Is it rude? Break it off?

[Zimetra]

You misunderstood me. Yes, I said a girl who doesn't pay her own bill deprives herself of her own independence. And I still mean that.

 

AND I said being treated like a female does NOT mean a man has to dance attendance on me or pay my bills.

 

You seem to have fun twisting my words - go ahead. But

 

Just know if you chose to strive for equality, you'll be taken even less seriously cause whether you gets treated equally is not to strive for it directly by saying you need equality, but that people needs to observe and gain respect from you in your overall composture.

 

I think you've been around the wrong kind of women, that's why you got a wrong idea of this whole thing. Today's women I'm talking about, including myself, are taking our whole share of responsibility, we do not shirk from duty, and we certainly don't act like we want the rights but refuse the responsibility.

 

There are women who do the latter - sorry for you if you've dealt with that kind so far only.

[Zimetra]

Besides, i think female get too hung up on personal relationship, readily gets jealous, talk behind each other, as well as big vengence sign on their forehead, and emotional. They are not good communicators with male species either. How can we expect to take you seriously?

 

Please stop generalizing. I know just as many men as women who have these bad traits, and many women I know are good communicators. Better than men. Making an undifferentiated statement like this disqualifies you and exposes a frustrated guy who probably has been treated bad by a woman of the kind you described. Sorry.

[Spirits Away]

It's just meaningless. We just have totally different experience.

 

I would love to erase my mind and put a better image of female. It's not healthy to think like that. I truly, do want to. You can be right that I've been around with the wrong type of woman. I was just thinking back of the past encounter with ladies whom i did not have association with. It's possible that they're not that way. Here i am on my computer nodding my head going "possible, possible..."

 

So lets just leave it at that and don't debate anymore.

[butterflywings]

One word: CHIVALRY.

 

YOU SHOULD RESPECT HER MORE FOR NOT ALLOWING YOU TO HAVE HER PAY HER WAY. MANY (MOST) OF US HAVE TRADITIONAL VALUES IN WHICH THE MAN PAYS. ESPECIALLY when you are in the beginning stages of dating!!

 

Don't assume that because she didn't pay her way on your SECOND DATE (!!) that she wouldn't eventually kick in a little over time when you are in a committed relationship. Regardles...

 

From a chick's perspective: YOU were rude!!!!! And your date probably stressed concern to her best girlfriend(s) about the incident (that is, if she wasn't so turned off she wrote you off & never looked back)...

 

That sort of behavior leads your date to think not only that you are cheap and selfish and lacking in the area of chivarly (i.e., manliness), but that you don't value her or think she's worth a bowl of pasta and diet coke. You pull that one again & trust me, my friend -- most other girls wouldnt give you the time of day. It's a RESPECT thing; not a material thing. At least for the majority of us.

 

Any guy who expects me to pay --- ON A SECOND DATE ESPECIALLY---- is a HUGE TURNOFF!!!! Trust me - I don't care how much women are into women's lib/rights (as I am believe it or not) ---- 99% of all American women are COMPLETELY TURNED OFF by a guy who does not pay her way.

 

I understand it's hard for guys to date when they have little cash. I feel for ya big time. What i would suggest is that you try more subtle ways to explain your financial situation and hopefully a girl who cares enough about you and has a heart, will INSIST on paying her way a little more. But you should still fight her on it - & SHOW that you are doing your best and WANT to pay...

 

ALso you can take her to more reasonably priced places, even pull out coupons if you need to... IF you are with a QUALITY girl who cares for you, she will be fine with however you do it. Again., it's the principle that counts. She will RESPECT you so much more if you do your best to pay.

 

just a side note - i suspect youre really not into this girl to begin with. i have this feeling that if you were really into her - you would WANT to pay for her no matter what. ??? just a guess, i don't know. I just have a hard time believing that guys today really just dont want to pay for the women in their lives.

[PocoDiablo]

Bravo ^^^^

[Caterina]

If I was on a date with you, and it was the second date, and you had asked me, I would have been very annoyed that you asked me to pay half. You were the one who asked, you are the one who pays. End of story.

 

Also, if you don't have a lot of money, as ComputerGuy brought up, make sure you bring her to places that are not charged...bike riding, mountain climbing, hiking, some coffee is pretty cheap...but don't take her to a restraunt and ask her to pay...she might be in a poor financial position herself, and its very rude.

[hockeyboy]

i personally think i should pay (dont even know why) for the dates at first. after some time...i dont like to have to pay for EVERYTHING...mostly because i simply cannot...being a young professional. once a relationship becomes serious...at least in my experience...money never became an issue...someone would pay for this or that and we never really kept tabs, but it probably came out equal in the long run.

 

however..i dont like this attitude of guys should not be allowed to date if they cant pay for everything. i hardly find that fair.

[Belle]

Odd already said it. When he really digs a girl he pays. Women aren't stupid. We know that. If you don't pay early on, we're out because it shows your interest or disinterest level. Women that respect themselves have been taught not to go with the guy who isn't serious or crazy about us. Why would we date someone looking for a hookup unless that's our plan too?

 

Justa may have been a little demonstrative in her explanations but fundamentally she's right.

 

Sorry guys. If you ever wonder why a girl may not call back it's not because we wanted a meal ticket. It's because you're a tightwad looking for free love hippy stuff and we're not into it. And if you're that stingy with money how generous will you be in love?

 

Just my two cents.

 

Belle

[DN]

Sorry guys. If you ever wonder why a girl may not call back it's not because we wanted a meal ticket. It's because you're a tightwad looking for free love hippy stuff and we're not into it. And if you're that stingy with money how generous will you be in love?

 

 

Sorry, girls, but that's trying to have it both ways. You can't call a guy cheap because he expects equal treatment from you and not expect that he will think you are after a free meal ticket. You are either equal or you are not.

 

And the idea that a man not generous with money is manipulative and is also a double edged sword. If you are too cheap to contribute equally financially in a relationship does that mean you will not contribute equally emotionally? If a man 'being stingy' means he is ungenerous in love why does that not apply equally to women?

 

I notice a constant theme in these threads - it's always ok to expect a man to pay and a woman to keep her money in her purse. Equality cuts both ways.

[ocrob]

This is so funny to me. There are so many issues in this post. I have many female friends and they expect the guy to pay. They will even to offer paying half and if the guy lets them, he is done. I personally like to pay at least at the beginning. My ex told me that is what she liked about me, I would not let her pay. When she and I were trying to be friends, she would tell me how much it bothered her when guys would let her pay half or sometimes even pay. I personally pay because I just like to. Now, for the next issue. Why should a guy pay? Unfortunately, times have changed so much, but the expectations of men have not. I know women might get offended, but her is a reality. Women now live in a fairly equal society. If they live in California, they get half in a divorce. Women mostly work now and make very good money ( maybe not as much as men in an unfair environment), but still are completely independent and can do just as well as men. I think it is interesting that women can be just as competitive in the work place, make good money, but men are supposed to pay and men have everything to lose financially in a divorce. I am not trying to be a shovenist pig, but it is just interesting. My brother's gf is so into her money that I think this is why she will not marry him. She is afraid of giving any of it up. What about the men who marry for love and then get taken for half? I went on a date the other day. The first bill came and I paid and she did not say thank you. This bothered me, but the next restaurant witht he bigger bill, she offered to pay. I declined and she offered to pay half. I declined, but really appreciated her offer. I have no idea where I am going with this. I guess I should say, we should pay, but it is just strange dealing with these double standards. Women can date so much more because they can afford to. : ) Ok ladies, feel free to tell me I am wrong, but please don't take this as being nasty. Just a guy's point of view. I realize society is sexist, but if we are going to be equal, then the guy should not have to bare all of the financial reponsiblity.

[DN]

I guess I should say, we should pay

 

And your reasoning for this is what? This is not an attack but I see this statement so often and I have never seen a convincing rationalisation for it that isn't twenty years out of date or "because that's just the way it is".

[PocoDiablo]

Sorry guys. If you ever wonder why a girl may not call back it's not because we wanted a meal ticket. It's because you're a tightwad looking for free love hippy stuff and we're not into it. And if you're that stingy with money how generous will you be in love?

I purposely will take dates to some place inexpensive to see if she and I get along. Any woman who complains is - in my mind - a gold digger. I am GLAD to see a response like this, because this is the type of woman I won't date. I want a woman who is into ME, not my wallet.

 

At a certain point in my life I made over six figures and women came out of the woodwork to "date" me. It turns out they were just looking for money. I was looking for love. It's easy to screen out the materialistic women, and I highly recommend it. Any woman who uses insults like "tightwad" deserve to be dumped. It's insulting and rude. It speaks nothing about how the relationship would mature.

 

If a woman is this concerned about money from the beginning, imagine how things are going to be if you lose your job or have some other financial difficulty. She'd probably break up with you. That's love?

 

No, that's my ex-wife.

[Venturer]

I agree with the guy above. Any woman who complains or even takes issue with money early on is a gold digger.

 

And it's easy for me to steer clear of them because I'm just a broke graduate student these days. ;-)

 

Belle, I also can see the obvious and blatant hypocrisy in women wanting "equal" treatment, yet they expect the guy to pay her way... its mind-boggling to me. I would pay sometimes, and sometimes she'll pay, and IF she's a good girl with a good head on her shoulders, it's no big deal when she doesn't consider money to be an issue.

[Venturer]

And I must add... whether I pay the bill or half of it has absolutely NOTHING to do with my interest in the girl. Because I keep money and personal feelings separate, as anyone should do.

[Markers]

I haven't read what others have said, but it is RIDICULOUS of her to leave her money home. I mean, what F? Usually the one who eats/drinks/whatever is responsible for his/her part of the bill, and if the guy wants to pay, then he pays. If the guy finds out the girl is an idiot, he won't pay 'cos he hopes not to ever see the girl again. I think it was very self centered to imagine that no matter what the guy likes you enough to pay. There's no rule that guy has to pay. There's no law, you could have told her that "I'm not gonna pay your part" and she would have had to figure out how to pay her share and you could have walked out. I don't have a problem paying, I always pay, but I'd prefer if the girl didn't outright expect it to the point of simple arrogance. Paying to gain someone's affection is just wrong, sounds like paying for company to me. Also it is a priviledge to be on a date with me, as it is a priviledge to me to be on a date with someone. How come it's automatically me who has to "thank" for the date by paying? Like I said, I don't have a problem with paying, but I sometimes do have a problem with the moral of why I'm always expected to pay. For me, if I have to be too picky about the money in the beginning, something's wrong. Either she's after free rides meaning she's done, (after all I want someone who likes me and not my wallet), OR I don't like her enough to pay (means: she's done).The situation I want to have is: we're into eachother so much that we don't worry about money because we're too busy doing something together. And I pay because someone has to do it and we're like "let's just throw money to that guy right now and continue.." and I figure that "hey, why not?" With a girl you like, don't risk it, she might want you to pay. But make sure she knows you're not the guy who gives her free rides.

[Belle]

I agree with the guy above. Any woman who complains or even takes issue with money early on is a gold digger.

 

Belle, I also can see the obvious and blatant hypocrisy in women wanting "equal" treatment, yet they expect the guy to pay her way... its mind-boggling to me.

 

Um, I like your blanket statement that clearly negates anything the women and some of the men have already stated. It's not about the money. It's about how much a guy likes us. I can go with my friends to a restaurant and pay every day of the week. I'm not looking for a serious romantic relationship with these people.

 

As for your second statement, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about equal treatment. I don't think it's unequal treatment for men to act like men once in a while. I don't mind being treated like a lady. I think most women actually prefer it.

 

And to clear it up for some of you that may be obtuse, I paid my share the last 3 dates I've been out on. The last guy was because I wasn't sure I was interested and it was impromptu. Not real dates. I didn't expect him to pay. But it also warned me of things to come since he let me. I haven't seen either of them again.

 

Venture, If you are going to share you opinions on the board, try not flaming people for things they haven't said.

 

and poco, I'm a bit disappointed in your statement about tightwad. I respected your opinions and thought you were a bit above teh reactionary insulting behavior. My bad.

 

And finally, about the gold digging thing. More insulting bologna to smear the women that don't go along with what you say. I've dated several very wealthy men. The last guy I dated that it didn't work out was somewhat rich. If I had wanted to date a man for money, I'd be with one of them. I don't need a sugar daddy. I want a man that I'm compatible with. If that means the guy has limited resources and takes me on cheap dates, so be it. But he's still going to have to pay for the bus pass or take me on his scooter.

 

Belle

[DN]

I don't think it's unequal treatment for men to act like men once in a while. I don't mind being treated like a lady. I think most women actually prefer it.

 

All very nice - except it still ends up that the way for a man to be a man is to pay for a woman's tab and the way for a woman to be a lady is for her to graciously let him. I'm not surprised 'most women' prefer it, I imagine their savings account managers are ecstatic, although I doubt that most women actually do.

 

Frankly, I think that the 'man being a man' thing is manipulative and is part of the smörgåsbord approach to equality that some women still have. It's certainly convenient and definitely saves them some money but the logic of it is starting to wear thin.

[Venturer]

Belle, you say: It's not about the money. It's about how much a guy likes us.

 

For the sake of a constructive discussion, would you please explain something to me. Has it occurred to you that whether a guy pays the entire tab or lets you pay your half has absolutely NOTHING to do with how he FEELS about you? That's how it is with me. So maybe you are writing off good guys too prematurely just because he let you pay your half? Do you think that might be possible?

 

Where did you get the idea in your head (and maybe other women's as well) that whether a guy pays the entire tab or not is a reflection of how he feels about you and his interest in you?

 

Also, let's say you meet a guy who pays the entire tab every time you go on a date with him. At what point do you say to yourself, "okay, he proved that he likes me by paying the full tab everytime, so I'll pay my half from now on" and then when he gets the tab, you pull out your purse and put down the cash or you insist on paying this time. The guy might protest, but how do you know you won't write him off because he let you pay this time?

 

I'm trying to make sense of this "who pays" issue... because it is NOT a big issue to ME, but apparently it is an important issue to women who think as you do.

[Markers]

If the guy finds out the girl is an idiot, he won't pay 'cos he hopes not to ever see the girl again. I think it was very self centered to imagine that no matter what the guy likes you enough to pay. OR I don't like her enough to pay (means: she's done).

because I can't edit my post, I'm gonna clear this up a bit, I did not mean that only if I like you enough, I pay. I pay even if the date is not good, and only in some very extreme cases I might even consider refusing to pay for her part, and one thing that sometimes makes me consider that is an extremely incompatible personality and blind trust that "this is going to be another free ride". Don't use the paying-thing as a measurement of how much a guy likes you, because it might be inaccurate (due to number of things). You should have other ways of defining how much the guy likes of you. If you don't have, I strongly suggest you start practicing your social skills.

[Belle]

If you don't have, I strongly suggest you start practicing your social skills.

 

Please. Don't worry about my social skills. I worry about your ability to argue logically.

[Markers]

Please. Don't worry about my social skills. I worry about your ability to argue logically.

Do you really think I doubted your social skills? I pointed out that your argument is not valid - you're testing guys: "it's not about the money. It's about how much a guy likes us". If that's the only reason to make the guy pay, then you could as well pay your part of the bill and figure his interest level some other way. That's what guys have to do anyway, so you could try it too. And it's so funny how you can flame others about their debating skills etc. while your post outright showed your inability to bring in any arguments at all - you just try to insult. Just like what you said to PocoDiablo: "I respected your opinions and thought you were a bit above teh reactionary insulting behavior. My bad." yeah, you think you can talk about proper, logical, and non-insulting debating?

[PocoDiablo]

Well people are sure getting bent out of shape over this whole money issue which I think is pretty funny. Remember the old saying about the root of all evil? Well, here's how I look at it:

 

The lack of money is the root of all evil.

 

Now in response to my gold-digger statment I will stand behind that. I've dated enough women who asked me what kind of car I drove on a date to recognize when someone is not interested in me but what I have to give them. And THIS is a very important point:

 

When you go on a date with someone, nothing matters so much as to determine their interest level in you and that they are a caring, giving, and flexible person.

 

If you ask me what kind of car I drive... that's not asking anything about me as a person. If you refuse to pay ... that's saying a lot about who you are. If you make your date pay your way every time ... that says a lot, too.

 

But now get this - let's say a guy and a girl go on a date. Let's pretend that the girl does not like the guy. Do you think it is possible that she may pay so she does not (1) feel obligated and (2) to let the guy know she is not interested? Now what if she was brought up to have manners, and offers to pay not once, but twice? Do you still pay?

 

In my opinion you pay the way for any woman you take on a date. If you are broke, go someplace cheap. Quite frankly I WANT to go someplace cheap anyway, because a gold digger most likely will refuse the date outright. If she does go, then you know she is going not because of financial reasons but to be with YOU.

 

This issue is not so much about money, at least that is not the way I look at it. The issue is how people handle themselves about the issue and how that reflects on them. So, with that said, I look back at this thread and say ... "Interesting... very interesting."

 

It's a heated topic and to me that says more about the person than the issue itself. I'm not going to fuss over a $5 drink, but it sure is interesting to see how people react.

[PocoDiablo]

and poco, I'm a bit disappointed in your statement about tightwad. I respected your opinions and thought you were a bit above teh reactionary insulting behavior. My bad.

No one is so great of a person, in my opinion, that they can avoid insulting someone sooner or later. While I do my best, I am - after all - only human.

 

Besides, who's to say I was not speaking more about my ex-wife than anything else?

[Venturer]

I find it interesting that my previous post in this thread addressed to Belle went unaddressed...

 

tsk

[ShySoul]

Money is irrelevant in the larger picture. As a gentleman I believe a guy should pay for a lady. However, neither party should be expecting one way or the other, and shouldn't be demanding about it. The people should work together and be reasonable. Women be ready and willing to pay just in case, and if it turns you off that much, don't go out with him again. Man be ready and willing and if it turns you off that she would want that, don't go out with that kind of person. No reason to make it into such an issue, just don't go out with someone who doesn't share your particular view on the subject.

 

Be willing to compromise and split things. I've found that it isn't the paying that girls like, its the making the effort. Yes, money doesn't indicate your interest and feelings in her. But it shows that you are willing to do something to show her a good time, treat her like a lady, and make her feel special and desired. Once you put in that effort, most girls will see that, feel wanted and desired, be ok with splitting the costs. I have offered to pay before and had girls turn me down. It wasn't the money they cared about. It was the fact that I would do it.