2nd chances....

[Dougie_D]

This is really for the girls but I guess guys can answer to, but:

 

If someone approaches you that you are not interested in (physical, emotionally, etc...) you'll most likely reject them the first time. Was there ever a 2nd time they approach you and you didn't reject them? Length of time doesn't matter. It could be the same day or over a span of years.

 

I'd love to hear the reason why you rejected them first and then not rejected them 2nd.

 

Thanks!

[Xylitol]

i cannot imagine it, if you dislike them the first time what would make you like them the second time?

[MsAdorkable]

I think the only time this has ever happened to me was when the unattractive aspect of said guy was changeable. Like the guy who's cute and fun to hang out with, but completely immature and has no future plans. Perhaps later on he gets it together, figures out what he wants in life, and then is working toward that so the 2nd time around he might be a better fit for me.

[Sportster2005]

This is really for the girls but I guess guys can answer to, but:

 

If someone approaches you that you are not interested in (physical, emotionally, etc...) you'll most likely reject them the first time. Was there ever a 2nd time they approach you and you didn't reject them? Length of time doesn't matter. It could be the same day or over a span of years.

 

I'd love to hear the reason why you rejected them first and then not rejected them 2nd.

 

Thanks!

 

No woman I've ever been interested in has given me a second chance. You get one chance per woman, per lifetime. Lucky for us guys there's a couple billion more women out there.

[wsim]

You only get one chance in most case, as very seldom will a women give the same guy a shot who was previously turned down or rejected.

 

No women has given me a second shot, one and done. Actually, my brother's soon to be wife had decided to give him a second shot after he had given up on her and the rest is history.

[tiredofvampires]

I've warmed up to men over time that I was not originally attracted to.

 

But it's not a transition that can happen from Encounter #1 to Encounter #2. You haven't presented enough of anything new to start liking with so little to go on.

 

So again -- you'll need to get to know women. Someone's going to have to warm up to you, Dougie, as an individual with qualities she wants to keep enjoying, because at the outset you do not provide much for a woman that stands out.

 

There will be no shortcuts or fast tracks to scoring that will work for you.

 

I do not believe you will ever be able to turn a single encounter, nor a repeat identical to it, into something.

[Dougie_D]

I've warmed up to men over time that I was not originally attracted to.

 

But it's not a transition that can happen from Encounter #1 to Encounter #2. You haven't presented enough of anything new to start liking with so little to go on.

 

So again -- you'll need to get to know women. Someone's going to have to warm up to you, Dougie, as an individual with qualities she wants to keep enjoying, because at the outset you do not provide much for a woman that stands out.

 

There will be no shortcuts or fast tracks to scoring that will work for you.

 

I do not believe you will ever be able to turn a single encounter, nor a repeat identical to it, into something.

 

It's hard to have a woman warm up to you when you only encounter them once and already been rejected. And even if I do see them more than once, they usually put me in the friendzone. For the guys that you warmed up to, how often did you get to see them and did that guy already kind of make move on you?

[Dougie_D]

You only get one chance in most case, as very seldom will a women give the same guy a shot who was previously turned down or rejected.

 

No women has given me a second shot, one and done. Actually, my brother's soon to be wife had decided to give him a second shot after he had given up on her and the rest is history.

 

So your brother's soon to be wife made the first initial contact after he had given up the first time?

[tiredofvampires]

For the guys that you warmed up to, how often did you get to see them and did that guy already kind of make move on you?

 

I had to see them repeatedly. Over weeks, even months (to see and appreciate things I didn't before.) My second-to-last boyfriend I met through a shared activity group (semi professional). It was a weekly gathering, and I got to know him somewhat casually in conversation, and he started to send "I'm interested" vibes. He didn't hit on me right away, and that felt both appropriate to the environment and also a good way for me to feel out my level of attraction to him as we continued to banter. I was not entirely attracted to him physically, but I was getting enough into his personality that by the time he actually made a move by asking me out to have a meal with him, I was feeling a shift (it was several weeks in of weekly interaction). He was a bit pushy after that date, which I actually told him was putting me off, and he backed off a bit. I really, really found his personality very attractive, so I was not totally friendzoning him. It's not that he was physically UNattractive to me (which usually won't lead anywhere), but he was definitely "not my type." After continuing to hang out (it may have even been a couple months), I started to feel more "spark." And eventually, a full spark. When we were going strong, he was the hottest guy on earth to me. But you can see how gradual that was.

 

He was one of my longest relationships. I stress that he was just friendly and open, without being assuming and making a move too soon. Contrary to all this popular wisdom about friendzoning, his lack of pushiness at this stage worked in his favor. It bought him time for me to warm up (though he wasn't trying to calculate it that way, I doubt.) We saw eachother weekly for several weeks to build up enough rapport where he asked me out. And one thing, looking back, that I liked about it was that he didn't worry about being "friendzoned" (a word that didn't exist then, 10 years ago). He didn't try to make moves just to avoid being friendzoned -- that would have looked like a giant agenda playing out.

 

That's just one story, but it's just the most significant one of several that have worked out that way for me.

 

If a woman likes you over time, you'll have a chance to be considered non-friendzone material. Your trying to force it isn't going to make you more likeable and dateable.

 

But you have to spend repeated time and have convos together, and that all comes down to shared activities to bond over.

 

You gotta do that. And this gets back to all your other threads. You need to find situations where you can get to know a woman, and not count on cold hits. IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO COME DOWN TO THAT FOR YOU.

 

If a woman doesn't like you at a first encounter and there is no way for her to build substance from the first encounter, no, you won't get another chance.

[tiredofvampires]

I also want to add that if a woman doesn't like you at first, that's different from liking you but not feeling a spark. If in the example I gave of my bf I had disliked him in the beginning AND wasn't attracted to him, that would have never worked.

 

It was only because I enjoyed his company from the beginning that he had a chance.

 

That certainly doesn't mean that if I just hang around a guy long enough that I like, I'll eventually feel a spark. Some guys are nothing but platonic material to me, no matter how nice they are.

 

My point is that you won't even be able to get in the door if you don't get to know a woman, for a spark to GROW.

[Capricorn3]

I've warmed up to men over time that I was not originally attracted to..

Me too. My husband "chased me" for almost 20 months and I rejected him every single time. Eventually I gave in and went on a date with him and we've been history ever since. That was a lifetime ago, lol.

[tiredofvampires]

Me too. My husband "chased me" for almost 20 months and I rejected him every single time. Eventually I gave in and went on a date with him and we've been history ever since. That was a lifetime ago, lol.

 

Bless those men who know how to balance self-respect with a little stubbornness!! It's a fine balancing act. Not desperate. Just bringing the goods long enough for me to go, oh...yeah, that's good. lol

[Dougie_D]

It's interesting that the women who say they gave a 2nd chance because they had to warm up with the guy was in a time where social media didn't exist. I'm wondering if there are any stories like that in the modern age? I'm starting to feel like that "warming up" only works when there were less options or suitors.

[tiredofvampires]

I gave one example from my past that occurred before the rise of social media, but I can tell you that I didn't feel any kind of scarcity compelling me to want to investigate this guy as an option. I was simply attracted to him on some levels (lively personality, talents, kindness) and interested in continuing to engage. He was worth giving a chance for his own sake.

 

And since then, I've done the warming up thing, and social media already existed. But they were not situations that went far for other reasons. Today, I would have the very same MO, nothing's changed. Though I don't don't do much with social media, so I'm living in the modern age but it's not affecting my MO now.

 

I'd still give a guy that I was on the fence about a chance -- that's probably more a function of my ability to allow for something to surprise me than anything about supply via social media (and I don't even think it has to do with supply, period, because if I kind of like someone, I usually like to see where it goes on its own merits, I'm curious that way).

 

Due to the ADHD nature of social media, all the more reason to be a little more traditional when it comes to meeting people, talking to people, feeling them out, getting to know them, etc. GETTING TO KNOW PEOPLE -- like it used to be, because that's the only way people can really make a connection that's real, whatever age you're living in. IMO.

 

YOUR action plan simply has to be getting to know women over more than one/two drinks on a couple of separate occasions.

[Dougie_D]

It has to be a two way street. It's hard to get to know someone when they purposely try to get rid of you. Also, I can get to know someone but if they never take the time to know your interests, that girl is not going to ever like you.

[tiredofvampires]

It has to be a two way street. It's hard to get to know someone when they purposely try to get rid of you. Also, I can get to know someone but if they never take the time to know your interests, that girl is not going to ever like you.

 

Well, as I've said billions of times to you, I don't think you're putting yourself in conducive situations or environments for the kind of interaction I'm talking about. I've also said billions of times that you have social skills-building to have to work on with the help of a professional.

 

But yeah, you're right -- if someone's actively trying to get rid of you and has zero interest in you, that's not going to be a success.

[Dougie_D]

Well, as I've said billions of times to you, I don't think you're putting yourself in conducive situations or environments for the kind of interaction I'm talking about. I've also said billions of times that you have social skills-building to have to work on with the help of a professional.

 

But yeah, you're right -- if someone's actively trying to get rid of you and has zero interest in you, that's not going to be a success.

 

I went to a 4th of July pool party with a bunch of co-workers and other random people. I tried mingling with girls but none were interested. I got turned down quicker there then ever before. That's probably the most socializing place to meet girls. I'm not doing anything creepy either at least I don't think so. I usually engage with these lines and I get positive response. Then I try to keep the conversation going, but 9/10 the girl thinks I'm just trying to hit on them and not be friendly. I don't get it.

 

- Are you having a good time so far?

- So how do you (someone I know)?

- What brings you out for the occasion?

 

You can tell when girls are not into you in first couple of conversation.

Dealbreaker #1 - They don't even ask your name. If a girl is into you, she will ASK your name.If she doesn't, then you have ZERO chance.

Dealbreaker #2 - If you are with a friend, they will bring that person up or try to get them more involve with conversation.

Dealbreaker #3 - If they are with a friend, they'll look for an excuse to "go to the bathroom" with them or "smoke" with them but will act polite towards you. Girls can hold it just like guys. If they really need to go and like you, they will make you hold something for them (like a drink, their phone, or even purse). You get my point on that.

Dealkbreaker #4 - The boyfriend card. Doesn't matter if it's the truth or not, it's the ultimate sign she doesn't like you or will never be involved with you. The ONLY time you have a chance is when she is putting her boyfriend down or complaining about him...but even then, she already put you in the friendzone.

 

I'm sure there is more, but it's pretty obvious.

[Rosti87]

Dougie if I'm at a coworkers party and a guy is starting up a conversation that gives me the sense that he is 'hitting' on me without carrying a basic form of communication I'd run too.

 

The fact that you expect a woman that has never met you before to leave something personal of hers behind while she goes to the restroom indicates that you don't understand basic boundaries around relating to others.

 

I don't even think I would leave my purse behind with a guy I just started dating.

[journeynow]

Dougie, I give you a lot of credit for working to understand and improve your interaction with people.

 

In my younger years I was much shyer, but these days am pretty comfortable in groups and social situations. Take my feedback with a grain of salt, but I have some thoughts on your post.

 

- Are you having a good time so far?

- What brings you out for the occasion?

 

These 2 questions would make me feel a bit squeamish in the setting you described. The first question is kind of a dead-end question, the answer is yes or no, and it puts the person on the spot if they are not having a good time, so would be awkward. If you were the host of the party, I might understand why you would ask me, but from a stranger, no. That may just be me. The third question at a 4th of July pool party should be self-evident. I'm there for the 4th of July pool party. Another dead-end question. I have been asked your second question, how do I know the host/hostess, that seems to be a rather common ice-breaker and can get an interesting discussion going in which you learn a bit about each other.

 

You can tell when girls are not into you in first couple of conversation.

Dealbreaker #1 - They don't even ask your name. If a girl is into you, she will ASK your name.If she doesn't, then you have ZERO chance.

Dealbreaker #2 - If you are with a friend, they will bring that person up or try to get them more involve with conversation.

Dealbreaker #3 - If they are with a friend, they'll look for an excuse to "go to the bathroom" with them or "smoke" with them but will act polite towards you. Girls can hold it just like guys. If they really need to go and like you, they will make you hold something for them (like a drink, their phone, or even purse). You get my point on that.

Dealkbreaker #4 - The boyfriend card. Doesn't matter if it's the truth or not, it's the ultimate sign she doesn't like you or will never be involved with you. The ONLY time you have a chance is when she is putting her boyfriend down or complaining about him...but even then, she already put you in the friendzone.

 

I'm sure there is more, but it's pretty obvious.

 

#1, depends. You may be right, but she may be shy. But you can ASK her for her name and INTRODUCE yourself.

#2, really? Why should they be rude to your friend?

#3, really? People DO need to go and do not leave anything with someone they just met. NEVER a drink, I've heard, that's a basic safety issue since the arrival of the date-rate drug. A woman's purse goes to the bathroom with her (I won't go into detail why) and her phone should, too. These things are personal, private, and valuable.

#4, correct. If she has boyfriend, even if she complains, pay attention to that. Doesn't mean you can't talk and be friendly.

[Sportster2005]

Bless those men who know how to balance self-respect with a little stubbornness!! It's a fine balancing act. Not desperate. Just bringing the goods long enough for me to go, oh...yeah, that's good. lol

'

You and Capricorn3 bring a fascinating perspective. I've always believed you get one shot and that's it. I've heard far off distant tales about men who persist and get their muse. More often though I hear about the guy who can't take a hint and becomes a pest, or worse. I DO believe that building a rapport is better than coming on guns a blazing. Where we differ is once you've taken your shot and it doesn't work it's time to move on. I've also never really felt compelled to try too hard for too long. I resign myself to just moving on and realizing there are lots of women out there. So I've never tried being persistent. And i'm not sure I even know how???

 

And until recently this has worked fine for me. But I'm finding it hard to "give up" on an interest. I really should start another thread instead of hijacking this one.

 

 

Dougie, I would like to leave you with one thought. You may find some success by caring less. If you're always on the edge, always in hunting mode it may come accross as desperate. Women can smell it a mile away and it will kill any chance you have.

[wsim]

So your brother's soon to be wife made the first initial contact after he had given up the first time?

 

They went on a couple of casual dates previously, but she didn't really keep in contact with him afterwards and instead of chasing, he thought it wasn't meant to be. After several months, she asked if he would like to go for a bike ride during the summer and they developed chemistry and feelings for each other.

 

I consider him quite fortunate, as second chances are rare.

[happpybear]

I don't want to hijack--but I totally agree with what ToV and Cap wrote, I know MANY examples of dudes that were persistent (not creepy persistent though) and are now married to some of my friends. These women did not really like these guys at all when they met them initially, and only considered these guys friends, and in one instance, the guy who persisted is the SHYEST most timid guy I have ever met in my life...but he knew what he wanted I guess and went after it in his own slow and persistent way..they have been together for 13 years and recently married.

 

I have said this before on this forum--the "friendzone" doesn't really exist for many women, including myself, and I bet many women prefer a slower friends-first type of approach, I know for me I would prefer this type of approach at this point in my life.

 

 

 

I really agree with this, dougie just work on talking to women without expecting anything or having an agenda, so just talking in a friendly way and not to get a date, because I suspect you are coming off as desperate.

[greta96]

It's happened to me with my last ex.

The night I met him, after chatting for a while, I thought he was ok but I was not interested in dating him, I felt no attraction, but since he seemed like a decent guy I did want to keep him as a friend.

He changed my mind by texting me daily for almost a month. Not in an annoying way, this is very important to note. Just one text mid-day, asking how my day was going and telling me a fun, upbeat little snippet of how his day was going. This sort of forced me get to know him a bit more, like him more and eventually I dated him.

 

However it needs to be said that even though he managed to change my mind about dating him, it never became a serious relationship, and I ended it a couple months later because I still wasn't really feeling it. So I guess you could say his persistence worked, but only temporarily.

[Dougie_D]

If she is interested in conversation she will say NO and bla, bla, bla or YES and bla, bla, bla. Doesn't matter if the original question seems like a dead end question.

 

Do you have any better openings? And actually the one I used was "So how do you know my co-worker"? I use those lines for different settings anyways. When it's a bunch of girls in the group, I use the "is there a big occasion tonight or something?". I usually get "my friends birthday party" and start from there.

 

If a guy introduces himself first, he won't know if the girl is interested early on. If she's interested she will ask no matter how shy she is. It's the easiest question in the book. Or she will introduce herself.

 

When a girl changes the conversation and starts to be flirty with your friend, you know it's over. Or when she is engaging questions about him. If it's casual conversation, then that's fine, but if she purposely asks your friend to carry on a conversation, it's over.

 

Many girls have told me "can you watch my stuff until I get back?" many times.

[chitown9]

I just would like to note that you appear mature in your picture, Dougie. I say that in a good way. I would like to offer a suggestion regarding your name, Dougie. Maybe Doug would be better. Maybe people will look upon you with more respect. The reason that I suggest it is because I changed my name as I became older. It just seemed to be a more appropriate name for my age. chi