She wears revealing clothing

[Helpexpressme]

I think it's ridiculous that the OP should leave his g/friend because he does not like her shirt.

 

The issue isn't really the shirt, the issue is her breasts hanging out of that shirt, and he has a problem with it.

 

What's wrong with his concern?

[superfan]

I think it's ridiculous that the OP should leave his g/friend because he does not like her shirt.

 

The issue isn't really the shirt, the issue is her breasts hanging out of that shirt, and he has a problem with it.

 

What's wrong with his concern?

 

What's wrong is that they have incompatible ideas of what is and is not appropriate.

What's wrong is that it is HER body and if she feels comfortable in a certain shirt or if she likes her boobs hanging out then that's all that matters.

What's wrong is that he is not the morality police and doesn't get to dictate whether or not her breasts are socially acceptable.

What's wrong is that he is obviously someone who prefers a woman who dresses more modestly and is trying to find ways to change her.

[Helpexpressme]

All he has asked for is a bra and a cammi.

 

That was the extent of his asking. He's not trying to change or control her. Get a grip!

[superfan]

All he has asked for is a bra and a cammi.

 

That was the extent of his asking. He's not trying to change or control her. Get a grip!

 

And if she doesn't want to cover up, she doesn't have to. If he is that uncomfortable with her breasts being visible, then he needs to decide if he wants to stay with her.

 

Boobs are just boobs. We use them to feed babies. The only reason they are considered sexual is because society has sexualised them through movies and television. She is free to show off whatever body parts she wishes too without condemnation or being told "just wear a bra" or "please cover up".

 

Again he is certainly free to make the request and express his opinion on the matter, but if it makes her feel good to wear the shirt the way she wears it then that is the end of it. If he is that uncomfortable with it, then they are obviously not compatible.

 

She is under NO obligation to placate him by putting anything else on. Her body, her rules. End of.

[Helpexpressme]

And if she doesn't want to cover up, she doesn't have to. If he is that uncomfortable with her breasts being visible, then he needs to decide if he wants to stay with her.

 

Boobs are just boobs. We use them to feed babies. The only reason they are considered sexual is because society has sexualised them through movies and television. She is free to show off whatever body parts she wishes too without condemnation or being told "just wear a bra" or "please cover up".

 

Again he is certainly free to make the request and express his opinion on the matter, but if it makes her feel good to wear the shirt the way she wears it then that is the end of it. If he is that uncomfortable with it, then they are obviously not compatible.

 

She is under NO obligation to placate him by putting anything else on. Her body, her rules. End of.

 

You make it sound so simple, but it is not. He obviously loves her but has an issue with that shirt and her breasts hanging out for the world to see. He dosn't want other guys gawking at her which is totally understandable. That is all his issue is.

 

For example. If you had a boyfriend, you loved him to the ends of the earth, but he refused to wear underwear. So he puts on loose jeans, and everytime you guys went out in public, his arse-crack was constantly on display. It irratated you, and you were embarrassed. Everytime his jeans went low, all everyone saw was arse-crack.

 

Now if you pulled to the side and said "honey I have a problem with you not wear undies" would that be so unfair? Or would you dump him.

 

This isn't about trying to control someone, it's a shirt/boobs issue only.

[superfan]

You make it sound so simple, but it is not. He obviously loves her but has an issue with that shirt and her breasts hanging out for the world to see. He dosn't want other guys gawking at her which is totally understandable. That is all his issue is.

 

For example. If you had a boyfriend, you loved him to the ends of the earth, but he refused to wear underwear. So he puts on loose jeans, and everytime you guys went out in public, his arse-crack was constantly on display. It irratated you, and you were embarrassed. Everytime his jeans went low, all everyone saw was arse-crack.

 

Now if you pulled to the side and said "honey I have a problem with you not wear undies" would that be so unfair? Or would you dump him.

 

This isn't about trying to control someone, it's a shirt/boobs issue only.

 

It is a shirt/boobs issue. She is obviously comfortable with the fact that others can see her breasts. Nobody has the right to demand she change how she wears anything. If she wanted to walk around topless, that would be her prerogative.

 

Having your arse crack showing is WAY different than a cleavage bearing top. One is thought to be a simple embarrassment, the other is used to shame a woman.

 

I could certainly ask my husband to pull up his pants, but if he didn't want to and/or liked the fact that the world could see his butt then I have no right to say otherwise. It's his body. If it REALLY bothered me that much then yeah I would have to walk away.

 

The OP needs to pick his battles and decide what is really important to him. If it is THAT important that other men don't see her boobs then he is maybe with the wrong girl as she seems to have no issue with the fact that people can see them. It really is that simple.

 

She is not his property and other men are going to look. If he is not comfortable with that, then he needs to leave. It's obvious if he has made his feelings clear and she continues to dress the way she does that she IS comfortable with others seeing her and that is something she is not willing to change.

 

Incompatibility.

[Seraphim]

In Ontario it is legal for women to be totally topless if they so choose.

[Helpexpressme]

I will not advocate for one second that the OP dump this woman!!!!!

[lostandhurt]

Where did the OP go?

 

Much a-do about a blouse. Anyways it will go out of fashion soon enough and then problem solved. I would still like to know if this was the same girl that went to a nude beach.

 

Lost

[mhowe]

She wears the blouse for attention. She would be thrilled about this thread.

[tiredofvampires]

TMifune -- I didn't post on this thread in order to get into a personalized debate about rhetoric. I at no point have meant to insinuate anything about you or your conversational motives, though you have seized this as an opportunity to do so. I've noticed you have that habit here.

 

I'd agree that our conversation is over, because this isn't a you-me discussion, but I'm going to post just to correct a few things you've misrepresented about my position -- I don't want my words to remain distorted, particularly if the OP returns and reads those distortions.

 

I'll split this up into two posts, so it's less onerous.

 

I never said:

 

But hey, I'm "abhorrent, unreasonable, backward and oppressive"

 

I said many relationships out there contain those elements, and fine for them if they work out that way (even though for me, that's an ew). You had some need to take that personally. How unfortunate. AND, in the same way, it's unfortunate and incorrect that if I wear sexy clothes, it MUST MEAN I'm "not committed to my relationship" or "hunting out other men", as you said, in defense of the OP.

 

See how this works? This is relevant to this thread. A person has insecurities. They need to defend something. They are mistrustful of something. They have a set of internal knee-jerks. They are looking to find evidence of the other person disrespecting them. And lo and behold -- they find something to prove they're being wronged. It might be a complete projection, but there it is. Could be a general statement in a post, could be a girl wearing a top that shows some boob. You've demonstrated how a perception/projection of one's own issues can attribute motives to another person that are entirely off-the-mark.

 

"Why is she wearing that skimpy top?" That is an answer you've already decided, regardless of what the OP's girlfriend might say -- which is to say, you have a need to peg "women who do these things". That is about YOU, my friend, not the lady in question.

 

I don't know the OP's girlfriend -- she may or may not be an attention-seeking exhibitionist. But I don't need that information to tell the OP that his sentiments reflect the notion that his girlfriend is his property. I find that orientation highly disturbing, and the reason I referenced countries where NO SKIN is allowed to show is to say, that's just an advanced form of the same mentality. SAME mentality. We don't stone women to death for dressing provocatively, but any man who says, "You're trying to get attention from other men, I don't like that, stop wearing that" is reverberating with the same frequency.

 

As for the Crest/Colgate example, I was using that to show that you, too, might find behaviors controlling that others could argue. And I stand my ground with that example. Because as a matter of fact, believe it or not, I would sooner switch to a type of toothpaste my partner is using on his request than I would stop wearing an article of clothing that threatens him. Why? Because even though the toothpaste thing is absurdly controlling as well, it doesn't designate my body as his property. That concept is absolutely against every value I hold about freedom of self-expression, and owning one's own sexuality and body, which are humanistic and philosophic questions of deep import.

 

The thing that's funny to me is that I think you'd agree at any other time that people in a relationship should be able to talk about what makes them uncomfortable.

 

I never said that a couple shouldn't talk about this, or that the OP shouldn't talk to his girlfriend about this. That is nowhere in my posts. I also never said "even talking about it is controlling." You will not find those comments anywhere in my statements, because I don't believe them. Let him voice his concerns all he likes, and reveal his troubling issues, by all means. His gf should know what she's dealing with -- and he should know where she stands on them.

 

What I've said here on ENA, which is me talking to the OP, is that I think he has issues and I don't think this level of jealousy is healthy either for him as a person/man, or for a relationship. It's an entitled position based on base insecurities, and I don't think asking his girlfriend to dress more conservatively is an appropriate thing for an SO to do (with the exception of cases where what she's wearing is a faux pas, and not respecting the company or event she's at, such as formal occasions). He's already talked to her about it -- so he's past that step. Which he's free to do, by all means. I'm addressing him, at this point in time, where he has stated his discomfort, and she continues to want to dress as she likes (as I would). Now what? He's come to ENA to say she doesn't want to honor his request. So I'm saying, he either has to decide that my point of view (and that of other posters who criticize him) makes some sense to him so he can do some work on himself, or dump her.

 

As I've said though, I support the latter course -- men with the mentality of the OP rarely change. And there is a remedy for that. I repeat: he is incompatible with his gf, and should seek someone who already dresses modestly and shares the notion that dressing otherwise is on a spectrum of cheating.

 

I do not believe that dressing with your body exposed is the same as cheating or looking outside the relationship. You should live where I do -- we have beaches here where women wear thong bikinis and tops that just cover the nipples. They want sun on their buttcheeks. And, it probably feels nice to have others admire their buns. So what? Lots of couples lying out there with that going on, and the bf's aren't up in arms.

 

So like I said, it's a matter of your own perspective and the question is, are you happy with your perspective or would you like to examine it for flaws? I"m putting that out there for the OP.

[tiredofvampires]

So just to finish up here:

 

I said I would go out dressing sexily while in a relationship, because my man makes me feel good, and you said:

 

You counter the discussion with arguments about dressing up and hitting the town with your man.

 

I said nothing to imply I'd necessarily be going out and about with my man. I might be with him, but most often, I'd be alone or with friends, or whatever. I would not just dress sexily with my man at my side, as if he were a guard dog, no. I'd go out there unchaperoned, with something sexy on.

 

The reason dressing a certain way makes someone "feel sexy" or "feel good about their body" is because they get sexual attention from it. Those tight jeans "feel sexy" because men check out your ass when you wear them. That 3 piece suit makes a guy feel confident because he notices women noticing him. You describe "expressing your sexuality through clothing" and demand that even talking about it is controlling. Then you go out in the world and share that sexuality, expressed through your clothing, with everyone in the world who isn't the person you're committed to. I wonder if you'd feel the same if you heard some really attractive woman tell your spouse or lover how sexy an article of clothing looked on him, and then he started wearing it all the time, especially when he might run into her.

 

What you're basically saying is that no one should dress in a way that makes them look sexy. Why? Because that makes members of the opposite sex gawk at them and we can't have that.

 

Women in relationships (who are committed) should not wear tight jeans because their butts look sexy in them. Tops that show off bustiness are a no-no. Men are wearing suits to attract women to them. Okay, so you have puritanical beliefs. You're entitled to those. I didn't say your attitude was "oppressive" or "backward" before, but I am saying it now.

 

Like I said in another post, I don't need to wear a blouse where my boobs are hanging out to have a sexy look -- and I usually don't just wear those things around the house, so any public display of such attire could be classified as being too provocative.

 

I think bodies are beautiful and to be celebrated (even the "imperfect" ones, which I don't think anyone should be/act ashamed of owning), and even moreso, I don't think if someone picks up on my being a sexual woman through my dress, that's a "sin".

 

I also think this goes for men, although I usually find obnoxious behaviors when guys wear no shirts just to show off, and obnoxious behaviors in either gender are, well, obnoxious.

 

As for some woman telling me that my guy looks hot in something he's wearing, I'd feel a combination of proud, complimented, and lucky. If it ended there, cool. If he then started to wear that just when he's around her or in her company and if there were other reasons for me to suspect that he was targeting her specifically, then I'd become concerned. But you're taking a lot of leaps and liberties to wind tales and storylines that go beyond the scope of this post.

[TMifune]

What you're basically saying is that no one should dress in a way that makes them look sexy. Why? Because that makes members of the opposite sex gawk at them and we can't have that.

 

Women in relationships (who are committed) should not wear tight jeans because their butts look sexy in them. Tops that show off bustiness are a no-no. Men are wearing suits to attract women to them. Okay, so you have puritanical beliefs. You're entitled to those. I didn't say your attitude was "oppressive" or "backward" before, but I am saying it now.

 

Bullcrap. I said that there should be room for discussion between two adults if it bothers one of them. People can do what they like, but if you're in a committed relationship and something you're doing bothers the other person, at least make a conscious choice about it instead of screaming at the top of your lungs "You can't tell me what to do!" like a petulant child. Talk about knee-jerk.

[TMifune]

TMifune -- I didn't post on this thread in order to get into a personalized debate about rhetoric. I at no point have meant to insinuate anything about you or your conversational motives, though you have seized this as an opportunity to do so. I've noticed you have that habit here.

 

I'd agree that our conversation is over, because this isn't a you-me discussion, but I'm going to post just to correct a few things you've misrepresented about my position -- I don't want my words to remain distorted, particularly if the OP returns and reads those distortions.

 

I'll split this up into two posts, so it's less onerous.

 

I never said:

 

 

 

I said many relationships out there contain those elements, and fine for them if they work out that way (even though for me, that's an ew). You had some need to take that personally. How unfortunate. AND, in the same way, it's unfortunate and incorrect that if I wear sexy clothes, it MUST MEAN I'm "not committed to my relationship" or "hunting out other men", as you said, in defense of the OP.

 

See how this works? This is relevant to this thread. A person has insecurities. They need to defend something. They are mistrustful of something. They have a set of internal knee-jerks. They are looking to find evidence of the other person disrespecting them. And lo and behold -- they find something to prove they're being wronged. It might be a complete projection, but there it is. Could be a general statement in a post, could be a girl wearing a top that shows some boob. You've demonstrated how a perception/projection of one's own issues can attribute motives to another person that are entirely off-the-mark.

 

"Why is she wearing that skimpy top?" That is an answer you've already decided, regardless of what the OP's girlfriend might say -- which is to say, you have a need to peg "women who do these things". That is about YOU, my friend, not the lady in question.

 

I don't know the OP's girlfriend -- she may or may not be an attention-seeking exhibitionist. But I don't need that information to tell the OP that his sentiments reflect the notion that his girlfriend is his property. I find that orientation highly disturbing, and the reason I referenced countries where NO SKIN is allowed to show is to say, that's just an advanced form of the same mentality. SAME mentality. We don't stone women to death for dressing provocatively, but any man who says, "You're trying to get attention from other men, I don't like that, stop wearing that" is reverberating with the same frequency.

 

As for the Crest/Colgate example, I was using that to show that you, too, might find behaviors controlling that others could argue. And I stand my ground with that example. Because as a matter of fact, believe it or not, I would sooner switch to a type of toothpaste my partner is using on his request than I would stop wearing an article of clothing that threatens him. Why? Because even though the toothpaste thing is absurdly controlling as well, it doesn't designate my body as his property. That concept is absolutely against every value I hold about freedom of self-expression, and owning one's own sexuality and body, which are humanistic and philosophic questions of deep import.

 

 

 

I never said that a couple shouldn't talk about this, or that the OP shouldn't talk to his girlfriend about this. That is nowhere in my posts. I also never said "even talking about it is controlling." You will not find those comments anywhere in my statements, because I don't believe them. Let him voice his concerns all he likes, and reveal his troubling issues, by all means. His gf should know what she's dealing with -- and he should know where she stands on them.

 

What I've said here on ENA, which is me talking to the OP, is that I think he has issues and I don't think this level of jealousy is healthy either for him as a person/man, or for a relationship. It's an entitled position based on base insecurities, and I don't think asking his girlfriend to dress more conservatively is an appropriate thing for an SO to do (with the exception of cases where what she's wearing is a faux pas, and not respecting the company or event she's at, such as formal occasions). He's already talked to her about it -- so he's past that step. Which he's free to do, by all means. I'm addressing him, at this point in time, where he has stated his discomfort, and she continues to want to dress as she likes (as I would). Now what? He's come to ENA to say she doesn't want to honor his request. So I'm saying, he either has to decide that my point of view (and that of other posters who criticize him) makes some sense to him so he can do some work on himself, or dump her.

 

As I've said though, I support the latter course -- men with the mentality of the OP rarely change. And there is a remedy for that. I repeat: he is incompatible with his gf, and should seek someone who already dresses modestly and shares the notion that dressing otherwise is on a spectrum of cheating.

 

I do not believe that dressing with your body exposed is the same as cheating or looking outside the relationship. You should live where I do -- we have beaches here where women wear thong bikinis and tops that just cover the nipples. They want sun on their buttcheeks. And, it probably feels nice to have others admire their buns. So what? Lots of couples lying out there with that going on, and the bf's aren't up in arms.

 

So like I said, it's a matter of your own perspective and the question is, are you happy with your perspective or would you like to examine it for flaws? I"m putting that out there for the OP.

 

No, you came into this thread pretty much to tell me to sit down and shut up.

 

This entire post misrepresents my position in the guise of correcting yours. My only position was that they should be able to talk about it like two adults. You decided that him talking about it before just giving up on the relationship was controlling because it deprived her of the opportunity to do what she wants....i.e. have the relationship that she wants and dress however she wants, but him suggesting what he wants is controlling. That's pretty much the gyst of your argument.

 

We are very much done here. But feel free to lie about my position one more time, you know, just to make yourself feel good.

[tiredofvampires]

I agree two people should talk. I'm repeating that: I don't have an issue with talking. I'm glad my ex told me things that made him feel insecure and jealous. We talked. We fought, and in the end, we broke up (after a lot of my trying to honor his wishes/appease him with reassurances, none of which ever were good enough, and me ultimately realizing I was not being true to myself). That was a natural process. I don't think he could have NOT brought it up -- it was bothering him.

 

What I DO have an issue with is the very nature of the point of view the OP holds, which is the cause of the existence of this thread, not the talking about it with his gf.

 

Please get that distinction clear.

 

instead of screaming at the top of your lungs "You can't tell me what to do!" like a petulant child.

 

The hyperbole isn't helping you.

 

By the way, please note that I've added a short paragraph to the end of post #62.

 

I agree we're done here. Your snarling attacks on me are the kind of thing that cause threads to degenerate, and I want the OP to have a chance to return to this. So my debate here with you ends.

[Helpexpressme]

What I DO have an issue with is the very nature of the point of view the OP holds, which is the cause of the existence of this thread, not the talking about it with his gf

 

Really? You have an issue that he has a problem with her boobs hanging out of that blouse? Why?

[Moontiger]

Really? You have an issue that he has a problem with her boobs hanging out of that blouse? Why?

 

Yes, I have a problem with it because it is HER body. And she has the right to display as much or as little of it as she wants for whatever reason she wants. If he cannot deal with that and is so insecure that he can't deal with other people seeing her cleavage then he need to go find someone else who dresses more to his taste.

 

I said at the beginning of these he needed to figure out how big of a deal this is for him. If it is a big deal he should move on, if not he should just accept it the way Victoria accepts her husband hats.

 

I tend to dress more on the conservative side because it's comfortable for me. And if any guy tried to control what I wore I would dump him fast.

[Helpexpressme]

Oh please, hats and her boobs hanging out, are totally different and you know it.

 

All he wanted was for her to wear a cammi for some more decency while out in public. We all expect that from our partners. We don't encourage men to walk around with their peckers half sticking out of their jeans. No. We expect men to be covered up accordingly.

 

No wait, that's controlling behaviour and we should just dump people.

[tiredofvampires]

Really? You have an issue that he has a problem with her boobs hanging out of that blouse? Why?

 

Well, when we say "boobs hanging out of her blouse", I'm going by the description the OP gave -- that when she bends forward, you can see them, that they leave little to the imagination. If they were LITERALLY hanging out of her blouse out on the street, it would become a law-enforcement issue, so I think we can all agree that "hanging out" means they're suggestively very easily visible in the right position.

 

Why I have an issue with that is, as I stated above in several posts, is that it suggests that:

 

1. My body is the property of the man I'm with -- that in a sense, he has ownership of it, and it "belongs" to him, and he's my keeper

2. I have so little integrity that I'm going to be swallowed up by whoever might admire my body and sleep with them; gimme a break, I'm gonna want to have a fling with the construction worker cat-calling me? Give me a bit of credit!

3. Along with that, that because I dress in something like that, I'm out of control with men

4. If a man were to make an indecent move on me, I wouldn't have either the sense or the will to fend that off

 

Basically, that's a type of lack of trust in the relationship. I'm for trust in a relationship. If I wear a top that is loose enough to show my boobs, that should not, in and of itself, be a source of mistrust.

 

And from a more historical perspective of power dynamics between men and women, there are a lot of remnants of men's control over women's bodies here. This thinking perpetuates those types of mindsets. The OP, "Joe Shmoe", is echoing thousands of years of rationale, suppressing women's sexuality. It's as old as the hills, even though it seems like a modern complaint.

 

I just don't like anything that smacks of anyone claiming ownership over my body, just because I'm in a relationship with them, as though they have to prevent me from "all the dogs out there that might snatch me up." That's over-protective and paternalistic at best, possessive and entitled at worst.

 

And as others have said, as an aside, this is largely a cultural issue -- go to countries were it's common to see people on nude beaches (I haven't seen that thread), or where prime time tv shows full nudity. lol, at the "she should wear a bra" comments, too. Brings to mind the bra-burning era. Oh, nips, nips, NIPS!! No, not the NIPS!! We mustn't see the NIPS! I wear bras (most of the time, when out), but if someone doesn't want to because they're uncomfortable and they don't need the support, wth.

 

It's such a double standard, too, because there is no parallel for men. I can't think of a single instance where a man would be chastised by his partner for "looking too sexy". If he wears tight enough jeans that he's showing off his package and a tight butt, should I tell him to stop wearing those jeans? I've yet to hear of something like that happening, and I don't know of many guys who would concede to such a request.

 

I also wouldn't want that. Hell, if my guy's out and about and looks sexy, all the more I can lawfully rape him at some point, as I've been provoked.

 

Anyway, I hope that answers your question, Helpexpress. "Decency" is really a matter of opinion, outside of a legal context.

[bulletproof]

 

All he wanted was for her to wear a cammi for some more decency while out in public. We all expect that from our partners. We don't encourage men to walk around with their peckers half sticking out of their jeans. No. We expect men to be covered up accordingly.

 

No wait, that's controlling behaviour and we should just dump people.

 

He doesn't decide what's decent for her. As long as she's not breaking any laws (which he would be if his penis were exposed), then she can do what she wants. He can express his dislike, but she might not agree. And it would probably do him more good to figure out *why* he's upset by it, so he can approach it from that angle. Does he think she looks tacky and he is embarrassed? Is he worried someone will be attracted to her?

 

We can only change ourselves. Trying to change someone else is pointless and futile.

[Moontiger]

Oh please, hats and her boobs hanging out, are totally different and you know it.

 

All he wanted was for her to wear a cammi for some more decency while out in public. We all expect that from our partners. We don't encourage men to walk around with their peckers half sticking out of their jeans. No. We expect men to be covered up accordingly.

 

No wait, that's controlling behaviour and we should just dump people.

 

No, I see no difference between the hats and this. I also don't believe women shouldn't be allowed to show their nipples in public when men do it all the time.

 

If he's this insecure with his gf showing a little skin then he needs to find someone who wears ankle length skirts and turtle necks all the time.

[greta96]

We don't encourage men to walk around with their peckers half sticking out of their jeans. .

 

Now that would not be an esthetically pleasing sight at all lol

OP has no right to tell his girlfriend what to wear or not to wear, but he can express his preference. She can choose to humor him or not. And he can choose to continue dating someone who enjoys dressing provocatively (and that's NOT a bad trait, it's just a given, some women like to dress more conservatively, some more provocatively), or move on and date someone whose dressing style is closer to what he likes.

There is no right or wrong here, it's just a matter of having a choice. The thing to be remembered is that you can't tell an adult what to do.

[Helpexpressme]

No, I see no difference between the hats and this. I also don't believe women shouldn't be allowed to show their nipples in public when men do it all the time.

 

If he's this insecure with his gf showing a little skin then he needs to find someone who wears ankle length skirts and turtle necks all the time.

 

Ok your nipple comment fathoms me immensely. Why you hold that view beats me.

 

We live in a dangerous world, and it wouldn't be wise for women to run around nipple free.

[Feast]

I haven't read all the posts, but I have sympathy for the author. An ex of mine had this purple tight shirt she'd wear without a bra. In the daylight, she might as well been naked. I was so embarrassed walking with her outside and basically told her you are flaunting WAY too much, I'm embarrassed. Eventually she figured out I was right from all the gawking.

 

Both parties should respect that they have to change somethings about themselves to make the other happy. If my GF really likes me wearing some shirt, I'll wear it more often. It means your trying to make your partner happy, especially when it's small stuff like this. This is a small thing but really telling, if she knows it upsets him to wear this ONE shirt she shouldn't out of respect for him. They should be able to talk about it be not a big deal.

[TMifune]

I ask:

 

But feel free to lie about my position one more time, you know, just to make yourself feel good.

 

And you deliver:

 

Your snarling attacks on me are the kind of thing that cause threads to degenerate, and I want the OP to have a chance to return to this. So my debate here with you ends.

 

Priceless.