Is it possible for people NOT to be turned off by too much contact/interest?

[Batya33]

Just to update that I've been very good. I didn't speak to him at all this weekend.

 

I'm thinking that by the end of this week once he hears about his job I'm going to ask him point blank if he is really planning on visiting me and when. If he doesn't have a concrete answer that's all I need. It's not asking do you like me, do you want to commit. It's asking: Hey Z, do you really plan on visiting me before the end of the year? When?

 

That's all I'm asking.

 

Sure, you can ask him when he plans on seeing you and that will give you an idea of his intentions towards you . I had a friend in a long distance relationship with a man for 3 years. They met once because she flew to where he lived. Otherwise he kept making excuses as to why he couldn't come visit her, etc. She finally ended it then met and married a man in under a year (who lived nearby). But by that time she was in her mid-40s and they couldn't afford fertility treatments etc so now she is in her late 40s and would love to have a family but they're still in the same situation (even if it would work). While she was wasting her time with the long distance guy she turned down set ups (from me) because of him and basically closed off her options because she was so hung up on him. The time goes really quickly -be careful.

[justagirl2]

I've been feeling weird lately. I haven't spoken to him in a few days, feel disconnected to him. It's funny because it makes me realize that I make up this whole love story when really? We kissed once and he barely cares about me.

 

I've been really wanting to move on lately. Sometimes I really feel like going home to see my ex boyfriend and try to make things work again. We still talk and the break-up was pretty mutual/because of distance. It's always been sort of a break and understood that we'd be together if/when we decided where we'd be next year. I dunno, I feel like he's the perfect guy for me and I don't know why I'm fantasizing about this other person that I barely know.

 

I have therapy on wed so that will be good. I need to go home ASAP and have been pushing that because I kind of know that when I go home I need to make a decision to either see Z or the ex and I wasn't/am not ready to make that decision yet.

 

Today I feel a lot closer to a decision though - and it's def. my ex. Specially after reading what Batya just wrote.

[Deciduous]

I think that sounds really positive. You've put a lot of time and effort into this thread, in terms of trying to understand and get to the bottom of your thoughts and feelings -in regards to your relationships - and I think that's all to the good. Many folks, sit back and let their thoughts go round and round in our head, without even attempting to resolve them. None of this, is time wasted. Not one word.

 

It was always going to be a tough and confusing journey.

 

Whatever the outcome of your final decision, you are beginning to understand yourself a lot better - and what you truly need, right now.

 

Also, well done Batya. She stayed the distance.

 

 

Deci

[Batya33]

I'm glad I could help and I know how hard it is. What you're doing is impressive and insightful.

[justagirl2]

It's very hard to think like this but I'm trying to be rational. The more distant Z and I have the better it is.

 

I think this is a good exercise of life for me. The dream vs. the real. I have to realize that life is NOT a fairytale. Relationships are not always easy. But do I want to wait forever for the fairytale and end up at 40 realizing time passed and I'm still living in the dream? NO.

 

My priority in life IS getting married and having kids, so I need to be realistic about my goals.

 

Batya knows that aside from long-distance, the only reason I ended things with the bf was because I didn't feel in love with him and IMO, this is something I HAVE TO WORK ON. It's like a garden, a flower. Relationships need to be watered and taken care of.

 

Maybe I won't end up with the bf but I feel like being REALISTIC is a very important lesson that I have to learn and dreaming about the day that Z decides he wants to come see me is not REALISTIC.

 

I have to try to keep it REAL.

[Batya33]

OK let's put it this way - it's the same as when you break things off with someone who suggests that perhaps, maybe, someday you'll end up together again. Do you hang on to that possibility and wait for years and tell yourself that it will become a probability or do you move on and tell yourself that you're not going to hang on to a possibility when your goal is to find a long term partner? I had to let go of a few relationships like that and I'm glad I did (although at the time-and at times- it was tempting to hang on to that hope).

[justagirl2]

OK let's put it this way - it's the same as when you break things off with someone who suggests that perhaps, maybe, someday you'll end up together again. Do you hang on to that possibility and wait for years and tell yourself that it will become a probability or do you move on and tell yourself that you're not going to hang on to a possibility when your goal is to find a long term partner? I had to let go of a few relationships like that and I'm glad I did (although at the time-and at times- it was tempting to hang on to that hope).

 

Yeah, it's kind of like what is going on with me and my ex now. I know he's not going to move on RIGHT now because he's applying to business school so he has literally zero time to find someone else. BUT, I know that if I don't go see him in the next few weeks and if I keep distancing myself from him, he will eventually move on. That's what people do.

 

The problem is now I feel guilty of getting back with him without telling him that I got involved with someone else. At the same time, I don't see the point of telling him this, he will probably not even want to know. He's never interested on what goes on when I'm not with him. But, I feel guilty because I know I was very into someone else and might not have gone back to him had the relationship worked.

 

Let's see what happens this next few weeks, I don't want to make any rash decisions but I know I need to soon as my bf will not wait around forever for me to make up my mind.

 

The decision has to be made without Z in the equation. But truthfully, if it wasn't for Z, I would give the relationship a chance. He's the only thing making me hold off. And, as we've been noticing, there's not a lot there for me to make decision based on him.

 

My therapist was talking to me last week and she said that the choice of being with the bf was pretty much aligned with my goals - she implied that if I didn't have any plans of having kids or getting married being single and waiting around for Z or for whoever else would be a good option. But, since I have clear goals to get married and start a family, it's not an easy decision.

[justagirl2]

My plan is to get an answer from Z this week in some way. Probably put him on the wall about visiting me. If he doesn't give me concrete dates/plans I am moving on.

 

Moving on will involve what to do about the bf. Today was a big day for him because he took his GMAT and got the score he needs to apply to school. So today I know for SURE that he is going to be living in the US starting next fall for at least 2 years. He has rockstar work experience and an amazing personal story (dad is CEO of a publicly traded company, didn't follow his footsteps, made it on his own, mother died when he was 3) so there's 0 chance that with the score he got today he won't get into one of the top programs. I have NO idea where I will be next year though so it's all complex.

 

The positive is that I REALLY want to stay in the US so am going to focus my recruiting to the US and now that he's coming we might at least be in the same country. BUT, what if I only get a job in our home country? That means we will be switching countries and be doing long distance again. I mean, I don't really mind if we decided to be together but it's a little too uncertain.

[Batya33]

"Yeah, it's kind of like what is going on with me and my ex now. I know he's not going to move on RIGHT now because he's applying to business school so he has literally zero time to find someone else."

 

I hate to burst your bubble but this couldn't be further from the truth. Many examples of this. Never ever assume that someone has "zero" time to find someone else yes even if that person is experiencing exactly what you described and more -and I mean "and more". In fact many people I know met their person while their lives were busy and chaotic beyond belief. Not saying there's causation there just disputing your impression that he's still going to be available.

[justagirl2]

I understand. You are right. That's why I need to make up my mind very soon.

[Batya33]

I don't think Z is the reason you're not giving him a chance -it's the reason you were interested in Z in the first place. If it wasn't Z it would have been someone else. And no I wouldn't tell him but I also wouldn't get back together with him unless you no longer have the "dream of someone else" (watch You've Got Mail which is where that line is from -Meg Ryan character and her long term boyfriend end things because even though they love each other and there is no one else there is the dream of someone else - meanwhile Meg Ryan is having an online semi-flirtation with Tom Hanks who she's never met and who also is in a long term relationship. Interesting scene and movie in that way.

[justagirl2]

Batya - But when do we know when to stop dreaming about someone else and just accepting what you have, you know? I'm having a genuinely hard time knowing where to draw that line. When you don't know you don't love the person enough to settle - or you love them enough to settle. How do you know that?

 

When is the right time to say, ok, I have something amazing, have to give up everything else and work on this and be happy with this. Or when is it the right time to realize, look this is amazing, but won't make me happy? It's a very hard line to draw.

[Justnotsure]

It is a hard line to draw, and it has so much more to do with YOU than the other person.

 

If you dated Z for two years, you'd start to feel the same way. EVERY relationship loses that excitement/honeymoon/chase drama eventually. Once it's a commitment - the success or failure depends on both parties working and re-committing to it all of the time. Every day. When you're in a place in your life when your instinct is to do the hard work and stay, rather than to leave and keep looking for better - that is when you know. It doesn't make you "bad" to still keep seeking - it just makes you not ready for an ultimate commitment. But what you need to realize is that it has very little to do with the other person. Z is an ideal now because you don't have him. If you did - after a period of time, you will face the same dilemma with another person. Don't commit until you are ready -- but the answer does not lie in finding someone perfect - its in accepting what it takes to be in a mature relationship. Definitely not as romantic of an idea, but it is reality.

[Batya33]

Batya - But when do we know when to stop dreaming about someone else and just accepting what you have, you know? I'm having a genuinely hard time knowing where to draw that line. When you don't know you don't love the person enough to settle - or you love them enough to settle. How do you know that?

 

When is the right time to say, ok, I have something amazing, have to give up everything else and work on this and be happy with this. Or when is it the right time to realize, look this is amazing, but won't make me happy? It's a very hard line to draw.

 

How it worked for me was pretty simple. I simply knew I was done. I knew that rationally, logically, there were other fish in the seaa, and that of course there could be someone even better for me in whatever way. And you could have told me that and I would have totally agreed with you and I would have not felt defensive at all -I would have simply said "yes, you're right and I'm happy with my choice to commit to him". It's not really "you just know" because it was more than that - it was an active choice - but it also wasn't "I know that he is the absolute best looking/most intelligent/most successful/best possible match in the whle world for me and so of course I don't have to even consider that someone else can be better". It was more like "I think he's great, I love him very much, and I couldn't care less if technically there was anyone out there who might be even better for me because I know I'm done looking".

 

I mean, could I really say on the most technical level that there couldn't be someone else who would be even better for me? No, of course not -but I don't need to go to that point and I don't need to analyze the pros/cons of why we're right for each other.

 

That's the best way I can explain it. Oh and I didn't feel like I was settling. I did feel like I was settling down -because of course I was - but not "settling".

[Deciduous]

This was brilliant. Completely hits the nail on the head

[Deciduous]

Hi Justagirl,

 

May I as how old you are? Are you at an age where these decisions need to be made now, or in the next 12 months?

 

I was wondering if there is a clock on this.

 

The fact that you developed such powerful feelings for Z, does tend to suggest that something was not quite right with you and your ex. And your crush on Z opens up the door to this happening again, in future.

 

Something wasn't connecting with you emotionally. Do you feel you have solved those issues, internally. On paper, your ex sounds wonderful. But you won't be living your relationship on paper.

 

I understand why you are trying to approach this from a logical and mature standpoint, but you need to analyze your previous actions, (the break up) and find out what these actions were trying to communicate to you.

 

Also I wonder why the option of being on your own has not come up. I'm not saying that this is right thing to do. I was just wondering why it had not been considered a viable way of being.

 

Are there reasons?

 

Let's analyze why you want to return to your Ex. It would be sad to simply return to your Ex, due to your hurt and sadness over Z. And that your guiding principle is to receive love, being openly wanted and comfort, (which you did not receive from Z) rather than a real desire to actually be with your Ex.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

 

Decixxx

[justagirl2]

Thanks girls.

 

To start this all off I'm going to say this: I am 26 years old. So the clock is starting to tick, but I guess I still have some time?

 

The biggest issue I have with letting go of my ex for good is what justnotsure said. I joined ENA when I was 21. My thread was one of the most popular for a long time in the GBT forum because the title was something like: "I dumped him and now I want him back. I'm dying with guilt". Very similar situation a few years ago. Perfect guy, great relationship, after the same 2 years I got tired and dumped him. After a long while of wanting to get back together, he moved on. That killed me. All the passion and the feelings came back. I went into a pretty deep depression. It was the worse I've felt in my life. The guilt of sabotaging such a great relationship consumed me day in day out. I had to take anti-depressants. I'm a fairly "healthy minded" girl so I was able to let start living again after 2-3 months but it was very tough times. I felt like I wanted to die and if you knew me I really do love life a lot. I just vowed to myself once and for all: "I am never going to make this same mistake again".

 

And this is what permanently breaking up with this boyfriend would be. Right now the distance gave me a good "buffer" but I know we are still talking and he still wants to work on things. If I make a decision to move on from him, to pursue Z, to stay single, I am going to be putting myself in the same EXACT position I was 5 years ago.

 

You know what they say, making a mistake once is human, twice it's stupidity. I'm not stupid. Am I really going to repeat the exact same type of mistake again?

 

I understand exactly what justnotsure says about me feeling that way about Z after 2 years. But, the "optimistic" side of me can't help but feel, what if? WHAT IF IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT? You know?

 

I have a few serious problems with my bf which are: lack of sexual passion, I don't miss him at all, I don't like being alone with him or going on trips alone. These are big things. I WANT TO BE HAPPY ABOUT GOING ON A TRIP WITH MY BOYFRIEND. I don't want to dread it. It's very sad because I do love him and think he's a great friend and companion - but in the end of the day I cannot help not feeling sexually attracted to him - or romantically and emotionally involved.

 

I'm starting to think I REALLY may be emotionally unavailable and have commitment problems. It's funny because my sister is prettier than I am - and my dad always jokes how he doesn't get how she always gets dumped and I always dump my boyfriends. I don't know how I can get these amazing guys so into me and get tired of them. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Is it because they sense that I'm emotionally distant? Is it because I'm the nicest girlfriend that never calls them 10x, never gets jealous, never is needy? But then again, I WANT TO FEEL A LITTLE JEALOUS. A LITTLE NEEDY. It's very funny because I remember when Batya read my dating threads she would say, you crave the drama, you love it, you are needy, etc... And I would always say, Batya yes, I get anxious during the dating game. But, once the guy commits to me, I feel 100% secure. I don't fight with my bfs. Both of my LTRs were smooth sailing. No drama at ALL.

 

I'm seeing a new therapist in the US as I felt like my old therapist knew me too well and treated me like her own child. And this women told me that she thinks I've only had 2 boyfriends and that's not a large enough sample to say if I'm a commitment phobe or if I simply haven't found a match for me.

 

It's hard to thread between this. You know? There are no answers. I will NEVER find out if things could be more romantic forever with Z or NOT. We cannot say for sure. We really cannot. I really wish I could you know? At 26 date somebody that I looked forward to getting married to - that i looked forward to having sex with - that I looked forward to go on a couple's trip.

 

It has been a very miserable year where I've been living through the motion of a relationship when I'm not romantically or sexually involved.

 

The problem is the problem might be ME and NOT HIM.

 

This is the hardest decision I ever had to make and I think if I didn't have that first point of data - the first ex, it would be a lot easier to let go. But knowing the guilt and the desperation, am I going to make this same mistake again? It seems insane. But, it also seems insane to stay with somebody I don't want to have sex with.

[justagirl2]

This is legit the hardest situation ever. Coupled with the fact that interviewing for jobs is SO stressful and I'm always comparing myself to my classmates: I'm the most lazy, less smart, less on top of my game for sure. Life is HARD.

 

I do think in the end of the day, the guy thing bothers me more than the job thing. I'm going to get a job... eventually. But it's very important for me to get this romantic thing right. I cannot put this before my recruiting though - and I have been. So... well, I don't know what I have to do right now to decrease my anxiety and make me focus more on school and job search.

 

This is a crazy hard choice. When I visit home - do I get back with my ex and not get the chance to see the guy I actually do miss every single day? I just feel like the safest right now is to give the bf a shot and keep things stable. You know? There's something that is really keeping me from not ending things for good. If I didn't love him, this wouldn't be so hard, right?

[Justnotsure]

I think your entire post begs the question that Deci posed "why is this a choice between the two?

 

It's not a choice between - passion, love, excitment - what Z "represents" or death, trapped, passionless like what your ex represents. Do you see how contorted your lens is making this scenario?

 

As far as feeling physically less interested - that WILL happen in every relationship. It's a biological fact that you won't forever live up to the passion of the first blushes of teh relationship. However, this does not mean that you should DREAD and be repulsed by it. I've been there before and it's because I was so anxious and ambivalent about the relationship that my body had that reaction. And it's a snowball - once you start feeling that way, it's very easy to feel like you want to hide and avoid and not be near that person. It's awful, so I truly understand why you're so pained.

 

So, do I think you should go back to your ex now just so you can prove that you're mature enough to commit and not give up a great guy? Absolutely not. I think that's a terrible idea for BOTH of you.

 

But do I think continuing the fantasy forever that a perfect man will come and answer all of your prayers is necessarily productive? No.

 

I think you should continue to live your life. I think you should date.

 

As Batya says, it's not that you'll say "omg, he's the one, he's perfect" - it's that you'll be at that point in time where you are done looking. And you don't get there until you get there. It's not about being unhealthy or needing therapy to get there. When the time is right, you'll just be there. And whatever great guy you meet at that time will be Mr. Right because the timing will be right.

[justagirl2]

As far as feeling physically less interested - that WILL happen in every relationship. It's a biological fact that you won't forever live up to the passion of the first blushes of teh relationship. However, this does not mean that you should DREAD and be repulsed by it. I've been there before and it's because I was so anxious and ambivalent about the relationship that my body had that reaction. And it's a snowball - once you start feeling that way, it's very easy to feel like you want to hide and avoid and not be near that person. It's awful, so I truly understand why you're so pained.

 

WOW, this is EXACTLY what happened. I was talking to my best friend and she gave me the best data point as well - I started feeling this way BEFORE reconnecting with Z. It was about 9 months in the relationship in a trip to Miami with him. I remember getting back from a long day and just making up excuses after excuses not to have sex... and just wanting the trip to end so I didn't feel obligated to do it every single day. I don't know how it started, I had some pain while doing it and then it just became a very big SNOWBALL on the relationship. It's funny because sex is NUMBER 100 on my list of priorities, but this feeling of not wanting to be near the person because you don't want to have sex is just very bad.

 

Do you think I can work on it? Improve it?

[justagirl2]

As for Z, I don't think he represents passion, per say. He's a very cold guy. I just like him for weird reasons. It's a mystery really because if anything, he's probably more shy/closed than the bf.

[justagirl2]

It's funny because the guy who would actually represent a change from all that is my classmate - the sexy, outgoing, loud Latin. But, he does NOT check my boxes on "paper" so I can't even imagine giving him a shot. I find him less intellectual/ambitious than Z and the BF and that just makes me not even consider it. He's my equal I feel. We are both very smart to be on a top business school but we are much less focused than these other guys that I normally admire. We are open, outgoing. I just really am more interested in guys that are different than I am.

[Deciduous]

Hi Justa,

 

Ah-ha! Got it, From your post #120, I get where you are coming from and why you don't rush into ending things. Yes, it is a mature attitude that you want to look at past patterns.

 

Okay lets go back. Presumably you felt some passion at the start, with your Ex. Can you pinpoint when it began to wane? What triggered it? What was going on in your life, at the time.

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

It's funny because the guy who would actually represent a change from all that is my classmate - the sexy, outgoing, loud Latin. But, he does NOT check my boxes on "paper" so I can't even imagine giving him a shot. I find him less intellectual/ambitious than Z and the BF and that just makes me not even consider it. He's my equal I feel. We are both very smart to be on a top business school but we are much less focused than these other guys that I normally admire. We are open, outgoing. I just really am more interested in guys that are different than I am.

 

Whilst it's good to have standards, checking boxes on paper doesn't really allow for the human, nebulous element, that makes two people work - to come into play.

[justagirl2]

Hi Justa,

 

Ah-ha! Got it, From your post #120, I get where you are coming from and why you don't rush into ending things. Yes, it is a mature attitude that you want to look at past patterns.

 

Okay lets go back. Presumably you felt some passion at the start, with your Ex. Can you pinpoint when it began to wane? What triggered it? What was going on in your life, at the time.

 

Deci

 

I did feel great chemistry with him until about 4-5 months.

 

I was going to move to another country for my MBA. I had just gotten into every top program I applied to but Harvard. I was feeling very happy and confident with myself, and excited for this new journey. A lot of people doubted me because of my age. I got into these programs at 24 when most of my classmates are around 27-28.

 

Physically, I also had a little inflammation that made sex painful, which started making me not enjoy it.

 

These are really the only 2 things going on.