I'm not attractive, but I can work on my personality...

[Dougie_D]

How can a man be attractive to a lady when the woman doesn't find him attractive to them? There has to be some small window of opportunity to "win her over" right?

 

I am not that smooth with talking to ladies, but I can strike a conversation. Without any physical change (getting a haircut, losing weight, etc..) can I guy make a difference by the choice of conversation? The choice of words? The amount he talks, looks at her?

 

I want to work more on my body language. I sometimes will have a hard time hearing, so when I listen (and even talk sometimes) I'll tend to LEAN in a bit. Someone told me that can cause a girl to think I'm creepy.

 

I'm looking for small details to work on.

 

Oh... and was there ever a time when you found a guy unattractive (thinking NO WAY it's happening for him ) but you changed your mind? What do you remember was the reason why you gave the guy a second look?

 

Thanks.

[John John]

Hey Dougster - I think the scenario that you're referring to (a guy winning over the girl based on her finding him interesting) tends to happen more if you meet a girl while doing something you're both interested in.

 

As we have all told you, you should invest in self-improvement for yourself. Not for women, per se, but it will help there too. So, I don't think you should not improve yourself because you're doing to try the "interesting" route. You should try to do both mate

[Ronniesgirl]

'and was there ever a time when you found a guy unattractive (thinking NO WAY it's happening for him ) but you changed your mind? What do you remember was the reason why you gave the guy a second look?'

 

Honest answer? No. Sorry. Not when I was young, and not now - hypothetical as I'm happily partnered. I'm a 'type' woman. If you're not this type, you're not physically attractive to me. If you're not physically attractive to me..nope, not happening. There are women who would be happy to get to know you without the initial spark of physical attraction. They exist, or at least so I'm told on this forum. But for some women (and men) physical attraction is THE thing that is going to make them want to get to know a person with a view of having an intimate r-ship with them. You need to get to know women as friends, doing activities you all enjoy, and see if something can develop from there. Impress them with your intelligence, humour, personality, demeanour, the whole package. I wish you luck.

[LC8328]

 

Oh... and was there ever a time when you found a guy unattractive (thinking NO WAY it's happening for him ) but you changed your mind? What do you remember was the reason why you gave the guy a second look?

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, absolutely. In fact I kind of have an 'opposite' story if that makes sense...I've never been attracted to an alpha guy because I found them to be shallow and lacking in IQ points. But that was my mistake, and as you know, not everybody fits into a stereotype. My husband was one of these people, or so I thought. An alpha with very good looks, so honestly, when I first met him, I ignored him and looked right through him. The first time I fell in love with him was when he opened his mouth and started speaking to me. I was floored. He was very kind, considerate, and funny, and he had a lot of depth to him. To top it off, he's one of the most intelligent people I know, but I would never have guessed that by looking at him (and I learned a lesson about assuming things).

 

I remember in one of your old posts you had said that you were talking to a girl (at a bar or club?) and she had somehow indicated that she had to leave, and you said something like, "Why don't you stay here with me?" That was cute. That came naturally to you and you didn't have to be what you call a 'smooth-talker.' I find most so-called 'smooth-talkers' to be fake. I want a man to talk to ME, not have a set number of pickup lines that work with most women. I want him to make me feel special.

 

Also, do these women know you have a hard time hearing sometimes? That would make a big difference. Instead of leaning in maybe indicate that somehow?

 

The window of opportunity to win her over is not small. I personally think if you are yourself around them and show them how sweet you are, they'll come around.

[Hollyj]

Yes. My ex was not attractive at first, but due to his self confidence and sense of humor, I fell for him. Self confidence, not cockiness is key. If you are comfortable with yourself, people will gravitate to you.

[SapphireNoir10]

Looks aren't that important in my experience. Some guys think I'm stunning. Others think I am gross. It's the same with anyone, even celebrities! Some people will find them good looking. Others wont.

 

I see in my opinion great looking people with not so great looking people...it's not about just looks for sure. And also what people are attracted to is totally different for everyone.

 

For example one of my friends lovesss a tall chubby guy. Another one hates blondes. Another is all about the arms...

 

Personality is a huge thing. My husbands sense of humour and laid back nature is what makes him truly attractive to me.

[Dougie_D]

Yes. My ex was not attractive at first, but due to his self confidence and sense of humor, I fell for him. Self confidence, not cockiness is key. If you are comfortable with yourself, people will gravitate to you.

 

How long did it take for you to fall for him? Were you friends for awhile or was it like a specific thing?

[Batya33]

Confidence is a huge turn-on and that can take awhile to present itself - so I agree with those that it's best to meet people where you are doing the same things/activities.

[Dougie_D]

I mean if it was just easy to hook up with girls by being friends, then you would think I wouldn't be single.

Is it possible to have a personality that only attracts people to just be around me? At work, no one says bad things about me. I get a sense that people like me as a person. I have a goofball personality. I hear words "you are so adorable" too.

Also, I have friends that are girls because I am not attracted to them. I talk the same way I talk to my guy friends. Or they talk about there relationship problems to me.

There has to be something I'm doing wrong. Maybe I don't have that great of personality that attracts women but only friends? Does that make sense?

[Batya33]

I've given you suggestions in past threads for alternative approaches. Do you want to "hook up with a girl" or pursue a potential relationship with a woman". Two different mindsets. If you want to hook up with a girl it will mostly be about looks that create short term interest/lust because that's what immature "girls" looking to "hook up" probably look for (not all for sure just more typical of girls than women). I've given you suggestions in other threads as to how to pursue relationships with women. I also would get rid of the whole mentality of "hook up with girls" - take a more mature approach and kind of fake it till you make it -meaning fake being more mature and less of this need to sound so cool and laid back - and soon it will resonate and that will come accross to quality women.

 

Goofball is all well and good - of course some women will go for that -but it sounds like it's part and parcel of this teenagish "wanna hook up with a girl" mentality.

[Dougie_D]

How come I can't hook up and turn it into a relationship? I just want to date. Maybe the longer we date it becomes serious, but I'd like to date causally. I don't want to be tied down to just one girl because I fear that I'm not going to meet another girl in the future. If we really spark and I get that feeling there is no other girl out there, then I'll ask her to marry me

[Dougie_D]

Relationship means you are on track to get married IMO

[Dougie_D]

If hooking up is short term that can lead to long term, than yes I just want hook ups then.

Long term is like over 6 months. Short term is like 3-5 dates.

[John John]

In order to even get to the first date, you have to gain a woman's attraction. In order to do that, you need a mix of looks and personality (your profession, hobbies, confidence, sense of humor, etc.). This particular mix depends on the woman. One woman may be 90% visual and 10% on the other stuff, while the next could be almost the opposite.

 

But you can't just neglect one and rely entirely on the other. You should try to improve yourself wherever possible.

[Dougie_D]

In order to even get to the first date, you have to gain a woman's attraction. In order to do that, you need a mix of looks and personality (your profession, hobbies, confidence, sense of humor, etc.). This particular mix depends on the woman. One woman may be 90% visual and 10% on the other stuff, while the next could be almost the opposite.

 

But you can't just neglect one and rely entirely on the other. You should try to improve yourself wherever possible.

My biggest fear is that it's my face that is the ultimate turnoff. I've been skinnier before. I really don't want plastic surgery. I've heard the body is just a bonus. I can't naturally smile with teeth unless I slightly open my mouth. Then it doesn't feel natural.

[Batya33]

How come I can't hook up and turn it into a relationship? I just want to date. Maybe the longer we date it becomes serious, but I'd like to date causally. I don't want to be tied down to just one girl because I fear that I'm not going to meet another girl in the future. If we really spark and I get that feeling there is no other girl out there, then I'll ask her to marry me

 

Then do not look to hook up with a girl. Look to go on dates with a woman and see if the dates become potential for a relationship. I was not talking about looking to get married. I was talking about maturing past thinking of this as "hooking up with a girl". Go on dates where you do interesting activities in public and get to know each other while you also see if romance is there. I don't think "hooking up with a girl" typically turns into a relationship with a mature woman and thinking of it that way is sabotaging at your age.

[agent1607307371]

I don't want to be tied down to just one girl because I fear that I'm not going to meet another girl in the future.

 

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, you haven't met a girl in the first place. There's no point worrying about being tied down when you don't have anyone trying to rope you.

[Dougie_D]

Then do not look to hook up with a girl. Look to go on dates with a woman and see if the dates become potential for a relationship. I was not talking about looking to get married. I was talking about maturing past thinking of this as "hooking up with a girl". Go on dates where you do interesting activities in public and get to know each other while you also see if romance is there. I don't think "hooking up with a girl" typically turns into a relationship with a mature woman and thinking of it that way is sabotaging at your age.

 

What is your definition of "hooking up with a girl"? Are you talking about one night stands? Honestly, I would be terrified... but if the girl was SUPER aggressive (almost like a stripper) then if that situation happens, it just does. I don't talk to women expecting that, but if they start making out with me and ask me to come over and spend the night with her, I'm not going to say no.

 

I'm not even sure if I am the romantic type. I don't even know what that feels like. I don't think I can be one minded. I have to be open to whatever situation brings me at that time.

 

But lets get back to my original question:

 

I think my face is my ultimate downfall with women. How can I be more attractive on the "conversation" realm? Do magic? Compliment her more? I also live in LA. The only times I consistently see the same woman is at work. So it seems like that's the only place to gain back that attractiveness. If it's really first impression, then what are some strong things that would "flatter" her to by-pass my ugly looks?

[Batya33]

I just think you need to stop using teenage or "cool" vernacular like "girl" for a woman or "hooking up" for "dating".

 

In answer to your original question you can be more attractive conversationally in settings that are more conducive to interesting conversation. You've received many suggestions including from my posts about where to find women with whom to have interesting conversations and you have made excuses as to why none of those would work. Would you be willing to revisit your posts.

[Dougie_D]

I just think you need to stop using teenage or "cool" vernacular like "girl" for a woman or "hooking up" for "dating".

 

In answer to your original question you can be more attractive conversationally in settings that are more conducive to interesting conversation. You've received many suggestions including from my posts about where to find women with whom to have interesting conversations and you have made excuses as to why none of those would work. Would you be willing to revisit your posts.

 

How does a setting become a factor of conversation? I can be in a bar with a girl talking about stars and the universe...or I can be outside in a tent talking about different types of beers. I feel like the setting of a place to meet someone is irrelevant for meaningful conversations.

 

If I'm going to meet people with similar interests than I should keep going to the places I go to. Venues, bars, etc... Do some hike at the Johny Tree or whatever it's called here is not what I'm about. My roommates had to DRAG me out to some hike in Malibu at the beach. It was AWFUL!!!!! The sun was hot, it smelled like the ocean,.. I literally wanted to go home and just play my video games.

 

I'm not even attracted to fit women. Honestly, if they have super healthy lifestyle, it's a turnoff to me.

 

I'm already going to the places and meeting people with similar interests. Not sure how I can explain this more. I enjoy dive bars, and listening to some garage rock band playing at a small venue. Remember, that's where I met this one chick, ... but when I thought it was "a date" it wasn't a date. Plus, she had kids and lives an hour away. I stopped talking to her when she didn't want to go on a "2nd date"

 

Oh!!! and Online Dating is becoming the "norm" to meet women. 1/3 people say that their last date came from online dating.

[Batya33]

If you don't get why it's easier and far more interesting to talk to people in a setting that encourages interesting/lively/thought provoking conversation then I can't help you there.

 

That's fine if you want to dismiss my suggestions with your negative generalizations. How is your approach working for you? You have no idea what your interests are is my guess because you keep rigidly sticking to the same stagnant places again and again -because it's easier, requires no effort and lets you stay in your comfort zone. Boring. Boring is unattractive.

 

I gave you my suggestions, you pooh poohed them as is your right to do of course. I have friends who met their spouses in bars. I also have friends who met their spouses at work/salsa dancing/tennis lessons/on line dating sites/volunteer work/setups by friends/on vacation/through sports groups/the gym,etc.

 

Keep trying to "hook up" with "girls" at bars and clubs. I'm hoping some day you are motivated to meet women for potential dating and maybe even a relationship down the road. It has nothing to do with your physical features, everything to do with your attitude.

[Dougie_D]

I really don't know why you think I will have an EASIER time at other places. If anything, I will come off creepy if I'm tying to hit on women. My intentions are to find a date. Not learn how to play tennis. I took tennis classes from age 12 -15. When you mention friends, are you referring to your female or male friends? And how was their approach?

 

For example :

 

I sign up for a dance class (75 dollars average) for an hour. We learn the dance for 40 minutes, then the next 20 we dance and swap out partners every so often. Then what? I end up getting phone numbers from someone I danced with? I really doubt that. Also, for someone who isn't use to actually "touching" girls, I don't think dance classes with strangers would be good. I would feel MUCH more comfortable if I went with someone I knew who was cool.

 

It's great you are giving me suggestions, but I think people forget that I've actually done these activities in my past. Yeah it was fun, but did I meet anyone? Absolutely not. Were there times when I went with a friend? Yes, and that was way fun than going alone.

 

I would love for my friends to set me up but apparently they "don't know anyone". Trust me, I've asked a million times. I think they get annoyed too.

 

I think my "attitude" might be the fault. My attitude comes of WAY TOO FRIENDLY. That might be the ultimate reason why I'm failing. Talking and having great conversation is not hard for me to do. I'll definitely use my surroundings or the common interest to get something going. That's EXREMELY EASY. I am not shy. I think I either come off a little creepy, too straight forward, maybe even talk to her TOO MUCH, etc... I have to create a "spark" in the conversation where she'll want to be with me after the first meet up.

 

The WAY I TALK or the things I say is most likely turning a girl off. I'm just trying to figure out why. Maybe I need suggestions on what NOT TO SAY to a girl. and things I MUST SAY before she leaves? Maybe I shouldn't bring up or ask her if she plays video games? Or maybe I shouldn't ask her "SO WHY DID YOU TAKE THIS CLASS?".. Maybe that comes off rude and nosy? Don't know..

[Batya33]

There are no suggestions on what to "say to a girl". Women are individuals just like men. If you're coming accross too friendly (too eager?) then work on that -be a better listener, stop trying to think about what you're going to say next or being a "goofball" as you put it.

 

And it's irrelevant whether you tried certain activities in the past - that's the past. Obviously I was just giving examples but you are determined to dismiss them or claim "been there done that". It's about being openminded and thinking out of the box. If your friends aren't willing to set you up with women, meet new people who are. It's not about whether it worked in the past - it's about putting your all into expanding your world so that you can meet the most people possible who you might have things in common with.

 

I don't think you should ever hit on women. Ever. Talk to women and if the conversation goes well and you would like to see her again take steps to do that. Talk, not hit on. Listen -actively- not hit on. No need to "create a spark" - be a sparkly person -a person who actively listens, who has interesting things to say, who is other-centered (not self-absorbed) and whose goal it is to make people, whatever gender, comfortable in their own skin. I don't think it's necessarily friendly to talk a lot - it might be but it also might be overwhelming, intimidating, too people-pleasing.

 

It depends on the individual you are talking to and how that individual is reacting to you -if the goal is to make that individual comfortable in her own skin then you will adjust what you say/how you say it/if you say anything to that person's reactions/energy/body language. It's not scripted and it's not hitting on. And it's much easier to spark interest in a surrounding that is interesting/fresh rather than stale and status quo like a bar. There's no one size fits all -there's just social skills and common sense and a desire to actually get to know someone rather than to "hit on" or "hook up with a girl".

[Dougie_D]

I'm not a people pleaser. What do you mean my "goal" is to make her comfortable in her own skin? If I feel like I'm making her uncomfortable I'll stop talking to her. I've had conversations where it's mostly about her and she never once asks anything about me. I'm a good listener when I feel she actually is interested in me too. I will purposely leave a conversation if she has no desire to know more about me.

Oh. And you never answered my question. Were you're friends female or male?

[Rosti87]

OP,

 

If you like gaming then join gaming clubs.The percentage of women who game as a regular hobby/activity is smaller than other activities but maybe that is a start for you. LA has to have meetups for 'sedantary' activity like gaming, board games, pool, card playing. There has to be meetups where people get together and go to small venues and watch garage bands.

 

Think of ALL the stuff you like to do and search it on meetup. If you don't like to dance, hike etc then don't look those up. It is obvious you need to find a sedantary female counterpart.