Am I going to have to work until I die?

[happpybear]

I think in desperate time, you have to do whatever it takes to keep your head above water.

 

Maybe it's my Protestant work ethic, or just that I was raised with the mind set to just "get on with things", I am thoroughly educated, but I don't consider a job as a cleaner beneath me, if I fall on hard times I will do whatever it takes to pay my bills and feed myself because that last thing I would want to do is rely on hand-outs from anyone (whether family or friends, or from the government). I am not trying to say that people who do receive said hand-outs are bad for doing so--just I would want to exhaust every option first if I am able-bodied and capable enough to do so.

 

I think complaining about the system is valid, I do believe that there needs to be changes in this world to address income inequality, but it's not gonna happen overnight. Everyone gets to pick their causes and their fights, I think it's everyone's right and civic duty to try speak their mind and try to take steps to change the things they don't like in society--whatever they may be, it can be a simple as voting for political candidates that address your concerns, or directly working with organizations that address the things that you want to fight for (like Jonty).

 

I think the posters that have written about the "system" are just trying to tell the OP that if she is angered by the income inequality that she sees around her--she has every right to be mad and to work to make changes on a micro or macro level--if she wants to take on that fight, and I think that is a valid suggestion--social change doesn't happen if people don't speak up and act.

 

But I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting that the OP sit in a basement somewhere, wear a tinfoil hat and just complain--to use "the system" as an excuse to not "get on with things" . Everyone has suggested that she make career changes and try something new right now in order to get by....One can both hold down a job or two and also advocate for social change...This is what I think TVNerdgirl is suggesting--at least that's how I read it.

[journeynow]

I admit, my earlier posts on this thread were based on a misunderstanding of the OP's work situation. I thought she was on-call 24/7 at a low pay/high stress job. In that case I was suggesting giving up that job for something that allowed her more options.

 

In the OP's shoes, I'd suggest coming up with a short term plan (short-term pain, long-term gain). I can sympathize with the OP, because for years I was in similar shoes, working as hard as I could, struggling to make ends meet, and loosing ground rather than getting ahead. It's hard to know what to do differently to make things better. What turned things around for me was moving to a location with more job opportunities where I worked 2 jobs (one of them house-cleaning, which was a great way to work out anger and frustration, earn a reliable reputation, network, learn about business, and feel appreciated) and was able to cut some cost-of-living expenses. Up until then, there were a 100 reasons why I did not want to move, and would not have if we hadn't been bumping along at rock bottom for far too long and if my husband hadn't moved first to find a job. At that point our priority was improving our financial situation and we let other priorities fade for the time being. My point is, the OP may have to let go of several of her "requirements", such as living near family, living on her own, living without roommates, owning a car, not having a degree... Letting things go isn't easy, when they are things we value and that help define us, but letting them go doesn't have to be permanent.

 

Venting is fine, too. Constant financial stress is rough.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Ahhh, HappyBear and your peace-making ways Brava on your first 3 paragraphs! I completely agree.

 

Ya lost me on the tin-foil hat thing, because I'm wearing one right now. lol.

 

Ok, being serious now - advocating for social change is a very important responsibility that each of us should be doing, even in small ways. That's my soapbox, and I'm never getting off of it.

 

I'll tell you what I taught my kids. You can affect greater, more powerful change from a position of strength. First duty, make yourself strong: emotionally, mentally, and financially. Then go save the world, or at least a small piece of it.

 

That's my take on it, and why I don't see encouraging someone to be angry when they're virtually powerless is helpful. I think the intentions were good. I appreciate that. But since that poster never claimed to be fighting for social justice herself...you see where I'm going with that.

 

I'm totally fine with disagreement. If everyone saw it my way, I'd be bored outta my mind!

 

At any rate, I hope we've given the OP some good ideas to consider, and that we haven't terrified her!

[happpybear]

^^Lol peace-out, HoH!

[Traveler27]

Looks like I hit a nerve there. That was not my intention; I am simply elucidating misconceptions about certain economic and financial realities facing the younger generation(s). Please do not confuse me with a previous poster's sentiments. I never made any reference to a (to quote you) "plot to keep people destitute", although there are certainly factors at play that have caused the economic disparities among COLLEGE EDUCATED adults from the Milleninal generation versus COLLEGE EDUCATED adults from previous generations. We can't have a spirited debate unless we are talking about the same thing. Those that did not receive a 4 year degree or higher are in an entirely different category, and not relevant to what I personally was discussing.

 

Credit cards are clearly a lot easier to obtain than in previous times, however, it is the Boomers and Gen X'ers who carry the highest amount of credit card debt. Remember, the 1980's was the age of plastic where consumers were charging everything from clothes to appliances, so in fact it was the Boomers and some early born Gen X'ers who were the first to take advantage of "living the dream" with the help of plastic, and still constitute a higher amount of credit card debt. Therefore, people from these age demographics DID NOT pay cash as a primary form of payment as you suggested. I am a late born Gen X'er and do not even own a credit card (with the exception of 2 department store cards) as I do not want to carry any further debt than I am already carrying for my student loans that will likely take me a very, very, very long time to pay off. I think it's a tad ignorant to make blanket assumptions about "this generation", particularly when those assumptions are wrong.

 

I am not as young as those you are referencing in your comments, but I still resent the implications and find them highly unfair and unjustified generalizations.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Quickly -

You did not hit a nerve.

The chain went something like this : one poster talked about the system keeping people down. I responded that it's always been hard for people, and then you responded in apparent support of the post I replied to, and then I gave more background on my own statement.

 

I'm part of the generation that started abusing plastic, so yes. I'm quite familiar with the change in thinking and consequently buying habits.

 

If you choose to feel resentful of my statements, I'm ok with that. But, laughing here, they are not assumptions, but observations

 

As for the generalizations comment, of course they are generalizations. My own children are exceptions to it. I don't know you, so I've no idea where you fit in with my observations, though it's interesting that you identify with it enough to argue it.

 

That's about all I have to say on it.

[Traveler27]

"...you responded in apparent support of the post I replied to..." I think you're confusing me with another poster again. I never once responded to one of your posts in support, since I disagree with nearly everything you've posted on this topic. I have responded to counter some of your "observations" on a very complex topic that can't be addressed by making sweeping, generalized statements. That helps no one. Further, I don't feel resentful of your statements. We are all entitled to express a point of view. However, branding an entire generation as "entitled" (whether it is just your opinion or you are stating it as a supposed fact) is rather disrespectful to all of the members here that belong to said generation, not to mention the fact it is blatantly untrue. I was resentful of your implication that the younger generations have an "incredible sense of entitlement". That's entirely unjustified, and uninformed.

[journeynow]

Please, let's not bring this thread to a halt by arguing and taking things personally. Can we bring the focus (and benefit) back to the OP, please?

[faraday]

Has anyone seen this article? link removed I love it, I see this all the time. I'm part of gen y...and I guess I'm lucky because my parents have always told me I'm NOT special ha! I always thought they were mean, all my friends parents doted on them and mine...did not. However, I grew up knowing that I needed to work ridiculously hard...and that I won't have anything super nice until I'm probably 50 (much like my parents).

 

I see this sense of entitlement though in many of my friends...they think they're above average and that they should be treated as such...when really...most of us are average. Most of us are unexceptional. It sucks.

 

 

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[scottlee]

It depends on how you spend your time and energy. If you work for someone, you'll be working until you die or start receiving Social Security. Even if you get married and have children, that's work, a lot of work. It take money to make money on Wall Street, so there's a "cart and horse" effect there too. That's the way our society is geared.

 

In my opinion, the only way to avoid working all your life is to work for yourself to the point that you can hire employees to work for you. If you have a good business model and it grows, you can either sell the business or find a way to let it sustain you with little effort.

 

So, you're still young and there is a way out of the workforce for you, it's simply a matter finding a way to make that work.

[Fudgie]

If you make enough money, you can just fine having an employer. Some of us are skilled workers and don't have an interest or ability in making products and selling them and making a business. Personally, I would never want to be self employed.

 

You can make it in or out of the workforce, depending on what you want to do and what your abilities are.

[faraday]

It depends on how you spend your time and energy. If you work for someone, you'll be working until you die or start receiving Social Security. Even if you get married and have children, that's work, a lot of work. It take money to make money on Wall Street, so there's a "cart and horse" effect there too. That's the way our society is geared.

 

In my opinion, the only way to avoid working all your life is to work for yourself to the point that you can hire employees to work for you. If you have a good business model and it grows, you can either sell the business or find a way to let it sustain you with little effort.

 

So, you're still young and there is a way out of the workforce for you, it's simply a matter finding a way to make that work.

 

I totally agree with this...but it's also a small percentage of people that can be self employed. You have to be very open to making calculated risks, uncertainty in pay, okay with start up costs and debt. It's not common to have a personality compatible with entrepreneurship. Most people are risk adverse...and that lends itself more to working for someone else. I actually just finished a 6 month entrepreneurship program, and more than half the people dropped out and got jobs before the end of it

 

Also, the joke in the course was that being your own boss is flexible- you get to pick which 12 hours of the day you work Not for everyone

 

 

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[Hell_On_Heels]

"...you responded in apparent support of the post I replied to..."" I think you're confusing me with another poster again. I never once responded to one of your posts in support, since I disagree with nearly everything you've posted on this topic.

 

...not my post....the post I replied to. I disagree with nearly everything you've posted too. Ironically, this means we have some common ground. lol. Let's move on, as JourneyNow requested.

[Traveler27]

I think a spirited debate on the predicaments facing people like the OP are very helpful to furthering the understanding of such issues, and helps educate people who are otherwise misinformed. By suggesting "moving on", while still inserting your own commentary, you have actually disregarded the very suggestion of the previous poster you're referring to. Happy to agree to disagree.

[superfan]

But I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting that the OP sit in a basement somewhere, wear a tinfoil hat and just complain--to use "the system" as an excuse to not "get on with things" . Everyone has suggested that she make career changes and try something new right now in order to get by....One can both hold down a job or two and also advocate for social change...This is what I think TVNerdgirl is suggesting--at least that's how I read it.

 

Yes, that was EXACTLY what I was suggesting...that the OP do whatever she can do to better her situation, but also to realize that her situation is NOT unique for this particular economic climate and that in order for things to truly change on a systemic level, we need to be aware of that and fight against it. Both can be done simultaneously.

 

Not sure either how some came to the impression that I have just 'accepted my fate', and that I am not practicing what I preach. Informing others about the social disparity is the first step to creating change. I DO advocate for social justice and change....but you can't shout into the wind. In order to change something, people first have to be aware that disparity exists.

 

This is what I am suggesting to the OP, and what I do for myself on a daily basis. You can only do so much from within the system...sometimes you need to work to reform it as well.