Valentine’s Day with someone you’re not exclusive with?

[jackie103]

I get that but if she knew for awhile did she suddenly decide she did not want long distance?

 

Well she mentioned she doesn’t do long distance because it’s just too difficult, hence the end to her last relationship since her ex moved away.

 

She brought up that she might have to move about a month ago because she was telling me about how she might have to take her prelims twice and I asked why. Her PI was interviewing at a different university that following week and last night she said she was pretty sure she would have to move because the university essentially offered her PI the job at a much much better university.

[Batya33]

So you seem like a reasonably smart person. And I feel like you're writing a lot of nonsense. You're answering the questions, sure, but you're dodging the basic stuff here -the obvious stuff. For half the time you've been going on dates with her she's known -apparently- that she likely would have to move - and apparently knows she doesn't do long distance. So, hmmmmm. One would think that if she were really into you either she'd want to stop dating then so as not to get more attached to you or she'd want to give you the heads up about the expiration date coming up -or the likelihood. (And my husband and I were long distance when we first started dating again and you can bet we discussed the issues with that before we got back together because we saw serious potential).

 

So now you're coyly answering questions and mulling over whether you have to tell her that you're dating others? Mulling over whether to keep seeing her even though you say you're looking for a serious relationship? What's the point of this blinders on stuff?

[jackie103]

So you seem like a reasonably smart person. And I feel like you're writing a lot of nonsense. You're answering the questions, sure, but you're dodging the basic stuff here -the obvious stuff. For half the time you've been going on dates with her she's known -apparently- that she likely would have to move - and apparently knows she doesn't do long distance. So, hmmmmm. One would think that if she were really into you either she'd want to stop dating then so as not to get more attached to you or she'd want to give you the heads up about the expiration date coming up -or the likelihood. (And my husband and I were long distance when we first started dating again and you can bet we discussed the issues with that before we got back together because we saw serious potential).

 

So now you're coyly answering questions and mulling over whether you have to tell her that you're dating others? Mulling over whether to keep seeing her even though you say you're looking for a serious relationship? What's the point of this blinders on stuff?

 

I wasn’t sure where we stood after we had that conversation last night but after reading some of these comments, I agree that this is still casual despite her saying she doesn’t do that.

 

I don’t plan on telling her I’m dating other people. I know deep down I want to be in a relationship with her... and I know deep down I can’t keep seeing her if nothing is going to come of it since it will hurt me in the long run.

[figureitout23]

I am not guessing at her level of interest; I don't think we have enough information to know whether excuse/practical etc.

 

I do think there is no future here based on current facts, because neither of you is open to one. Therefore, I suggest you move your attention to other interests (social and otherwise) because she is a distraction from your path.

 

Its this line of thinking that keeps posters who are grasping at straws hopeful though.

 

Do we know without a shadow of doubt where her mind is at? Of course not, if we only advised based on known emotional feelingsand acts we couldn't ever say anything to anyone. We can go by her actions and basic logic. Like at pointed out here:

 

 

So you seem like a reasonably smart person. And I feel like you're writing a lot of nonsense. You're answering the questions, sure, but you're dodging the basic stuff here -the obvious stuff. For half the time you've been going on dates with her she's known -apparently- that she likely would have to move - and apparently knows she doesn't do long distance. So, hmmmmm. One would think that if she were really into you either she'd want to stop dating then so as not to get more attached to you or she'd want to give you the heads up about the expiration date coming up -or the likelihood. (And my husband and I were long distance when we first started dating again and you can bet we discussed the issues with that before we got back together because we saw serious potential).

 

So now you're coyly answering questions and mulling over whether you have to tell her that you're dating others? Mulling over whether to keep seeing her even though you say you're looking for a serious relationship? What's the point of this blinders on stuff?

 

People dont act in this manner without purpose, she knew she was moving, therefore knew all along she was not looking to date anyone where she currently is seriously, because she "doesn't do long distance." I promise you if Portia De Rossi was long distance she would find a way to make it work.

 

Im not saying this to be harsh to the OPer, Im saying it because posters have been getting hurt lately because theyre being pushed to see hope in situations that are screaming, "walk away."

 

You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em!

 

If shes ok with the status quo, ok! But its such a bad idea going in hoping it isnt what youre being shown and told. Go in with eyes wide open,less chance of being hurt this way.

[Batya33]

I wasn’t sure where we stood after we had that conversation last night but after reading some of these comments, I agree that this is still casual despite her saying she doesn’t do that.

 

I don’t plan on telling her I’m dating other people. I know deep down I want to be in a relationship with her... and I know deep down I can’t keep seeing her if nothing is going to come of it since it will hurt me in the long run.

 

Then go with the deep down simple message and stop playing mind games with yourself. She's been honest. She is moving away this summer. She doesn't want to be involved with you once she moves away. She doesn't think it's a good idea to see each other now. You know and I know that even when you're into someone 100% and enthusiastic about the future relationships take work and have their lulls and ups and downs so you need that strong glue to hold you together especially then. She's always been lukewarm at best and now she's gone from lukewarm to done -and I mean done for your purposes. She doesn't want what you want deep down. Time to move on.

[jackie103]

Then go with the deep down simple message and stop playing mind games with yourself. She's been honest. She is moving away this summer. She doesn't want to be involved with you once she moves away. She doesn't think it's a good idea to see each other now. You know and I know that even when you're into someone 100% and enthusiastic about the future relationships take work and have their lulls and ups and downs so you need that strong glue to hold you together especially then. She's always been lukewarm at best and now she's gone from lukewarm to done -and I mean done for your purposes. She doesn't want what you want deep down. Time to move on.

 

Yes, I don’t think I can continue with this thing with her. Either way, I’m also not keen on a long distance relationship so it would never work out

[ThatwasThen]

Yes, I don’t think I can continue with this thing with her. Either way, I’m also not keen on a long distance relationship so it would never work out

That's why you should have had that conversation with her sooner. When someone doesn't have the same dating goals as you and particularly when they are not showing the same interest in you as you have in them, then it's time, as Dad used to say "chit or get off the pot."

 

You would do well to learn when to relax and see how things go and when you clearly need to cut ties. There was a reason you kept dating others... your gut was telling you to not burn any bridges. They call that "exercising your options" these days.

 

Good luck for a "successful" relationship developing in your next adventure in dating. ;o)

[IAmFCA]

The challenge with the DTR conversations is they can be very confusing. "Friends", "casual" etc can mean so many things. I believe she doesn't do casual; she likes you enough to feel its rewarding and not just a fling. At the same time, it isn't future oriented, which makes it contrary to your goal. And which means she isn't feeling star struck, to reinforce the point others have been sure to make. Because your instincts leave you open to feeling attached, while hers are pulling away slowly as she pulls up her tent stakes, your paths will continue to diverge. She will going somewhere else, leaving you feeling like... That was frustrating! What am I doing? Where am I going?

 

Its just bad all the way around.

[jackie103]

The challenge with the DTR conversations is they can be very confusing. "Friends", "casual" etc can mean so many things. I believe she doesn't do casual; she likes you enough to feel its rewarding and not just a fling. At the same time, it isn't future oriented, which makes it contrary to your goal. And which means she isn't feeling star struck, to reinforce the point others have been sure to make. Because your instincts leave you open to feeling attached, while hers are pulling away slowly as she pulls up her tent stakes, your paths will continue to diverge. She will going somewhere else, leaving you feeling like... That was frustrating! What am I doing? Where am I going?

 

Its just bad all the way around.

 

Agreed that it’s bad all around. I don’t see a future for us and although some may think this discussion should’ve happened earlier, I think it’s still early enough in the game to drop the idea of this relationship and not be totally heartbroken.

[IAmFCA]

Agreed that it’s bad all around. I don’t see a future for us and although some may think this discussion should’ve happened earlier, I think it’s still early enough in the game to drop the idea of this relationship and not be totally heartbroken.

 

I have had it early and had it late ; I haven't found a formula. In my current LTR we had the discussion before our first date because we already were friends... but we have had to do it all over again twice since then. I like the idea of not shoulding all over ourselves and others. Life unfolds as it does because its a many faceted thing.

 

Good on you for your thoughtful approach to the wholle situ.

[ThatwasThen]

Agreed that it’s bad all around. I don’t see a future for us and although some may think this discussion should’ve happened earlier, I think it’s still early enough in the game to drop the idea of this relationship and not be totally heartbroken.

I don't think the convo should have happened earlier then the date you started this thread and asked for opinions (back on page one). By "sooner" I meant before you were getting advice to chill, keep seeing her and see how it goes.

 

I agree that you are doing the right thing by not pursuing any longer and its a good thing that you talked to her to find out her lack of dating goal(s) since she's in no position to be seeking out a serious union where she currently lives.

 

Be well and keep your wits about you. Someone's actions should tell you where they are emotionally.

[figureitout23]

Agreed that it’s bad all around. I don’t see a future for us and although some may think this discussion should’ve happened earlier, I think it’s still early enough in the game to drop the idea of this relationship and not be totally heartbroken.

 

Ummm....how so?

 

Youve been in limbo about this woman since November... drowning in insecurity and fear and allowing more confident people to tell you to hold onto a non starter when you could have gotten your answer (Something relationship minded people, which you claim to be, ask on date one) and moved on months ago. You have a long history on this board alone of staying in situations where they hold all the power and you wait around like a puppy hoping to get picked. Time to pull up your big girl panties and take a dating break and learn who you are, what your desires are and what youre looking for in a relationship. Right now you go out looking for someone else to define the relationship and your role in their lives, you hold more power than you realize. You dont have to be a passenger, you dont have to wait to get picked. Take control of your dating life.

[IAmFCA]

If FIO is right about the pattern, then yes, it is as good a time as any to dig underneath the topsoil and get at the root of it.

 

In my own discovery journey, my paradigm shift led me to the idea to Choose, not get chosen. I am sure my family and friends thought this was obvious for me from day 1, but it wasn't. Being the chooser (and both people can be ~s) caused me to slow down, withhold sex from myself (or in one instance choose a man for that purpose, in part), to be single for longer than I had guessed, and to reinforce myself with self talk to believe in my process etc.

 

It was harder to find someone to date because after a time, I found I would choose very few people as candidates. On reflection, I saw that that makes sense.

[Batya33]

I'm actually not sure what DTR means "definitely try to resuscitate" after asking a guy to be exclusive (LOL just kidding) - but I don't think the conversation is complicated in the least when both people see serious potential. i'm not talking about the convo of 'it's just sex, ok" or "just so you know I'm not looking for a relationship" but what Jackie is referring to the "what are your intentions". The two times I had to bring that up - in June 2003 and May/June 2005 -yes I remember! - the fact that I had to bring it up was a red flag. In both cases they simply were not that into me. In one case he agreed to be exclusive but we only dated 3 months after that -he was never all in. In the other he said he wasn't quite ready so I gave it one more month during which time he showed me a really scary side of him so I ended things (knowing full well he wouldn't care that much -maybe he showed me that side to get me to do that, who knows)

 

I'm not saying my experiences mean everything but they are very typical of the numerous talks like these I know of. When my husband and I decided to get back together with the intention of seeing if this time could be "forever" the whole conversation was less than 3 minutes -yes I was a little overwhelmed so that was about 30 seconds of it but i wholeheartedly said yes. Simple, done, because we were on the same page.

[IAmFCA]

A Define The Relationship conversation isn't complicated. It IS an opportunity for miscommunication. What one says and what the other hears is not always the same thing.

[Batya33]

A Define The Relationship conversation isn't complicated. It IS an opportunity for miscommunication. What one says and what the other hears is not always the same thing.

 

I disagree. If two people want to be together they each have a vested interest in making sure the other person understands where they stand. The miscommunication happens when the goals are not aligned and especially when one person wants a committed relationship and the other one doesn't. Sometimes the one who doesn't wants to keep her options open so she will intentionally be vague/hedge and the person who wants the commitment will put their own spin on it.

 

And in the rare cases there is a miscommunication, since both people want to be together, they each have a vested interest in resolving it ASAP.

[figureitout23]

I disagree. If two people want to be together they each have a vested interest in making sure the other person understands where they stand. The miscommunication happens when the goals are not aligned and especially when one person wants a committed relationship and the other one doesn't. Sometimes the one who doesn't wants to keep her options open so she will intentionally be vague/hedge and the person who wants the commitment will put their own spin on it.

 

And in the rare cases there is a miscommunication, since both people want to be together, they each have a vested interest in resolving it ASAP.

 

True.

 

Miscommunication tends to flourish when one person doesn’t want to hear rejection, and it’s such a dirt word isn’t it, rejection, but it’s a reality every single human being alive experiences, It’s ok not everyone wants what we want and not everyone likes us like we like them. Think about every person you’ve ever rejected. They exist right?

 

In 2019 people aren’t stupid, they know to say just enough to keep someone on the hook. That’s why it’s best to have a clear idea of what your boundaries and expectations are.

 

It’s a process to get to that point though, most go through trial and error.

 

But like Bat said if two people are in the same page their communication tends to be in the same wavelength as well when it comes to what each person Means to them.

 

Being human isn’t always easy...

[IAmFCA]

Bf and I have had all manner of misunderstandings on this topic. And yes we have worked hard to resolve them, once we figured out they existed.

 

In less intimate conversations, misunderstandings can easily occur around the margins. Such as, what does "friends" mean? What does "dating" mean? These seem like silly questions but I have seen a wide range in behaviors intended to be under those definitions - and the presumption that others would use the same definitions.

 

I'm not sure why we are exploring the potential for misunderstandings. It remains that when we know what we want and why, then we are smart to screen for it as soon as possible. We need these conversations to screen out people whose goals are different than our own. The first time bf and I had this conversation was when we first ran into each other by happenstance, before he asked me on our first date - before we expressed any intentions towards each other of any kind. We weren't interested in dating anyone without a specific purpose.

 

And this is true as well:

 

... people know to say just enough to keep someone on the hook. That’s why it’s best to have a clear idea of what your boundaries and expectations are.

[Batya33]

Bf and I have had all manner of misunderstandings on this topic. And yes we have worked hard to resolve them, once we figured out they existed.

 

In less intimate conversations, misunderstandings can easily occur around the margins. Such as, what does "friends" mean? What does "dating" mean? These seem like silly questions but I have seen a wide range in behaviors intended to be under those definitions - and the presumption that others would use the same definitions.

 

I'm not sure why we are exploring the potential for misunderstandings. It remains that when we know what we want and why, then we are smart to screen for it as soon as possible. We need these conversations to screen out people whose goals are different than our own. The first time bf and I had this conversation was when we first ran into each other by happenstance, before he asked me on our first date - before we expressed any intentions towards each other of any kind. We weren't interested in dating anyone without a specific purpose.

 

And this is true as well:

 

I think the misunderstandings happen when one person is initiating the conversation about intentions with a reluctant partner or one who doesn't see serious potential/is trying to worm his/her way out of serious potential. The conversations about friendship and dating are not what I am talking about -those aren't about commitment- those might be about whether you're going to date in the first place, or what the person's general goals are in life including with relationships. Of course in casual dating arrangements there can be misunderstandings (not when I dated -the assumption was you were seeing other people or could be interested in doing so before "the talk") and in sexual arrangements there can be as far as monogamy. I'm staying on the topic here- talking about whether the two people want to be in a committed relationship.

 

In that specific case if both people want to be committed to each other both people will do their utmost to be clear because the downside is too risky -that the person they want to be with will misunderstand and, for example, get upset and/or get snapped up by someone else. I am not talking about the general goals that might be discussed even before going on a first date, I am not talking about what each date "means" to the other person or what sex means to the other person, or what it would mean to have sex. I've had all those conversations and those can happen prior to commitment or can be ongoing in a relationship where there is no commitment and no real potential for commitment on both sides even. People who are casually dating might need to have those conversations especially if sex is involved (for health/pregnancy risk reasons) and there can be misunderstandings of course.

 

In my opinion if there is a "misunderstanding" about a response to "I would like us to be exclusive" or simple words like that -and I mean simple - and there is no language or alcohol barrier all that means to me is that the people are not on the same page and often the person who wants the commitment calls it a "misunderstanding" when it should be called "I wanted to hold onto hope so when he acted like the Fonz who couldn't say the word wrong and in between gasps for air and coughs said "you are amazing and I don't know if I'm ready/good enough for you/over my ex" he really meant that he wanted to be with me, only me, it will just take some time, right?????" Yes with rare exception in the "anything possible" category. Like when Ross and Rachel got married when drunk in Vegas if memory serves me right.

[IAmFCA]

Ahh Batya, the Fonz reference is precious!

[Batya33]

Ahh Batya, the Fonz reference is precious!

 

I absolutely did it for you - so few of us would know. My sister and I LOVED it and we tried to imitate it constantly. Even better than "ow my nose".