Is it possible for people NOT to be turned off by too much contact/interest?

[Lonewing]

The job and your schooling are tandem, you do well in school and you'll land the job. Your true interests, though, seems to be in relationships...and prestige. You like shiny things! Hmmm...just a small thought experiment, if Z was a cashier in a supermarket, or a server in a restaurant, or an electrician just aspiring to retire in thirty years, would you still be as interested in him as you are now? Just a small little rhetorical experiment for you to ponder on your own.

 

I didn't say career and money aren't important to you, I simply said they are less important to you than relationships. As in, if I told you to choose from basket A or basket B, where A is career and money and B was relationships, you'd pick B. If I told you to choose between living with your man or a prestigious job in Paris, you'd choose your man. If you had to choose between an anniversary dinner or a client meeting, you'd pick the anniversary dinner. There's an important revelation there you may want to look into as you move forward with your career or at least a guide towards what kinds of jobs you might want to pursue within your chosen field. For starters, you may want to look closer at the flexibility, mobility [regional availability] and hour requirements.

 

If you proceed with Z [or any Business first-type], you'll have to remember this going in. There are going to be nights where he drops bombshells like this, where he says "I'm sorry, I can't pick up the kids because I'm have a meeting," or "I can't make our anniversary tonight, there's this really important client in town and my firm is counting on me to impress him." I realize this is miles and tracks ahead in the future, but it's something you should think about now so you start training your emotions for it today. If you don't, you're going to go full nuclear and it's not going to be pretty for anyone!

 

I'm going to take the counter position to Batya's on being a Woman and being a Professional, and I say this standing on two sociology studies I keep on my shelf. You're absolutely right, it IS hard for women to focus on both career and love, especially once you throw in the child factor. Each child will take around 12-18 months out of your professional life, and even after they are running underfoot, someone has to be flexible enough to drop everything when they get sick or get in trouble at school or any of the "life" things happen. In the distant past, women had the luxury of being able to choose Mom as a career field; even when I was a kid, though, this was changing thanks to things like falling wages, increasing budget "needs" and of course, the surprise divorce. Now you have to fit it all in, and it doesn't fit easy. Part of life is discovering just how much will fit, and making the most of our time while we have it.

 

One study I read basically showed that higher wages are a cumulative effect [the more you work, the more you produce; the more you produce, the more you are rewarded]. If you only work the bare minimum 40 hours a week, you will never make as much as the same person who works 60 and 80 hours a week, even if those extra hours were not overtime or even unpaid. After a year, the person who works 40 hours has put 2000 hours into the company. The person working 60 or 80 hours has put in 3000 or 4000 hours, and in research, the big discoveries happen in the last 5% of the time spent on the project. Guess who has racked up more projects, more time on the projects, more time researching new projects, and amassed more resume bullets.

 

Taking care of kids is a full time job, so that's 40 hours a week. The other 40 hours they're in school and the last 40 they're hopefully asleep, though you'll have those "I wet the bed," "I'm sick [vomit]" or "I had a bad dream" moments cutting into your sleep time. You can do the math and see why single parents with kids cannot reasonably commit themselves to 60 or 80 hour work weeks, wile someone who has only one responsibility [eating, sleeping, drinking and clothing themselves] can easily put in such hours. Throw in the aft-fore-mentioned life hiccups like problems at school or early dismissal or school plays, and it's easy to see how putting even 40 hours a week in at work can become a struggle. Some jobs Don't have flexibility, I'm in one of them [military], and if I had kids, there are more than a couple days where I'd have to rely on their mother before I could do it myself.

 

This same study went on to find that the reason why women's wages have not caught up to men's wages because they self-select themselves out of the rat race and take a lower paying job with greater flexibility to enjoy more rewarding experiences like having children, being mom and doing things with the kids on Saturday. Men have not had to make this sacrifice because in a lot of households, it is the woman who takes that primary child care-giver role, and not because she Has to, but because she Wants to.

 

I sense that you may very will be going through a career change in about 4 or 5 years if you get into the field you're aiming for right now. You'll be better for the experience, of course, this opportunity will hopefully help you find that next opportunity, and hopefully it will help recover your educational costs. I'm not trying to dissuade you from pursuing a high octane STEM career, I'm just letting you see the lay of the land before you get there.

 

I will agree with Batya, though, about that damn clock. Throw it out until you're 35. I know, it's hard, all the kids from high school are popping out babies and posting photo after photo of their miscreants on Facebook, and the little devils are getting Old! [13 ALREADY? What happened to ME??!]. It's depressing, but then I look at those who are divorced, and relax. You're just going to have to resolve that when it happens, it happens, and you want it to be with the right person for the right reasons and when you know you can provide for them.

 

For now, well, time to get your head back in the game that counts today!

[justagirl2]

I think it's all a little too simplistic. Z is NOT happy at all with his job right now and really wants to have more of a life. He's very unhappy with IB to the point where he's actually quitting because other things matter to him too.

 

We had a bday party for a friend today and I saw Latin. It was all very weird. It's all very weird. We then talked a little on facebook and he was acting about my sister (?) and I ended up telling him about Z so I think now he DEF don't want anything to do with me anymore. I think it was the right thing to do. Take him out of the equation. It's sad because I think in a weird way I was actually really warming up to him and now I sabotaged everything. I do think that after going home I'll recoup and get all my ducks in a row. I can't have it all. I can't. I can't have Latin, Z, my ex. Latin was never going to go anywhere. Better cut my losses and not dwell into it, you know? It's still sad I think he went from being very into me to very NOT into me in 4 days. Telling him I like somebody else was probably the nail on that coffin but I feel like that was the correct thing to do.

 

Was I stupid though? I don't get why I completely sabotaged things with Latin. I feel like I'm back to sabotaging everything for Z when really, Z is the least realistic of every option.

[East4]

Was I stupid though? I don't get why I completely sabotaged things with Latin.

 

No, you haven't been stupid and you didn't sabotage anything. You have been honest and this is commendable. Anything based on lies doesn't last, though it may taste sweet in the beginning, but sooner or later the truth comes out and tastes very bitter, if lies were told at the start. So, imagine that you would have continued to warm to the Latin guy, and you become intimate; then mister Z would wink you ;-) and finally asks you out on a real date. Of course, you will jump to this proposal and then you would have had a very hard time to explain to Latin that you would have led him on for so long. This would cause him lose all respect for you. Now the respect is intact because you showed you have the backbone to be upfront with him, and also that you respect him enough to not play games with him.

 

Though he doesn't appreciate the bad news now, over time he will think fondly of your being honest with him and this will only strengthen your friendship. By being honest where you stand you have invested in something long term. If you had continued to lie by omission, you would have invested in the short term fun, but would lose in the long run. I think you did the right thing with Latin and most probably he will come back to you after some period of sulking. Don't worry.

[East4]

As for mister Z to me there are two main reasons for his reservation towards you:

 

1) the most important is that career minded men, would firstly get their act together before getting involved in serious relationship that may lead to a marriage. Serious men firstly get the money to afford a family and then they find a serious girl and marry her. Mister Z is not yet there, he knows that and this is why he doesn't give you any false hopes. He knows you are from affluent family, marriage minded and he doesn't want to get involved because he cannot deliver to your expectations. He will probably be ready for what you want by his 35 year of age, but then would you put your life on hold to wait for him? This will be really stupid. So, the timing is bad;

my first husband had a long term girlfriend who saw him through all his years in uni and while he was building his career, 8 years or so. But he didn't marry her, though she wanted; he met me and married me just after 1 year of dating, when he felt established in his career and financially secure.

 

2) it seems that mister Z doesn't see relationships as a priority and he's somewhat insensitive and doesn't show feeling openly (in case he has them). So, for him is easy to be cool and focus on work; not only you, but in general he doesn't seem to consider dating girls as priority. As i have said, when all the rest in his life is taken care of, only then he will go shopping for the trophy wife to dovetail his perfect life.

 

On one hand you seem to like this type of men, because you have been conditioned to like them, as they resemble your father. On the other hand though, you seem to be dissatisfied by those of men, because often they are cold and insensitive (or have bad temper when things do not go their way). You can't discuss feeling or deep subjects with them, because they are simply lacking in skills to do that. If you marry this type of man, after a while you will start to feel lonely and neglected because your main function will be reduced to bearing his children and looking good in society. But you will never have a deep emotional bond with such a man, because they cannot give you this. Then either you will find a lover, the type of Latin guy, who is warm and expansive and open and fulfills your emotional needs. Then your guilt will kick-in, and either you will end up with a divorce, or your marriage life will turn to an empty shell, where you stay married only to keep up appearances for the society. To me it is of paramount importance that you understood that the serious, hard working, silent type that you like is also very often the cold, materialistic type. So, try to find a man that blends both-responsible behavior and dependability with warmth and big heartedness.

[Batya33]

In your last post you write you can't have it all. You can have a healthy relationship and a great career too - you can't have it "all" if all means attention and adoration from three different men, one of whom you are hanging onto as a security blanket, one of whom you play a push-pull game with (and he plays too most likely) and one who you wish you could be flexible enough to be with. That's how it sounds like you're defining "all" in that post. Be careful about getting caught up in the game playing and drama and drifting further from your real, deep down definition of "all" (or figure out what it really means to you).

[justagirl2]

I'm not doing well at all. I feel depressed and like I don't want to get on that plane and have a hard conversation w/ T.

 

I keep thinking it's stupid as hell to let him go. I fear I'm going to give in to the comfort and get back together. I literally feel like puking. Why is this so hard.

 

Z finally told me yesterday he's excited to see me and said the weekend was going to be amazing (?) and asked if I agreed. Not even that excites me because the thought of ending things for good w/ T Thursday and going on a date w/ Z on Friday leaves a very bad taste on my mind. I feel like I'm in a lose/lose situation.

 

Going to therapy in 1 hour maybe she can give me some medication. Have a job interview and class today and am just not feeling it. Every time I think about letting go of T for good I get this awful feeling of doom - of do I really like Z? T is the combo of a man who wants success just as much as Z does, but is also an emotional and caring guy.

 

I'm at a complete loss.

[justagirl2]

2) it seems that mister Z doesn't see relationships as a priority and he's somewhat insensitive and doesn't show feeling openly (in case he has them). So, for him is easy to be cool and focus on work; not only you, but in general he doesn't seem to consider dating girls as priority. As i have said, when all the rest in his life is taken care of, only then he will go shopping for the trophy wife to dovetail his perfect life.

 

East4 - I really appreciate all of your thoughts into this situation. It means a lot to me. I think you hit the nail PERFECTLY in the head with number 2. I just feel like Z's priority is NOT women at the moment. It's almost weird to me how a 25-year old guy just doesn't seem interested in hooking up, dating, let alone having a serious long-term relationship. He seems very independent and used to being on his own.

 

On the other hand, I don't think #1 is the case. First of all, like myself, Z already comes from a very affluent family so there is that deep down rooted knowledge that his trust fund is safe. Just like I know that in reality, I don't really need to work much because my father already has me set for life. The differences between us lies in the fact that 1) He's a man. 2) He's American. It is expected from man more than from woman that they make it in their own, independent of what their family already accomplished. Secondly, unlike in Latin culture where there is a little bit of that entitled attitude that if you were born into money, you are rich for life. In the US there is much more of the mentality that you have to make it on your own, no matter what. And Z's family definitely fosters that meritocratic mentality. Deep down though, money or financial stability is not a real priority to Z. He knows he's already financially secure. I think Z and I are similar in the fact that we really want to find our passion - something that makes us tick so we don't end up being just trust fund kids, you know? He seems extremely family oriented though and very, very close to his brother and sister. His sister got married at 27 to a 26 year old, also from NYC. His older brother, who is 27, is in grad school like myself and has been dating a girl for the past year and is very serious with her. Z goes on family trips ALL the time. For example, Summer they spend in the Hamptons as a family and every New Years they spend at the family home oversees. It's a tradition for him and one thing that matters for him more than anything else is his family. They are very close knit, specially for an American "waspy" family. I imagine it is just a little weird for him to go on these family trips where it's mom and dad, sister and the husband, brother and girlfriend and he's the odd one out, you know? I genuinely think with his decision to quit IB comes a desire to find someone too. Like I said, he's not the party, hooking up type, so I'm not sure he'll be one of these guys to be single until he's 35. It would surprise me, specially since his sister is already married and his brother will probably get married in the next year or two.

 

The main problem is that it's just too far fetched right now to imagine that Z and I might end up dating let alone getting married. I have no idea what he's like in a relationship, if we would work, how it would be. This kid is kind of a mystery to me. However, I do think there are some deep emotions there and he is not just some cold, hard working guy. For me the biggest risk is not knowing what we'd be like together. Therefore, it seems very risky for me to give up on T, my ex, for this completely RISKY, UNKNOWN relationship. What if this is all a fantasy and we are HORRIBLE and AWFUL together?

[justagirl2]

In your last post you write you can't have it all. You can have a healthy relationship and a great career too - you can't have it "all" if all means attention and adoration from three different men, one of whom you are hanging onto as a security blanket, one of whom you play a push-pull game with (and he plays too most likely) and one who you wish you could be flexible enough to be with. That's how it sounds like you're defining "all" in that post. Be careful about getting caught up in the game playing and drama and drifting further from your real, deep down definition of "all" (or figure out what it really means to you).

 

Batya - I meant having at all right now as in "attention and adoration from three different men, one of whom you are hanging onto as a security blanket, one of whom you play a push-pull game with (and he plays too most likely) and one who you wish you could be flexible enough to be with". I CANNOT HAVE IT ALL and I am aware of that. That is why I am attempting to untangle these webs.

 

I do believe that I can have a career AND a healthy relationship, for sure. In due time.

[Batya33]

I think you're ignoring an entirely reasonable alternative. T and Z might very well both be wrong for you and why is it so awful to accept that? I'm not saying for sure, I'm just saying that doom and gloom is entirely unnecessary -all that's happening is that you are interested in two men who might not be right for you. That is all.

 

It's hard because giving up the known and comfortable is very difficult for some people and you probably are afraid to be alone. Normal. It's just a little worse because you've chosen to escalate the drama in your situation and decision. It took me almost 7 years to finally break it off with my ex boyfriend -we went back and forth so many times it would make your head spin. Sometimes I returned because of the comfort, sometimes because I really felt I was madly in love, sometimes a combination of the two. I wish I had ended things for good much much sooner in large part for his sake. Luckily, we both married other people (ironically within 10 months of each other) and after the final break up I had no regrets. even though he is a wonderful person (and amazing on paper too I should add) I did after the intermediate break ups which is why I kept going back. By contrast, my husband and I broke up (or nearly so) once when we were dating, for about 24 hours (not counting that we dated in the past as I've mentioned). There was never any real drama in the way you're describing, never any push and pull that I can remember and that's a key here too. The more push and pull you have the more exciting it is to get back together and the more you start to not be able to distinguish between "do I miss him because of the drama in the push and pull or do I really want to be with the real him?".

 

No one ever said that saying goodbye to people is easy or clean -sometimes it is, most often it is not. That's part of dating/relationships but you can lessen the difficulties by stopping the drama and game playing you do and enable.

[justagirl2]

I think my posts might sound more dramatic than the actual situation. My feelings are dramatic but things with T and Z are not really dramatic at all.

 

T and I are on a break and are going to discuss where we stand given that things were left too much in the open. There is no drama at all, no crying, screaming, game playing.

 

Z and I don't have anything going on so I don't feel like there's too much drama there either. Yes, maybe a little of push/pull given I'm very insecure about his intentions/ feelings but I wouldn't call it drama.

 

Latin is the most dramatic just because he is a little dramatic but that situation seems to be resolved for the time being.

 

I think the drama is on my mind that for me the alternative of being alone is awful. I do not want to be single and go through all the hoops and drama of being single. That is an awful alternative for me which I know is very very wrong. It doesn't help that G, my ex whom I dumped and regretted for a while just got engaged. It is like everyone around me is moving on with their lives and I'm moving on to being single? I do not want to be one of those 30 year old single woman. No offense to anyone but it really is not what I want for me.

[Deciduous]

Z and I don't have anything going on so I don't feel like there's too much drama there either. Yes, maybe a little of push/pull given I'm very insecure about his intentions/ feelings but I wouldn't call it drama.

 

Justagirl, are you serious, sweetheart?

 

You are deeply in love with a guy, who you can neither be near (physically), nor declare your feelings to. Shakespeare based most of his plays on this type of drama. Surely, you can see that.

 

The intensity of your feelings is based upon this drama - not in spite of it. You grew bored with T. Boredom is a problem. It is very, very easy to put a stop to the drama. If you wanted to, you would have done so. Yet you choose not to.

 

One honest phone call to Z, who is at the centre of this drama, would put a stop to the intrigue, yet you choose not to. And that is your right.

 

These actions are deliberate, yet you never peep under the surface as to why you choose to live life like this. There is a lack of ownership here, honey. There are reasons and they are internal. You see it as external occurances, that are randomly happening to you. They are not.

 

At the heart of this drama, is you - orchestrating it.

 

Wouldn't that be fair assessment?

 

Deci

[Batya33]

Oh my goodness- please whatever you do don't be "one of those 30 year old single women!" Too funny. My advice would be please make sure you're not a person who tells yourself you want a healthy long term relationship and then gets in your own way when that is a possibility. When I write about "drama" I mean you use manipulative behavior and language to make sure that you and every man you interact with is kept on his toes - and not in a healthy way. As long as you keep creating these situations where you're spending almost all of your time analyzing what is typed on a screen as to whether he is interested, pining away for some unavailable guy (unavailable for whatever reason), and using the L word as often as you order a coffee you're going to distract yourself from being the right person and distract yourself from finding the right person. Both.

Some people who get engaged and married are moving on with their lives and some are moving backwards and everything in between. Yes, you're right conventionally it's considered a step towards more responsibility, commitment, adulthood. I couldn't stand to hear about all the engagements and marriages when I was in my 20s and 30s.

You are not behaving like someone who is looking for a healthy long term relationship. But you can change that.

[Justnotsure]

Hah - yes, a fate worse than death! Seriously though, I met my soulmate at age 31 (gasp), and it seems much scarier to me that I would have settled down with someone that I wasn't as compatible with just to not end up 30 and single. And echo the - engagement might not necessarily be a step forward - I can certainly think of several friends who got engaged/married while I was single, and weren't half as "happy" as I was. Looking at other people and dates/timelines is a very surface level way of interacting with the world.

[Lonewing]

I'm just...shocked...

 

You finally get what you wanted...and now...this?

 

Oye Vey...

[justagirl2]

Guys - Just to make it clear this is not an easy time for me. I don't feel good about all this at all. I just got prescribed anti-depressants from my therapist because I haven't been able to function for the past week. I'm in very deep turmoil inside. It's not like I'm like: "Yeah man, I am this manipulative biatch who have 3 guys to play around with, sweet!". That's not how I feel. It really is not. What I feel right now is that I just want to crawl into my bed and not have to deal with any of this.

 

I DO WANT A HEALTHY LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP. I had one with T but I just was NOT feeling in love and like I could be with this person forever. Emotionally I felt disconnected and just... not feeling any romantic connection to him. I do NOT want to get married just to say oh, I'm engaged at 26, how perfect. No, that is NOT what I want for my life. I want to be engaged when I believe I've found a perfect match for me - someone I enjoy spending time everyday and that makes me feel... love. I don't want to get married just to get married. But I do want to get married - when I find the right person.

 

This is hard because I've found someone who is almost perfect - who I'm comfortable with, whom I've dated for 2 years and had no fights with. Someone who I admire, respect and trust. BUT, I don't feel the connection necessary to build a life together. The thing is to cut that cord is really painful and hard. I'm grieving a relationship that I really, really, deep down in my heart I wish would have worked. And for something unknown, that I can't quite put my finger on, it didn't. I grieve in fear of never finding that connection.

 

As for Z, you have to understand we are both in our 20's. 25 and 26. How can I tell VIA a mobile screen how I really feel about him when we have shared ONE kiss? That is not realistic. I would also not agree that I am deeply in love with him. I am deeply infatuated by him but I don't know him well enough to feel love for him. I am not being manipulative by telling him how I feel. It's just I don't think it makes sense to tell him I feel strongly about him when we haven't really had a chance to built anything yet. You know? My "manipulation" with him is just me being insecure and trying to gauge how he feels. I'm not trying to deceive or hurt him.

 

So Deci, no I don't agree I'm "deeply" in love with Z. Deeply infatuated? Deeply interested? Yes, but not deeply in love because that would require we actually have a relationship which we don't.

 

What my therapist advised me was to end things with T for good on Thursday, then give myself Friday to grieve. Stay home. Not see anyone. Then, if appropriate, spend time with Z on Saturday. When we are physically together I can then tell him I really do like him and wonder where he sees this going and what are his intentions.

 

Right now I just have to find strength to get on a plane to fly 9 hours to end things with the most special guy I have ever met. It's freaking hard. I second guess myself all the time. Rationally, it seems like an insane thing to do. However, deep down my gut knows it's the right thing. I'm just dreading it so much but I know I will feel a huge relief on Friday when I've had this conversation with him.

[Deciduous]

Huh? What?? Whooa! Yesterday you said...

 

 

This one is more complicated. I am in LOVE with Z so even though rationally I know it's wrong to do that to my ex, if it seemed like he REALLY wanted to see me, my heart would probably speak louder than my head.

 

Today you say....

 

So Deci, no I don't agree I'm "deeply" in love with Z. Deeply infatuated? Deeply interested? Yes, but not deeply in love because that would require we actually have a relationship which we don't.

 

 

In the space of twenty-four hours, there is an abrupt change to the narrative???? As others have stated, there is not a consistent narrative here. There is a lack of ownership and a lack of responsibility. And that is a problem here.

 

Hearts are being dragged into this situation, left right and centre, as per your request.

 

There is lack of accountability - which happens time and again, in this thread.

 

Lord knows, there's been precious few times when I've agreed with Lonewing on this thread, but there are some sailient points to his post #196

 

I feel sorry for Z...

 

Look, you need to get your act together. Right now you are chaos tangled up with far too many boys to count. You don't have time, and yet you get upset about him not asking for time...

 

This situation is not happening to you. You are not the victim. Let us be very clear about that. You are orchestrating this. (The real question is why)

 

But whenever this is pointed out, you simply dance away from the fact.

 

Deci

[justagirl2]

But that is exactly what Batya said Deci... I am using the "L" word wrongly. I really feel in love with Z and that is why I write "in love" because my brain believes that.

 

However, when I rationally think about it, can this really be love? I'm very interested and infatuated with him, but the "L" word should be used less lightly, don't you agree? Do you think what I feel is love? It's obsession, infatuation, deep interest, but is it love?

 

Why do you feel sorry for Z? I really want to be with him, what am I doing wrong? I feel sorry for T and maybe Latin, but Z is the one guy I really want to be with.

 

I just would rather, as Batya suggested, NOT used the "L" word before I am actually in a COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP with Z. I agree with her that "LOVE" should be used seriously. I see potential of the feelings developing, but for that, we have to be in a relationship first, correct?

[justagirl2]

I just asked Z if he could pencil Saturday in for us to hangout. Let's say what he says and then I can go from there in expressing how I feel. See how I'm always the one initiating? Well, but this time ball was in my court since I was so ambivalent about being busy and not having time.

 

Of course before anything I have to talk to T.

 

I'm feeling so much drama inside that I'm going to try to do a cognitive work and try to be calm and serene. Nobody is dying. If things are supposed to work with T, it won't be this talk that will ruin things. If we are meant to be, we will find our way back. This is the correct thing to do. I have Ambien for the plane. I will survive. I'm doing what is needed to be done.

[Deciduous]

Hi Justagirl,

 

I honestly think there is an addiction to high drama scenarios. The type that Shakespearean tragedies thrive on. This motivates you and your passions. The moment you and T moved on from the honeymoon period, the relationship begin to die.

 

It was done!!! Sex died, everything died.

 

Now it is back into high drama mode, because you are about to pull the plug. More drama. Your sorrow reaches a cresendo. Suddenly your passions are inflamed.

 

Simultaneously, Z some-what declares himself. As lonewing pointed out, imagine our astonishment to find you weren't equally thrilled. Nope, you were busy dealing with the tragedy and dramatic ending of the relationship with T.

 

So, now T carries the drama. So your thoughts are with him.

 

Do you see a pattern here? Don't you find this suspicious? Don't you have a few questions?

 

I honestly feel that if Z declares himself, you will suddenly start seeing his flaws and backing away. I think the minute he says "I love you." You will be on this thread saying "Yeahhh, but he's so far away. And he's a bit cold, etc, etc.

 

You don't want a real relationship, as Batya said. This is about gaining that dramatic fix.

 

There an issue here, but you refuse to look it in the eye. You have benefit of written statements from yourself, which allows you to become more self-aware.

 

The question is, whether you will take that opportunity.

 

Deci

[justagirl2]

Deci - It will take Z AT THE VERY least 1 year on a long-term relationship to say "I love you". So you shouldn't worry about that one. It's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

I actually don't say "I love you" very often in real life. T and I said it maybe 2, 3 times on our whole relationship. I seem dramatic from my turmoil inside, but I act very rational in real life.

 

I do agree and I have posted that maybe the problem is me and I will ALWAYS get bored after 2 years or so in a relationship. But, if at 26, I can't believe that maybe with the right person it won't be the case... Shouldn't I try to go for it?

 

I mean what do you suggest I do? Accept that I am the problem and stay with T because I will never be satisfied anyways? That is my fear and why I considered staying for so long.

 

However, what if there will be someone (maybe Z, maybe someone else) that won't make me feel this way? Should I just give up that might exist?

 

I mean, really, what is the correct way to proceed now? Z said he wants to hangout, he did not declare any love for me. You are confusing me. Don't you think I came up with a good decision? End things with T for now, see Z and tell him how I feel in person?

 

What do you suggest is the correct way to proceed here?

 

There is no drama with T - I'm just sad it couldn't workout. It's just very sad for me because I really admire, respect and care about him.

[justagirl2]

You know what is the worst about this situation? The worst of it all is that the more I try to separate things, T and Z, it's just not a separate entity.

 

I just asked Z if he can hangout out on Saturday - he has been online and still hasn't replied. Ok, it might mean nothing. BUT, if he says no it's like I won't have the courage to end things with T. It's almost like Z is giving me the courage to do so and if he's out of the picture, giving my relationship a shot seems like the better thing to do.

 

I mean, why can't I separate things, you know? It should not be about Z but in the end of the day it is. If Z told me point blank, look, I'm not interested, I don't want to hangout with you, I would probably try to salvage my relationship. Why can't I be rational and be like, even if Z doesn't exist, I'm not in love with T and we both deserve better than this. I don't understand why in my mind it's either T or Z. What about the alternative of being alone and focusing on myself? It doesn't seem to be an option and I understand that it's a big problem.

[pl3asehelp]

You should make developing a stronger sense of empathy a top priority. These are people, not toys.

[justagirl2]

I am trying to do just that. This is a journal that I post my thoughts and feelings. I am trying to do the right thing here. It is not easy, maybe I'm a horrible, selfish human being. I'm not proud of the situation I am in. I don't feel good about it. Anti-depressants, therapy, I'm trying. Does it feel like I'm very happy to be in this situation? I am not.

 

It's very easy to sit and judge here at ENA. I do that too. I am not perfect. Far from it. I have a lot of growing up and learning to do.

 

I hope I can do the right thing for T - I feel like he's the one who deserves it the most.

 

I don't feel like Z is as invested so I don't think he's being affected by my actions. Not yet anyways.

 

The priority here is doing the best thing for T because he deserves it.

[Deciduous]

I do agree and I have posted that maybe the problem is me and I will ALWAYS get bored after 2 years or so in a relationship. But, if at 26, I can't believe that maybe with the right person it won't be the case... Shouldn't I try to go for it?

 

I mean what do you suggest I do? Accept that I am the problem and stay with T because I will never be satisfied anyways? That is my fear and why I considered staying for so long.

 

However, what if there will be someone (maybe Z, maybe someone else) that won't make me feel this way? Should I just give up that might exist?.

 

 

Hi Justa,

 

You are still hanging onto the hope that Z will be endlessly exciting. Maybe he will be the one to provide dramatic possibilites over decades. But that is the core issue. The relationships that provide the most dramatic possibilites are the ones that are most unstable. This is why you chase after him. Because he won't be captured in an emotional way. At least not for long.

 

This isn't about T or Z or Latin guy. This is about you.

 

Re-read justnotsure's #113 post.

 

It is a hard line to draw, and it has so much more to do with YOU than the other person.

 

If you dated Z for two years, you'd start to feel the same way. EVERY relationship loses that excitement/honeymoon/chase drama eventually. Once it's a commitment - the success or failure depends on both parties working and re-committing to it all of the time. Every day.

 

When you're in a place in your life when your instinct is to do the hard work and stay, rather than to leave and keep looking for better - that is when you know. It doesn't make you "bad" to still keep seeking - it just makes you not ready for an ultimate commitment.

 

But what you need to realize is that it has very little to do with the other person. Z is an ideal now because you don't have him. If you did - after a period of time, you will face the same dilemma with another person.

 

Don't commit until you are ready -- but the answer does not lie in finding someone perfect - its in accepting what it takes to be in a mature relationship. Definitely not as romantic of an idea, but it is reality.

 

...particularly the last sentence.

 

Deci

[pl3asehelp]

Yeah, exactly. Saying High Functioning Asperger's is a redundancy. Asperger's is already High Functioning...

 

People with Asperger's do all sorts of things really well; if you looked deeper into it, you'd find they're particularly apt at self paced sports - like long distance running, or at music, or at anything that benefits from intense narrow focus. They may not have as many friends, but the friends they do have are more significant. Your outlook on what an aspie can do is quite frankly obtuse, but then it reflects how "normal" people think about it.

 

Not to mention working for a hedge fund isn't even difficult. You just have to value money more than anything else in life. Is Barry Maddoff 'successful'?