2nd chances....

[Jean-Luc]

They went on a couple of casual dates previously, but she didn't really keep in contact with him afterwards and instead of chasing, he thought it wasn't meant to be. After several months, she asked if he would like to go for a bike ride during the summer and they developed chemistry and feelings for each other.

 

I consider him quite fortunate, as second chances are rare.

 

Indeed they are. I've only been given more than one chance once in my life and it didn't work out anyway(I actually couldn't go up and talk to this girl after the second time we spoke when she made a joke about wanting to see me get cut up with a knife). I was given multiple chances by her to come up and speak but really I should have moved on after she made the "joke". I think those kinds of things are the reason why I have such a problem with going up and speaking to women(multiple times of going up and speaking and something goes wrong) but that's another topic for another time.

 

I've noticed other people who make minor mistakes when getting to know someone or dating them and that's all it takes for it to end. Second chances are so rare and I think only come from when the person either originally liked the person to start off with or after its been a while and anything that happened before is for the most part long forgotten and one or both parties have changed.

 

Which makes me want to ask...why do most people only give one chance to others most of the time?

[Jean-Luc]

I want to ask what is the difference between persistent and creepy persistent? I have a hard time with this one since I think I'm very inexperienced(26 years old and never had sex or a date or even really a kiss) and really come off the wrong way sometimes to women without meaning to. I mean I know there are some really obvious ones but sometimes it seems like there is a really fine line between the two depending on who you're dealing with and the circumstances.

[happpybear]

I want to ask what is the difference between persistent and creepy persistent? I have a hard time with this one since I think I'm very inexperienced(26 years old and never had sex or a date or even really a kiss) and really come off the wrong way sometimes to women without meaning to. I mean I know there are some really obvious ones but sometimes it seems like there is a really fine line between the two depending on who you're dealing with and the circumstances.

 

I will refer you to this thread which has suggestions

 

 

 

It is indeed a fine line, too much attention could turn you into an annoying fruit fly at best, and creepy at worst. Too aloof will make you come off as inconsistent at best, and uninterested at worst.

[Dougie_D]

Honest question: If girls don't give 2nd chances, then how does a guy "warm up" to you? Because there has to be a time when the guy eventually asks you out or gives you the impression he likes you.

[John John]

Honest question: If girls don't give 2nd chances, then how does a guy "warm up" to you? Because there has to be a time when the guy eventually asks you out or gives you the impression he likes you.

 

I think happpybear answered this above.

 

From my standpoint...it is very hard to get out of the friendzone...but not impossible. You need to be the girl's friend, but be a little aloof and mysterious. And you also have to know how to flirt very subtlety and smoothly. This way, the girl knows your underlying feelings. And while you're doing all of this? Live your life and keep pursuing your goals and interests.

[Dougie_D]

I think happpybear answered this above.

 

From my standpoint...it is very hard to get out of the friendzone...but not impossible. You need to be the girl's friend, but be a little aloof and mysterious. And you also have to know how to flirt very subtlety and smoothly. This way, the girl knows your underlying feelings. And while you're doing all of this? Live your life and keep pursuing your goals and interests.

 

From my understanding you can't be a girl's friend if you are little aloof and mysterious. That's more like an acquaintance. My goals and interests is to get laid. I have nothing else to worry about or care about really. My musical goals are over.

[John John]

Not true. You can do both. You can be her friend, but you can't be a "doormat" and be there whenever she calls you. And when you're actually physically WITH her (or in the same vicinity as her)....you have to be friendly, but not TOO friendly. It's hard to describe...but if you can master this art form....you will find that you'll be able to straddle the line between a woman's friend/something more.

 

If you're just looking to get laid, I would recommend you build up your confidence and work on your body language (and meet new women - don't lose friends over this). I actually learned some of this from Thorshammer. The first night he and I got drinks, he noticed that I was hunched over and really listening to him (when I'm with other guys and just chilling, that's how I am). He bestowed upon me that, even if not talking to women directly (they're always watching and observing us, Dougie!), you have to sit back and take up a lot of space. And just act like you don't have a care in the world, or that you HAVE a woman at home! He totally called me on this, and it stuck with me.

[Dougie_D]

Honestly, I think it's body language but things I can't really control. For example, my tone of my voice and how I talk. I had to take speech therapy because of my hearing when I was younger. Words with the letter R, can be hard for me. Like the word "roll". Sometimes it might sound like "whroll" to people, especially if I've been drinking. I also think I just have that "natural creepy smile". I went through a bunch of orthodontist procedures to get my teeth, jaw, etc... to be like this. There's nothing I can do, since "my bite" works for me. They would have to break my jaw and re-allign if I want to go with any more procedures.

 

And you can't build up confidence when people are constantly rejecting you.

[blueidealist24]

I was going to once, sort of.. after running into a guy from high school I'd gone out on one date with, but turned down for a second date, I was going to go on a date with him but then I ended up cancelling since I remembered why I didn't want to be with him the first time. Although that isn't exactly what you're saying, I guess, since I initially did go on the one date with him.

[blueidealist24]

Honestly, I think it's body language but things I can't really control. For example, my tone of my voice and how I talk. I had to take speech therapy because of my hearing when I was younger. Words with the letter R, can be hard for me. Like the word "roll". Sometimes it might sound like "whroll" to people, especially if I've been drinking. I also think I just have that "natural creepy smile". I went through a bunch of orthodontist procedures to get my teeth, jaw, etc... to be like this. There's nothing I can do, since "my bite" works for me. They would have to break my jaw and re-allign if I want to go with any more procedures.

 

And you can't build up confidence when people are constantly rejecting you.

 

You are making a weird facial expression in that avatar.. the pic in your profile of you with the orange shirt is MUCH better.

[Dougie_D]

You are making a weird facial expression in that avatar.. the pic in your profile of you with the orange shirt is MUCH better.

 

Wow..that sucks really bad then. The orange shirt is a forced/posed smile. My avatar now is more natural. It's what I look like when I'm thinking.

[happpybear]

Wow..that sucks really bad then. The orange shirt is a forced/posed smile. My avatar now is more natural. It's what I look like when I'm thinking.

 

 

Dougie, I wouldn't get too hung up on what one photo looks like. Both your avatar, and profile photo look forced because they were forced, you were posing with intent in both shots--forcing a facial expression is going to make you look weird because it isn't natural.

 

I'm sure in a candid photo you probably look different. Besides, a picture is a single moment in time captured in a split second. How you look in any given pic is how you looked for that one split second. Then your face changed and you looked different after. The point is that peoples faces are dynamic. Have you ever seen yourself on video? That is probably a better indication of how you look.

 

Aside from all of this, I think the problem here is not actually how you look (the things beyond your control), rather the fact that you think there is a problem with how you look. Thinking that you are ugly will make you believe that your ugly. You have been told this before--it all comes back to your lack of confidence.

 

I can honestly tell you that you are not a bad looking guy, imo. I know a guy that is..well...not the best looking dude (think a shorter, less attractive Jack Black, you are far better looking that this guy). He is married to a women, they are in an open marriage and this same dude has a GF. So this one dude (that is not by any means someone you would call "hot") is currently in two relationships with lovely women. He has confidence in himself and doesn't get hung-up on his looks. His personality is awesome, if he was single (and not into open relationships) I would date him because he is fun to be around.

[tiredofvampires]

I don't think it's a matter of confidence.

 

My goals and interests is to get laid. I have nothing else to worry about or care about really.

It's a matter of, you say you want to get laid, but women generally want to sleep with a guy under two circumstances:

 

1. He's so masterfully and powerfully charming, intelligent, and clearly able to read/get women, he seduces them; women are attracted to men who have a lot of facility in reading cues -- something you lack in spades

2. Woman gets to know guy who seems interesting, attractive, and fun enough, sharing common interests and good conversations over time, to start desiring a deeper relationship with him, which would lead to sex -- something you're not willing to do in the appropriate environments

 

I don't think it's within your makeup to be #1, and you're not doing the required things (see 7 years worth of threads) to get #2.

 

Barring those ways to get in the door, this is what a woman will see: a guy who is making idle, run-of-the-mill, unexciting small talk so he can get laid, and chances are, he's not even being picky. So you're sending that message, and in the absence of 1 or 2, women will be inspired to leave because they're smart enough to get that cheap memo. Some will be polite even if they see through to your sex agenda (because they're so used to it, it's tiring to get annoyed every time), others will be less so (because they're so used to it, they're tired of being polite).

 

Women can read "My goals and interests are to get laid" before he's even close enough to be audibly heard. They see it coming as it saunters over, drink in hand. And the reflex is, "Uh oh. This is going to be deadly." Women brace themselves in cases like this, so your lack of interest in the right approaches probably doesn't even get you Chance #1.

[blueidealist24]

FWIW, since happpybear mentioned video, I thought the video of you that you posted a couple of months ago (or maybe a bit longer than that by now.. the one in which someone was trying to get you to swallow a pill or something?) looked fine. You looked like a normal guy.

[Dougie_D]

I like your posts, but I feel like you may be "out of the loop" with some of these girls. Social media has really crushed the basic approach of meeting women. Now, women are becoming more and more aggressive. If a guy comes forward wanting sex, but the girl is not interested at all, then of course she will have her guard up. #2 is something that takes too much time for women now. And honestly, you probably need to put "attractive" in the #1 slot. They are either attractive to you or not within for the first time they see you..not even striking a conversation (online dating, tinder, etc..) Most women have sex no later than the 3rd date according to my friends that date a lot.

 

About reading cues: I can read cues just fine. The problem is that most of these "cues" are in some sort of rejection. Sometimes I purposely ignore them to maybe see if I can still "win" her over.

But after this thread and past experiences, I know that I should give up on trying to fight it and move on quicker the very first instant I get rejected. I like to give myself at least a chance for myself, you know?

Give me ONE example of a cue that I've missed that was not some form of rejection. I never get the good ones.

[Dougie_D]

If people keep constantly rejecting me without having a conversation (online dating, tinder, etc..) and having family and friends tell me I need to work on the "physical" aspect of myself, then how would you feel? No one gives me any sort of validation that I'm not ugly in some way. And when I get a new haircut, get new clothes, or even lose some weight, I feel very good inside. And confident...but then someone, somehow finds a way to insult me... For example: I came in looking snazzy, but then my co-workers were like, you need to shave. Or one time they said, "don't you have an iron? " It's like NOTHING is good enough. And why should I feel good to satisfy 1 person for my entire life. It takes 2 people to fall in love. NEVER 1.

 

About that guy you know: I'm wondering if in his youthful days, he was much "cuter" or at least never had people say he was ugly to his face or some type of hateful bullying. I'm 33 and I can EASILY say that the first day of pre-school I had girls "scared of me" and call me a "monster". In middle school, 2 girls called my house. They left a message saying that they were "some girl" saying they thought I was cute and hot.. but I knew the girls voices. It was the same girls that teased me throughout that year for various reasons... (later in highschool they apologized) But anyways, to top off the fact that I knew it was a prank, my father told me "some girl likes you and you don't want to talk to her? what's the matter with you?"... when I tried to explain it was a joke he ignored me.

[Rosti87]

The above is why you need to go to a therapist. To work on changing these tapes you have in your head from your childhood trauma. I acknowledge your physical challenges but you also have internal challenges that you need to overcome as well. Until you stop imprisoning your mind and soul you will continue to create threads here asking the same question over and over.

[Dougie_D]

The above is why you need to go to a therapist. To work on changing these tapes you have in your head from your childhood trauma. I acknowledge your physical challenges but you also have internal challenges that you need to overcome as well. Until you stop imprisoning your mind and soul you will continue to create threads here asking the same question over and over.

 

Therapy might help me forget and dwell on the past, but I highly doubt that any therapy is going to help me get into a relationship or help me get laid. I'm in a bad mood because I know I'm not "desired" by anyone. That's the probably the closest thing to death mentally. I'm not the one constantly rejecting myself. Most people who go to therapy have a hard time discussing their feelings and inner truth. I don't at all. I remember one therapist was like "slow down..let's start with one thing at a time". That was really annoying. It seemed like he wanted to milk the clock.

[Fudgie]

One of the reasons why you are not desired is because of your attitude, which is partly affected by your bad experiences. A therapist isn't going to help you find a partner, only you can do that, but a therapist can help you work through your issues which will make you more desirable.

 

No girl can "save" you, Dougie.

[Dougie_D]

One of the reasons why you are not desired is because of your attitude, which is partly affected by your bad experiences. A therapist isn't going to help you find a partner, only you can do that, but a therapist can help you work through your issues which will make you more desirable.

 

No girl can "save" you, Dougie.

 

So why wasn't I desired when I was feeling good about myself that day? Or going in with a better attitude? It takes a girl literally 5 seconds to know if they will sleep with him or not. Everything else is just excuses for women not to admit it.

[Fudgie]

So why wasn't I desired when I was feeling good about myself that day? Or going in with a better attitude? It takes a girl literally 5 seconds to know if they will sleep with him or not. Everything else is just excuses for women not to admit it.

 

You are down on yourself and the world and women can sense that from a mile away. It takes me very little time to determine if a guy is lacking in confidence and has a self esteem issue. You are probably projecting a "PLEASE, PLEASE LIKE ME. PLEASE. I AM DESPERATE" vibe and I can guarantee it's turning girls off from the get-go.

[Doc Blaze]

So why wasn't I desired when I was feeling good about myself that day? Or going in with a better attitude? It takes a girl literally 5 seconds to know if they will sleep with him or not. Everything else is just excuses for women not to admit it.

 

How can you make this kind of assumption when you cant even understand the basics of talking to women?

[sadpuppie]

For me no, if he doesnt do it for me from the start their is usually no way he could do it afterwards.

In some cases their might a slight be a chance (but only in my mind if its someone from the same group and warming up to him) and im thinking hmm...maybe i should have, but in reality as im more of a chemistry and the first vibe kind of person i wake up and realize their is still actually nothing their from my side.

[Dougie_D]

How can you make this kind of assumption when you cant even understand the basics of talking to women?

 

I have no idea how you got this idea I can't talk to women. I strike up more conversations with random people than anybody I know. I'm that guy that everyone needs to approach the group of women because everyone is super shy. It's that stupid. I'm tired of it actually.

 

Now, "making the moves" is where I have problems with. I'm not a physical person. I didn't hug a girl until I was 16 or so. Not because I didn't want to, but because whenever I got close to a girl they would say I had "coodies" and run away. Like touching a girl's shoulder or put my hand on her leg feels VERY uncomfortable to me. I don't know when the best time to do those certain things.

[Rosti87]

Now, "making the moves" is where I have problems with. I'm not a physical person. I didn't hug a girl until I was 16 or so. Not because I didn't want to, but because whenever I got close to a girl they would say I had "coodies" and run away. Like touching a girl's shoulder or put my hand on her leg feels VERY uncomfortable to me. I don't know when the best time to do those certain things.

 

I think the above is what Doc is referring to. 'Talking' is not the only part of talking to women. It is the whole presentation and lack of self esteem is part of it.