Am I going to have to work until I die?

[kamurj]

This is a very interesting thread, please lets try to keep it open and free of any political debates.

[IAmFCA]

Let's presume all the negatives are true.

 

The system is against us. We screwed up, got arrested, didn't get a better education. We live in a car, or our parents failed us in big ways, or we don't know how to read (well, not on this forum I guess!). There are so many forces working against us, and that we didn't ask for: the family we were born into, the lack of ability with which we were gifted, the network we don't have, the system that requires us to have a network. We are discriminated against because of our age, manner of speech, race, gender, class caste, medical condition, unusual (to someone else) name, sexual orientation, gender identification... all things that are tangential to whether we can get the job done.

 

So what.

 

We have a choice to sit and wallow in the suck of the muck of all of that, regretting what we haven't done, blaming the barriers around us, letting the muck suck us further into a cave of stagnation.

 

Or

 

We go do something. One thing. We use our personal power to take a step. Each step leads to another step. The steps may not be "as good as __" or "good enough for __" but they are better than sitting in the muck, and that our own benchmark is the only benchmark that matters.

 

Whether we are victim or victor is up to us.

 

Am I angry that I have work longer than I should? Who says what "should" means? How did I spend my money in my younger years? What did I do to contribute to the choices available to me now? At whom am I angry then - myself? And how does being angry help me? It doesn't. It just makes it harder to do what needs to be done.

 

We can discuss political policy and economic policy among our friends. As a personal choice, though, we always knew we were going to get old. Some people put money away, and some people didn't. At almost every level in the economic spectrum there are choices available between saving and spending. They are hard choices. But they are choices.

[IAmFCA]

I meant to add:

 

"Work until I die" - in some capacity -

 

I like to think of it as

 

"Will I contribute to society until I die" and I hope the answer to that is Yes.

[journeynow]

Anger can be useful if you use it constructively for motivation, action, and change.

 

"Millennials are the first in the modern era to have higher levels of student loan debt, poverty and unemployment, and lower levels of wealth and personal income than their two immediate predecessor generations had at the same age."

 

I agree about the higher levels of student loan debt for this generation. To a certain degree that goes hand-in-hand with a growing willingness to take on debt (for society in general), and a change in the business of education.

 

The " lower levels of wealth and personal income than their two immediate predecessor generations had at the same age" may be a matter of perspective, or how far back you look. Each generation has different options, opportunities, expectations, and major challenges. It's not unusual for younger generations to feel short changed, or resentful to those that came before. In each generation the system works for some entering adulthood, but not all. Each generation changes the system as the previous generation ages out of leadership.

 

The standard of living HAS changed with each generation, and that may be skewing perceptions as well. Don't give up, and be willing to be creative with your life, try different things to cut expenses or bring in different income.

 

P.S. I think I originally misunderstood your current job. I'd ask for a raise, and keep asking, or drop the weekend on-call part to take on another job, unless the the $ you save with the phone they provide is a perk you can't afford to refuse. I'd seriously consider a room-mate situation for a few years until things improve for you.

[Seraphim]

My mother always told me the world owed me absolutely nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. I had to make my own life. She also said if you're banging your head trying to make something work and it doesn't work you have to change what you're doing. Best two pieces of advice I ever got.

[journeynow]

My mother always told me the world owed me absolutely nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. I had to make my own life. She also said if you're banging your head trying to make something work and it doesn't work you have to change what you're doing. Best two pieces of advice I ever got.

 

Good advice. It took me awhile to get past the "good student" frame of mind, where if I just worked hard, behaved myself, and do what I was told, I'd succeed. The real world works differently from the world of school, K-12.

[Nuby]

Ahh anecdotal evidence. It's so much easier than hard facts.

 

I told you this because you were complaining about how difficult it is to acquire a new skill. Top tip... you can learn pretty much anything on YouTube. Engage brain, decide what you are interested in learning about and go and find out what you can.

 

Oh, and I didn't own a qualification when I was developing for a living. Graduate of the University of "I fancy doing something about it" however, I was earning a very decent living and I was owning/taking responsibility for my destiny

 

Is everybody living below the poverty line simply "not working hard enough"? If they suddenly decided to "try harder" would their lives magically change? If that was the case, we would have no poverty. Those stuck in welfare cycles, geared to income housing, spiraling debt, etc. are trying...believe me they are trying. Nobody works two or three low paying jobs because they want to - they do so to keep themselves afloat. I am working two jobs that are vastly underpaying me right now because there is no other choice.

 

Not sure if this is directed at me but I guess not as I never mentioned anything about "not working hard enough". It's about working "right".

 

Working hard is a process...like drilling. A person could be drilling for months/years in a random spot to find oil and never find it because it simply doesn't exist there .....but keep up the good work!

 

Working right is planning, engaging brain and starting to be a bit creative if necessary. So with said analogy, before we start drilling, let's find out as best we can where oil is likely to be. No creativity involved in this one.

 

I have great credit. My credit rating is fantastic, but our bank still told us we would never own a house because of my student debt. That's fine, I don't mind renting my entire life, but to say that it is entitlement to want to receive an accurate wage for the work I do is ridiculous. I work 90+ hours a week sometimes, and receive less than minimum wage for doing it. It is not entitled to say the system is screwed up.

 

This so called system that you speak about is made for people just like you who believe it and live your lives based on the opinions of banks. It's probably true, you can't own your home in you current situation and mindset however, if you do decide owning your own home is important to you, do not listen to those who tell you it's impossible, listen to those you tell you "it is possible if..." This goes for anything you wish to do

 

Working 90+ hours a week for less than minimum wage means one of 2 things:

 

1) You love what you do so much that the money is not priority and you'll happily commit your time to it

2) You have a terrible, terrible work life balance and you need to own it, take responsibility for it and do something about it. If you don't know where to start, ask.

 

 

I like you tvnerdgirl! You're obviously an extremely intelligent human being however, sometimes one can be too smart for ones self! Seems you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

But stay angry.

 

The worst thing that can happen is for you to get complacent...because then your fate really is sealed.

 

You have got it so wrong but yet so right! Anger is something we all need to feel but it's a negative emotion that takes up way too much cognitive effort and time. It's essentially counterproductive. So yes, of course we should feel anger but successful people acknowledge it, accept it and then do something about getting rid of it and changing their circumstances. The last sentence is a gem though!

[superfan]

Not sure if this is directed at me but I guess not as I never mentioned anything about "not working hard enough". It's about working "right".

 

Working hard is a process...like drilling. A person could be drilling for months/years in a random spot to find oil and never find it because it simply doesn't exist there .....but keep up the good work!

 

So, those who are living in poverty in 3rd world countries are simply not "working right"? There are NO other systemic factors at play? Wow, you should go tell them that. I am sure they will get on youtube right away to learn a new skill and get out of their situation.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, but refusing to acknowledge that socio-economic factors play a part in systemic poverty is willful ignorance.

 

Working 90+ hours a week for less than minimum wage means one of 2 things:

 

1) You love what you do so much that the money is not priority and you'll happily commit your time to it

2) You have a terrible, terrible work life balance and you need to own it, take responsibility for it and do something about it. If you don't know where to start, ask.

 

I am a teacher living in a province where the system's regulations have made it all but impossible to obtain a job within a public school board. Based on the current regulations it will take me up to 15 years to see a permanent contract IF I am able to get on a supply list which, after 5 years I have been unable to do. I currently work at two different private schools (going back and forth all day) in order to make ends meet and make less than minimum. You are partly right with #1. I deeply care about what I do. I love my students and want to see them succeed. In terms of the importance of money, it is not the most important thing in the world to me, but I DO deserve a living wage (which I am not getting at present).

[happpybear]

Regardless of where you stand on the issue of systemic poverty on a micro/macro level, I think we can all agree to disagree here....right?

 

I think that there are things that the OP or anyone can do to change their situations, and try to remain positive in some capacity. Yes, you very well may be working until you die, you may get a very good job but be laid off when you are 55, before you ready to be financially able to retire, and thus forced to work longer. You may suffer an illness that wipes out your bank account and savings and causes you to lose your job, you could lose all your money in the a stock market crash when you are 62--these things happen to hard working normal people all the time. You just have to live and work smart, like someone else suggested, make sure you have a contingency plan if things go down hill, focus on your strengths and find a way to capitalize on them (what skills can you teach, for example), and never expect anyone to or anything to give you anything. You have to remain resilient and adaptive so as not to get left behind.

[faraday]

As far as I know...the U.S. isn't a third world country...and comparing life in the U.S. with people in third world countries is incredibly insulting and naive. They're in a different system. A far worse system.. compared to them, were extremely fortunate. Compared to generations before us, we're still extremely lucky. People starved here as short a time ago as 1940....so when people say it was easier for past generations, I want to know which ones? It seems there were a few very lucky generations...but the rest had it far worse than us.

[happpybear]

........Nevermind....I think the contents of my post may have been too political so I have deleted it

[chickadeedee]

I took my first trip out of the country and drove accross the border into Mexico, and saw people living in shacks where the walls were made of old newspapers and there was sewage running openly down the middle of the streets. There were naked children wandering the streets covered in filth, and babies teething on sticks they were pulling out of the mud.

 

I swore to myself I would never feel sorry for myself again if i had an old car or less money or things than I wanted. People in the lowest socioeconomic brackets in this country live like princes compared to many other countries.

 

And feeling negative and sorry for yourself never got anybody anywhere or fixed anything.

 

I think what the majority of people are saying on this thread is that if you want to improve your life, you first have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and then establish goals and work towards them, because if you live in a developed country, if you really want to and put effort into it and make good decisions and choices, you can improve your life. But that doesn't mean you will get exactly what you want it when you want it if you make bad decisions or aren't willing to change your life and move in a different direction if the direction you are going in isn't getting you where you want to go. Sometimes you need to change careers or where you live in order to get the opportunities you need to get yourself the life you want.

[Nuby]

So, those who are living in poverty in 3rd world countries are simply not "working right"? There are NO other systemic factors at play? Wow, you should go tell them that. I am sure they will get on youtube right away to learn a new skill and get out of their situation.

 

In the above scenario you are indeed right. Pretty sure OP lives in the "land of the free" though so let's not get this out of context. As for Canada, it's hardly a 3rd world country now is it? #rhetorical

 

I am a teacher living in a province where the system's regulations have made it all but impossible to obtain a job within a public school board. Based on the current regulations it will take me up to 15 years to see a permanent contract IF I am able to get on a supply list which, after 5 years I have been unable to do. I currently work at two different private schools (going back and forth all day) in order to make ends meet and make less than minimum. You are partly right with #1. I deeply care about what I do. I love my students and want to see them succeed. In terms of the importance of money, it is not the most important thing in the world to me, but I DO deserve a living wage (which I am not getting at present).

 

Good for you! We need more people in the world like this but if you start a 1000 mile journey knowingly in a broken car, don't be surprised if along the way it breaks down.

 

The reality is, only you are holding you back. If you're in a province where the regulations don't meet your requirements then guess what? You're in the wrong place. Of course, there will be other factors that prevent you from moving or changing your job but these decisions are yours. Moving around is not for everyone and certain people only want to work in one field.

 

Why don't you do something like writing a book on a subject you know well. Sell it online as an ebook. Make a simple website on something like Wordpress, sell your book from there...format it for the Kindle and put it on the Amazon book store and over time you can earn an additional passive income.... forever!

 

There's so much that we can do to better a situation that we find ourselves in. It just involves a little lateral thinking.

 

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." George Bernard Shaw - Man and Superman

 

Don't let yourself be a part of that stereotype!

[ApocalypseDreams]

As far as I know...the U.S. isn't a third world country...and comparing life in the U.S. with people in third world countries is incredibly insulting and naive. They're in a different system. A far worse system.. compared to them, were extremely fortunate. Compared to generations before us, we're still extremely lucky. People starved here as short a time ago as 1940....so when people say it was easier for past generations, I want to know which ones? It seems there were a few very lucky generations...but the rest had it far worse than us.

 

I think it's also insulting and naive to try and use the "don't you realise how good you have it in the first world?!" argument to discredit legitimate grievances that many disadvantaged people face in the US, Europe, Australia etc. That argument is generally pulled out by privileged people who have it good in the society they're in and have no idea how miserable it is living in poverty in a first world country.

[faraday]

I think it's also insulting and naive to try and use the "don't you realise how good you have it in the first world?!" argument to discredit legitimate grievances that many disadvantaged people face in the US, Europe, Australia etc. That argument is generally pulled out by privileged people who have it good in the society they're in and have no idea what living in poverty in a first world country is like.

Dude, have you been to a third world country?

 

I don't think you've read my prior posts...I moved out of my parents home at age 14 and lived in shelters/group homes/couch surfed, working full time while I completed high school. I saved every penny I could. Bought a crappy car at 16. Kept saving. Put 10% down on a crappy condo when I was 19. I worked and saved so I could pay for college. I found out I was pregnant at 24 and dropped out. My retail job take home went mostly to childcare costs....so I thought...if they can charge that much for mediocre childcare...what can I charge to provide exceptional care? So I opened a dayhome out of my house.

 

My life has been far from privileged....I've worked hard for my life. Last year I closed down my dayhome and went back to school for 8 months...and opened a completely different business selling art. I'm $40,000 in debt at this point...but I'm not worried...because I will do well in this business.

 

My bf has a degree, he's a scientist. His profession...had no jobs where he lived. So a year ago he packed up everything and moved to where there was jobs. He's sometimes sad that he probably won't ever get to move back home, but he accepts that there's a better life for him here....so he's making a life here for himself.

 

You (generic you) can make excuses...or you can try a well thought out plan, refine, refine, refine...until it works.

[ApocalypseDreams]

Just because you criticise the system you live in, it doesn't mean that your only option is to sit around and whinge about it (or make excuses ).

 

I work in an occupation that is based around improving people's conditions at a more systemic level, plus I volunteer my time in several activist organisations.

 

I think we live in an unequal society and I want to do my bit to change it.

[Nuby]

More posts like this please!

[ApocalypseDreams]

If only the 48 million Americans and 13 million Brits living in poverty today stopped making excuses, worked harder, became better individuals and just generally had the superior character of some of the people posting in this thread, then there would be no one in poverty!

[faraday]

Okay, be a statistic I'm not going to be.

[Seraphim]

In this life we have to constantly re evaluate our options. If something is not working for us then it is time to find something that does. My mom got to be a CEO with a HIGH SCHOOL education. She made her own opportunities and she was a master at finding opportunities.

 

Me? Am I using my degree? Nope not at all. I found out after I graduated there was no use for what I went to school for. Ok, that meant a shift in focus. Did I have to pay the student debt back? Yup, for 10 years. But I just did other things than what I went to school for. If you are doing is not cutting it, or if the system screwed you this means you have to refocus and not just bang your head trying to do the same thing that is getting you nowhere.

 

And, never? Never is a long time and doesn't exist. The older you get the more you realize never is a long damned time.

[happpybear]

Me? Am I using my degree? Nope not at all. I found out after I graduated there was no use for what I went to school for. Ok, that meant a shift in focus. Did I have to pay the student debt back? Yup, for 10 years. But I just did other things than what I went to school for. If you are doing is not cutting it, or if the system screwed you this means you have to refocus and not just bang your head trying to do the same thing that is getting you nowhere.

 

I totally relate to this, I spent 7 years in post-secondary education and when I came out there was not a lot of jobs in my field. I got a crappy low paying contract job in my field, and I tried to find a decent job (by decent I mean non-poverty wages, not short-term contracts) because the crappy job was not getting me anywhere. Eventually I ended-up accepting a position in a large corporation doing work that was not related to my field in any way--but I got paid well and eventually was hired on permanently and got a pension and health care benefits.

 

I still searched for decent jobs in my field for over five years, I applied to jobs all over my country and in other countries like the UK and the USA--I think I had like..3 interviews in that time--and none of them lead to a job--and most of the jobs advertised were really awful like unpaid internships and short term contracts at minimum wage. Eventually I surrendered the fantasy--gave up on finding a job in my field. Anyway, my skills were stale after 5 years, no one would likely want to hire me when the could get a new grad.

 

Just really bad timing, bad economy, bad demographics, and a bad decision on my part to study what I did. I accept that blame. So now I do something really different and have a decent job, but I don't love my job and don't want to be doing this forever, so I am hoping to open a business in a few years doing something that excites me and plugs a hole in the market. I don't know if this new endeavor will be successful, I may fail horribly, it may never even get off the ground, but I have to try.

 

You have to be open to new ideas and opportunities and actively seek them out, if you wait for them to come to you, you might be waiting a really long time.

[Hell_On_Heels]

 

I am working two jobs that are vastly underpaying me right now.

 

I am not in any way "entitled"

 

Read those 2 sentences again. Then again and again and again.

 

YOU believe you're underpaid. It seems the market disagrees with you. If it didn't, you'd be working one job in the same field for the wages you want.

YOU believe you work hard enough to have the things you want. It seems the world disagrees with you. Perhaps the world would like to see you working smarter instead.

 

On Revolution, Hannah Arendt. Read it. She'll tell you with great eloquence that angry people vying for social change are what revolutions are made of. It's not a bad thing. It doesn't automatically mean bloodshed. I just don't think it's gonna help the OP at this point.

 

You're not thinking things through. You are knee jerking to certain words. You don't have to like the whole world to thrive in it. But you do have to open your thinking, and be willing to try completely new lines of thought.

 

You keep posting that you can't. I believe you. I believe that YOU can't, because you believe it. I am convinced that others can, and do, and will. If that infuriates you, then you need to consider why that is.

 

You might be seeing this as an argument or debate. I don't. It's new ways of considering old info. If you don't want it, throw it out, and continue on your way. Sadly, your way just doesn't seem to be working for you.

[Traveler27]

You missed my point about the cleaning reference. Someone had suggested that the OP get a cleaning job on the side/weekends - IN ADDITION to their existing full-time, and 24 hour on call weekend job.

 

Let me say that I think it's wonderful that some people have had success with self-employment; entrepreneurship is a great thing if it can provide you with a lifestyle that is comfortable, and meets all of your needs. However, being a cleaner and/or dog walker does not provide any health benefits to my knowledge. A lot of us here in the United States do not have the luxury of a national health system, so we rely on employers to provide health benefits. This is very crucial, so "thinking out of the box" sounds like a good idea, but doesn't take into account many other factors. Also, and this is just my personal opinion; I would not entertain being a dog walker nor a cleaner. I have spent a fortune on my higher education, and have two advanced degrees. I for one would like to utilize them and my skills in roles more suited to my abilities. I've done my fair share of non-glamorous jobs in my teens, 20's and even in desperation in my early 30's. So picking up dog poo and cleaning other people's toilets would be a pass for me, and surely many others who have spent the time, effort and money on higher education which will keep many of us in debt well into our later years.

[faraday]

Cool, well that's good for you I'm just saying...my house cleaner makes over $60,000 a year...so while the "work is beneath" many, she's laughing all the way to the bank.

 

It's great if your education supports you financially to be above lowly cleaners and dog walkers. All I know...is that they do quite well for themselves.

 

And I actually have a medical condition where I spend around $2000 a month on medications...that is not covered by the Canadian government...so I had to take out a plan and I pay for it...and pay the deductibles. It still leaves me covering about $400 a month...but it's better than nothing. Is there is nothing like that in the states? Hopefully Obama care fixes that soon.

 

I think DF was advocating finding something else where she can either do self employment full time, or find a job that's 40 hours so that she can work on weekends.

 

I had a housecleaner last year that also nannied. While the kids were at school, she would clean a house on top of the house she nannied for. She worked her butt off...but she made good money.

[faraday]

Honestly, opening a dayhome...changing diapers all day, having other people's children wiping snot on my furniture for 14 hours a day...dealing with potty training, picky eaters, tempter tantrums, being bitten (that kid was a jerk), having my stuff peed on or destroyed by children, my baseboards destroyed by tricycle wheels...I've caught puke in my bare hands on multiple occasions....it was not living the dream. Sure, it could have easily been below me....but I was making around $60,000 a year tax free....so it was totally worth it. I bought a bigger house...renovated it...I bought a new vehicle...my daughter has everything she could want...and I put away monthly for her education....I had a decent savings until I pulled it to help fund my new business.

 

So....to each his own. But if things are below you and they pay more than your educated job...it might be time to reevaluate....or at the very least, stop complaining about the system. JMHO