Is being modern unattractive to women?

[Rosti87]

Ummm... I don't work in IT, or anything even close to it.

 

It is the mindset....Let's keep our eye on the ball.

[Synerjist]

Your writing comes accross as, perhaps, arrogant/condescending in tone? Obviously you might be totally different in person. If you have the attitude "ok I'll deign to be a people pleaser at this populist type happy hour" and that attitude is reflected in what you say/do/your vibe you're going to turn off people who, if you gave them a chance might not be so "populist" after all.

 

My exchanges in online dating aren't the least bit arrogant. In fact, I may take extra interest in some part of a culture very peripheral to my particular center to try and share and appreciate a passion or interest.

 

Like I said before, I may show and interest in someone's liking of, say, choppers, and mention that I designed one for a company... though my favorite bikes are superbikes. It's always when I mention what I do like that I lose the thread.

 

Fact is, you can't be arrogant as an ID'er... a good one anyway. Your job is to accommodate a markets needs and/or desires. It's a massively humble art and you're constantly putting yourself in someone elses' shoes. Consumer decisions are personal decisions and that transcendends profession, art, and whathaveyou, IMHO. I wouldn't have this as a profession if it wasn't part of my persona to begin with. If anything, reading through womens' profiles online, I'm not the arrogant and brash one in a lot of cases.

[Synerjist]

It is the mindset....Let's keep our eye on the ball.

 

I would disagree here... maybe some overlap into certain subsets, but I'd say we're closer to marketing with regard to persona. I think too many people don't clearly understand the role.

[Rosti87]

I would disagree here... maybe some overlap into certain subsets, but I'd say we're closer to marketing with regard to persona. I think too many people don't clearly understand the role.

 

Sigh... I tried anyway. Good luck in your search for a SO.

[Batya33]

One more clarification on my use of the word 'presentation.' I have had candid conversations with guys that present themselves in this way. They are on the most part good hearts. Just lack mainstream social skills. If I ever needed anything they have always been generous and thoughtful. When I wanted to make a stand on an issue they would back me up. They tend to be very proud of what they do and because some parts of IT give architects/developers/designers a great deal of power and control over their work there is a pride there that can project into their personal lives. Maybe the hard tribulations of life haven't knocked them for six yet.

 

I don't think being kind and considerate and a good listener are "mainstream" social skills. I think they are simply playing nicely in the sandbox of the "what I learned in kindergarten" variety. I think most people (even so-called "mainstream" types) can tell when a person is good-hearted and means well even if the person behaves in an awkward way.

[Synerjist]

Sigh... I tried anyway. Good luck in your search for a SO.

 

This is what I mean though: You get to have an opinion, but I do not. I'm not even disagreeing with you entirely. I do believe there is some overlap in some segments. ID is just a "soft science" as some might call it and it requires a certain empathetic personality that doesn't usually line up with network admins or software engineers. In most cases, it's a just different personality type.

 

Perhaps building communication channels with women is just not having any viewpoint at all, and letting them be as opinionated as scathing as they want to be (and, trust me, many do)... but that somehow doesn't seem very two-way street to me. I've met so many women that just TRASH on me when I tell them what kind of music I play. I shrug it off, but emoting while opining nine-times-out-of-ten isn't coming from my end of the conversation.

[Rosti87]

I don't think being kind and considerate and a good listener are "mainstream" social skills. I think they are simply playing nicely in the sandbox of the "what I learned in kindergarten" variety. I think most people (even so-called "mainstream" types) can tell when a person is good-hearted and means well even if the person behaves in an awkward way.

 

You do understand that the digital age has skewed social skills a bit. What may have been fundamentals of social skills are not being reinforced like it was 20-odd years ago. I have a milennial gen child and I watch a percentage of her peers lack or have underdeveloped skills in this area. More and more of these people are entering the work world with no end in sight.

 

Only the next 10 to 20 years will indicate whether or not this is a mere blip or if this is a future state of society.

[Batya33]

You do understand that the digital age has skewed social skills a bit. What may have been fundamentals of social skills are not being reinforced like it was 20-odd years ago. I have a milennial gen child and I watch a percentage of her peers lack or have underdeveloped skills in this area. More and more of these people are entering the work world with no end in sight.

 

Only the next 10 to 20 years will indicate whether or not this is a mere blip or if this is a future state of society.

 

I do understand and I am not referring to those types of social skills. And, I don't agree that what I am referring to are not being reinforced. I lived in a major city for 43 years and am living in another major city for the last 5 and I have a 5-year old who is right now being taught social skills, and I am very in tune with what is being taught and reinforced these days. I do agree that certain social skills have changed given the digital age. I do not agree that kindness, consideration and thoughtfulness are reinforced any less. In fact with social media I think they are reinforced even more in certain situations. We are referring to different types and degrees of social skills.

[Rosti87]

I do understand and I am not referring to those types of social skills. And, I don't agree that what I am referring to are not being reinforced. I lived in a major city for 43 years and am living in another major city for the last 5 and I have a 5-year old who is right now being taught social skills, and I am very in tune with what is being taught and reinforced these days. I do agree that certain social skills have changed given the digital age. I do not agree that kindness, consideration and thoughtfulness are reinforced any less. In fact with social media I think they are reinforced even more in certain situations. We are referring to different types and degrees of social skills.

 

I think we are dealing with semantics again. I would love to go in more detail with you, but this is not our thread and I don't want to highjack it any further. You're welcome to PM me if you desire.

[Batya33]

Thanks and I don't think it's semantics in the least but that's ok, let's just agree to disagree!

[Synerjist]

...but this is not our thread and I don't want to highjack it any further. You're welcome to PM me if you desire.

 

I was about to say: You hear a lot of older people complaining about deteriorating social skills amongst younger people, but they end up being the WORST when it comes to online communication, and forum etiquette in particular.

[Dougie_D]

The reason why the conversations come to a dead end is because most women don't want to "chat" online. If they do, that's a bad sign anyways and when you ask them on a date they will most likely decline. Those type of conversations you are looking for will be on your first date in public. These girls want to be asked out. And asked out quickly. Ask the question but when they reply back don't ask them another question about that same subject. And if they ask you in the same topic go something like "hey, lets grab a drink tomorrow and I'll tell you all about it then?". Puts her on the spot.

[Batya33]

I was about to say: You hear a lot of older people complaining about deteriorating social skills amongst younger people, but they end up being the WORST when it comes to online communication, and forum etiquette in particular.

 

When I dated I cared about manners on line too but since I wasn't going to date on line I needed someone who had good (at least) social skills so that we would be compatible but also so I could feel comfortable involving him in my social life and extended family life, professional life, etc.

[Synerjist]

When I dated I cared about manners on line too but since I wasn't going to date on line I needed someone who had good (at least) social skills so that we would be compatible but also so I could feel comfortable involving him in my social life and extended family life, professional life, etc.

 

Frankly, I don't much concern myself with it. A good majority of the people I encounter online, or in the real world for that matter, aren't socially retarded to any significant degree. Like anything else, it's a bell curve and you'll come accross obnoxious people... or at the other end, hypersensitive people, who might be worse actually (picture that college-age girl who insists everything and everyone is "rude").

 

One COULD say that in online dating, the nearly ubiquitous lack of courtesy in replying to a concerted effort message is socially uncouth, but as I understand it, women get ten-thousand messages a day, and that they're mostly good people too overwhelmed to reply. I'll be the optimist and believe that.

[Batya33]

"One COULD say that in online dating, the nearly ubiquitous lack of courtesy in replying to a concerted effort message is socially uncouth"

 

I found that when I did reply politely that I was not interested I often received harassing/obnoxious messages in response. I always preferred no response to some canned response from a complete stranger. Silence =lack of interest.

[reinventmyself]

yah. . I think you are off the mark on this one.

Can't imagine dismissing a man interested in industrial design, music, tech, art & photography. . . ?

Dig a little deeper because I suspect this isn't an issue.

[Silverbirch]

I don't find you condescending or patronising, but I am sure I would feel intimidated.

[reinventmyself]

The reason why the conversations come to a dead end is because most women don't want to "chat" online. If they do, that's a bad sign anyways and when you ask them on a date they will most likely decline. Those type of conversations you are looking for will be on your first date in public. These girls want to be asked out. And asked out quickly. Ask the question but when they reply back don't ask them another question about that same subject. And if they ask you in the same topic go something like "hey, lets grab a drink tomorrow and I'll tell you all about it then?". Puts her on the spot.

 

I agree with this . . .If a man gets overly chatty online or texting I lose interest. So many seem to find an electronic relationship more compelling than a real one. I am thrilled when what appears to be decent guy cuts to the chase and wants to meet or talk on the phone.

[jjkk]

 

I found that when I did reply politely that I was not interested I often received harassing/obnoxious messages in response. I always preferred no response to some canned response from a complete stranger. Silence =lack of interest.

 

Ditto this! Only one of several times in politely letting someone know I wasn't interested did I get a respectful "thanks for letting me know" response, the others were some sort of mini tantrum via email. Not worth it! So I began the silent method.

[reinventmyself]

Ditto this! Only one of several times in politely letting someone know I wasn't interested did I get a respectful "thanks for letting me know" response, the others were some sort of mini tantrum via email. Not worth it! So I began the silent method.

 

Glad you said this. . so many profiles state how much they want a response of some sort, even if it's a no. They implore you `to do the right thing' and/or `respond respectfully'

 

Get told off viscously once or twice, yah. .I'll never do that again.

[Synerjist]

Glad you said this. . so many profiles state how much they want a response of some sort, even if it's a no. They implore you `to do the right thing' and/or `respond respectfully'

 

Get told off viscously once or twice, yah. .I'll never do that again.

 

It's a shame that the outliers exhibiting bad behavior would drive people to distrust the median. Another fine example of the d-bags ruining it for the rest of us.

 

It's definitely not a helpful scenario as the initiator, trying to get an idea of what a guy like me can do right to get more than a date a year in life. I don't know if I'm messaging dead profiles or what. In that regard, while Datehookup was an awful site full of camwhore scammers, they DID have a read status for messages. That said, while some went never read... A LOT got 'read-deleted', most without me even getting a profile view.