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She wears revealing clothing


JohnAlan

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So the OP should not DEMAND that his girlfriend cater to his insecurities. He should state how it makes him feel (implied request), and that's not "wrong".

 

But if she doesn't cater to his insecurities, her feelings about wanting to continue to freely dress as she pleases is "wrong."

 

"I'm not making a DEMAND you do something for my benefit -- I'm just telling you how I feel. That's all. It's just that if you don't act on my implied REQUEST, you don't care about me."

 

Actually, such a REQUEST becomes a DEMAND.

 

He has a right to tell her how to dress, but she doesn't have a right to reject that -- that is, if she still wants a relationship. That's the very definition of controlling behavior. Because obviously, he's not going to put a dagger to her throat to make her dress as he wants her to -- the threat is, I won't stick around.

 

And in that case, I think OP should break up with her. I don't think there ought to be a dresscode once someone enters a relationship.

 

I just really bristle at this level of possessiveness parading as "just feelings." Feelings aren't inherently bad until you let them govern your life, behaviors, and relationships and some of them, when they persist, make you unfit for an emotionally mature/healthy relationship.

 

Bristle all you like. There is give and take in a relationship. If you want to be free to do anything you want, then don't get in a relationship. By your argument if I said "It makes me feel bad about myself when you pursue sex outside of our relationship" I'd be trying to "control" the woman that I'm with.

 

In fact, by your definition of controlling, asking for any kind of accommodation from your partner would be considered controlling.

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I don't think the posters here are telling him he doesn't have a right to his feelings. He stated clearly in the first post that she's aware of his feelings, and he wants to know what his next step should be. That's when posters told him there is no next step. Because there really isn't, short of breaking it off with her if it bothers him that much.

 

You're correct. Not much else he can do. But I think if we're honest about several of the posters in this thread they absolutely meant to imply that he was controlling and insecure simply for having an opinion on her dress.

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So the OP should not DEMAND that his girlfriend cater to his insecurities. He should state how it makes him feel (implied request), and that's not "wrong".

 

But if she doesn't cater to his insecurities, her feelings about wanting to continue to freely dress as she pleases is "wrong."

 

"I'm not making a DEMAND you do something which panders to my insecurity -- I'm just telling you how I feel. That's all. It's just that if you don't act on my implied REQUEST, you don't care about me."

 

Actually, such a REQUEST becomes a DEMAND. And an erroneous conclusion. Maybe she wants the relationship as much as she likes wearing slinky tops/not being dictated to, and he's forced her to choose. Any chance that's not fair?

 

He has a right to tell her how to dress, but she doesn't have a right to reject that -- that is, if she still wants a relationship. That's the very definition of controlling behavior. Because obviously, he's not going to put a dagger to her throat to make her dress as he wants her to -- the threat is, I won't stick around (after x number of days, weeks, or months resenting you).

 

And in that case, I think OP should break up with her. I don't think there ought to be a dresscode once someone enters a relationship.

 

I just really bristle at this level of possessiveness parading as "just feelings." Feelings aren't inherently bad until you let them govern your life, behaviors, and relationships and some of them, when they persist, make you unfit for an emotionally mature/healthy relationship.

 

Agreed. Its one things is someone has a habit of dressing inappropriatly in certain places (i.e. wearing a tube top to Grandma's birthday, or wearing high heels on a hiking trip, or an old t-shirt, cargo shorts, and baseball cap to a formal wedding) but in day to day life people should dress how they want.

 

Based on this post I get the sense the OP is very insecure. I remember in college my long term boyfriend loved it on the rare occassion when I would show more skin then usual. His exact words were "Every guy looks at you but your with me."

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You're correct. Not much else he can do. But I think if we're honest about several of the posters in this thread they absolutely meant to imply that he was controlling and insecure simply for having an opinion on her dress.

 

They suggested he would be controlling to tell her what she can wear. Not for having an opinion.

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JohnAlan,

 

Don't let anyone in this thread tell you that you don't have a right to feel how you feel. If the top bothers you on some level, it bothers you on some level. Nobody can tell you you're wrong for that. And sharing that with your girlfriend isn't "wrong" and it isn't "controlling" and it isn't setting yourself up as her father or "policing" her wardrobe. You should be able to tell someone that you're in a committed relationship that something they're doing really bothers you. Especially if you can articulate why it bothers you.

 

That doesn't mean you have the right to demand that she stop or try to manipulate her into stopping. That would be controlling. But expressing your feeling about? If you're not "allowed" to do that, then why have a relationship at all.

 

Whether or not the top is "too revealing", the fact that she knows it bothers you and doesn't care should tell you a lot about how she feels about your relationship.

My husband LOVES to wear baseball caps. I HATE them. He wears them. Can I tell him he cares nothing about our relationship .

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Bristle all you like. There is give and take in a relationship. If you want to be free to do anything you want, then don't get in a relationship. By your argument if I said "It makes me feel bad about myself when you pursue sex outside of our relationship" I'd be trying to "control" the woman that I'm with.

 

In fact, by your definition of controlling, asking for any kind of accommodation from your partner would be considered controlling.

 

Bolding "anything" is the right way to go -- I agree, it's all about degree.

 

If you take my position to the extreme, we get the hypothetical scenario you described, i.e., "I'm free to pursue extra-curricular sex because it's what I want, deal with it."

 

If I take your position to the extreme, we get the hypothetical scenario that the OP feels uncomfortable that his gf uses Crest toothpaste instead of Colgate, and kindly expresses to her that since Colgate has been in his family for generations, he wants her to help continue that tradition in the bathroom.

 

Take anything to the extreme and you can make a reasonable argument about controlling behavior sound totally arbitrary. It's somewhat arbitrary. And at the same time, it's fair to say that if you live in a modern world where sexuality expressed through dress is no longer a good excuse for unchecked puritanical emotionally-driven demands (aka, requests made on pain of break-up) containing the subtext that "you're my property", it makes sense that "give and take" could be as easily applied to the OP as his gf. Maybe he should examine why he feels threatened when there is no boogieman, rather than asking his gf to check every day under the bed for the boogieman to appease his anxiety. Maybe he should do this because he realizes he's not being reasonable. Give and take, I agree.

 

Having said that, based on experience, when two people have such divergent values when it comes to the concept of what "respect" means, the answer isn't trying at "give and take", the solution is breaking up, because these types of value clashes make two people fundamentally incompatible.

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If you take my position to the extreme, we get the hypothetical scenario you described, i.e., "I'm free to pursue extra-curricular sex because it's what I want, deal with it."

 

If I take your position to the extreme, we get the hypothetical scenario that the OP feels uncomfortable that his gf uses Crest toothpaste instead of Colgate, and kindly expresses to her that since Colgate has been in his family for generations, he wants her to help continue that tradition in the bathroom.

 

Except your toothpaste analogy presupposes that we're talking simply about preferences and not about things fundamental to the nature of a relationship. What toothpaste you use should be pretty irrelevant to a relationship. Trying to tell you want toothpaste to use would be legitimately controlling. Commitment, for most people is fundamental to the nature of the relationship. OP isn't saying "you can't wear that", he's really saying "When you solicit attention from other men, it make me feel like you're not really committed to me."

 

Take anything to the extreme and you can make a reasonable argument about controlling behavior sound totally arbitrary. It's somewhat arbitrary.

 

That's pretty slick, attempting to define your position as "reasonable" a priori. In terms of discussion I find that somewhat manipulative.

 

And at the same time, it's fair to say that if you live in a modern world where sexuality expressed through dress is no longer a good excuse for unchecked puritanical emotionally-driven demands (aka, requests made on pain of break-up) containing the subtext that "you're my property", it makes sense that "give and take" could be as easily applied to the OP as his gf.

 

Whether you want to admit or or not, when you're actively "expressing your sexuality" through revealing clothing while you're in a committed relationship, what you're really doing is trying to keep your options open. You're expressing that you're not really committed, that you need the validation of other men noticing you in a sexual way (that doesn't mean any style of clothing is necessarily off-limits, but after all, you are talking about expressing sexuality through clothing, right?). If that's the case, is the guy really being insecure, or is he noticing the reality that she's still partially on the hunt for something "better"? Schrodinger's Boogeyman, right?

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And my husband continuing to wear baseball hats regardless of the fact I hate them so much I could burn his collection in the yard doesn't mean he doesn't love or care for me. It means he wants to wear hats and has always wanted to wear hats and always will. However, I am not willing to end a 27 year relationship over a hat. So I let it go.

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My husband LOVES to wear baseball caps. I HATE them. He wears them. Can I tell him he cares nothing about our relationship .

 

If you haven't:

 

expressed that you're concerned his hats are intended to attract women

expressed that that makes you feel like he's less than committed to you

and

he's done nothing to reassure you that he's committed.

 

Then I think you'll probably be fine!

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He knows I hate his hats with a PASSION. I am probably MORE vocal in person than I am here . I have told him I could burn those bleepin things in the yard. Damn man still wears them. He doesn't care about me. AT. ALL. If he cared he would respect my feelings and take those fuddy duddy ass things off.

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He knows I hate his hats with a PASSION. I am probably MORE vocal in person than I am here . I have told him I could burn those bleepin things in the yard. Damn man still wears them. He doesn't care about me. AT. ALL. If he cared he would respect my feelings and take those fuddy duddy ass things off.

 

"Come to bed......and leave the hat on"

 

What is: Something you'll never hear in Victoria's House!

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"Come to bed......and leave the hat on"

 

What is: Something you'll never hear in Victoria's House!

 

Nope. Never. I would torch that hat first.

 

 

But jokes aside, I ignore the hats because the hats are not about me. I know what they are about. His dad wears them and they are like a way of being like his dad. He idolizes his dad.

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Nope. Never. I would torch that hat first.

 

 

But jokes aside, I ignore the hats because the hats are not about me. I know what they are about. His dad wears them and they are like a way of being like his dad. He idolizes his dad.

 

My ex always always wore baseball caps when he's not at work, I actually didn't mind it, except when he took them off, the awful hat hair, omg, brrrr...

 

Anyway I digress lol!

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Chiming in to add that women who extrude atypically in the bosom and extend atypically little from the shoulders to the waist... for such women, all shirts are revealing. They are either tight through the bodice or deeply cut in the front because the shirts are cut to fit others whose shoulders run high.

 

I have a friend who wears the same size but who has more than shoulders than I... Its amazing how stuff fits her properly.

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Chiming in to add that women who extrude atypically in the bosom and extend atypically little from the shoulders to the waist... for such women, all shirts are revealing. They are either tight through the bodice or deeply cut in the front because the shirts are cut to fit others whose shoulders run high.

 

I have a friend who wears the same size but who has more than shoulders than I... Its amazing how stuff fits her properly.

I have no shoulders either. It is a pain.

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Except your toothpaste analogy presupposes that we're talking simply about preferences and not about things fundamental to the nature of a relationship.

 

You're right, in that I chose a rather frivolous example -- deliberately so. I could choose a much more parallel comparison, which would be the dictates in some societies prohibiting female self-exposure, with the very same arguments the OP is (and you are) using, only on a mass, socially-sanctioned scale. But I just didn't want to open that can of worms, so I'll leave that there.

 

That's pretty slick, attempting to define your position as "reasonable" a priori. In terms of discussion I find that somewhat manipulative.

 

I find it odd that you're denouncing my efforts to define some standard of "reasonable" expectations in a relationship -- which is, I agree, a tricky business -- when you are doing the exact same thing, just with a different concept of "reasonable." (And you've done the same thing with the word "preference" -- taking liberties to define, a priori, what things constitute a "preference/irrelevant" and which are "fundamental" to a relationship.) You haven't used the word, "reasonable", but your posts indicate that you find it a "reasonable" objection to raise the one OP has. We simply have different ideas of what "reasonable" is, a priori, even though you haven't gone out on a limb to use such a relativistic word. I would hope you can see this objectively, and avoid unwarranted and undeserved infective.

 

We both know that on this board and in real life, "that's reasonable" is a practical and valid phrase, notwithstanding the fact you could always deconstruct that into meaninglessness if you had a mind to.

 

I do agree with you, though, that what is considered "reasonable" is highly variable in relationships. I find most forms of jealousy to be unreasonable, while others find them reasonable and even desirable. And I made room for that caveat in my post by saying that these things are not well argued on the basis of some universal set of values. I can submit my opinion, you can submit yours of what's "reasonable", but in the end, if these do not agree, in this type of situation I've found that it's a question of incompatibility. I have been with jealous men, whom I had to prove my devotion to on a regular basis because they were highly insecure, and each of them had some justification that was completely a matter of perspective. From their perspective, it was reasonable -- from mine, it was not. And we spent way too much time trying to get the other to "give". I concluded from these experiences that the "I'm right/you're wrong" discussion goes nowhere. There is no arbiter in these situations. It's in the end a matter of incompatibility.

 

While I still believe my view is the "right" one, I'm willing to concede that if OP and people like him feel this way, it's right FOR THEM to find a partner who enjoys a high degree of physical modesty, shares the same insecurities (or values, if you prefer that word), and even enjoys her partner's wanting to shelter her a bit. There are a lot of women like this. And if two people have those same orientations, more power to it. Lots of successful relationships are based on people sharing beliefs that I find abhorrent, unreasonable, backward, and oppressive.

 

All of this could be up to debate for eternity, but this is not:

 

Whether you want to admit or or not, when you're actively "expressing your sexuality" through revealing clothing while you're in a committed relationship, what you're really doing is trying to keep your options open. You're expressing that you're not really committed, that you need the validation of other men noticing you in a sexual way (that doesn't mean any style of clothing is necessarily off-limits, but after all, you are talking about expressing sexuality through clothing, right?). If that's the case, is the guy really being insecure, or is he noticing the reality that she's still partially on the hunt for something "better"? Schrodinger's Boogeyman, right?

 

That's an assumption, pure and simple -- and an unfair one. Because I dress in sexy, provocative clothes, it does not necessarily mean that I am not committed to the relationship. It may be your inference that the "reality" is that she's "partially on the hunt for something 'better'", but that's the nature of the jealous person's inference. There is no fact in it, there is no "reality" in it, it's just a perception.

 

I know for a fact that I can dress in revealing clothing because I'm enjoying my body in those clothes, and enjoy feeling sexy, but that's more about my feeling good in my skin, happy with my body, and I feel alive sexually when I wear clothes that don't attempt to temper my sexuality. If you saw my everyday look, you'd laugh at this post, because I'm so not the girl who wears sexually provocative clothing on the reg, nor do I feel I'm an attention seeker. But when I've felt most into my man and we've had a sizzling night together, I have experienced wanting to dress in more feminine and sexy clothes. Just because that part of me feels fulfilled. It has absolutely nothing to do with being on the "hunt". If anything, it's a reflection of how good my man makes me feel.

 

So your interpretation of why a woman would dress like that isn't the only "reality" exists. And there is nothing for me to "admit", because this is not a question of me trying to hide some truth you're exposing. You're not in possession of a truth, you're in possession of a point of view -- as is proven by the men on this thread who feel proud of their women dressing scantily and don't feel the relationship is imperiled. All the monogamous, stable relationships that include women dressing up as sexily as they want are a testament to your "admit it or not" truth being false.

 

The one thing I object to about this OP's gf, in the account he gave, is that she doesn't see her clothing as revealing. At least that's what he said in the OP. Well, if you're going to have your teats that visible, admit that it's revealing and be honest about what it is. If the OP's gf is trying to convince him that it's NOT revealing, well then, I think that's disingenuous.

 

Guys who are confident in themselves enough not to be threatened by how their lady dresses rock. (Bonus points if their sexy self-presentation actually turns you on.

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My girl has this one shirt that just can't stand. It's so low and so loose that even when she just stands up straight you can see the gap between her breasts. If she kneels or bends over you can see everything up to but not including her nipples.

 

She knows I don't like it, I never told her not to wear it I just ask her if she could wear a cami cover under it and she doesn't because she doesn't think it's revealing.

 

What do I do?

 

I think we are being a little unfair to the OP to say that he is being insecure or controlling. Its not like he is taking a ruler to her skirt. I have a shirt that I didn't realize how revealing it was. When I first put it on, it looks great, but as a move around, it repositions. The bra if its a molded bra tends to pull the top down a bit because it clings, or if I wear a shoulder strap purse or a little jacket over it, the combination just makes my boobs pop out a little in a weird way and its not sexy - it looks like I can't dress myself or am seeking attention but mostly like I can't dress myself or i forgot something in the dressing room or I had my shirt on the wrong way. And because I don't always stand with perfect posture, you can see a little more than I would want. I did not realize until I was out with my boyfriend once - he brought it up. The main reason was that he felt I didn't know how it looked from different angles and that I might be uncomfortable with it if I saw how it shifts around and what I was showing people. I was glad that he brought it up actually. I have larger breasts. I do have tops that are very sexy but non revealing due to their cut or are designed to have a plunge but are appropriate because they are designed the right way. I am not faulting women whose tops are designed to have a slight plunge - but there is a structured slight plunge and then an ill fitting top that shifts around and is showing more than you think and I think that's the difference here. It sounds like she is not wearing a bra with it either. I don't wear this top anymore. I have found new tops to give me the look I want without anyone being able to catch a flash of my entire breasts. There was also a time when I was younger where I wasn't aware of the size of my breasts, really, and was glad that a female person that I trusted clued me in onto how it looked. I really needed a good bra if I wanted to wear that top or I had to wear a different type of top that didn't look like it was too small.

 

So, if she wants to dress with her breasts hanging out and sees nothing wrong with it - then he does have choices. To me, there is virtue in being modest. But if she is not a modest dresser - there is also a difference between wearing a top that is actually designed as a revealing top - but not 'i am trying to flash you'

 

What about buying her a sexy top that flatters her - but is for her figure type? They are out there. She might not be dressing for her figure type. Or she could be someone that just doesn't care.

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I think slovenly, ill-fitting clothes are a different matter.

 

Even so, if my bf wanted to base an entire relationship on one blouse he thought was sloppy and revealing, I'd find that a pitiful testament to the weakness/pettiness of our relationship.

 

Thing is, there are days I wear shapeless, formless tops or t-shirts and I don't get near as many looks as when I wear more form-fitting/clingy tops with lower necklines (this includes sportswear). Even though they're tasteful, my sexier tops draw more attention. So one could make the argument that any sexy clothing is vain, not "virtuous", and attention-seeking. Why ever wear anything sexy in that case?

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Is it just this one shirt that you don’t like or does she wear revealing clothing in general? You can tell her that you don’t like it and that’s it.

 

So if I don't want to be with a girl that dresses like she's single and going to a club, then what?

If it bothers you that much, break up. She is not your property, you don’t own her, it is very simple.

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You're right, in that I chose a rather frivolous example -- deliberately so.

 

Your example was frivolous, but I didn't object to it's frivolity, I objected to it because you presented it as the converse of my statement when it doesn't apply in the same way as my statement. It's the equivalent of attempting to counter an analogy with another analogy that doesn't fit the situation the same way the first analogy did. It's like trying to prove two lines are parallel by claiming the second line is perpendicular.

 

I could choose a much more parallel comparison, which would be the dictates in some societies prohibiting female self-exposure, with the very same arguments the OP is (and you are) using, only on a mass, socially-sanctioned scale. But I just didn't want to open that can of worms, so I'll leave that there.

 

That's a red herring and you know it. Nobody here has said that she must cover up. No one's handed her a hijab or a burka. No one's said that she's anything less than free to wear whatever she wants whenever she wants. All I said is that in a committed relationship there should be space to talk about it. And you defined talking about it as inherently controlling. If you're going to argue that

 

While I still believe my view is the "right" one, I'm willing to concede that if OP and people like him feel this way, it's right FOR THEM to find a partner who enjoys a high degree of physical modesty, shares the same insecurities (or values, if you prefer that word), and even enjoys her partner's wanting to shelter her a bit. There are a lot of women like this. And if two people have those same orientations, more power to it. Lots of successful relationships are based on people sharing beliefs that I find abhorrent, unreasonable, backward, and oppressive.

 

All of this could be up to debate for eternity, but this is not

 

ToV. I think you're right. I think this conversation is over between you and I. I don't believe for a second you mean this in the abstract. I believe you meant directly to ascribe those characteristics to me for taking a different position in this discussion than yours. The thing that's funny to me is that I think you'd agree at any other time that people in a relationship should be able to talk about what makes them uncomfortable.

 

That's an assumption, pure and simple -- and an unfair one. Because I dress in sexy, provocative clothes, it does not necessarily mean that I am not committed to the relationship. It may be your inference that the "reality" is that she's "partially on the hunt for something 'better'", but that's the nature of the jealous person's inference. There is no fact in it, there is no "reality" in it, it's just a perception.

 

I know for a fact that I can dress in revealing clothing because I'm enjoying my body in those clothes, and enjoy feeling sexy, but that's more about my feeling good in my skin, happy with my body, and I feel alive sexually when I wear clothes that don't attempt to temper my sexuality. If you saw my everyday look, you'd laugh at this post, because I'm so not the girl who wears sexually provocative clothing on the reg, nor do I feel I'm an attention seeker. But when I've felt most into my man and we've had a sizzling night together, I have experienced wanting to dress in more feminine and sexy clothes. Just because that part of me feels fulfilled. It has absolutely nothing to do with being on the "hunt". If anything, it's a reflection of how good my man makes me feel.

 

So your interpretation of why a woman would dress like that isn't the only "reality" exists. And there is nothing for me to "admit", because this is not a question of me trying to hide some truth you're exposing. You're not in possession of a truth, you're in possession of a point of view -- as is proven by the men on this thread who feel proud of their women dressing scantily and don't feel the relationship is imperiled. All the monogamous, stable relationships that include women dressing up as sexily as they want are a testament to your "admit it or not" truth being false.

 

The one thing I object to about this OP's gf, in the account he gave, is that she doesn't see her clothing as revealing. At least that's what he said in the OP. Well, if you're going to have your teats that visible, admit that it's revealing and be honest about what it is. If the OP's gf is trying to convince him that it's NOT revealing, well then, I think that's disingenuous.

 

Guys who are confident in themselves enough not to be threatened by how their lady dresses rock. (Bonus points if their sexy self-presentation actually turns you on.

 

You're describing a different situation here. OP describes his girlfriend putting on revealing clothing and going somewhere else, where he won't be. You counter the discussion with arguments about dressing up and hitting the town with your man. Two entirely different situations.

 

The reason dressing a certain way makes someone "feel sexy" or "feel good about their body" is because they get sexual attention from it. Those tight jeans "feel sexy" because men check out your ass when you wear them. That 3 piece suit makes a guy feel confident because he notices women noticing him. You describe "expressing your sexuality through clothing" and demand that even talking about it is controlling. Then you go out in the world and share that sexuality, expressed through your clothing, with everyone in the world who isn't the person you're committed to. I wonder if you'd feel the same if you heard some really attractive woman tell your spouse or lover how sexy an article of clothing looked on him, and then he started wearing it all the time, especially when he might run into her.

 

But hey, I'm "abhorrent, unreasonable, backward and oppressive", whatever I say should just be completely ignored, right?

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First of all, I take issue with the entire concept of anybody determining what is and is not "appropriate" based on societal expectations. It's completely legal and acceptable for a man to walk down the street without a shirt on, but a woman does it and she is "looking for attention" and/or "completely inappropriate" (and in some cases, could be fined though thankfully not in the province I live in).

 

Obviously I am not saying that you should be able to walk into a job interview topless, but by and large in public spaces society should not be able to police what a woman wears based on these outdated notions. Nipples are just nipples. If you can see them through a shirt or down it, who cares? Why are we so afraid of them?

 

I would also question how well endowed this girl is. It's been my experience that those with larger breasts (myself included) find it almost IMPOSSIBLE to find shirts that DON'T show off immense amounts of cleavage if you are bigger. A normal tank top on a smaller chested girl has me bursting out of them like nobody's business. It's quite possible this girl bought the shirt not really knowing how it would sit on her and if she doesn't mind her cleavage showing, so what?

 

This is a clear case of incompatibility. She is comfortable with her body and others seeing it. He is not. It doesn't mean she is doing it to attract other men or because she wants to be hit on. If she was, that would be another issue entirely (not being faithful to the relationship).

 

The OP can absolutely state how her wearing revealing clothing makes him feel, but she is under no obligation to alter her style of dress simply because he is uncomfortable with her overt sexuality. If that is a big problem for him, he needs to leave and date someone with a more modest mindset.

 

I hate it when my husband cuts his hair super short. He has naturally curly ginger hair and I like it when it gets slightly long and I can see the curls. He hates it that way and doesn't feel comfortable with it like that. I can't demand he keep his hair long just because I prefer it that way anymore than he could tell me how to dress or what to wear.

 

It doesn't sound like the OP and this girl are compatible and I think he needs to walk away.

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