For all you 'shy' guys out there......

[unsureinlove]

OK….my ghost made yet another appearance. This is out of character for him. He only said hello how are you, I reciprocated but did not engage any further and he left.

 

To answer about the ‘stupid question’, it was a personal question and he KNEW the answer so I thought it strange that he would ask me such a dumb question. He seemed to want to engage a bit more, but I CUT IT OFF and walked away.

 

I thought about (as I often do) and thought “he’s just trying to be friendly” but this is a guy who speaks to no one unless spoken to. So he does not seek people out to make idle chit chat.

 

I’m not giving in though…..this is just a mind game!

 

PS….we work in the same office but we don’t have any need to interact regarding work, we have 2 different jobs.

[happpybear]

good for you!

 

I always found it helpful to look extremely busy at all times, and if I new he was going to walk by me when I was at my desk, i would purposely turn my back and rifle through my filing cabinet, that way i didn't get tempted to sneak a peek as he walked by, and i also wouldn't see him staring at me. If he happened to be in the kitchen when i needed it, I would just keep on walking by and head to the washroom, by the time I came out he would not be in the kitchen anymore...stuff like that.

[happpybear]

let's hope you guys don't get stuck in the elevator together...

[unsureinlove]

let's hope you guys don't get stuck in the elevator together...

 

We both take the stairs.

 

I didn't mention in my earlier post, but he sat near me today in the cafeteria and was looking at me most of the time....not the whole time.

 

I'm trying (very hard I might add) to not look at him, but my head is back to "does he or doesn't he".

[Purusha]

It's hard to ignore - happy you have waaay more will power than me!! haha! I agree though, distractions are great for taking your mind off of it.

 

Are you interested in anyone else at the moment unsure?

[unsureinlove]

It's hard to ignore - happy you have waaay more will power than me!! haha! I agree though, distractions are great for taking your mind off of it.

 

Are you interested in anyone else at the moment unsure?

 

No and I wish I were. happpybear and I have posted about that. I'm trying to get a friend to join an oline dating with me.

 

My will power is starting to crumble....LOL.

[Purusha]

Hahaha! Keep strong sista! The worst thing I find is if you have a boring job to do that you can't get absorbed in, so the brain goes to sexy-land anyway, so if you've got a real life distraction it's sooo much worse.

[Purusha]

Hmm just thought of another suggestion that you could try - I tried this with my shy guy and although it didn't help with the situation per se in that it didn't resolve it, it did help with the way I felt in terms of managing my nerves and maintaining a level of what is ok and what isn't - this may, or may not work for you.

 

Talk to him, blatantly, outrageously talk to him - when he walks past if he looks at you say 'Hi, Steve!' in a bright, cheery, friendly fashion, chat when he's around, if he looks at you, look up and say hi - break the ice thoroughly. I don't mean in a scary freaky fashion, just be overtly friendly to him - he'll either break or he'll run.

 

It does two things - firstly it lets him know that you're willing to talk if he ever decides to let his guard down, and two for things like for example, if you say hi when he looks at you and ask how he's doing or if he's alright, he knows your going to acknowledge, so he can either get friendlier or he can stop if he doesn't want it pointed out.

 

It helps because you maintain your confidence, you feel less awkward because you're being friendly and yourself, and it will either encourage or put him off - it might be worth a try.

 

Bear in mind that he may sometimes ignore you, or shuffle off, or quietly say hello, but he will get used to you, and that sometimes is a really good thing whichever way it goes.

 

Just a thought, but if you're not comfortable doing that then obviously, don't!

[unsureinlove]

I may try that….thanks. I thought about just throwing caution to the wind and just ask point blank. What's the worst that can happen? Right? LOL

 

I’ve tried SO hard to ignore that I’m so uncomfortable. I sit 10 feet away from this guy and I have to act like he doesn’t exist when all I really want to do it say ‘hey, I find you attractive and would like to get to know you’, but I just keep to myself.

 

And it’s hard NOT to sneak peeks.

 

It shouldn’t be so complicated!

[happpybear]

ya you could just have a moment with him, like take him aside and confess. It would make you feel better and he would likely be flattered. Can't say if he would run away, but if he does then you know without a doubt that is not the right guy for you. At least you could say you gave it your all right?

[Purusha]

It's no good if you're that uncomfortable, just be yourself - that's always a good call.

 

Everyone reacts to someone else's reactions, but by being yourself and not paying heed to his reactions you're not placing importance on it and highlighting it, and hopefully it'll help him be less self conscious and you be more confident. And let us know how it's going!

[unsureinlove]

So…..I’ve been put back into the non-existent world of my ‘shy’ guy. I guess 2 days had him stressed…LOL.

 

I went to get something out of my desk drawer….and there he was looking at me and I swear for 2 cents I wanted to say “if you can’t talk…turn yourself around and mind your own business” but I actually just chuckled because what else can you do.

 

If the situation wasn’t so ridiculous it would be almost comical….which (for whatever reason) I found it to be today.

[SA_Guy99]

Was out of town for most of the week, but I feel strongly about this from the shy perspective so I had to reply again...

 

I don't believe that shy guys do not understand women's flirtations

 

I'm one of these shy guys, and I sure as hell don't understand flirting. At all. Hints and signals DO NOT WORK!

 

 

I fail to see though how you can have empathy with a shy guy who feels that they're not good enough, confident enough, interesting enough to connect with a woman giving them an open invitation, and how you cannot have empathy with a woman who has developed feelings and put themselves out there for the other person to not meet them in the middle yet still continues the flirtation.

 

Again, the shy guy can't see that "open invitation"! The only thing that can be considered an open invitation to a shy guy is actually telling him you like him and would like to go on a date with him. It really is that simple.

 

What is really going on here, is that women who have this complaint are too scared to ask the guy out themselves (kind of ironic), or they are too stubborn in believing that it's up to the man to initiate everything.

 

 

In the kinds of situations that we've been discussing it is not clear that he doesn't feel the same way, as the attraction continues and the flirtation carries on this leaves the other person hanging, and possibly tying themselves up in knots about a guy who is unable to reciprocate.

 

Again (again), rather than try sending hints and signals, tell him you like him and ask him out. You will have your answer.

 

I do understand that shy guys have a crisis of confidence at the best of times, and this topic of conversation is bound to upset people to some degree, especially those with an already lowered sense of self worth.

 

I have zero issues with self worth, nor am I an unconfident person. I love who I am and I know I'm a great catch. I also have social anxiety and have had conversations with a counsellor about Aspergers Syndrome. A lot of us "shy guys", have legitimate mental issues that cause our lack of social skills and instincts. In fact, I will go as far to say that most shy guys do, but not everyone can see doctors and counsellors for help. To be ripped on for these issues (which people SHOULD know about shyness) does rub us the wrong way. I've worked hard at trying to control and hopefully one day get over my anxiety. So far with counselling and medication, it just hasn't happened yet.

[happpybear]

To be ripped on for these issues (which people SHOULD know about shyness) does rub us the wrong way.

 

You are taking this too personally. No one is ripping on you here. Keep in mind that many people do not want to date others with "issues" shy or otherwise, and that is a legitimate choice. This is why near the beginning of this thread, I stated that I now walk away from those men who present as being cripplingly shy. At my age, and the age of men I am looking to date, I want to date someone that has dealt with his shyness issues (because I have dealt with my own shyness issues) to the extent that he is capable of progressing to be able to communicate with me in a meaningful way in a reasonable time period (like days or weeks---not several months). I don't mind a certain amount of shyness, as long as with each encounter he gets less shy.

 

Shy one day, talkative the next, then shy again for a week, then talks, then ignores and runs away, then offers me cake, then ignores me for two weeks....this is crazy-making behaviour for the receipt. This stuff, the inconsistency, makes the recipient CRAZY. I'm going to say it again, it makes the recipient crazy...I realize that you are not doing it on purpose, but all that anxiety you feel as a shy person--you are causing that SAME ANXIETY in the recipient of your inconsistent attentions, do you understand that? It isn't about whether or not you understand the "signs" of flirting or not...Your own internal issues are essentially being projected onto someone else through inconsistent, confusing and often maddening behavior, and it often comes accross as purposeful mindf**kery (game playing of the worst kind). You must understand this as a tool to help you get over your issues. Just as you stated above that people SHOULD know about shyness, shy people need to examine there own actions and think about how their actions effect others. You need to get out of your own head and think about it. As Purusha mentioned in a previous post, being cognizant of the effect you are having on others may be helpful in you working to overcome your issues, as I am sure you don't purposefully want to cause others to think you are toying with them, or worse yet, figure that you are nuts and never talk to you again.

 

I know that this sort of thinking helped me, I realized that being awkward in my shyness when talking with others made them feel uncomfortable so they didn't want to talk to me because the awkwardness i felt inside made the situation awkward. I was essentially creating and awkward situation. Similarly, my long-time habit of avoiding and not looking at the men i was attracted to and who were attracted to me, made them think i was not interested and they would not ask me out. Once I realized that what i was putting out there (avoidance behavior in turn made them AVOID me) it really hit home that you get back the energy you put out there, like a boomerang.

[notafraid]

ohhh happpybear "purposeful mindf**kery" is exactly what it feels like. Wise words and great advice for ALL shy people.

[happpybear]

Thank you Unsure!

 

Hey so I was thinking about your predicament last night...this thread has been cathartic for me, I realized I still had some unresolved bad feelings about the similar situation that I was in.

 

So I don't know if this will help with moving on from him, but this is how I rationalized my situation and helped me get the willpower to avoid the guy and move on

 

I came to the conclusion that the guys behaviour came down to one of three scenarios:

 

1) He was not into me--I realized that I cannot try to date someone that was not into me. End of story. Need to move on.

 

2) He was playing an epic mind game---I realized if this was the case then he was a jerk and not boyfriend material, I can't date someone that willingly does this. End of story. Need to move on.

 

3) He is weirdly shy---Once again not boyfriend material because he needs to go through some serious personal growth/self discovery to deal with his issues and I can't and also more importantly--do not want to date that, and making that choice is ok, Just because he may like me, does not mean that I have to stick around indefinitely with my love-life on hold while he gets himself together.

 

So basically, all three of those choices made sense to me, and also made him undateable. Once I realized this, it was easier for me to avoid him, it wasn't really about "willpower" so much as realizing that he was not a suitable choice for me, so time to move on.

 

Now, I was still very much attracted to him physically, which i'm afraid can't really be stopped, it's all chemical. But just because my body was saying yes, doesn't mean that my head and heart had to follow suit. After I had rationalized in my head that he was not a good choice, I was able to mentally move on, but whenever I saw him I would still get butterflies and get fidgety...this was all due to physical attraction, so the avoidance was to prevent me from seeing him/interacting with him were I would present with signs of physical attraction. I am totally over the guy now, but I am sure that if I ran into again, It would affect me physically the same way.

[happpybear]

And to add to y previous post in response to SA Guy,

 

Just because you're shy, doesn't mean that others will see you that way, or should understand that and accommodate it. Your shyness is solely your own issue, and no one elses, to expect others to read your mind and accommodate you when they may not know you very well is absurd and I believe is a defense mechanism to prevent you from dealing with your problems.

 

When I was shy around others and created awkward situations, that was entirely my fault. I made things awkward. People didn't automatically assume I was shy, nor should they. I came off as rude or b*tchy, uninteresting and weird. Once I realized that it was entirely my behavior that caused the social problems in my life, and that others were not responsible for understanding me and handling me with kid gloves when I was being shy, that is when I started changing myself. It came with being honest with myself and others. When i was with people and felt weird i said so, like "sorry, i'm just being shy" or "big parties make me shy" or when dating I was upfront and would say "I'm shy at first, so probably won't kiss you on the first or second dates" or "sometimes when I am shy, I get a bit tongue-tied" When i stated who I was, people understood and either were willing to accommodate it, or walk away.

[unsureinlove]

I understand your point but as some of us have pointed out; look at from the recipients’ point of view. You are saying WE (not just women, but men as well) should just ask the ‘shy’ person to go out and we would have our answer.

 

First, I wouldn’t ask anyone out cold turkey I want to get to know them a bit first. That is where the issue is; again from the recipients’ point of view if I feel there is an attraction (and clearly there is/was with my guy) I want some interaction with this person. Unfortunately because there is no consistency with his behavior, one minute he appears out of nowhere to chat you up and the next time he sees you, you have become invisible….nonexistent to him. Why do you feel it’s up to us to approach someone who doesn’t seem approachable?

 

As a shy guy, when you have an attraction to someone (I hate to use crush cause it’s so juvenile) do you think about her feelings at all when you are giving (what we like to call) mixed signals? Do you even think about your ‘crush’ when she’s not around? I’m starting to wonder if this is something you all do because we just happen to be there at that moment and once gone you all move onto something else. I’m curious to know if the shy guy thinks about his attraction outside of the moment and what goes through his head…..enlighten us.

[unsureinlove]

Now, I was still very much attracted to him physically, which i'm afraid can't really be stopped, it's all chemical. But just because my body was saying yes, doesn't mean that my head and heart had to follow suit. After I had rationalized in my head that he was not a good choice, I was able to mentally move on, but whenever I saw him I would still get butterflies and get fidgety...this was all due to physical attraction, so the avoidance was to prevent me from seeing him/interacting with him were I would present with signs of physical attraction. I am totally over the guy now, but I am sure that if I ran into again, It would affect me physically the same way.

 

 

Yep….this is the problem…..I’m physically attracted to him. My head knows he is not the right guy for me. If you would see this guy you would KNOW he has some social issues you wouldn’t even have to talk to him…it’s that obvious but for whatever reason I find him “cute”.

 

I was going to take purusha’s advice and just be myself when I see him because I’m very outgoing, but I seem to lose that when I’m around him. It’s like I’m a completely different person, I’m nervous and I’m never nervous. If I ‘feel’ that he’s looking at me I can’t concentrate on my work and I get fidgety. I wear earbuds and listen to music most of the day to help the avoiding process it’s when I have to get up and go outside my workspace I get sucked back in either by me looking at him or him showing up.

 

Being able to vent in this thread has really help with putting things in perspective especially knowing I’m not alone.

[Purusha]

Hi SAGuy,

 

I know this may well be difficult for you as you're coming from a totally personal perspective, so it's sometimes really hard to take on board what other people are telling you and it can be infuriating as you obviously feel that you're not being heard.

 

I think I covered most of the points that you brought up above in my original post and illustrated that the condition of being shy is understood, however I feel you have misunderstood or ignored much of my post, so I won't repeat myself for the sake of it as I don't think that you can hear it right now, which I understand.

 

I also understand that people will have independent psychological problems such as yours, all of which cannot possibly be covered in this thread because of the sheer breadth of possibilities that the subject could cover.

 

We are talking about the general condition of shyness, not other mental issues - this is generally to do with insecurities, a feeling of inferiority, lack of self worth, and a lack of confidence - I wasn't talking about you in particular, I was talking in a general sense as this would apply to a high percentage of people. This is most often the root cause of social anxiety when other factors such as aspergers aren't present - social anxiety is extremely common in that sense and can be dealt with.

 

I'm sorry that you've taken offence to other people's feelings on this as it obviously affects you on a personal level, however I add on that if you are potentially on the aspergers spectrum this may well affect how much you can relate to somebody else's emotions and point of view and I would ask you to take this into account. Of course you don't have to, but it might help you to try and do so.

 

Other than this, you and I will have to agree to disagree, but that's fine - no'one can agree on everything.

 

I hope that your search for dealing with your own social anxiety is going well though, and it's great to hear that you're getting some help and possibly getting to the bottom of it (whether it does turn out to be aspergers or not) - I have fingers crossed that it will happen for you in time!

[Purusha]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out with being confident and friendly with him Unsure!

 

I totally understand where you and Happy are coming from re the physical attraction and that 'thing' about them that draws you in (although I think that 'thing' may be the imaginary person that you've invented in your own head!).

 

I don't know about you guys but often it made me feel like I was being judged and sized up, so the to-ing and fro-ing of looking, not looking, talking, not talking, smiling, not smiling made me question what I was doing wrong that made me unattractive and then attractive again, and it flung me into self doubt and feeling really self conscious when that person was around. This doesn't help with the old nerves!!

 

I suppose the turning point for me came when I got angry about it - I got angry, not with him, but with myself for allowing someone else's reactions to me to make me feel that way, so it enabled me to have less concern about what he was doing and well, frankly I thought - 'Scr*w this!! Why am I letting your reaction to me control how I feel?! I know who I am and I know better than this!!'

 

It can make you passive, reactional entirely to what they do and say, and you adjust your behaviour accordingly to compensate - this is NOT a good position to be in at any time with anyone!!

 

I just wasn't willing to do that any more - I think it's important to remember what normal human interactions are like, and if you second guess yourself and become unsure of something you want to say/do - think about what you would do with anyone else, and just do that. Take the focus off of the fact that it's him, and it's a weird situation.

 

I think the anger helped in that respect, I'm not generally an angry person, at all! But anger can be useful at times, it helps you to be more selfish when you need to be and to stop being so concerned about other people - if you're in any way have tendencies to be centred on how other people react to you, are a people pleaser, or just a big softie, this can really help you be more centred on you rather than them.

 

It kinda helps the guy (intermittently) get on a level of normal more frequently too as you pay no attention to the odd behaviour or whether they're hot or cold, and helps you to think less about it and analyse to death every eyebrow raise you may ever get! It was intermittent, some days I felt more 'together' than others, but overall it improved the situation.

 

It might take some time before you get as wound up as this though.

[happpybear]

oh yes i agree very much with this. I felt like I had totally lost control of my emotions, as it seemed my self-worth and happiness revolved around his behavior toward me. When he would walk right by me and say hi to others but not me i would feel crushed and like I just wasn't good enough, and then when he would actually stop by my desk and make a flirty joke I would be on cloud nine all day even though it was just a breadcrumb really.

 

I would tell my friends about it and one day one of my more candid friends said to me that she didn't recognize me anymore, and why was I letting this guys behavior dictate my emotional state? It hit me then and i felt like such an idiot. I had become so overwhelmed with the situation in a way that was totally alien to me. That's when i realized that it was the push-pull, the breadcrumbs of attention, the drama of it that was causing me to become totally crazy. It freaked me out because I have always been a really rational, down-to earth person who knows her own mind, but this situation brought something awful out in me that I still struggle to understand how it got the better of me.

[Purusha]

Isn't it good to know we're all idiots together?! It is totally bizarre, but I think it's telling that you, like me, have been shy (I still have problems with this but I try and face my demons!) and so we're prone to doubting our own worth, feeling insecure, whatever, and so maybe it's because it does take that much more for us to move out of that and put ourselves out there that this kind of rejection stings that little bit more?

 

Not that I'm saying naturally confident people NEVER feel this way, but just that if a person has tendencies in that direction, this can really exacerbate it and affect their self esteem.

 

I found my friends were equally as fascinated by the situation, but they got annoyed too when I would tell them how nervous, unsure of myself and all the rest of it that I'd become - I didn't realise until MUCH later on (this went on for quite a long time..!) that it was because they were people who got the best of me, and they could see the effect it was having, so they voted against. Looking back, I would've done exactly the same, hence the philosophy of 'if it makes you feel bad about yourself, don't do it'.

[happpybear]

I agree that this stuff hits shy people harder, I believe that shy people are naturally more sensitive and the shyness is a defense to protect that sensitive core so as not to get hurt,

[Wonderstruck]

I think this is excellent advice, and this is absolutely what I would do if I were in your situation, Unsureinlove.

 

I don't think you're "ready" to completely turn your back on this guy and shut him out, and I think that by trying to force yourself to do something that feels completely unnatural to you, like pretending not to notice him, trying to shut down conversations with him as soon as possible, and avoiding him, you're actually causing yourself a lot more stress and discomfort and making the situation harder on yourself.

 

I know there are certain situations where you HAVE to force yourself to ignore somebody and shut them out for your own peace of mind, even if it's difficult at first, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Not yet, anyway. I feel like, from what you've told us on this forum, this guy DOES like you and DOES have potential, and I feel like the best course of action is to do what feels natural and comfortable to you.

 

You're interested in him, and I feel like it might make you feel a lot better if you just acted very sweet, cheerful and enthusiastic around him. Honestly, I know this is going to sound strange, but I think that you can break him, and I mean that in a positive way. I think you just need to kind of "up the ante" and bring your "sweet, cheerful, friendly" A-game every time that you interact with him.

 

Obviously, if doing this just stresses you out and upsets you, then don't continue, but as it stands, you just don't sound ready to shut down and shut him out, and I'm not sure that he DESERVES to be shut out yet.

 

I would just hate to see you force yourself to do something that you're not actually ready to do or feel comfortable doing, and potentially miss out on an opportunity to be with someone who returns your interest. That being said, if he continues to blow hot and cold and play stupid mind games, then by all means, do what you need to do to preserve your sanity and mental well-being.

 

I don't mean to disregard happpybear's advice or experience in any way - she is one of the coolest, most down-to-earth people I've seen on this forum, and her advice has a lot of merit. I just thought I'd give my own perspective.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!