interests at heart, sooner i let go, sooner I can make space in my life for other things.

 

But I feel like we invested too much to just walk away. So I’m making changes that should have happened a long time ago around living better. And I’m grappling with the kids question as best I am. And I’m sitting with it because how I feel in the agony of being left can’t be a reliable indication of what I want. And I’m wondering how long I have to wait that out before what I’m saying I want can be relied on. And I haven’t stopped contacting him quite yet. 
 

Today I sent him quiz results from a ‘do I want a baby quiz’ (‘keen but concerned’ Well no kidding!) If he thinks I’m like his sisters husband, I’ll say ‘let’s see, and in a few years, still let’s see’. I’m not, if I go in I’m committing to it. I want him to know that. And the bunch of flowers he got me for Valentine’s Day had secret extra flowers that hadn’t bloomed yet. They’ve opened up now and look really nice. I sent him a photo of that too and told him they’re beautiful. Got a reply back that he too gets to look at blooms every day, and a photo do the flowers I gave him displayed in a vase on the kitchen table. Cue analysis mode. But then shut it down. Because if I lay out what I still want after thinking about it and it’s not what he wants that is the truth of it and ok, I’ll put it down and let it go. 
 

I’ve been telling myself so long you can love someone with all your heart and they can love you right back and it can still not be enough. It’s the only way to deal with splitting when things can’t be worked out. But did I say it so much that I closed the door on working through any hard parts at all? Is there a balance in between those two and I’ve gone too far in the direction of pragmatic? (But then why why why can’t I apply that pragmatism when they leave me?)

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10 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Specifics for time invested while overseas would be daily phone calls on average an hour long. And every time he really missed me a bunch of flowers would arrive on my door step, or a book of smoothie recipes when I was getting into post work out smoothies, or 3 hard to get albums by my favourite band. A new phone when he forgot to register his car and I got a huge fine for driving it, an Apple Watch for divali so I could go hiking and have a way to call for help when my Apple Watch inevitably went flat.

Are these the specifics that are in response to my question about his specific efforts? If so, I want to point out that phone calls and material goods do not a relationship make. "Effort" is communicating openly, working through problems, making adjustments for each other. All of the flowers, smoothies, albums, phones, and watches in the world can't achieve this. You might as well throw them down a hole. 

10 hours ago, Jibralta said:

How long did you know each other in real life before he left for India?

I did not see your answer to this question. Did I miss it, or are you not answering on purpose (that's ok, but I wonder why)?

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11 hours ago, 1a1a said:

When you say in my mind it wasn’t long term, do you mean I hadn’t really committed? Or more I did commit but then failed to follow that up with planning? I really thought that would come naturally when we were back face to face. And I guess a person who was more compatible with my pace, maybe it would have. Then maybe I wouldn’t. Or maybe they could have encouraged me into planning without it sounding like an ultimatum 😞

I think with all due respect you're all over the place. How can it be actually long term in your mind if your plan was to make sure he wanted you and not who he imagined you to be when you were long distance.  What do you mean "come naturally?"  Feelings come naturally.  Chemistry too. Passion. 

But a commitment is a combo of head and heart IMO. It's where you make a choice because of your feelings -and other reasons most often like compatibility, shared values, shared goals - that this is your person.  You desire to commit to this person - you don't want to see what else is out there. You want to be with this person as his partner and you do it joyfully and excitedly and contentedly. You don't need to convince yourself to commit or use word salad or big words or overthink. 

But it is partly a head thing - it's not all "natural" because it's you in your heart and head making an affirmative choice -not a negative choice like "well there's no one else I like today so why not" or "hmmm I didn't want to let his hand go so that must mean I'm in love and should commit to him." Or "I'll never find anyone better in reality even though I dream of someone better so ho hum I guess I'll commit". 

I mean people settle all the time - I just got a private messge on facebook about that from a new acquaintance "I'd contacted a divorce attorney but then I got pregnant again so I figured I'd try to make this work" but further information she shared showed me she wasn't in it with her whole heart and head.  I'm not talking about those fake commitments.  

It felt like an ultimatum because you two were not on the same page.  You saw yourself as just starting to get to know him in person.  And in person you were wishy washy, not sure, all over the place and he sensed that so he laid down the law because he doesn't want to be in Wishy Washy land.  He was rigid but I think it was in response to your loosy goosy attitude.  

Please do not grapple with the kids question unless it's about logistics only.  Like "where would we live" "I want to be a stay at home mom but we can't do that financially so what about that" or "our parents are getting older and we'd need their help with the baby" or "are we on the same page about what to do if the baby/fetus has birth defects". Don't grapple with whether you want the responsibility of parenting.  If you have to grapple don't. 

You know what -might seem small to you but I have an almost 13 year old and yesterday just like when he was a baby I had to try to eat with one hand (no I couldn't wait -I was starving and needed like an IV of coffee) - because he was moody, he needed his mom, he wanted to cuddle on the couch behind me and have me cuddle him and comfort him.  I'm mom.  It doesn't matter that he's 13.  He needed his mom.  Then.  Not ten minutes from then when I likely would have been done with my breakfast.  So I self talked "this is what I signed up for. He needs me despite my desperately needing my time to eat in peace for ten friggin minutes". 

Sounds harsh and cold right? Shouldn't I drop everything and ignore my lightheadedness because I'm Mom and my boy needs me?  Well no.  I'm a person.  With needs, hanging on by a thread with the lack of time to myself.  So think about that.

Think about that as one example of many where if you're grappling can you imagine how much harder it would be to be ready to drop everything -drop your basic needs over and over?  And my child is typical. You may be blessed with a child with disabilities or learning differences or whatever (yes it's hard but many see it as a blessing too so I add that)- and no you can't outsource all of it -I mean you can but at some point then you're not being his parent, his support system. At some point.  So stop with the grappling please. 

A kid needs to know his parent wanted him 110% at least and was ready to do all it took to birth or adopt a child and raise that child and sacrifice while also showing the child appropriate boundaries (but no it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to tell my moody child -leave mommy alone and let me have my darn coffee for 10 minutes). 

I don't know about other kids but my son asks me all the time because he loves hearing it -how much we wanted him.  How I didn't care that he kicked me hard in the bladder in utero  when I couldn't get to my office bathroom for ten minutes and thought I'd pee in my pants.  How much we love him, how much we work hard for him and show up for him and are in his corner.  I can answer all of those questions with my heart and soul.  He deserves nothing less IMHO.  Please do not settle for less when it comes to the best interests of a child.  

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Jibralta this distinction is on point. 
 

I wonder if my own parents path affected how I approach this a bit. I wasn’t planned and I wasn’t an accident. Just allowed to happen. Although I don’t think anyone would open that door without 100% wanting what could come of it so Batya insight still applies. 
 

I ended up asking him if he was open to coffee on Sunday. I’ll say my last piece (ultimately along the lines of love isn’t enough but love and doing what you can to still fit together and I know I want kids and can explore why I am ambivalent about them now. I believe there’s some flex in my timeline. And I realise I’ve been wrapped in red flags since you got back, being brutally honest because I wasn’t sure. I am more sure now). Then I lay it to rest, I’ll feel like I honoured the feeling on top of the hill and time we stayed connected while we were apart and we learned enough about each other to know we aren’t going to fit (because I can get closer on kids but I will not transform into a person who’s where he is over night). Maybe a bit of me hopes with me being more decisively committed he’ll have more tolerance to the not guarantee of kids. I will assume not. 
 

Thing is, he accepted the invitation, and first of all my panic that my actions taken to try and make it work won’t land, because he’s wise, or his feelings have faded, or the desire to start a family really soon with someone who is already there is even stronger than his affection for me dissipated. And then I was less certain about being a mum in two years time. (But still I think now, If kids are ever going to be a thing I need to actually think about it. Just waiting it’ll probably pass me by). 
 

I’m frankly startled at how differently I felt after coffee was arranged. Makes me realise I can’t make trustworthy decisions right now. 

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I’m not sure, and not sure how to determine that?
 

I do feel like when he ended it I saw a future I thought I was going to have die and that is part of the grief. (Wasting the chance to form that serious intimate connection with someone  who’s heart spoke to me is another part). Maladaptive attachment style and ego could easily also be in the mix. 
 

There is one difference from the last time a serious relationship ended. The question of being alone again and fear of being alone forever, they’re not on my mind. I don’t think I’ve ever had such a loud chorus of friends saying ‘we love you, you’re going to get through this’ (and there was a time where there were no friends and it was a big thing missing in my life). I’ve seen him like 10 times in meat space and hadn’t really done much to fit him into my life, not much to miss. And there’s a kicker, why didn’t I make room? Cos he’s a bad fit or because I hadn’t straightened my brain and heart out as much as I thought I had?

That failure to make space for him, I’ll share that, and how my mind has visited our potential future as parents long before he returned and if his take away is that I’ll never want them, it’s worth reassessing. And how when he pushed me for a plan now he got fear but if we could be a couple that turns towards each other and works through things then it’s worth examining why fear? I have to declutter before I could bring a kid into my house. What’s stopping me? Can I finally move past this. Do I want to keep Any of these things more than I want a life partner? Motherhood? Space to invite friends around? Freedom to relocate?! No, not even a little bit! I have no idea how to take care of a kid - take parenting classes, I dread the sleep debt, will our differing waking hours actually help take the edge off of that? Is he going to be able to make time and show up when work gets busy? The kind of busy that was the catalyst for asking himself if it’s worth going into the busy period continuing his relationship with me when it was not unfolding the way he had hoped? Can I still work once I have a kid?! (I’m a freelance sound tech, there’s a lot of flexibility in that. And there’s a couple who perform at one of my venues who are totally smitten with each other and have a newborn. A baby together and they have found a way to care for it and still do the work they love. Relationship goals!) And that I actually haven’t seriously dated anyone since my early 20s which means I haven’t had any more practice doing serious relationships since then. Maybe I do need to identify what I want and make plans and reassess my timelines! Part of what attracts me to him is that he knows what he wants and is committed to making it happen. I want that in a partner but I’m not offering it myself! 
 

I have a bit to say, it’s been a wake up call. And he could still be the wrong one for me. I can only lay it out for him to consider (and honestly, I’d hope to hear some introspection from him too because I think there are things he could have done differently over the last two months too, so that he never got to the point where he felt so lonely he cried.)

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15 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

That failure to make space for him, I’ll share that, and how my mind has visited our potential future as parents long before he returned and if his take away is that I’ll never want them, it’s worth reassessing. And how when he pushed me for a plan now he got fear but if we could be a couple that turns towards each other and works through things then it’s worth examining why fear?

Interesting how passively you describe this - and abstractly.  You didn't fail to make space for him -he's not a piece of furniture that was delivered when you weren't expecting it- you weren't into him enough to choose to spend time with him, to make future plans with him.  You really think about this as your mind "visiting" a "potential future"? How about getting down to basics - you were wishy washy about the future, including potential to have a family with him.  You thought about it before you were dating in person.  We all think about lots of things. 

But the proof is in the pudding -what did you do with those thoughts other than think them? Couples don't need to "turn towards each other" -that's redundant - the definition of being a couple is - coupling, right?  

You then describe his actions as pushing you.  It's only pushing because you're not on the same page.  There's no take away - no analysis. He said I want X you said I am not sure if I want X and if I and even if I do want X in the future I can't tell you when that will be."  That's as good as saying "never" because what is he supposed to do with that response? 

Couples work on their relationship all the time. What work are you going to do as a couple if you two are not on the same page about a major life decision? It's not work to try to convince each other and you can't make half a baby.

 

I like how you considered the sacrifices involved in parenting - all true and certainly part of what people think about when it comes to parenting.  Would you be able to work outside the home?  Yes -with child care resources in place and depends on what your child is like, the resources available, your budget, the hours your work requires.  Etc.  

If you do meet him I'd be far more simple and direct than what you wrote here.  

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So the thing is you don't know what kind of human you're going to give birth to.  Typical, not typical, etc.  So you have to be ready to accept a lot of unpredictability.  Planning is good, getting a home ready is good, being stocked with basic infant care needs for feeding, diaper changing, knowing CPR, having a safe place for baby to sleep, etc. Having a safe environment as far as air quality (no smoking, or strong chemicals, etc).  

My son slept through the night very early on -fairly unusual - but what also was unusual is I had New Mom Insomnia so even when he was sleeping I was on high alert -especially because I was so anxious about SIDs so I was constantly checking his breathing.   I didn't "sleep when the baby sleeps" so I was exhausted.  And my husband had to commute out of state 2-3 days a week starting when our son was 2 weeks old. So I was all alone with him at those times.

Then we had a flu strain epidemic where the baby couldn't yet be vaccinated and we couldn't get the new one -which meant -being uber careful to keep him away from people.  So to your point about friends coming around - not much of that and not handling the baby.

There's lots more -this is just the newborn stage but again my son was typical/typically developing.  He was in the NICU but only for a day or so given a fever.  We all hope for the best but the bottom line is  -planning is good and parenting is really so unpredictable and that's one aspect that is not for everyone (luckily my prior career was wildly unpredictable with crazy hours so that prepared me despite it having nothing to do with babies!).  

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To put it more bluntly I didn’t do all the romantic things because I wasn’t compelled to. And I kept seeing him because i wanted to be certain that feeling wasn’t going to come back (and i really hoped it would!) before calling it a fail. Writing that out in black and white I think I should have been up front about it really early on. Maybe he could have continued at my pace, maybe he could have cut and run, at least he would have been able to make an informed choice.

 

Being direct in my communication is something I struggle with. I’m gonna keep thinking over this tonight try and condense it down to the bare bones, get rid of the passivity. 

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I don’t know what it’s worth but I’ll mention this too, this whole thing has made me realise I’m stuck and I’m the one keeping me stuck. I use tv shows online as a form of self medication and drown out my thoughts with podcasts and feel like I have no free time but that’s not true there’s hours and hours and hours of poorly spent time! The feeling to watch is gone, the podcasts are on pause, I’ve been sitting in silence. And making a list of everything I want in life and tackling the hoard with more success than previously (my super bored housemate has been helping when he’s home too). How does that relate to us or kids? I can’t hide behind the hoard if I let it go. 
 

The boy might not be for me despite my best efforts. Like you say he shouldn’t have to wait around while I shape up. But if he wants actions not just words, here are some that can be seen manifesting over a short period of time.

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2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

ecause i wanted to be certain that feeling wasn’t going to come back (and i really hoped it would!) before calling it a fail.

It's not about being superficially clear - consider why you choose passivity especially when you're faced with a decision - you might learn something from it (whether you share it here or not).  It's like at work -if you make a choice and the choice is a mistake part of taking responsibility is using the active voice.  "I chose X.  I didn't know at the time that Y was going on.  I should have checked on Y before doing X" rather than "It ended up that X was a bad choice because Y had happened and next time hopefully my mind won't immediately go to X without having checked on Y first."  Imagine how annoyed (or worse) your boss and/or team would be if you tried to pull the second description.  

Just like waiting for a feeling to come back - that's a dangerous game to play with yourself especially if it affects someone else. It's not about "hoping".  When I dated I gave it 4 dates with a new person to feel a spark -the desire to kiss him even if we didn't kiss yet. Often I knew earlier it would or wouldn't work.  But I didn't wait.  I showed up, I didn't try to force a spark but I showed up, I looked nice, I let myself be in the person's company.  

If you believed that you needed in person time with your long distance person that's fine -as long as he knew that -as long as he knew that the typing and talking wasn't enough for you to get to know him for any realistic purposes for a potentially serious romantic relationship.  He didn't know that -he thought the opposite - maybe his mistake maybe yours.  It's unclear.  

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1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

I use tv shows online as a form of self medication and drown out my thoughts with podcasts and feel like I have no free time but that’s not true there’s hours and hours and hours of poorly spent time!

I hear you.  Over this pandemic time given over a year of virtual schooling, more than that of all telework by my husband in a two bedroom apartment, I had to be extremely strategic about when I would have a block of time to get my work done.  And when I had that precious block I trained myself to put my phone away out of sight (which was hard as I need my phone to log on remotely to work).  I've become even more efficient that way.  Also I can't access this site or social media on my work laptop so that helps.  I'm also strategic about when to do housework and what types.  Plan ahead -it really helps keep you honest IMO.

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I spent two hours writing a letter last night, got to a concluding paragraph, thought it sounded better as an intro, moved it and found myself writing the whole letter again (I think) getting rid of the passivity. (Your demonstrative example is very excellent). 
 

Today he arrived to pick me up with a small serve of curry for me to eat later.   The other side of a conversation and him reading the letter he says I have understood where he’s coming from, perfect letter, wouldn’t change a thing. He did hold out hope. He wondered what 1a1a would think in this time apart. His hope has increased from where it was before. And he says people don’t break up in a day (he’s not wrong). We aren’t back how we were though. The problems are still there until I address them. But he offered to come and help me declutter. And he still wants to go on road trips with me and spend time with me. So, we will, and I’ll put what I say I want to do into practice, and we will revisit this conversation again. He also, doesn’t think I could go from no plan to ‘ok let’s do it in 2 years’ in 2 days. (Things like this make me feel he is a keeper.) 

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It sounds like he is willing to wait longer.  Are you now attracted to him -you said you weren't that into kissing him, etc.  Is he allowed to pursue other women/keep his options open while he helps you clean up/hangs out with you? What is the "way you were" that you are not back to?

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Attraction has spiked. And it was thinking about that future point where we’ve been living together awhile and we’re solid and comfortable and we decide to lose the protection that did it. Really weird experience. 
 

Never discussed, more intuited. I know I won’t, if he remains smitten with me he won’t either. We were talking about making a list of what you want in a life partner on the drive home. I said I’d already done one, would he like to see? Yes. Has he ever done one, no. You should do one ‘if I make a list now it will just be you’

That stage of dating where you’re exclusive, intimate and seeing each other regularly and are starting to trust in the longevity of the other person (for me anyway, his last two months might have felt different).

Edited by 1a1a
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Never mind. Hour and a half long phone call today where he went through my letter point by point saying how this is just all about me. Saying that he didn’t understand why I gave him the key. In his world when you give a key it’s an invitation to move in. There’s not even space in my house for his wallet when he comes over. Why would he want my key? He’s not going to be there if I’m not.

He says we’re standing still, I haven’t moved at all. It’s all talk, I’m like a rollercoaster I want this I want that I want this. 
 

He said he would have loved a letter that said ‘when can I move in with you, when can we start a family’

He said I always jump to the negative outcome. He’s never heard of attachment theory, 1a1a has psychological scars from childhood that affect how she perceives her relationships with people? He did not know this until today. 
 

I told him about how I used to be in an open relationship with a fine lad who didn’t light my fire and then I met someone I did and then there was bad overlap and the open relationship ended and so did the one with the guy I was really into and then I chose monogamy and him rather than losing him and never regretted the situation (now I write that here why did I tell that in such detail?!) He said he wished I hadn’t told him, he doesn’t like hearing about old relationships. 

 

He started to say with this conversation we were going backwards. I said ‘you did say it was over in the intervening days. That destabilises the relationship further.’ He didn’t acknowledge that at all. Just I’m pessimistic for always thinking it’s over (you know. All those times it wasn’t, and then that one really recent time when it Was!)

And it’s all moot because we got back to kids and he is dead set on 12 months. He only wants to be my partner if we can start for a kid in 12 months. I told him that just isn’t enough time for me to work out how we navigate troubles together. It’s a big decision having a kid, huge. I’m trying to come to you but 12 months is too soon that’s a hard limit for me.

 

’we want different things’  ‘I love you but we want different things. I can’t come to you on this one’.

 

And I can’t come to him. 
 

And I can’t imagine coming back from this conversation. Never have I felt so much like every single thing I said was the wrong thing to say. Nothing landed. Not one damn thing!

 

 

Edited by 1a1a
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No keys or kids until you have a home to live in, are married and in a stable relationship with someone who plans to live/work in your country for the for good.. Keep it simple. He is offering none of this. Just twisting your arm for keys and being a uterus for him. There's no guarantee he'll stick around or even pay child support when he eventually moves back to India.

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I'm reeling, I've never had a relationship conversation that went as badly as that one. Like every thing I said was run through a "opposite meaning" translator. And he accuses me of bad faith!

The good news is he never kept the key, it looked identical to another one in his wallet and came back to me to get marked up with texta. But he has three CDs of mine that are pretty precious. I'll ask for them back tomorrow. This positivity hoop (of being more positive about the outcome and acting as though that positive outcome is a foregone conclusion) that he wants me to jump through (where some thing happens that makes me feel like we're coming apart but he thinks I should act as though that is not the case. Like you said you were done dude. I'm not going to come to you asking to plan the house and family from That starting place! I already need to cross more ground than you to feel trust and you just sent me waaaaaaaay back over there past the starting line when you asked for space)

 

What the *** just happened?!

Edit to add: Now I think I know him reasonably well, as well as you can get to know someone long distance. And I can't imagine what you describe Wiseman as being the reality.

And yet how he's currently acting. The shoe fits!

Edited by 1a1a
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