Finding me...

[Batya33]

Lol. Sometimes I actually envision these dates that you describe Batya as I read your posts. They sound like something we'd see on a tv show.

 

It kind of reminds me of the movie "Must Love Dogs", when Diane Keaton goes on a bunch of online dates, and with one date in particular, she leans in to fix his crooked toupee. Lol.

 

And now I'm going to be paying attention to ice cream choices when I'm out on dates/meets in the future.

 

LOL! I had a date once with a guy who said he planned on driving his car until it reached the mileage between here and the moon. And told me that he listened to self-help books on relationships while driving.

 

And the classic. I was out with a guy at a cafe known for online dates for first meets. We're sitting at a table and he's cute and all and it's obvious that we're not clicking. Two tables over is a guy also on some kind of first or early date but he keeps looking at me! So I go home and I have an email. From that guy. He says that I'd contacted him recently on the dating site (didn't remember but maybe I did) and he recognized me and did I want to go on a date -he explained that he wasn't going to see that woman again. Meanwhile my actual first meet emails me a thanks but no thanks email so I figured -hey -I'll share my version of "when one door closes another one opens."

 

I ended up seeing that guy once or twice- he was kind of odd....... but made for a great story.

[milly007]

I know I have some work to do on myself though, and I have no doubt that working on my guardedness and showing interest in someone in person is something I should work on. I just get scared off if I'm really into the guy.

 

I see some of myself in you when I was younger, trying to navigate letting your guard down enough to create a connection and being safe and vulnerable all at the same time.

It's much like trying to pat your head and rub your belly at the same time. It seemed like a riddle I couldn't figure out.

 

Once I figured somethings out, I had some `Ah ha' moments and it just got a whole lot easier. Therapy was helpful.

 

For the sake of space the crux of it all is learning to trust yourself.

The message I got as a child was to be good and compliant and everything would be ok.

 

What I learned as an adult woman was that being imperfect is human and that's what people can relate to. I spend my young adult hood trying to be perfect and inauthentic, even to myself.

 

I would scout the room for people I could trust, but that was mostly a waste of time. People will disappoint you all the time. But when you learn that you have a voice, you aren't perfect and love and trust yourself just the way you are, things will shift for you.

 

I'd watch people and the way they'd interact. Those who had people orbiting around them were ruthlessly real. They were comfortable in their own skin, even if it wasn't all shiny and perfect.

 

You'll get there. You are already on your way.

 

This is good advice. Thanks, reinvent.

 

Normally I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin and unapologetically myself. But when around men I really like, things change. I just need to learn to relax. Men I'm not interested in, no problem.

 

And I'll admit, the conversations we had via text were great, and so much more substantial than when we met in person. Well, until the end of the night, and we were saying good bye - that's when the good conversation started, and it was the best conversation of the night. And I think us standing across from each other and making eye contact, played a big part in this, and the fact that we were about to part ways (I think that put a bit of pressure on us as well...you know, having to say goodbye after building this connection over 9 months). But this is clearly only my interpretation, not R's.

 

I'll figure things out, eventually. :)

[milly007]

LOL! I had a date once with a guy who said he planned on driving his car until it reached the mileage between here and the moon. And told me that he listened to self-help books on relationships while driving.

 

And the classic. I was out with a guy at a cafe known for online dates for first meets. We're sitting at a table and he's cute and all and it's obvious that we're not clicking. Two tables over is a guy also on some kind of first or early date but he keeps looking at me! So I go home and I have an email. From that guy. He says that I'd contacted him recently on the dating site (didn't remember but maybe I did) and he recognized me and did I want to go on a date -he explained that he wasn't going to see that woman again. Meanwhile my actual first meet emails me a thanks but no thanks email so I figured -hey -I'll share my version of "when one door closes another one opens."

 

I ended up seeing that guy once or twice- he was kind of odd....... but made for a great story.

 

Ah, I luv the café story. Small world...

[milly007]

I know I have some work to do on myself though, and I have no doubt that working on my guardedness and showing interest in someone in person is something I should work on. I just get scared off if I'm really into the guy.

 

I see some of myself in you when I was younger, trying to navigate letting your guard down enough to create a connection and being safe and vulnerable all at the same time.

It's much like trying to pat your head and rub your belly at the same time. It seemed like a riddle I couldn't figure out.

 

Once I figured somethings out, I had some `Ah ha' moments and it just got a whole lot easier. Therapy was helpful.

 

For the sake of space the crux of it all is learning to trust yourself.

The message I got as a child was to be good and compliant and everything would be ok.

 

What I learned as an adult woman was that being imperfect is human and that's what people can relate to. I spend my young adult hood trying to be perfect and inauthentic, even to myself.

 

I would scout the room for people I could trust, but that was mostly a waste of time. People will disappoint you all the time. But when you learn that you have a voice, you aren't perfect and love and trust yourself just the way you are, things will shift for you.

 

I'd watch people and the way they'd interact. Those who had people orbiting around them were ruthlessly real. They were comfortable in their own skin, even if it wasn't all shiny and perfect.

 

You'll get there. You are already on your way.

 

And I just wanted to note, this is why I haven't regretted the messages/texts I sent to R, because I was being my authentic self (except for sending the text when I asked why his was curt. I think that message was driven more so by any insecurity I was feeling). I can understand why some people may have held back some information, or wouldn't have bothered sending the messages in the first place, but those messages were me/reflected my personality. I may have been a bit more open in my texts post-meet, but still, I have no regrets.

 

Plus, it felt good to end on a high note and just express some niceties and compliment him in the message I sent him today.

 

I do believe though that the conversations we had via text, were conversations that we should have been having in person. I guess it was just easier behind the screen. Because like I said, the conversation, in my opinion, didn't get good until we were saying good bye (i.e. - I told him that I was happy we reconnected, he asked why we lost touch years ago, etc.).

 

I've learned a lot through this experience. I won't be chatting endlessly prior to meeting anyone in the future, and I'll be doing my best to just relax and be myself during meets/dates with guys I'm interested in.

[Jibralta]

Milly, I don't think your negative energy or unhappiness is poisoning your relationships. I think your instincts about this guy were spot-on. I think that you have been taught to second-guess your own judgment and to please other people before you please yourself, and that is why you are uncomfortable with and questioning your decision about him:

 

I wanted to pursue nursing when I was exploring career options back in high school, but my parents disapproved. I'm wishing I put my foot down back then, but I didn't (and really, who wants to disappoint their parents). So here I am, stuck in a career where I've never really been happy, and this unhappiness is affecting every aspect of my life. Also, I have no doubt that I'm struggling with depression and anxiety (which also surfaced during my first year of law school).

 

I'm really tired of the criticism and judgment, even though I don't think they realize they're coming across this way.

 

I understand that parents want the best for their kids, but I don't feel like they have really ever listened to me. They always thought they knew better.

 

Even after first year law, I explained to them how unhappy I was, and it got to a point where I was prescribed anxiety meds, which only made things worse.

 

My parents still didn't listen when I told them how unhappy and miserable I was, and I feel like I was guilt-tripped into staying where I was, and continued to finish my education.

 

IAnd I'm trying to be careful with what I say because if by chance he were to think that something he said or did caused me this unhappiness, well...I think this would have a huge impact on his mental health because he just wants my siblings and I to be happy.

 

I also think that R was, as you so aptly put, a pleasant distraction from some turmoil in your life.

 

R was my distraction, to be honest, and now that he's out of the picture, I'm back to facing this depression, on my own (if this makes sense).

[milly007]

Milly, I don't think your negative energy or unhappiness is poisoning your relationships. I think your instincts about this guy were spot-on. I think that you have been taught to second-guess your own judgment and to please other people before you please yourself, and that is why you are uncomfortable with and questioning your decision about him:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also think that R was, as you so aptly put, a pleasant distraction from some turmoil in your life.

 

Hi Jib,

 

His temperament that night really was unusual. He caught me off guard a few times with his attitude, and I couldn't help but stop and think about how weird it was. Like I said, one minute he was sweet, the next he was irritable. In my opinion, it wasn't normal behavior.

 

I recall going out with a man a few years ago for a first meet. We exchanged a couple of messages and, unlike my usual course when it comes to meeting someone, we decided one Friday afternoon on a whim to have a quick drink after work. Normally I at least get to know someone over the course of a week or so. This guy was so volatile, moody, and irritable. His general energy and vibe was pure anger and frustration. I thought to myself, "Is this guy for real?". I obviously knew immediately that this guy wasn't for me.

 

I can't remember if I asked him directly what was up, or if he just came right out and told me, but he confessed that he was angry over some renovations he was having done at one of his homes, and that this woman he had been with for years (who wanted to marry him and have children with him, but he wanted neither with her) left him for another man. I guess he tried to get her back, but she had moved on. He admitted that it wasn't until she left him that he realized what he lost. I advised him that he should be taking some time for himself, as opposed to attempting to date other women right now when he'd only be rebounding (and wasting other people's precious time). He agreed. I grabbed the cheque as quickly as I could, paid my half, and ran out of there as quickly as I could. He asks, "Do you want me to wait with you until your cab comes?". I think my eyes got big and I said, "No thanks!". I'm thinking to myself, "please go.....".

 

This instance is the only time I can recall meeting someone who seemed THIS irritable, almost argumentative. R's attitude was along the same vein, but not nearly as bad. My eyes bugged a few times with R, too. I'm thinking, "What the heck?". Anyway, I think there's more to that story. I'll never know the real R and whether this is just how he conducts himself on a daily basis. If he does, good riddance. I don't need that in my life.

 

Most men I meet conduct themselves in ways that I would consider normal - they smile, are engaging, crack jokes, don't look angry. They're gentlemen. Even the men I've met where we knew there wasn't a connection, we still had a great time and treated each other with respect.

 

I know R's work is super stressful and I wouldn't be surprised if this had something to do with it, but it doesn't justify acting like a big man-child (honestly, that's what it felt like to me). Meanwhile, I just continued on being my usual quirky self, joking and laughing (after I got over the initial shock of what it felt like being in the presence of a large man-child). I really should have had a drink or two at this point. Not to say that I didn't have my quiet moments though when I thought our meet wasn't really going anywhere, or I was just completely turned off and felt like maybe, we were beating a dead horse.

 

At the end of the day, I do want to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I did want to see the good in him (soooo badly). He does have some good traits and honestly, I can't say I know the guy after meeting him for about four hours, but my main issue stems from communicating with him for 9 months via text, building an image in my mind of who I thought he was, and then being disappointed when we met in person only to find out that my impression of him was most likely waaaaaaaaay off.

 

There were so many times when I thought during our text conversations that it was too good to be true. And often he would say in response to my texts, "I feel like I'm reading texts to myself", and he would often mirror me and express similarities between us (i.e. - "Oh, I have that hat", "I feel the same way", "I do the same thing", etc., etc.). We would be talking about food and he'd say, "Did you try that new burger place? It's really good". I'd respond, "No, but I'll have to remember that". He'd then respond, "Don't worry. I'll remind you". He'd always speak to the future, as if WE were a sure thing and that there was no reason to question our compatibility (even though I always did because we had not met in person - I guess this didn't stop me from crushing hard though and hoping for the best if we actually did get around to meeting).

 

I have no idea if his texts were genuine, or if it was game play, but I'll give it to him - he's good (or I'm just a weenie for falling for it). Either way, if it was game play and he wasn't being genuine, he really needs to get a new past time and stop playing with peoples feelings.

 

I enjoyed chatting with him, and I remember so many times not being able to fathom NOT meeting him. I just couldn't see us not meeting after all that texting and feeling like there was possibly a connection. Eventually I did write him off, only for him to resurface.

 

At the end of the day, I did like the text version of R, and he was also an amazing distraction. I really liked our chats, and he said the same thing, many times. The odd part? Our conversation when we met wasn't the same. It lacked depth and rapport; that's until we stepped outside and were saying goodbye. I've said this a few times, but our conversation as we were leaving the bar was the best part of the night.

 

So although I believe that what happened between us when/after we met was for the best, I am missing the text version of R, and I do wish he took me up on that offer for a second meet.

 

All of this analyzing and disappointment is me coming to grips with the fact that he wasn't who I thought he was (and this might take a little time for me to get over, because he's been a constant texting figure (lol) in my life for longer than I would have liked. So yeah, it will take me a bit to get over it, but I will, in time.

 

I just hope I don't cave, become weak, and text him. I know this sounds nuts, but dam*t, I have to be strong. I'm now seeing things from the, "I couldn't help myself, I had to text them" point of view (I've never been in this spot before. Meaning, after we established that we wouldn't be pursuing things further).

 

His phone number is engrained in my brain because I didn't save him as a contact for a while. His phone number would just pop-up on my screen and darn it, it's an easy one to remember. Despite deleting him as a contact, my memory won't allow me to forget his number.

 

Although it hurt for the time being when I thought he wasn't going to respond, thinking he wasn't going to respond was actually helping me move on because it just confirmed that he wasn't who I thought he was. So when I saw his text pop-up on my phone yesterday, I think my heart fell into my stomach. I also prepared myself for the worst when I opened his message. It was like pouring salt on a wound. I appreciated him getting back to me, and the honest feedback, but it hurt (not gonna lie - but I think all of my venting and ranting here is a giveaway, no? lol).

[milly007]

Are you seeing any pattern between your interaction with R and the last person you dated and ran away from? We can lost in the weeds trying to decode another persons behavior but that effort is better spent trying to figure ourselves out.

 

Your dads perception is interesting, especially seeing that those closest to us see things we sometimes can't. Give some more thought to his comments.

 

I can say a whole lot more, but I think the point here is you are on the right track and eager to figure some things about yourself.

I would highly recommended, based on everything you have shared that you take a break from online dating. Even if it's just for a short time.

 

This is a target rich environment for you at this very moment, when you your most vulnerable to really get down to business and get to know yourself.

It would be a waste to distract yourself from the discomfort by chatting with some other unknown random man.

Don't run away from it, lean into it.

 

This bolded message from reinvent has really resonated with me.

 

Even when I'm stepping away from ENA it's on my mind and really rings true, I think.

 

I think delving back into the dating world right now would be a mistake and another temporary distraction on my part, which in the long run, is not going to help me at all.

 

So I think I'm going to avoid it altogether for now.

 

I did have a meet scheduled for tonight, but decided not to go through with it. He's asking to reschedule, but I'm just not feeling it.

 

He seemed nice enough and when I woke up to a message from him this morning, which said, "Good Morning!", I replied with, "Morning A., sure is a nice day out there".

 

His response: "Nope, it's sickly humid and disgusting". What the.....???? And he was being serious.

 

See people, this ^^^^ is what I have to work with. Lol

 

And this message exchange reconfirmed for me that maybe I do need a break. I want to step away from the phone, dating and my computer and any other noise, and just work on my physical and mental health, actually. I want to get things back on track work-wise, and at least explore the possibility of pursuing a completely different area of law (an area that wouldn't be nearly as intense as the one I'm currently in, and where, hopefully, my health, both mentally and physically, isn't being compromised).

 

I think I'd be less inclined to give up dating if I met more men I was interested in, but this really never happens - I mean, ever! I mean, where are all the nice guys with a level head on their shoulders? Are they out there? I would love to meet someone and have a long-term relationship, but I just never meet anyone I'm truly interested in.

 

Maybe this is for the best though because it will distract me from what I have to fix, I think. I just thought dating would be something fun to do while I'm figuring this all out. But so far, I haven't found it fun, yet I want to.

 

I haven't even been online until recently. My account on the site where I met R was only active for a short period of time, so even though I didn't really use it, and only met a few nice guys from there (but didn't feel any attraction), it expired last year. It's only been about R for a while now, but I'd like to change that.

 

I know that focusing only on myself is the better decision right now, but I feel like since I graduated from school, all I do is work. I'm just tired of working and not enjoying any fun, to be honest.

 

I have a couple of friends in this city, but everyone's so busy, and the other friends that I have live far away and are married with children. So trying to get out is often times difficult! Hence why I turned to OLD.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know what I SHOULD be doing, it would just be nice to enjoy some fun in the process.

[milly007]

And let me note, I’m just going through a rough patch right now, which I know will pass, and hopefully some time soon.

 

But I do think what happened with R exacerbated these feelings, as much as I hate to admit this.

 

Yet I will admit that because of what happened with him, it’s kind of forcing me to face my reality - which isn’t a bad thing, but it does involve some tough choices.

[Batya33]

What exactly do you mean by "nice" guy? Also my sense is that you experienced R as even more irritable/abrasive because you developed expectations of who he was and wasn't based on the texting you did. To me that's a mistake in dating (but not necessarily as much in a platonic relationship although I've had very different experiences meeting women in person for friendship as opposed to our texting).

I think of course some women want a "nice" guy which often means "passive" or "doormat" even though of course "nice" doesn't mean that. Also what do you mean by level headed -be very clear with yourself about what all that means to you. The generalities really don't get you very far. Also you may be telling yourself you want someone who is "level headed" and in reality you know that too much sameness/steadiness will bore you and drive you bonkers. Certainly levelheaded is important but be careful what you wish for - because someone can be very stable and have an edge, a silly side, a wacky/quirky side and be very stable and basically keep feelings under check, laugh but not a belly laugh, be embarrassed about being silly. I love the former. I am the former (I hope I am stable lol!) and dated a number of good guys who were way too "flat" for me.

 

Again of course don't date if you don't feel like it - no reason to date, ever unless you feel like it!

I do hope in time that your interactions with R had nothing to do with a dating relationship - you texted with someone who you met in person to see if you should date but those interactions were not dating, that meeting was not a date in the sense of being relevant to what dating is like. You're going to meet and talk to men in all sorts of places, environments, online - some you will be interested in getting to know better with potential for dating, others you will not. At some points in your life you'll find yourself interested in a number of people, at other points not so much. And what interests you, what excites and intrigues you will also change I bet.

I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch!

[milly007]

What exactly do you mean by "nice" guy? Also my sense is that you experienced R as even more irritable/abrasive because you developed expectations of who he was and wasn't based on the texting you did. To me that's a mistake in dating (but not necessarily as much in a platonic relationship although I've had very different experiences meeting women in person for friendship as opposed to our texting).

I think of course some women want a "nice" guy which often means "passive" or "doormat" even though of course "nice" doesn't mean that. Also what do you mean by level headed -be very clear with yourself about what all that means to you. The generalities really don't get you very far. Also you may be telling yourself you want someone who is "level headed" and in reality you know that too much sameness/steadiness will bore you and drive you bonkers. Certainly levelheaded is important but be careful what you wish for - because someone can be very stable and have an edge, a silly side, a wacky/quirky side and be very stable and basically keep feelings under check, laugh but not a belly laugh, be embarrassed about being silly. I love the former. I am the former (I hope I am stable lol!) and dated a number of good guys who were way too "flat" for me.

 

Again of course don't date if you don't feel like it - no reason to date, ever unless you feel like it!

I do hope in time that your interactions with R had nothing to do with a dating relationship - you texted with someone who you met in person to see if you should date but those interactions were not dating, that meeting was not a date in the sense of being relevant to what dating is like. You're going to meet and talk to men in all sorts of places, environments, online - some you will be interested in getting to know better with potential for dating, others you will not. At some points in your life you'll find yourself interested in a number of people, at other points not so much. And what interests you, what excites and intrigues you will also change I bet.

I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch!

 

Hey Batya,

 

I think you're missing the point I made in my response to Jibralta's post.

 

My point was, when referring to R's behavior, even if we had NOT been texting for months, and had only chatted for a few days, I still would have found his behavior unusual. My guess is, most women would have! Something was off.

 

Was I disappointed with his attitude? Of course I was, because I had a different impression of him based on our text exchange over 9 months. If I had only chatted with R briefly, like the guy I mentioned in my previous post who was also irritable, I would have just thought we weren't a match upon meeting, walked away, and never looked back.

 

That said, these are two separate issues. Whether R and I chatted for one day or nine months, his behavior was still unusual.

 

In terms of my post referring to meeting a "nice" guy. I think you're focusing too much on the specific words that I used. I was only venting about the fact that I don't meet many men who I'm truly interested in, and I would love to meet someone where I feel chemistry/a connection. I like sweet types, but with a backbone. I could never be with a doormat.

 

Even "D" who I mentioned more recently in this thread was someone I met about 8 years ago - so almost a decade ago!

[milly007]

And the next time I meet someone that I like (and I mean, in person/face-to-face), I'm hoping I won't let any nerves or insecurities be the driving force if I decide to reach out to them.

 

Moving forward, if I do feel my nerves getting the best of me, I'll give it days/a week to let things simmer (and I'll either NOT reach out, or if I'm going to send a text, it will only be upbeat).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if R sensed my nervousness/anxiousness when I texted him post-meet. I'll have to work on dialing it back, because I have to acknowledge that what I said was not very appealing. Wouldn't be surprised if I chased him away.

 

Sometimes in these situations, I never know what the right thing is to do, because my emotions get in the way. Hence why it’s probably best for me to give it some time, whether it be days/a week, before I decide what I’m going to do.

 

I don't mind the last message I sent where I complimented him, but in terms of the first two texts I sent him after we met, I am feeling kinda embarrassed now. I feel like I went from the cool, calm, collected chick to the overly-anxious, I want you to like me girl.

 

Like I said, this has been a learning experience.

[milly007]

I talked to my sweet dad today and apparently, they're coming into the city for a visit.

 

We had a brief chat over the phone regarding my job and how unhappy I am. I kinda broke down over the phone, explained to him how unhappy I have become, and he listened.

 

I think he's become a better listener over the last 7 or 8 years. He's always been an amazing father (you know, the kind of father who will essentially do anything for his kids), and I really don't know what I would do without him and my mom. They mean the world to me.

 

I also emphasized how important it is for me to receive proper support from family, and not just when things go wrong. Since graduating from school, there have been occasions where certain family members would get upset if I couldn't make it to a family event due to work & stress. They would expect me to drop everything to accommodate their schedules, even though it was not a convenient time for me (heck, I'd barely be keeping my head above water). It reached a point where I felt like I was being taken for granted, and there were a few times where I shed a few tears with my parents because I felt like I wasn't understood or receiving any sort of support. If anything, I was being criticized and judged for not accommodating others schedules. So, I'm supposed to sacrifice my job and well-being because it's a convenient time for someone else? No way. I think certain family members were just accustomed to me always being there and making myself available. Gosh forbid I had a life to live and bills to pay. Fortunately, this doesn't happen as much anymore, but I still had to say my piece because it's really bothered me for years.

 

My dad understood, but we agreed that it would be easier for us to discuss my current career and any changes I'm looking to make when they come for a visit today.

 

I've always been close with both of my parents, but my dad and I have always had a certain bond. It could be because, in certain ways, we're very much alike, and I also think it's because I'm the youngest and only daughter, too. I dunno...there’s something about a father/daughter bond.

[Batya33]

Hey Batya,

 

I think you're missing the point I made in my response to Jibralta's post.

 

My point was, when referring to R's behavior, even if we had NOT been texting for months, and had only chatted for a few days, I still would have found his behavior unusual. My guess is, most women would have! Something was off.

 

Was I disappointed with his attitude? Of course I was, because I had a different impression of him based on our text exchange over 9 months. If I had only chatted with R briefly, like the guy I mentioned in my previous post who was also irritable, I would have just thought we weren't a match upon meeting, walked away, and never looked back.

 

That said, these are two separate issues. Whether R and I chatted for one day or nine months, his behavior was still unusual.

 

In terms of my post referring to meeting a "nice" guy. I think you're focusing too much on the specific words that I used. I was only venting about the fact that I don't meet many men who I'm truly interested in, and I would love to meet someone where I feel chemistry/a connection. I like sweet types, but with a backbone. I could never be with a doormat.

 

Even "D" who I mentioned more recently in this thread was someone I met about 8 years ago - so almost a decade ago!

 

Yes, so the common denominator is you. You choose to let emotions get the best of you (something I need to work on daily and take preventative measures concerning so I get it) - so because you make that choice my sense is it impacts how open you are to being interested in people -perhaps you're being a bit self-absorbed/self-conscious so you're listening to your internal tapes in your head rather than actually experiencing people, listening to people. Not listening to figure out how to respond, not listening and wondering what they think of you.

 

What kinds of things do you do to expose yourself to people? When you are ready to date-if you are -I suggest volunteering backstage at a community theater- several of my friends met people and future spouses that way. I did a ton of activities including volunteer activities when I was husband hunting. With really good results. But again please don't think I'm suggesting you date now. I am not.

[milly007]

So I met up with the fam today, and filled them in on what’s been happening.

 

I even told my dad about R, and when I told him about some of the things that transpired during the meet, my dad says, “You should have gotten up and walked away. Usually your initial impression or feelings about someone is accurate. Listen to your gut. I don’t think you should have reached out to him after you met, but I’m glad you two aren’t going out again”.

 

When my dad was in his 20’s, his father passed away at a very young age due to health complications. My grandfather and grandmother were very much in love. They were both very loving, sweet, down-to-earth people. After years of my grandmother being single, she eventually remarried someone who wasn’t well liked by our family. He had quite the mean streak and a bad temper, and did not treat my grandmother well. I guess one night my grandma was with him in a car, and as she was driving, she missed the off ramp. At this point, he started yelling at her for missing the exit. She was shocked! And she hadn’t ever seen this side of him before. I guess his true colours shone through AFTER they got married. My uncle even offered to help my grandmother get a top notch lawyer and pay for her divorce. But my grandmother refused. In her mind, she was going to stick through thick and thin with him.

 

I actually forgot about this until my dad reminded me tonight. Made me think...

 

I miss her. She passed away when I was little and I wish I had a chance to spend more time with her. She was quite the painter and I would have loved to learn from her.

[Batya33]

What a story! My father in law also lost his father at a young age, and my father was only in his 30s when he lost his father.

 

You know, I think human beings are known to yell at people they love - certainly shouldn't happen on a regular basis and certainly shouldn't involve trying to degrade the person and to me what also shouldn't happen is a person being too nice and holding back angry or frustrated feelings because that person is more likely to explode or have health complications like high blood pressure, ulcers, etc. I prefer people who are kind, thoughtful and also straight up - who express when they are feeling frustrated -in a respectful way - so that you get to know the real person and if that person "loses it" and yells then it's not really such a shock because you've seen a lot of sides of the person over the years. Certainly if her second husband lost his temper regularly whether verbally or heaven forbid physically that's not ok at all. But in a situation like you described I could see someone yelling out in frustration if it involved safety - if it was just that she missed the exit and caused inconvenience then yes yelling would seem like a big overreaction. And, there are those who don't yell but are sarcastic, cold, give the silent treatment, etc. That can feel even worse because it's so indirect/passive aggressive.

 

I'm sorry your grandfather died so young -so unfair! Everyone takes some sort of risk in making a serious commitment to another person. There can be a true colors situation, or the person can become disabled physically or mentally, or have a life crisis that has a bad impact, etc. So that's why a lot of people recommend getting to know someone over a period of time, making the decision with head and heart, getting to know the person's family and/or friends, community - all of that can give valuable information. I had surprises after marriage. Those surprises were largely about myself. About taking a good hard look at what my triggers were, how I reacted to things, how I sweated the small stuff, what I needed in terms of more humility, huge changes based on becoming a mother. I can't say I was surprised about anything new I've learned about my husband over the years even though we really never lived together. Certainly I didn't know exactly how he'd be with our child but I imagined it. He had so little experience with children while I had a lot! I imagined it based on what I knew of him, his character, how he treated people. I'm not surprised that he's a great, albeit flawed/imperfect parent (and luckily we have different flaws and imperfections so our son gets a variety of those parenting fails LOL).

 

It's always a risk. People stay with people for all sorts of reasons, good, bad, ugly, soul-inspiring. So other peoples' stories are helpful but only to a point -even from your own family.

[milly007]

What a story! My father in law also lost his father at a young age, and my father was only in his 30s when he lost his father.

 

You know, I think human beings are known to yell at people they love - certainly shouldn't happen on a regular basis and certainly shouldn't involve trying to degrade the person and to me what also shouldn't happen is a person being too nice and holding back angry or frustrated feelings because that person is more likely to explode or have health complications like high blood pressure, ulcers, etc. I prefer people who are kind, thoughtful and also straight up - who express when they are feeling frustrated -in a respectful way - so that you get to know the real person and if that person "loses it" and yells then it's not really such a shock because you've seen a lot of sides of the person over the years. Certainly if her second husband lost his temper regularly whether verbally or heaven forbid physically that's not ok at all. But in a situation like you described I could see someone yelling out in frustration if it involved safety - if it was just that she missed the exit and caused inconvenience then yes yelling would seem like a big overreaction. And, there are those who don't yell but are sarcastic, cold, give the silent treatment, etc. That can feel even worse because it's so indirect/passive aggressive.

 

I'm sorry your grandfather died so young -so unfair! Everyone takes some sort of risk in making a serious commitment to another person. There can be a true colors situation, or the person can become disabled physically or mentally, or have a life crisis that has a bad impact, etc. So that's why a lot of people recommend getting to know someone over a period of time, making the decision with head and heart, getting to know the person's family and/or friends, community - all of that can give valuable information. I had surprises after marriage. Those surprises were largely about myself. About taking a good hard look at what my triggers were, how I reacted to things, how I sweated the small stuff, what I needed in terms of more humility, huge changes based on becoming a mother. I can't say I was surprised about anything new I've learned about my husband over the years even though we really never lived together. Certainly I didn't know exactly how he'd be with our child but I imagined it. He had so little experience with children while I had a lot! I imagined it based on what I knew of him, his character, how he treated people. I'm not surprised that he's a great, albeit flawed/imperfect parent (and luckily we have different flaws and imperfections so our son gets a variety of those parenting fails LOL).

 

It's always a risk. People stay with people for all sorts of reasons, good, bad, ugly, soul-inspiring. So other peoples' stories are helpful but only to a point -even from your own family.

 

Yeah, that was the issue. He was disrespectful and mean to my grandmother more often than not, which is why my family was offering to help her with a divorce if she wanted to take that route. He was seemingly quiet and shy prior to them getting married, but after the fact, he then revealed his true personality (i.e. - short-tempered, impatient, moody, disrespectful, generally unhappy [unless everything was going his way], and man...could he be snippy, etc., etc.).

 

As for her missing the off-ramp, he was only upset because it was an inconvenience and had nothing to do with safety. He was just an impatient guy, unfortunately.

 

I think my grandmother stayed in the marriage because she was lonely. Actually, this is how she ended up marrying him in the first place. She wanted a long-term partner, and as I said, he changed his ways AFTER they got married. Prior to them getting married he was an angel. When my parents met him for the first time (which was of course, prior to my grandma getting married), they thought he was shy and introverted. The off-ramp story is when she first began to see changes in his personality (again, this was post-marriage).

 

So yeah, we aren't talking about someone here that had their general human foibles. My grandmother had to deal with someone who had much deeper seated issues - whatever they were. She was a sweetheart and didn't deserve this treatment.

 

And I agree with you B., in that I prefer people who are straightforward and respectful, and fair, yet firm. When it came to R though, he can call it whatever he wants, but he was straight up rude (not upfront and respectful). I gave him the benefit of the doubt though and asked to see if he was interested in a second meet, since I thought maybe his nerves got the best of him. I have a feeling that his actions during our first meet ARE how he treats people in general, or maybe he just thought he could treat me in this disrespectful way because I fell into the trap of texting with him for 9 months. Who knows. It doesn't matter anyway. R is old news now. Lol. Let me just say for the record that if I could go back in time, I would NOT have reached out to him after the date. The more time passes since the meet, the more clarity I have. I should have let it go. Oh well. Like I said, R's old news..

 

At the end of the day, none of us are perfect and we all have our foibles. But I'll be dam*ed if I get stuck with a d-bag! :)

 

We've all lost our cool at some point, and no doubt have taken it out on other people (even when we were trying our best not to), but when I'm meeting someone for the first time, and they can't keep it together for a few hours without getting their undies in a knot (for no rhyme or reason), the thought of how they would conduct themselves in a long-term exclusive relationship scares me - especially since we're all on our BEST behavior when we first meet someone.

 

That being said, yes, it’s definitely a good idea for everyone to take their time and really get to know someone before committing.

[Batya33]

I love how you evaluate someone's character and personality during a first meet (I used to focus also on how he treated the waitstaff - tells a lot!)

 

I am sorry your grandmother went through this. Since you are nice about putting up with my silly stories here is one. I was practicing driving with my husband in the car and nervous (I don't drive but I got my license 3 years ago at age 49!) -anyway there is traffic and I didn't make a mistake but it was stressful. I said something offhand, normal which unfortunately reminded him of some ridiclulously silly song that he chose to start singing just then when I was stressed- and he added that his "Aunt __" used to sing it (I really found her incredibly irritating -she passed away some years ago). So I yelled as in how could you try to distract me by singing and mentioning Aunt __???" It was partly funny but yes I lost it LOL. He was like a deer in headlights "but....... I was just trying to relax you by singing!" (He also found his Aunt irritating so that was ok).

 

So yes he now knows my triggers when driving. No singing/references to irritating relatives.

[milly007]

You and your husband in the car, Batya - lol. Again, this sounds like something from a tv show. This is a perfect example of something we have all done at some point in our lives.

 

I'm by no means perfect. I try to be mindful before I react when I'm irritated, but sometimes my mouth opens before my brain processes what I should or shouldn't be saying. We can't be on our best behavior all of the time. But even in these moments of irritability, I don't think I'm a jerk. I try and take the high road, regardless. Further to that, I'm not one to treat someone whom I've just met with disrespect. If I said or did something to p*** someone off, that's one thing, and I deserve what's coming. But don't cr*p on me if you're having a bad day. If you're having a bad day, tell me, I'll understand. But don't bottle it up and take it out on me for no good reason.

 

Yeah, I think assessing character and personality during a first meet is completely natural and expected. R was great with the wait staff and polite. He even waived to the staff at the bar and said "thanks" as we got up to leave, which I liked. Like I said, his behavior was confusing due to some good and bad moments.

 

I have to say, I find human behavior fascinating, and in terms of this case with R, I wonder if people like him know they are being rude and don't care, or if they really are clueless.

 

If people like him are clueless, it makes me wonder about my own behavior, and whether I'm saying or doing something in particular that I’m unaware of which could be turning people off.

 

Therefore, sometimes I think I would love to get feedback from someone I've been out with regarding my behavior on a meet/date, but more so from someone where I left feeling confused (as in the case with R), or from someone I know I'm truly interested in getting to know.

 

If I'm being honest with myself, I think I have to work on my nervousness/staying more relaxed, better eye contact, and being more consistently engaging (from beginning to end). There were moments where I feel like I threw in the towel with R and made no effort at all, but I think I just felt like maybe there was nothing left to save. This isn't right though. I have to hold my self accountable and improve on this. Seriously, I really do.

 

Yeah he was rude and disrespectful at times, but I have no doubt that I dropped the ball at some points during the night as well (and trust me, I'm not saying this justifies his rudeness, because it doesn't). I just don't want to be a repeat offender.

[Batya33]

I mean, sure, we all have our off days. One would hope that if you're having an off day and on a first date that either you'd either sort of be vulnerable and explain it to the person or I guess reschedule/excuse yourself early. So the fact that he couldn't control that/let it all hang out -that is concerning to me. Also the hot/cold/moodiness - really strange.

 

I remember on one first meet I thought he was very handsome and very extroverted. I probably was kind of staring . Anyway around a half hour in he says "do you know you are very forward?" Honestly it threw me off -I was absolutely not being forward in any sexual way (words or actions) and sure I've been described as spunky/direct but what came to me was that he was used to women being kind of shy/submissive -speculation on my part I guess but you know when someone describes you in a way that you've never heard before? No, he did not ask me out again . Another example -to show how hard these first impressions are. A guy called me through an online site. Nice convo. He owned an art/antiques shop I knew of. He said he'd call me again to set up a date. So he did -while I was at work - and on that day I was busy and lots of people around so I tried to keep my voice down and more professional (yes, i had my own office, no, I didn't have a chance to close the door). On the phone he said "you sound different' so I explained I was at work, etc. Well that wasn't good enough for him -he again expressed that I sounded formal, etc. and ended the call. We never met. And I'm glad. Because those are examples of a person being rigid/inflexible - certainly he could have said that he'd like to call me later or -better yet -just make the plan for the date right then and get me off the phone. Certainly I could have declined the call but I figured why do that if I actually can talk long enough to schedule a date?

 

In your case I wouldn't second guess- he was rude. Rude and jerky cross the line. To that extent. You will know when it's a momentary lapse based on nervousness, or the guy is awkward but you decide to give him another chance - in short if the intentions seem honorable then Mr. Chatty or Mr. Ultra Shy or he fumbles with the check even though he means to pay, etc - then if you're otherwise good with it then you give it another chance. Does that make sense to you? As far as you making eye contact etc I suggest 4-7-8 breathing before the date -the Weil method -google it -plus come up with an internal mantra you tell yourself as you're approaching the table or where you're going to meet. Mine was "you are beautiful and glamorous and going to a tea party". Um, no I didn't really believe that but that mantra relaxed me and also gave me momentary confidence. Find one that works for you.

[Jibralta]

I really liked our chats, and he said the same thing, many times. The odd part? Our conversation when we met wasn't the same. It lacked depth and rapport; that's until we stepped outside and were saying goodbye. I've said this a few times, but our conversation as we were leaving the bar was the best part of the night.

 

I can definitely relate to wanting to meet someone after feeling a connection like that, even if it was only over text. But consider what a poor form of communication texting is.

 

It's easy to misread meaning and intent with text messages.

 

Similarly, it's easy to bullsht someone because there's no chance that body language or voice modulation will contradict what you are saying.

 

There's so much more information available through to in-person communication.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling blue over the whole thing, and I'm not blaming you for what happened.

 

Might it have gone differently if you hadn't invested so much in text-affections? Probably. But we live and we learn.

[milly007]

I can definitely relate to wanting to meet someone after feeling a connection like that, even if it was only over text. But consider what a poor form of communication texting is.

 

It's easy to misread meaning and intent with text messages.

 

Similarly, it's easy to bullsht someone because there's no chance that body language or voice modulation will contradict what you are saying.

 

There's so much more information available through to in-person communication.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling blue over the whole thing, and I'm not blaming you for what happened.

 

Might it have gone differently if you hadn't invested so much in text-affections? Probably. But we live and we learn.

 

It really is a poor form of communication. Although I knew that what we were doing was wrong, I went along with it anyway, because I enjoyed "talking" to him and wanted to try something new. After all, because I don't meet many men I'm interested in, I didn't think it could hurt to try something different, and I thought throwing away the rule book might work in my favor. Clearly I was wrong. But, at least I gave it a shot. As you said, J., live and learn. I'll never do this again.

[milly007]

Still kinda reeling after what happened with R., but I'm thinking about him less and what happened as the days pass.

 

Whenever he does cross my mind, I find myself trying to understand what happened (which I will never understand) and how someone can seem so significantly different in person than the person I perceived him to be (it was like dealing with two completely different people). As someone who prides themselves on having good judgment, I really let myself down in this situation, but I learned.

 

One thought that also occurred to me with R is that I think he liked the chase. For instance, when we finally met in person, and I suggested that we leave the bar earlier, he looked at me and said, "Should we?", and he then decided that he was going to try and finish the food that he ordered (i.e. "You know, I think I might try and eat this salad that I ordered, or do you want it?"). He didn't even end up touching his salad, but seemed nervous and more talkative. Then, as we were leaving the bar, and he offered to walk me home, I thanked him and explained I'd be fine walking home by myself, he again looked nervous, became more talkative and then seemed to want to prolong our goodbye. I just thought we'd say "thanks for coming out and nice meeting ya" and then part ways (which is why I gave him a quick hug and thanked him for coming out as soon as we set foot outside of the bar). He then asked what happened to us years ago when we first connected, which I honestly thought was a sweet question. I dunno, I think R liked a good chase, and I’m too tired to run. Lol. I did that in my teens/20’s, and I’m exhausted.

 

Anyway, as already mentioned, I could analyze this until I'm blue in the face (which I kind of am, at this point), but I'm never going to understand his mindset, his thoughts, and how things went from 100 to 0 in a matter of hours. But, and this is a BIG, BIG, "BUT"...If I had to guess, I'm thinking my post-meeting texts chased him away. I should have left him alone and accepted that things did not go as planned and moved on.

 

Or, all of this texts prior to meeting up were a load of cr*p, which I'd like to believe is NOT the case.

 

Honestly, guys, I wish I knew a mind reader (but then again, I know we've all felt this way at some point in our lives).

 

The thing is, normally I can look back on a situation and understand why it didn't work out with someone. This scenario is so different...

 

I guess it's just a simple explanation of us not being compatible, and that maybe after our meet, despite him seeming interested, he had time to assess what happened and decided that we just aren't a match.

 

A friend thinks that my particular text to him which said, in part, "Maybe I just had different expectations heading into the night (after 9 months of communication)", and "I'd be willing to give it one last/go meet", could only be interpreted by him as me being indifferent, on the fence, and not enthusiastic about meeting up again. In fact, it could be interpreted as being kinda 'meh' about the whole thing. Really, who knows....

 

On a different note, I'm still leaning into this career bit and attempting to figure out next steps. I'm tempted to go back online, tbh, but not just to create a distraction. I really want to get married and have kids one day, but being that I'm in my 30's, time is not on my side. So do I stay offline, and only focus on myself, or do I keep OLD open as an option, provided I keep both feet on the ground and make myself the priority for now.

 

Friends and family believe that I can do both - work on myself and do OLD, and that with the right guy, he'll understand and be supportive.

 

R knew all about my career and frustrations (nothing too detailed, but that I'm on the lookout for something new) and was seemingly supportive and kind, at least via text message. He even said something along the lines of, "I believe everything is going to work out in your favor because you deserve it. You just have to keep at it and stay positive"). In person, he seemed a bit more judge-y (the body language, facial expressions, tone, etc. - seriously, it was so weird!). In fairness, again, maybe it was nerves or his insecurities rearing their ugly head, who knows. We all manage our nerves and insecurities in different ways. Maybe he masks his nervousness with defensiveness or being overly guarded. Man, I'd love to know. Like I said, I find human behavior so interesting!

 

Well, I'm predicting another interesting week ahead of trying to figure this all out. Something tells me I'll never have it all figured out, though.

 

Leaning into these feelings of discomfort is not easy, because it's so gosh darn uncomfortable. R was such a fantastic distraction through all of this, but not in good way (my impression of him wasn't real. It strictly was a fantasy, I think). I realize I have to face this head-on if I want to make any real changes in my life right now, and although I want to do this strictly on my own, like I said, I really want to meet someone great too and time is NOT on my side.

[milly007]

And fwiw, I do still have that account up (which I signed for following my meet with R), but there’s no one there I’m even mildly interested in, and I’d be shocked if anything changes in the near future.

 

In terms of the free sites/apps, I took a peek at those about a week or two ago, and again, I just found profiles of people I’m not interested in, or men I remember seeing online about 7 or 8 years ago, when I first connected with R.

 

So I’m thinking OLD might not be as distracting as some might expect...

 

I don’t know if this is a good or bad thing. *face-palm*

[milly007]

So, I haven't done much dating lately. I guess you could say I've been a fairly passive participant in the online dating world, but for various reasons.

 

I've been spending my time exploring other career possibilities, and a loved one recently had surgery, so I stayed with them for a while to help out around their homefront.

 

I think I may have gone out with two guys over the last few months - one who was a very different from my typical type, and another just this past Thursday.

 

The man I met on Thursday messaged me online about a week or two ago. He had a nice profile, cute pics, and we seemed to have a fair amount in common. After exchanging a few messages, he asked to meet up.

 

So when I got back into town, we scheduled something for this past Thursday. It was an okay meeting. He was attractive, but I didn't see a second meet-up in our future. He seemed to be considerate and complimentary, telling me that I looked pretty & that he couldn't believe I was single.

 

So throughout the day yesterday, I noticed that he was looking at my profile (to a point where I was thinking, "he sure seems to be checking out the profile a lot"). And fwiw - I wasn't looking at his.

 

And then when I woke-up this morning to check messages, I noticed that he had blocked me on the OLD site. Why? I have no idea. Anyway, I'm wondering if the world has gone mad.

 

I'm beginning to think that finding a secure man these days is like hoping to discover Big Foot (no offence to all you secure gents out there - I know some exist).

 

I also noticed a lawyer (who I initially met at a social function before we ran into each other online), and who messaged me via the same OLD site, also blocked me because (I'm assuming it's because) I hadn't responded to his message within a few days.

 

Oy vey...

[milly007]

I mean, is blocking someone who doesn’t show signs of interest a new thing? To protect the ego? Clearly they’re trying to get a point across, in a passive-aggressive way, mind you.

 

I’d be interested in understanding the mindset behind this. We weren’t messaging each other. Nothing happened. So why block...

 

In previous experiences, whether there was interest or not, me, & the person I met, would just go on about our business, and respectfully co-exist online. Lol.