She wears revealing clothing

[Feast]

Tired of vampires,

 

I don't think you and I are really disagreeing, maybe a little. I keep saying it's just one shirt really backing up the post's author here. I think sometimes women have had bad experiences in the past, say the dog tag and earrings examples you mention. I agree those examples are a man trying to show ownership over the woman, those are clearly wrong IMO. But the author requesting she stop wearing this shirt because it emberrasses him is not him trying to take ownership of her. I think that's a stretch.

 

I usually open doors for women, all the time actually but also on dates. I think it's respectful. A few times I've been chastised by a date for demeaning her by doing that, I don't really bother going out with them again if I see that attitude. this feels similar to me, the authors GF has decided to ignore this problem, probably because she's thinking "no guy will control me! Not ever!" And she's probably wrecking what might otherwise be a good relationship by jumping to that conclusion.

[youareworthy]

Tired of vampires,

 

I don't think you and I are really disagreeing, maybe a little. I keep saying it's just one shirt really backing up the post's author here. I think sometimes women have had bad experiences in the past, say the dog tag and earrings examples you mention. I agree those examples are a man trying to show ownership over the woman, those are clearly wrong IMO. But the author requesting she stop wearing this shirt because it embarrasses him is not him trying to take ownership of her. I think that's a stretch.

 

I usually open doors for women, all the time actually but also on dates. I think it's respectful. A few times I've been chastised by a date for demeaning her by doing that, I don't really bother going out with them again if I see that attitude. this feels similar to me, the authors GF has decided to ignore this problem, probably because she's thinking "no guy will control me! Not ever!" And she's probably wrecking what might otherwise be a good relationship by jumping to that conclusion.

 

Dear Feast,

 

I like how balanced you are in this response. My gut tells me that this OP was not seeking control, but that he was embarrassed by the revealing nature of this particular shirt, and it felt to him that by wearing it, she is signalling to other men that she is single. He didn't even ask her to stop wearing it, but simply to pair it with a camisole. I had a controlling abuser, and his "restrictions" for me were way, way beyond this guy's humble request.

 

I also want to add that there is a middle ground between the shirt she is wearing, and the high turtleneck and ankle-length skirt. I think most of us live in that middle ground. It sounds like even the GF lives in that middle ground, except for this particular blouse. If they are together for the long haul, that shirt will either wear out, go out of style, or becoming boring to her in a relatively short time, and this will become a non-issue.

 

The response of the OP's GF makes me wonder if she was abused or controlled in her past. I could see how, if she was, her knee-jerk reaction could easily be, "No guy will control me! Not ever!" Bless her heart, if this is why she is choosing not to wear a cami.

 

I hope this blouse helps the OP and his GF open up and communicate about their concerns, and leads them to greater understanding and increased mutual respect.

[itsallgrand]

Thank you for that reasonable response, youareworthy.

[youareworthy]

Dear Its all grand,

 

You are welcome. Thank you for your encouragement in my writings.

 

And that anthropologist/nakedness story is one of my all-time favorites. I burst out laughing every time I think of that dear native friend's response!

 

Youareworthy

[youareworthy]

I hope this blouse helps the OP and his GF open up and communicate about their concerns, and leads them to greater understanding and increased mutual respect.

 

If this little blouse DOES accomplish the hope I expressed above, perhaps the OP and his GF could buy a shadowbox frame, place the blouse in it, and put it up on their bedroom wall to remind them of the power of well-handled conflict to bring greater understanding and respect, and to encourage them to always seek to communicate, such that the results are this positive.

 

Just a fun idea.

[tiredofvampires]

I think because the OP only has I think 3 posts to his name on this entire thread (too bad OP, you're missing out on a great thread! haha), only a handful of sentences apiece, if that, it's important not to speculate either about what his objections are based on, or hers.

 

We really don't know ANYTHING about her reasons for wanting to wear that shirt, and where she wears it, how often, whether she's with him or not when she does, etc. Some posters here have asked him if this is the same girl that wanted to go to a nude beach without him (on another thread, which I have not seen -- this is the only one by him I've run into), so we don't know if she's a freespirit, or an exhibitionist, or whether she has less savory character issues going on, etc.

 

So to say:

 

the authors GF has decided to ignore this problem, probably because she's thinking "no guy will control me! Not ever!" And she's probably wrecking what might otherwise be a good relationship by jumping to that conclusion.

 

is a leap. We have no idea what she's thinking. And if she were thinking that, it's not "jumping to a conclusion". It's having a personal orientation about something.

 

So we know nothing about her, and next to nothing about him. So most of what we might say about his feelings are speculative as well, until and unless he shows up to clarify.

 

What emerged in this thread is that different men might feel equally uncomfortable with such a situation, if it was their girlfriend, but possibly for different reasons, such as:

 

1. Other men will "gawk" -- in other words, she will become the object of the sexual fantasies of other men

2. Wearing such a shirt means she's seeking that kind of attention because she's not really committed to the relationship and wants to show off her "wares" to other potential mates

3. It's embarrassing for the man to have his lady by his side (or even not) looking like she's "loose" and unclassy, and this reflects badly on him and his taste in women

 

Which of these mindsets belongs to the OP? Really, it could be any of them, or all of them -- we simply don't know, and this is all the information he's left us about his orientation:

 

So if I don't want to be with a girl that dresses like she's single and going to a club, then what?

 

Forgot to mention she is still in school, so she will get a lot of gawks.

 

To me, both those statements suggest that #1 and perhaps #2, which are related, are his main concerns -- he's actually used the word, "gawk". It's all revolving around how other men will desire her. The statement about her dressing like she's single and going to a club makes it sound like it's fine if she's wearing that shirt when she's single, but once she dates (or a woman dates), they should tone down their shirts. It's like what I said early in the thread: once you're in a relationship, you get with the "relationship dress code". So if she were his female friend who was single, he might be okay being in her company as she is, but if they started dating, he'd ask her to lose that shirt because now she's advertising herself to other men.

 

The connotations of reek of a type of entitlement and "ownership" to me, not "I feel embarrassed on the street with you, please, I have a reputation to uphold." Men/strangers gawking when he's not around (to be embarrassed by it) and relationship status point toward, "You're my woman, and I want you to dress like that, please. Lots of dogs out there be staring at your boobs, and those boobs are for my eyes only."

 

I find that controlling, and I don't think not wanting to be controlled in this way is necessarily due to being burned in the past by abusers. It just is based on the principle that you either trust me that I'm committed to you, even if I wear a risque piece of clothing, or you don't (and if you simply are worried about my safety, I'll promise you not to wear such clothes alone on a street at night and use common sense, thank you for your concern, and no need to be unecessarily paternalistic.)

 

Point being: my body and my sexuality aren't yours (or any other person's), just because we are in a relationship. It's still MY BODY and MY SEXUALITY.

 

I come from an art background, and I've done a lot of nude drawing and painting of models in my time. That means, totally naked. Some of these gf's had to stop modelling, because their boyfriends objected. Sometimes those guys would come and stand in the back of the room, arms crossed, watching the whole thing, like bouncers. Then (most commonly) you had the girls who were hitched and their boyfriends knew they modeled, and we never saw them because they had their own income to be making during that time. Then you had the guys who actually came to draw their girlfriends, because what could be better than doing art AND drawing their most adored model ever. And then you had the couples where once we'd draw the girlfriend, and on another date, her boyfriend would model. (that was more rare) I think only once did I see a couple that actually modeled together (and they were monogamous).

 

I'm guessing most of these scenarios would give the OP a heart attack. But I'll tell you that coming from that background, hearing someone complain about seeing a naked breastbone ("the space in between her breasts" in the first post) showing, when we even see that with bikini tops, leaves me thinking, I didn't think they made guys like you anymore. I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just saying, this is incredibly conservative, on a spectrum of Western culture. As for the guys not allowing their girls to model, or standing there in the back of a university classroom, making sure...making sure of?...that their woman wouldn't be raped on her way out of class?...it just was a joke to us. They really came off as so transparently insecure. And that happened enough. It's the same as the dog tag and earrings mentality all the way, and I'm sure the OP would be among their ranks. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

[tiredofvampires]

I wanted to add this, but the edit window ran out:

 

Make no mistake though, if two people are of shared mind about baring flesh and modesty, or even if getting earrings with your boyfriend's initials engraved gets you off, I have no judgment about whether that's a good or bad relationship. It's good for THEM if it works and there is mutual respect and no emotional abuse. But I have to call a spade a spade -- it's about insecurity and jealousy, and that's a really slippery slope, in relationships and whole cultures.

[MaryR21]

If those are the clothes she feels comfortable and attractive in then unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it. Everyone has a right to wear whatever they choose and it's not up to anyone else to police them for it. Surely there's enough good in your relationship to make this an insignificant issue? If not it may be time for you to have a think about why you would want to be with someone if the way they dress is such a problem that it undermines your confidence in the relationship completely. It sounds like an issue of trust or jealousy. Or maybe you associate revealing clothes with a lack of self respect? Regardless, if you care about her you have to let her make her own decisions, especially when it comes to how she dresses and presents herself.

[TMifune]

At the risk of being labeled "abhorrent, unreasonable, backward, and oppressive" (because clearly all those things are true if I'd have the audacity to disagree with you). I'm curious how one reconciles the hypocrisy of warning people that we don't have enough information:

 

I think because the OP only has I think 3 posts to his name on this entire thread (too bad OP, you're missing out on a great thread! haha), only a handful of sentences apiece, if that, it's important not to speculate either about what his objections are based on, or hers.

 

We really don't know ANYTHING about her reasons for wanting to wear that shirt, and where she wears it, how often, whether she's with him or not when she does, etc. Some posters here have asked him if this is the same girl that wanted to go to a nude beach without him (on another thread, which I have not seen -- this is the only one by him I've run into), so we don't know if she's a freespirit, or an exhibitionist, or whether she has less savory character issues going on, etc.

 

So to say:

 

is a leap. We have no idea what she's thinking. And if she were thinking that, it's not "jumping to a conclusion". It's having a personal orientation about something.

 

So we know nothing about her, and next to nothing about him. So most of what we might say about his feelings are speculative as well, until and unless he shows up to clarify.

 

..with then, in the very same thread, judging OP on that same information you said we didn't have:

 

I'm guessing most of these scenarios would give the OP a heart attack. But I'll tell you that coming from that background, hearing someone complain about seeing a naked breastbone ("the space in between her breasts" in the first post) showing, when we even see that with bikini tops, leaves me thinking, I didn't think they made guys like you anymore. I don't mean to sound rude, I'm just saying, this is incredibly conservative, on a spectrum of Western culture. As for the guys not allowing their girls to model, or standing there in the back of a university classroom, making sure...making sure of?...that their woman wouldn't be raped on her way out of class?...it just was a joke to us. They really came off as so transparently insecure. And that happened enough. It's the same as the dog tag and earrings mentality all the way, and I'm sure the OP would be among their ranks. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I'm guessing there's some magical sophistry that allows you to draw conclusions that grossly violate your own premises. Interesting how you can prejudge and effectively insult the OP, but somehow feel it's okay because you left the door open for him to defend himself.

 

Why would OP ever come back to this thread when he knows you're waiting to leap on him with your judgment?

[tiredofvampires]

Because I DO hope the OP comes back with an open thread to return to, I maintain that I think you and I, TM, shouldn't parse words together. You are free to think I'm hypocritical and all the other terrible things you insinuated about the person behind my posts, but that's not the kind of discussion tone I can respond to. A meta-discussion of the rhetoric is really not the focus here anyway.

 

I will just repeat that I said we can only speculate about what the OP's main concerns are -- and that, based on what's he's presented SO FAR, while I'm "guessing" (aka, speculating), it feels like an educated guess. And I leave the room for him to correct me in my wagers, in a disclaimer.

 

What I'm NOT guessing about is that he was upset that you can see the "gap in between her breasts", in that shirt. And my response to that.

 

Why would OP ever come back to this thread when he knows you're waiting to leap on him with your judgment?

 

Because I don't have that much power and there are many dozens of other posters and posts on this thread, many of them backing him up (mostly men -- most of the women have posted with the same position as me, so that judgment isn't only mine). And hopefully, he's a big boy.

 

My first post on this thread was over 6 hours after he posted his OP, and as I pointed out before, his last activity wasn't even an hour after he posted it.

 

I thought we were done interacting a number of posts ago, and here I am responding again, so any further things you post directed at me, I'll have to bow out of. The mods have spoken. I took you for more respectful as a poster than this.

[tiredofvampires]

Wanted to add, but the edit window ran out, that I also am not speculating that I strongly disagree with any line of thinking that propels the OP's attitude.

 

He should not date any woman in agreement with me. Unless of course, he decides to question/change his own attitude, but I don't think that's very likely.

[Liefde]

Well if you think she dress like a sl***t you have the right to tell her she is not cheap and you expect more of her.

 

Use your cell phone camera to take a pic of what you see, maybe she will then understand.

[Moontiger]

Well if you think she dress like a sl***t you have the right to tell her she is not cheap and you expect more of her.

 

Use your cell phone camera if to take a pic of what you see, maybe she will then understand.

 

Anyone acted this way to me I would never speak to them again.

[Liefde]

Well I won't want to date a halve naked person making a spectacle of themselves!

 

I do feel the OP have the right to tell her, if she acts that way in public it do influence how people see him as well.

[Moontiger]

So AGAIN he has to decide if one shirt is worth throwing away his relationship. If it is he needs to find someone who wears ankle length skirts and turtle necks.

[bulletproof]

Well I won't want to date a halve naked person making a spectacle of themselves!

 

I do feel the OP have the right to tell her, if she acts that way in public it do influence how people see him as well.

 

Reread the original post. The woman is hardly "half-naked," nor does it seem she's making a "spectacle" of herself.

Also, the OP did tell her how he felt. Nobody's saying he doesn't have the right to tell her. But it sounds like he was slightly more tactful than telling her she isn't "cheap" and that he expects more of her. In my opinion, that's a pretty disrespectful way to tell someone you're unhappy.

[Liefde]

My girl has this one shirt that just can't stand. It's so low and so loose that even when she just stands up straight you can see the gap between her breasts. If she kneels or bends over you can see everything up to but not including her nipples.

 

She knows I don't like it, I never told her not to wear it I just ask her if she could wear a cami cover under it and she doesn't because she doesn't think it's revealing.

 

What do I do?

 

Why sugar-coat what he really feels, that's maybe the reason why he feel like he feels.

If one starts walking on eggshells to not offend some one who are you fooling only yourself.

If a relationship is built on "I'll keep my mouth shut hope it works out" it can't work.

[tiredofvampires]

So AGAIN he has to decide if one shirt is worth throwing away his relationship. If it is he needs to find someone who wears ankle length skirts and turtle necks.

 

Or, she can wear a "classy" form-fitting, clingy top with a push-up bra, so that her breasts are well-contoured and featured for men to use their imaginations on anyway. Because that's what any sexy top that shows cleavage will accomplish, and because what men do is look at/for breasts. Men will "gawk" if you show off your form in any way, period.

 

How's this for some "breast gap":

 

 

 

Is the shirt really concealing less than this, which you can see on any beach:

 

 

[Moontiger]

Your right, better add gloves, scarf and hat to the skirt and turtle neck.

[Liefde]

Well need one say more...........!

 

 

 

Ooooh! Do put the word porn in when you search Kate Beckinsale

 

She is in an industry who live to show, it's the way they make there money.

 

I don't think the OP live on a beach or have a movie star for a girlfriend.

There is something like good taste in life and when your boyfriend starts to think you are going over the top, something must be wrong.

For the everyday person that see us on the street we are the person they see and we are judged that way.

 

My last words.........!

 

OP you have your standers!

I do feel you should stick to them and end it if you are not happy with things.

I don't even want to think what your mom and dad would say............!

[mhowe]

The horse died a few days ago!

[Feast]

At this point, If the OP wants me to "accidentally" spill cranberry juice all over that shirt, I'll do it! Let's set up a time and a bar! "Oops, I'm sorry, I'm so clumsy! Can I pay for a less revealing shirt to compensate you?"

[bulletproof]

Why sugar-coat what he really feels, that's maybe the reason why he feel like he feels.

If one starts walking on eggshells to not offend some one who are you fooling only yourself.

If a relationship is built on "I'll keep my mouth shut hope it works out" it can't work.

 

Where in this entire thread did anyone say he should keep his mouth shut? He can say anything he wants, although he should say it respectfully. That's not walking on eggshells.

[HeartGoesOn]

This thread has run its course.