For all you 'shy' guys out there......

[mhowe]

While this may seem obvious...move on.

 

Imagine a relationship where you have to do all the work, because he "simply can't communicate". Where you have to take the lead on everything --- where to go to dinner, for holidays and vacations, every little thing.

 

Sounds exhausting to me.

[notafraid]

It’s interesting to me that so many women have encountered the same issues that I have with a shy guy. If we pursue…..we scare them off…..if we hang back and do nothing they think we’re not interested and give up.

 

What’s a girl to do……

 

I wish I knew, unsureinlove, I wish I knew...... But if I ever find out, I'll let you know!

[SA_Guy99]

The whole point of this post(s) is the fact that I (and a few others) have done just that! We have made it known to our shy guy that YES we ARE interested in you as well BUT.....we get NOTHING in return but ignored. This is what I am having an issue with. I very much like my guy and have (or at least I thought I had) made it clear to him and I feel I've been given the brush off. NOW how would it feel if the shoe was on the other foot and I gave my shy guy the brush off.....how do you think he would feel? My guess is just like me and all the other ladies out there that this has happened to.

 

1. If you have not either asked him out on a date or flat out told him that you like him, you've made nothing clear to him. Shy guys DO NOT understand hints and signals of any kind. If you're trying to use hints and signals, you're wasting your time. Sending hints and signals is not making an effort or making an approach when dealing with shy guys.

 

2. If you have done the aforementioned and he brushed you off, why have you not moved on? I won't feel sorry for anyone who feels like crap when they keep trying to pursue someone who clearly does not feel the same way.

 

Even though you (and other women) say you're not... You are totally throwing shy guys under the bus for who they are. Again, unless you've asked him out on a date or told him you like him in that way, you've done nothing.

[Anguish88]

I agree with SA_Guy99, and mhowe.

 

If you've made it very clear, and by that I mean just telling him outright that you'd be interested in a date sometime, not just getting flirty, and the guy still doesn't react then he wouldn't be the sort of person who'd provide you with a healthy relationship in the end.

 

I know males are meant to take the lead in these sort of things (and I agree they should, women deserve to feel like they are wanted, desired and worth chasing) but if it gets to the point where its having a noticeable negative effect on your emotional state (as some have suggested) then you're just going to have to be very blunt and direct about it to put an end to it one way or the other.

[SA_Guy99]

 

I know males are meant to take the lead in these sort of things (and I agree they should, women deserve to feel like they are wanted, desired and worth chasing)

 

Men don't deserve to feel that? This is where I disagree with the "norm". Everybody, man or woman, is responsible for their own happiness. If a man likes a woman, he should make the necessary effort. ALSO, if a woman likes a man, she should make the necessary effort... she shouldn't just sit back because it "should" be up to the man to chase her. That's what I call bulls***.

[Catherine]

Hiya SA_Guy99,

You make some very good points [wish I'd read this thread sooner] and I agree entirely that our happiness is our own responsibility and while encounters with shy people can cause us to become confused, obsessed and over-analytical - we can't place all blame on the shy person for all of that, and it isn't fair to get angry or bitter towards a shy person [male or female] for not approaching us if we can't directly and overtly approach them.

To add my two cents though, and I think some of the other people here have felt the same way, one of the most confusing and hardest parts of this situation is when you have directly approached a shy guy and asked him out and he brushes you off, so you decide to try to move on, but then he starts sending signals again that he actually is interested [and I don't just mean sideways glances and some such, but actually approaching you or engaging you more in conversation and seemingly flirting or trying to take the next step]. It makes it hard to move on mentally and emotionally if you still have feelings or a "crush" on the guy, even if you've decided to stop pursuing him, especially if you're stuck in a situation where you work with the guy or have to see him every day for some reason.

It is just hard - without blaming the shy guy [or the shy girl], it still is just hard.

[Anguish88]

In a perfect world it would be equal but it's not. I'm just saying as a male I don't have a problem taking the front foot if that's what's expected of me, if no one takes the front foot then these situations tend to happen. I don't think "shy guys" problems are the belief that women should be doing an equal share of the "asking out" which is holding them back (most would love to be taking the front foot), it's that fear they have which Sidehop was talking about.

 

Call me old fashioned (I'm 25 but I just feel it's my job as the man to get over that fear, show her that she is worth taking that step, and make her feel like she is special.

 

Thats why I feel a bit of sympathy for these women who try their hardest to get the point accross but it doesn't seem to work. I totally think a woman shouldn't have to throw herself at a man to get him to ask her out, but if it is carrying on to the point where it's making them unhappy then I think it's the only option.

[Purusha]

I understand that a lot of this is difficult for shy guys to hear, and I certainly don't think that the responsibility lies on one side alone, however, it is rarely recognised on this board the affects on the recipient of the shy behaviour and I do think that bringing it up will give some much needed comfort and insight to those going through the same thing which may help them make better emotional choices whether that's being more direct, or choosing to withdraw.

 

I don't believe that shy guys do not understand women's flirtations, I do believe that they choose not to trust them as they don't feel that they have the confidence to take it further, whether that's through casual conversation, connection or whatever. After all, many guys use the seem techniques themselves and consciously continue the flirtation as they can see in plain sight when they are being reciprocated or if someone is trying to take it further through conversation or invitations to group outings.

 

The difference is a lack of confidence and self esteem, and a huge amount of self doubt, and a subsequent withdrawal. Whilst understandable, as we are not in this world alone our behaviour does affect others.

 

This kind of escalation is often what makes them run, and so going from someone being afraid of talking to you it's a big leap to ask someone to ask the person out on a date, unless they're particularly confident themselves. If you are, all power to you.

 

I don't believe you can ask everything of one, and nothing of the other - this works for both men and women (in terms of building a connection, asking someone out on a date, reciprocating, saying hello, trying to move past your insecurities, whatever).

 

Trying to bridge a connection in a gentle way with a person who is sensitive and afraid is certainly making an effort, and often people make themselves more vulnerable than they normally would to allow that to happen.

 

I fail to see though how you can have empathy with a shy guy who feels that they're not good enough, confident enough, interesting enough to connect with a woman giving them an open invitation, and how you cannot have empathy with a woman who has developed feelings and put themselves out there for the other person to not meet them in the middle yet still continues the flirtation.

 

Both parties have feelings, and it's not up to either to make all of the effort themselves - in attraction, friendship, general conversation, any interaction with another person, it is totally natural for each party to feel that their company and attention is welcomed - this is not just a human trait, but is true of every species on the planet through body language, verbal language, tones, subsequent actions - this is basic in terms of forming a comfortable connection between two beings.

 

The fine line has to be drawn over whether this inability or reluctance to connect is something that can be overcome or not (and that can only be done through a situational judgement and how well you've managed to get to know the person), and being aware of how emotionally drawn in you are to this and the potential affects that this can have.

 

In the kinds of situations that we've been discussing it is not clear that he doesn't feel the same way, as the attraction continues and the flirtation carries on this leaves the other person hanging, and possibly tying themselves up in knots about a guy who is unable to reciprocate.

 

Understanding and empathy is needed on both sides in any relationship between people, and all interactions have to involve some sort of give and take to be on an equal playing field. Starting a relationship feeling bad about it is never a good thing.

 

I do understand that shy guys have a crisis of confidence at the best of times, and this topic of conversation is bound to upset people to some degree, especially those with an already lowered sense of self worth.

 

Whilst it might not be useful for you on your particular journey, it will be helpful to those who have developed feelings for someone who cannot (for whatever reason) connect with them and help them to cope with it, maybe find a solution, and if not the possible reasons behind it, in order to resolve their feelings and move on.

 

These comments were never intended to be a sleight to anyone with shyness and confidence problems, as I don't believe that your behaviour makes you who you are, it is only how you choose to express yourself (or not) - to me there's a big difference between the two.

 

Life is not black and white, people are complex which gives us the great rainbow of variety that we see all around us, and whether you're at the extroverted or introverted range of the spectrum everyone has something to give and their own unique way of expressing it. It's just finding yourself within that and finding people that you can connect with.

 

I agree with you totally that only you are responsible for your own happiness, and I would certainly take that as an indicator that if you don't feel that and you're relying on the other person for that happiness you're off course.

 

This is patently a sensitive subject which I'll leave alone now as I think everything has been said, but best of luck to anyone dealing with this situation and to the shy people in learning how to express themselves, it's a tough journey sometimes but one worth taking.

[unsureinlove]

So I’m reading through everyone’s posts and you ALL have some GREAT points which I have totally appreciated.

 

In thinking back, I have a feeling MY ‘signals’ ‘hints’ whatever you would like to call them were probably very subtle. The few times we actually had a conversation, he was the one to show up/FOLLOW me, but I usually started the convo. NOW, I decided to follow him one day and start a convo, it went OK, but it was like ‘see you later’ so I felt like I was brushed off…and maybe I was. At that point I thought OK…he’s just doesn’t like me even though he was the one (in his own slow way) giving signals. I didn’t start this, he did. And that is why I started this thread. I was willing to meet this guy half way, but I wasn’t sure how he felt because one minute he was around being friendly and the next like a ghost, so I didn’t want to put myself in a position of making a complete fool of myself.

 

I think this is a moot point because he hasn’t said anything to me for a while and I have decided to take everyone’s advice and just let this go. It’s a shame because I am attracted to him and would have liked to have gotten to know him better. OH well....his loss.

[unsureinlove]

This was beautifully written!!!!

[happpybear]

Best post ever!

[jonny15]

there are other guys out there that are willing and able to show you how they feel about you without you having to guess every other minute as to whether “does he or doesn’t he”.

 

Isn't this the same process men have to go through everytime?

 

I guess it's only right when men have to do it.

[tmp110314]

You have to understand the typical 'shy guy' syndrome and its roots which is very much similar that makes them look like they are playing games but in reality they are not. etc...

 

Great post. I relate to most everything in this post, especially the parent relationship during my childhood years.

 

No sympathy hunting here, so please understand that there was a lot of this behavior going on when my generation was growing up.

 

My mother was an abuser. She had a horrific temper.

 

My father, then a policeman, was rarely home due to his job, especially when he was promoted to detective when I was about 5.

 

My mother had four children to deal with and had emotional problems in which she sought medication for from a couple of GP's. Darvon and Valium were like candy to her for a number of years. Yet, she had the energy to beat the tar out of me at every opportunity.

 

I wasn't a particularly difficult child to deal with. I was actually the 'runt of the litter' even though I was number 3 in the group. Fast forward through all this, I had become a pleaser to her. I did everything that I could to not cross her path and yet the whippings, most were very severe, continued with little provocation.

 

Then, my father died when I was 11 (he was 44). No father at all. No uncles to help out, they just didn't come around after my father died. The abusive behavior by my mother continued through my teenage years until I ran away from home at 17. When I was 16, she remarried some jerk that she knew for two months and she was going to give him full power to discipline us (my younger brother and I) as she wanted. She put the fear of 'you know who' in us by telling us that her new husband was going to beat us now. He attempted, but, I don't know where the courage came from, but I let him know that if he touched me it would be the sorriest moment of his life. He backed off, but, he was now on a campaign to make life miserable.

 

By the time I was 17, I was turned into a shy introvert. If it hadn't been for going into the military when I was 18, I would no doubt ended up a recluse.

 

I did end up very shy around women in particular. I met my first wife in a USO. I guess I was giving off that shy beacon. I showed interest in her, however, I was terrified to approach her. She approached me and invited me to a dance with a group of people and I accepted. She left the dance with another guy (a married man with a family). I didn't return to that USO for three months. I just hung out on the ship I was stationed on.

 

Oh boy, sorry, this has turned out to be such a novel.

 

I guess my intent here is to document that there is a lot of validity to the deep issues surrounding shyness, no matter what gender we may be. Would counseling help overcome this shyness? More than likely. But, we have to recognize that we need that counseling. Many of us, especially at younger ages, do not recognize that counseling is needed until someone tells us that.

 

I've outgrown my shyness, for the most part. I've come to recognize the signals that women emit if they are interested. But, it took many years to get to this point.

 

Now, a lot of the posters on here are saying that they feel that men should take the lead in the romantic situations. I have a big question here though. Keep in mind that I'm an older male (childhood in the 50s, teen in the 60s and adult beginning in the 70s). I've lived through all sorts of changes in our society where women exerted more of their desire to be equal with men in every respect. It is even now legislated that women have an equal footing as men. The old Virginia Slims commercials, "You've come a long way baby!" inferring the power level that women have achieved. Women insisting that it is sexist for a man to open car doors, open doors to buildings, assist with chairs in a restaurant, etc.... Yes, assisting with chairs. I heard a woman speak loudly to her date saying something to the effect that, "Do you think I am an invalid and can't seat myself?."

 

The big question is, What is the truth?

 

All these mixed signals coming from women. Especially in the military environment. I didn't dare open a door for a military woman. That was an unthinkable insult.

 

So, as a result, a lot of guys retreated and eventually learned that women want equal everything, so, why not let them take the lead more often. Another poster referenced that it is exhausting to have to take the lead continually. I can attest to that. I've been expected to make all the decisions in my married life. Then, have to endure endless "I don't want to do that" or "I don't like to eat there" to almost everything I suggest. I'm totally exhausted making all the decisions and getting nothing but constant pushback. So, I started refusing to make the decisions and, lo and behold, did I catch a bunch of crap over never making decisions and she has to make all of them. If only she could hear herself and review whom had been making all of the decisions over the years.

 

I really apologize for the ranting here, but, this thread really touched a nerve. All I can say here for shy people, we have to work hard at overcoming the shyness. It will not get us anywhere. I had to learn to put a 'filter' in between me and the person that I was feeling shy around and talk to the 'filter' until I overcame the timidness and felt more comfortable talking directly to them. It's hard, but doable.

 

Sorry, I'm in need of some caffeine and soak my fingers Thanks for putting up with this.

[Purusha]

And here was me saying I wouldn't post again..!! haha! I loved your post DJohnM and you have raised valid questions.

 

I think these posts have touched everyone's nerves! And for me, this was never a men versus women question. The question for me was about one person showing interest and the other person not being able to meet them in the middle (regardless of gender - guys have equally as many problems with shy women) due to shyness. This seems to have become skewed into an argument about how each gender behaves, which I don't think was the original point other than the fact that the original poster happened to be a woman, and the shy person happened to be a man.

 

Aside from these particularly common scenarios in terms of one person being unable to ascertain level of interest enough to make a more assertive move, I do feel that it's beyond the scope of these forums to generalise to such an extent.

 

I can only answer individually, and even as a shy person myself, I don't mind making the moves at all as long as I am aware that the level of interest and the type of interest is there. Ie, if I'm interested in casual dating, a hook up, a relationship - the sense that the person is looking for a similar kind of relationship and that the interest is there is paramount.

 

From my experience as a woman, and I know this is going always to a certain degree subjective and experiential, I see women as the ones who 'set it up'. They set the scenario for any encounter to happen - this is how you get your 'in'. Depending on how assertive the woman is depends on the kind of moves she'll make.

 

These are typical things I will do if I'm interested in someone:

 

1. All the basics - talking, smiling, making a point of deepening the relationship so that I can get to know you.

2. If the above goes well, I'll invite you to a group outing, or something that we're both interested in if I feel comfortable enough with you to be one on one.

3. When we get one on one, there'll be more intimate conversations about who we are, what we're about, establishing commonalities.

4. This graduates on to touching, to establish the relationship and confirm that invading a certain amount of personal space is ok.

5. Throughout this process, both of our body language, how we communicate, will all be important to tell me what you want and how interested you are.

6. Depending on how you react to all of the above will show me how willing you are for me to take it further (ie, go for the snog!)

 

This is the way women will take the lead when they're interested, from my experience, they will not approach you 'cold' before they know you a little. Some I have known will, but I have to say the majority don't.

 

In terms of the feminist issue, this is purely individual - there is no one divine truth and you can only go on the woman that you're getting to know. If their views on this issue of what they find acceptable and what they don't, don't sit well with how you are and what you're comfortable with, find someone who you're more compatible with.

 

You can legislate all that you want, but I think that you have to remember that the genders are different by nature - we haven't been legislated to be the same. We are essentially animals, and like every species we have a courtship dance. This is what people mean when they say 'celebrate the differences' and don't expect everyone to be the same. Equality does not mean homogenous.

 

My point of view on it is that regardless of our socio-economic equality, women have more to lose than men when it comes to 'taking a chance' in partnerships from a purely biological level (pregnancy and less physical strength), and so we are more careful when we are looking for a partner and we assess more when we are looking for a partner. If we're more sure of you and who you are, then likely we will be more assertive but again this will involve us getting to know you on a more personal level (hence the problems with shy men).

 

This is my take on what the ladies on this forum are really saying, it's not so much that they expect men to take the lead, but they do want to be able to get to know them for who they are so that they can feel in some way secure of your interest enough to make a bolder approach, without this, it's unlikely to happen. Not impossible, but unlikely.

 

One thing I would like to say to the shy guys out there, is that one thing that you NEVER have to be ashamed of is your shyness. The thing that draws ladies in is that you are sensitive, aware, courteous and you wait until you're invited - this is a good thing. The problem is, that you're too embarrassed to show it.

 

I would echo what DJohnM has said in that if it is debilitating for you to that degree, try and get some help, because in an of itself shyness is not the problem, it's your insecurity about being shy that's the problem.

 

Only men admire alpha men, it is all a lie that you need to wise up to.

[Purusha]

As an afterthought, I cannot emphasise enough how important being able to talk to a girl is, or being open to her invitations - she really doesn't care that you blush, that you talk cr*p, it's the process of getting to know you, which is what she wants.

 

Also, bear in mind that you're likely so involved in your own embarrassment of your feelings that she is too, but you're so wrapped up in it that you can't see it (tunnel vision when you have insecurities is extremely common) - this is where paying attention to the other person and not yourself will often pay off, you're likely to see more valuable information than if you shut off to the world.

 

In not hiding your shyness you're basically saying that you are interested in who she is, that you want to have fun with her, that you want to spend time with her - hopefully, you'll have fun too with this aspect!

[tmp110314]

A big intercontinental hug to you from accross the 'pond'. I hope my rant didn't contribute to this feeling like it is men vs. women.

 

I'm going to keep your post and label it 'Getting Unshy 101'. These are the things that guys are not taught, or at least I wasn't, as we grow up. Nature kicks in when we are interested in women and, for some of us, a plethora of stupid stuff kicks in and messes us up.

 

I would wholeheartedly endorse to ALL males, if you see a woman that you are interested in, just say 'Hi, my name is .......' and see where it goes. If she gets sick on your shoes, then you know for sure she's not interested. Just get a new pair of shoes and try again, but, don't give up.

 

Being a gentleman is something that I espouse very dearly. I love treating a woman as a princess. That's the way I was brought up and that is something that wasn't legislated out of me and the feminists couldn't get me to give it up if they tied me to a stake with a brassiere and burned me.

 

So ladies, please endure some of our shyness and help us out of the slump. If you see the shy signals and you are interested, meet us half way at least. Once that wall is broken down, the possibilities are endless.

 

Please don't give up on us. Thank you Perusha.

[mhowe]

Shyness can be very "controlling" --- but it can be overcome. I was painfully shy as a child and adolescent. No one in my family was. And it bothered me that everyone else seemed to be having way more fun because they would just get up and get involved. So, when I went away to college, I made myself a vow:

 

No one knows I am shy. So I will "act" NOT SHY until I am not anymore.

I won't kid you --- it was hard. For months and months, I was not in my "comfort zone".

And then one day I realized....I wasn't "acting" anymore.

 

And I absolutely guarantee you, if you asked anyone at my school if I was a "shy girl", they would laugh in your face.

[tmp110314]

Sorry Purusha, I have a typo in your name in my last post.

[Purusha]

Ahh a big hug to you too!! I LOVE your posts!!

 

I doubt very much ladies will give up on shy guys, just hopefully they'll take one step forward when we do. The key thing is recognising when that happens!

 

I would recommend to any guy to do a bit of research on the signals girls give out - I've given you a few very general ones here but there is so much out there that would help you.

 

I've spoken to what I have no doubt, you would call 'alpha males' who would have no clue what the women are doing, I kid you not. These are good looking, (urgh I hate saying this) 'high status' guys who you would no doubt think had no trouble with women, but believe me, they don't know squat about the seduction techniques that women use.

 

Don't look up 'how to get a girl', research how women try to attract a guy, there's a lot more detail and will give you more information. But once again, the most important thing is to be able to connect, say hi, be unashamed of who you are, no'one else is.

 

And for the record, I love a gent and know many women that do, but at the end of the day it's what YOU feel comfortable with. xx

[Purusha]

Shyness can be very "controlling" --- but it can be overcome. I was painfully shy as a child and adolescent. No one in my family was. And it bothered me that everyone else seemed to be having way more fun because they would just get up and get involved. So, when I went away to college, I made myself a vow:

 

No one knows I am shy. So I will "act" NOT SHY until I am not anymore.

I won't kid you --- it was hard. For months and months, I was not in my "comfort zone".

And then one day I realized....I wasn't "acting" anymore.

 

And I absolutely guarantee you, if you asked anyone at my school if I was a "shy girl", they would laugh in your face.

 

I hear you mhowe (and can empathise completely), I have been told that I come accross as an extrovert and when people get to know me they realise I'm an introvert. It happens.

 

The important thing is recognising when you have arrived at your truth, not what is expected, or demanded, or what you think you should be, just be what is - this takes time and experience to be able to express it.

[judder86]

This is may be the greatest topic I have seen on the internet. Thank you fellow posters for writing here and sharing your wisdom.

[unsureinlove]

Well….so much for avoiding. My ‘shy’ ghost made a guest appearance to say Hi and ask me, what I thought was a dumb question….I’m guessing he didn’t know what else to say to me.

[Wonderstruck]

Well….so much for avoiding. My ‘shy’ ghost made a guest appearance to say Hi and ask me, what I thought was a dumb question….I’m guessing he didn’t know what else to say to me.

 

What was the question? Was it a work-related question that you thought he could have figured out on his own? Maybe he was using it as an excuse to talk to you!

 

How did he act when asking it? Shy, nervous, excited, calm, indifferent? Did he try to keep the conversation going afterwards or did he run away?

[happpybear]

even if he seeks you out, you just have to turn off the feeling and go about it like he is every other coworker. That's what I had to do too, i still had to do work related stuff with the guy, and even had to go on a work lunch with him and some others colleagues. I was not happy about having to interact with him, so i made sure to sit away from him, kept chitchat to a minimum and politely excuse myself quickly, part of me would have loved to talk with him all day, but i had resloved not to get involved, as well the utter confusion i felt with regards to his behaviour toward me made me not trust any of his overtures as being anything other than polite office stuff. I knew that any convo I would have would raise my hopes, but then the subsequent 2 weeks of silence/ignoring would have me in a tailspin as to whether he was not into me or just playing a game. I had to end that cycle.

 

Have you looked into online dating? asked your friends if they know any single men?

[notafraid]

This is may be the greatest topic I have seen on the internet. Thank you fellow posters for writing here and sharing your wisdom.

 

I know. I agree. I can't say how much all of this is helping me!