I feel really low at the moment.

[Fudgie]

Okay, so here my thoughts.

1.) Sleep, sleep, sleep. It's paramount. It also underlies a TON of feeling crummy, emotionally and in other ways. Did you know that poor sleep has been shown to get neurotransmitters, like sertoninin, and their associated receptors way out of wack? It's true and now we have clinical studies to show it. Sleep is how the brain "cleans" itself out (look up "glymphatic system" if you want to learn more). It's relatively new information that underscores the importance of getting better sleep. You cannot function at your best without getting enough sleep, and that amount may vary person to person. Find what works for you. Get a good routine down and use some meds (doctor should help you) if needed, as long as they don't zonk you. 

2.) Antidepressants. Medication is not a cure-all but is a good tool. Frankly, I'm never convinced when people say "well I tried some but I felt x y z, eh". There are so many different kinds and iterations out there, all with different side effects because different ones target specific neurotransmitters, sometimes multiple ones. Just trying 1-2 is a drop in the bucket. There are antidepressants that many people actually LOSE weight on because they work in a stimulant fashion in the brain. Some make you sleepy (good to take before bed), others kind of "wake you up" a bit.

I would talk to your doctor or ask to be referred to a psychiatric doctor or other healthcare worker. You can tell them exactly how you feel and what side effects you would not find tolerable and they can go through with you and maybe find you a medication that helps. If the side effects are bad, tell them and they can help you find another one.

This is actually my field of work and also something I'm very passionate about. If you want any links to mental health resources to just read more about medication and/or therapy, send me a PM and I can give you some good reading material. 

I'm so sorry you're struggling. 

[Carnatic]

2 hours ago, Coily said:

A pattern I noticed is you mention feeling low and sleep problems in cycles, have you noted either health/diet or social aspects to these cycles? Maybe it's a worthless observation, but as all humans have cycles of sorts maybe it's worth taking notes of your daily routine in and out of these phases.

 

Not that I can think of, though both times I posted here I was away with family, so sleeping in a hotel bed. Did I mention that the other month when I was being a sadboi?

[Kwothe28]

8 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I'm still exercising if that's what you mean. But also that thread was an example of how I can say the wrong thing because I'm not good with words and give the wrong impression about my mental health. Changing how I look, I don't think is really going to make me feel better but also something about how I look makes me unhappy. I just don't like seeing myself, or being seen by others.

Meant more about more positive outlook on things. Exercising is fine if it will make you look at the mirror and like what you see or just to be more healthy in general. But lots of that things come from our head. For example, I dont think you have it that bad in life. OK, you maybe dont have nobody romantically so you dont feel loved that much and that is fine. You maybe dont have some fancy job but you have "a job" that is paying bills and you have enough for you and not to borrow money or stuff like that. You have a network of friends, go out, even visit music festivals you like. Its not really that bad of a life, its just fine. There is a room for improvements and some areas that need work, but that is also OK if you are willing to do that. But you dont need me or anybody else to tell you that, you need to feel that yourself and to say that to you when you look at yourself in that mirror.

[Carnatic]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, Kwothe28 said:

Meant more about more positive outlook on things. Exercising is fine if it will make you look at the mirror and like what you see or just to be more healthy in general. But lots of that things come from our head. For example, I dont think you have it that bad in life. OK, you maybe dont have nobody romantically so you dont feel loved that much and that is fine. You maybe dont have some fancy job but you have "a job" that is paying bills and you have enough for you and not to borrow money or stuff like that. You have a network of friends, go out, even visit music festivals you like. Its not really that bad of a life, its just fine. There is a room for improvements and some areas that need work, but that is also OK if you are willing to do that. But you dont need me or anybody else to tell you that, you need to feel that yourself and to say that to you when you look at yourself in that mirror.

Yeah I know I shouldn't, I don't know how to stop myself thinking negatively about myself and my life though. I can battle the negative thoughts with positive ones and be thankful for the good things in my life, but it's a constant battle, requires total focus all of the time and wears me out and I slip back into bad ways.

It's easy but not pleasant, to just sit and think to myself that I've been dealt a bad hand in life, whether I'm bothering that I have no real skills or talents, that I fail at everything, that I'm pug-ugly, that even when healthy I'm still fat, that that I'm socially awkward and boring, that I'm not very considerate or thoughtful towards my friends, that I have a speech impediment that people mistake for a learning difficulty, and that everything I have in life has just been given to me and not earned.

These are pervasive thoughts that I can't run from or repress so I have to drown them out with positivity, and some days I just can't, and don't have the positivity in me to beat it right now.

I know that I'm lucky too, that I might not have been gifted with talent, intelligence, looks or personality but I have a caring family and I have friends who can see beyond my shortcomings and still want to be friends with me. When I'm feeling really down though, and I can't keep up the effort of thinking positively then the aborted attempt at positive thinking just lingers in my mind and turns to poison, all those attempts at positive thinking do is actually make me feel really guilty and ashamed of my mental health problems, like 'who am I, who has been given such a good life, to complain?'. It's so selfish of me to not just be happy. I also feel guilty for caring, feel ugly, that's vanity, feel sad about being below people, that's pomposity, and so on.

I don't know really. I know that I shouldn't care about my flaws and that I should just love myself for who I am, but then that just feels like complacency. OK some things I can't change, but some things I can. Someone who lacks any outstanding positive traits isn't going to get far in life and that in itself can cause real unhappiness and if I'm not at least a bit dissatisfied with myself then I'll never get to change the things I can change.

And I know too that someone will come along and say that I choose to think these things and that I choose to react negatively to them, that's true but it's just having the energy to choose any other reaction. It's like arriving after a long trek, at the foot of a high mountain, feeling ready to drop dead from exhaustion already and you can choose to climb the mountain anyway, or you can sit down and recuperate... but somehow recuperation doesn't feel good because you need to be at the top of the mountain. Somehow you need to get there, just not today.

Ugh... this is a bad week. My brain feels like it is swimming in treacle and every positive thought feels like such an overwhelming effort that even my eyes start to lose focus and I almost forget how to read.

[Batya33]

It’s not about think positive. Yes. Count your blessings has its place but it’s only one of many tools.  It’s about taking positive action. Could be a small kindness could be doing something healthy like subbing water for soda or (like I did this morning ) pushing yourself to keep going with your workout when it’s cold outside and you’re tired and sore.  

Example. I turned on the light yesterday.  It flickered on and off crazily and I was scared we were having an outage while I’m trying to do the school bus mad dash for my son. I slightly panicked and was irritated.  My son took it as his cue to dance around as if it was a disco ball. Two very different reactions.  His stayed with me.  I love that attitude.  How often do you react by laughing or dancing ? Instead of pity party or “why am I so ugly “ etc. 

it’s not a battle  yes it takes practice   No it’s not about making yourself think positive or arguing with yourself.   get out of your head  - best ways I know to do that are really vigorous push it to the limits cardio exercise, or drinking extra water which sort of relaxes me with a reset or listening to a friend tell you something about her life or day whether it’s good or bad news.  Get out of your head in short.  

 

[Capricorn3]

Are you currently going for therapy? If not, why not? (Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread). Therapy will only work if you carry it through and not just simply agree with what the therapist is saying and then go home and forget about it. That would be wasting both your time and your money. (Not saying you are doing this (I haven't read all your posts) - I am just wondering why it seems that therapy isn't or hasn't been working for you).

[Carnatic]

14 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

Are you currently going for therapy? If not, why not? (Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread). Therapy will only work if you carry it through and not just simply agree with what the therapist is saying and then go home and forget about it. That would be wasting both your time and your money. (Not saying you are doing this (I haven't read all your posts) - I am just wondering why it seems that therapy isn't or hasn't been working for you).

I have been through CBT several times, think a standard course of CBT is twelve sessions or similar. CBT is the only form of therapy available locally and while I have given it everything I have each time, I've just been thus far unable to unlock that part of my brain where I can intervene in my negative thoughts.

Part of the problem is that I haven't ever been able to adequately explain my feelings, and also that going to therapy feels like a positive step and makes me feel optimistic in the moment, but paradoxically that means that when a therapist does see me they always see a generally positive, happy, relaxed and optimistic person who already knows and understands all the techniques that we're covering in therapy and who just appears to have a vague notion that something isn't right but whose life isn't especially affected by this.

I'm quite stressed out with work at the moment. The pandemic is still impacting my income heavily, it has sucked all the capital out of my business and created a catch 22 where I need investment to get back on my feet but have nothing left to invest because I had to spend all that money on the costs of business while bringing no money in. I have a couple of potential jobs lined up, but that is in no way assured as a combination of unreasonably demanding deadlines on requests from potential clients before I can actually get work from them and equipment issues when putting together bids which I can't afford to spend my way out of are making it difficult.

I feel trapped a bit in the culture of 'fake it till you make it' where everyone pretends to be super successful, super positive and super happy no matter what. The times I have managed to drop my guard and open up have always led to negative consequences, I've been fired from jobs by employers who lost faith in my ability to do my job as soon as I opened up about mental health and I've been through an abusive relationship with a partner who saw me as easily exploitable, so I guess that with each of these negative experiences the subconscious buttresses that support the wall I build around my emotions grow stronger.

[Batya33]

54 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

I feel trapped a bit in the culture of 'fake it till you make it' where everyone pretends to be super successful, super positive and super happy no matter what. The times I have managed to drop my guard and open up have always led to negative consequences, I've been fired from jobs by employers who lost faith in my ability to do my job as soon as I opened up about mental health and I've been through an abusive relationship with a partner who saw me as easily exploitable, so I guess that with each of these negative experiences the subconscious buttresses that support the wall I build around my emotions grow stronger.

Why can't you be your own person despite your perceptions of "culture'  and why are you sharing your personal mental health struggles with employers or in any professional setting?  If you can't make it to a job or on time why not simply say you're not feeling well? 

[Carnatic]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Why can't you be your own person despite your perceptions of "culture'  and why are you sharing your personal mental health struggles with employers or in any professional setting?  If you can't make it to a job or on time why not simply say you're not feeling well? 

I was never late... but it can be hard to keep things hidden when you work in an open office. I know I could ignore the culture I mentioned, I have done on numerous occasions in the past but my point is that whenever I have, I've paid the price.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I was never late... but it can be hard to keep things hidden when you work in an open office. I know I could ignore the culture I mentioned, I have done on numerous occasions in the past but my point is that whenever I have, I've paid the price.

No it's not.  My colleague and I used to work in the same office pre covid (and we will again) -she wasn't feeling well two weeks ago, she had a medical procedure last week -she told me both as it affected our work deadlines.  She gave me no details, I did not ask.  Had we been in the office together and I saw she looked unwell I might wish her well but I wouldn't ask for details nor would she mention.  I felt horribly ill at times when I was pregnant in my office - interacted with people constantly - and I never gave them actual details about how I was feeling - that would have been TMI and I didn't want to be told to go home/rest etc. 

When I had to hide I was pregnant for 15 weeks I had to wear accupressure bands under my suit jacket in the heat of summer, I made up excuses about leaving for doctor appointments, about being unable to stay past 8PM because of exhaustion from pregnancy, and no one asked me why I was constantly visiting the restroom.  

It's the same thing.  I'm sure I looked out of it, exhausted, "off" at times and I didn't share and I wasn't asked.  Had I been I would have made up some excuse.  in fact one of my coworkers saw the accupressure bands, pieced it together and told me later once I announced that she suspected but of course didn't ask.  It's unprofessional to ask.

[Rose Mosse]

7 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I'm quite stressed out with work at the moment. The pandemic is still impacting my income heavily, it has sucked all the capital out of my business and created a catch 22 where I need investment to get back on my feet but have nothing left to invest because I had to spend all that money on the costs of business while bringing no money in. I have a couple of potential jobs lined up, but that is in no way assured as a combination of unreasonably demanding deadlines on requests from potential clients before I can actually get work from them and equipment issues when putting together bids which I can't afford to spend my way out of are making it difficult.

I feel trapped a bit in the culture of 'fake it till you make it' where everyone pretends to be super successful, super positive and super happy no matter what. The times I have managed to drop my guard and open up have always led to negative consequences, I've been fired from jobs by employers who lost faith in my ability to do my job as soon as I opened up about mental health and I've been through an abusive relationship with a partner who saw me as easily exploitable, so I guess that with each of these negative experiences the subconscious buttresses that support the wall I build around my emotions grow stronger.

Try not to worry about what others are doing. What matters is what you do with yourself and feeling motivated and fulfilled with what have set out for yourself. Stay productive and on track with your own timeline or what you need to have done. Can you find consistent part time work?

[boltnrun]

I was between full time jobs so I worked part time as a cashier at a major home improvement retailer. I picked up as many hours as I could on the weekend and spent my off hours searching for full time work. After 3 months I did find a decent paying full time position with benefits.

Right now retail and food establishments are desperate for employees. Many of them have bumped up their pay because they have to or they won't find anyone. If you need to supplement your income you could find something part time in the evening and on weekends or whenever you have time. 

And it's never a good idea to share mental or emotional health struggles at work or with clients. If you feel down and they ask, just say you are fine and yes, paste a smile on your face. You do sometimes have to fake being fine. Your family and friends are the ones you can feel free to share your struggles with.

[Carnatic]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

No it's not.

OK, you're starting to sound like one of those who believes mental health issues are make believe, or that people suffering from depression just need to 'toughen up'.

[Carnatic]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

And it's never a good idea to share mental or emotional health struggles at work or with clients. If you feel down and they ask, just say you are fine and yes, paste a smile on your face. You do sometimes have to fake being fine. Your family and friends are the ones you can feel free to share your struggles with.

It's not intentional, but sometimes, the mask just slips... or someone will come and speak to you, acting like they are concerned and want to help but as soon as you suggest that you are struggling with something mental health issue, their attitude changes and suddenly you're 'difficult' and 'a liability'.

[boltnrun]

58 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

It's not intentional, but sometimes, the mask just slips... or someone will come and speak to you, acting like they are concerned and want to help but as soon as you suggest that you are struggling with something mental health issue, their attitude changes and suddenly you're 'difficult' and 'a liability'.

And that's unfortunate. If you had a broken leg you would get sympathy but mental and emotional health issues aren't viewed the same way.

And that's why professional help is so vital. Having someone who can assist you in finding ways to deal with mental and emotional health issues is important, so you won't feel so overwhelmed and won't be tempted to confide in coworkers or clients.

I have never told anyone at my previous workplace why I quit (I quit because the job was exacerbating my pandemic related anxiety due to the company's complete disregard for employee safety). I just said it turned out the job wasn't right for me. 

I do hope you are able to find a way through this.

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Carnatic said:

OK, you're starting to sound like one of those who believes mental health issues are make believe, or that people suffering from depression just need to 'toughen up'.

Not at all.  I just meant don't share it at work if at all possible.  Just like you wouldn't share what color your snot was coming out of your nose.  My dad had bipolar depression for over 60 years of his life - probably longer -I'm going on the diagnosis.  I knew they were real.  I lived it for over 40 years so please don't ever accuse me of not getting it.  I'm saying as Boltnrun did -yes you have to fake it sometimes in a professional setting. I don't think my dad had to toughen up - he needed meds and therapy and sometimes hospitals and thank goodness he was wiling to comply with those.  A lot having to do with my mom encouraging him and supporting him and taking him to hospitals when needed. 

My dad did have to share it at work when he had to be hospitalized but no he didn't talk about his feelings at work whether he was feeling depressed or whatever.  He was an amazing professional and when he was too ill to work he didn't work.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Carnatic said:

It's not intentional, but sometimes, the mask just slips... or someone will come and speak to you, acting like they are concerned and want to help but as soon as you suggest that you are struggling with something mental health issue, their attitude changes and suddenly you're 'difficult' and 'a liability'.

Yes, people make mistakes of course -it's why work is so hard sometimes because of keeping on the game face.  I don't have mental health issues but I know how hard it is if I am stressed or sleep deprived or both not letting others see me that way.  I've had to do that countless times since I've almost always worked in intense, high stress environments.  I don't think it's fair to tell a colleague or boss about this kind of personal matter because it puts the person in a really awkward position.  Certainly in an emergency -like if you're about to pass out from a panic attack or need to leave work suddenly but even then to me, less is more whether physical or mental.  That is why I gave you the pregnancy example -I had both emotional and physical symptoms and hid them for over 3 months.

[1a1a]

No advice requested which is good because I have nothing, just solidarity. 
 

And co sign do whatever actions you can that look after you and/or help you transcend. Today I found my van full of gear had been stolen from the drive way last night. I cried a lot and it’s hours later but I still feel completely drained and a bit sick, I feel like I’m moving through treacle. I need to pack to move but I look at the full rooms, don’t know where to start and sit back down again. In a bit I’m gonna go for a walk though. That’s not quite doing proper cardio, but it’s not ordering desert delivered either (my first impulse), a compromise action.  Not a cure all, probably not even a cure little. But something I can control. I’m sure you already do small kind things for yourself. Keep doing that. (Also fight that negative self talk that says you’re just not bad, that inner critic is a born liar!)

 

That’s a real catch 22 that you present cheerful when you are seeking mental health care. I’d recommend bringing in something exactly like what you’ve posted here for the health care provider to read and get a sense of how you’re thinking when you’re in a funk. Ok, I did have one bit of advice. Unsolicited though please feel no obligation to take it. 

[Carnatic]

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes, people make mistakes of course -it's why work is so hard sometimes because of keeping on the game face.  I don't have mental health issues but I know how hard it is if I am stressed or sleep deprived or both not letting others see me that way.  I've had to do that countless times since I've almost always worked in intense, high stress environments.  I don't think it's fair to tell a colleague or boss about this kind of personal matter because it puts the person in a really awkward position.  Certainly in an emergency -like if you're about to pass out from a panic attack or need to leave work suddenly but even then to me, less is more whether physical or mental.  That is why I gave you the pregnancy example -I had both emotional and physical symptoms and hid them for over 3 months.

Well I don't know about everyone but for me, and for a lot of other people I know of. If you're going through a mental health crisis while at work and don't tell someone then the dip in your productivity will be noticed and you'll be asked to explain it... it's just fact, depression or anxiety or whatever you're going through occupies a portion of your mental capacity leaving less to do other stuff. Even if you're really good at fake-smiling and your demeanour is totally unaffected by what you're going through, the workplace is an environment that requires you to commit the majority of your attention and aptitute to the tasks assigned to you, so any dip in what you are able to commit will inevitably be noticed. If part of your mental capacity isn't occupied by depression then you aren't depressed in the same way that if there are no cancerous cells in your body then you don't have cancer.

You could 'sandbag' I suppose, never devote more than about 40% of your capacity to work-related tasks in the hope that should a crisis occur, it won't be noticed... but that's really bad advice.

Employers bend over backwards to tell us how concerned they are with mental health in the workplace and how compassionately they treat it, the last one who fired me sent me to an occupational therapist in my first week for an assessment, not because they thought I was depressed, just as a matter of course. So when you are taking longer than normal to do things, or making more mistakes in your work and your boss demands an explanation it's reasonable to think that being honest about your mental health problems is the best course of action.

[Batya33]

As I wrote above I agree.  My point was not to share personal medical stuff with colleagues unless absolutely necessary.
Of course you can tell your employer about a medical condition or disability or need for medical leave.  Just don’t overshare. They’re not required to care on a personal level so share what you have to ask far as it affects your work performance and work attendance. pregnancy is similar because of the stigma of whether the woman will return to work after plus all the travel restrictions. I told human resource first.
 No. I didn’t overshare by confiding in coworkers when I felt stressed about my high risk pregnancy or anxious or panicky about miscarriage. even though it affected my mood and ability to focus at times at work.  That’s what I mean. 
If your boss demands an explanation all you’re required to say is you’re not feeling well or similar.  Generic. Whether mental health or physical. Not his or hers business unless you’re asking for specific accommodations that require further details.  Yes. Employers care about our health including mental health because it helps the productivity and bottom line. In my workplace masks aren’t mandated but we’re asked to wear so others feel comfortable.  Comfortable employees are more productive. But no they’re not required to care about you on a very personal level.  

[Fudgie]

Carnatic,

I too am not a huge fan of "fake it until you make it". I do think, however, there is a difference between faking positivity all of the time and just simple boundaries/not disclosure. 

Honestly, I've been struggling big time over the past month. I got COVID, my smell/taste is slow to come back, then I developed another viral illness and then another infection (bacterial) so now I have pnuemonia. Mentally, it's taking a big toll on me. 

That said, I have some other outlets and I think it's important to use those so you're not "bottling it up" but I would not reveal those details to work folks (boss or colleagues). Unfortunately, there is a lot of stigma with mental health and whatnot. You don't have to pretend to be farting rainbows and daisies but I would not talk details with work folks.

I work with a coworker who has cancer, bad cancer too. She has been undergoing treatment for a while and it's been rough on her but she has better days than some. I mean, it makes sense right, cancer and illness in general can ebb and flow. She has been very open with her diagnosis and struggles. I certainly don't do this but some coworkers talk s__t about her when she takes vacation and apparently posts happy family photos on Facebook. These nasty coworkers say "Well, clearly she's soooooo sick, if she's able to go to xyz with her family!"

In short, people are nasty. Don't reveal personal stuff like that at work. 

[Batya33]

Fudgie I hope you feel much better soon. Fudgie explained what I was trying to much better than I could. 
About twenty years ago I was working on a deadline in my office on a Sunday.

Someone I supervised was supposed to come in too to help.  She did. I noticed she wasn’t feeling well.  I asked if she was ok. She told me she had a bad hangover and felt sick. I never relied on her again and I was very frustrated and upset with her for choosing to get drunk the night before given her work responsibilities- which required focus and brain work.

 I also was surprised that she thought it was ok to share this information with me in a professional setting. I wasn’t being nasty. And her over sharing as if I were a buddy was not a good look.
It takes just common sense and remembering that you’re at work. You seem to have a lot of intelligence and common sense but I think you get in your own way a bit when you give in to the negativity - it’s why I recommended above the sort of tool box you can look to to practice being able to function better when you have those feelings. Good luck. 

[boltnrun]

I also found that even when you only notify your supervisor that information gets out anyway. For example, the HR rep at my former workplace literally would step out of his office and tell me confidential things about the people who had just left his office. (He also tried to date some of the employees but that's another story.) So you do need to be very careful what you reveal.

Maybe something like "Please keep this confidential, but I have been having some difficulties recently. I can assure you it will not affect my work. If I feel it might I will notify you." But never say something like that to a coworker or a client. 

I don't care much for the "Suzy Sunshine" type myself. Just professional and polite is my preference.

[Fudgie]

Wow Batya, that's crazy that she would admit that to you, as her boss!

Hanging in there, I'll get better. 

BTW, Carnatic, I think it's okay to say, if you're having a bad time and it's somehow noticiable, just something like "oh, I have a lot on my plate today" or "it's just one of those days". You don't have to go into details. You don't have fake a smile and say that nothing is wrong, but wouldn't go into details or allude to mental illness or struggling. The stigma should not be there, it's dumb, but don't let this be a tripping point for you.