For all you 'shy' guys out there......

[SA_Guy99]

First, I wouldn’t ask anyone out cold turkey I want to get to know them a bit first. That is where the issue is; again from the recipients’ point of view if I feel there is an attraction (and clearly there is/was with my guy) I want some interaction with this person. Unfortunately because there is no consistency with his behavior, one minute he appears out of nowhere to chat you up and the next time he sees you, you have become invisible….nonexistent to him. Why do you feel it’s up to us to approach someone who doesn’t seem approachable?

 

From everything I've been taught in my dating struggles, going on a date IS how you get to know the person. Even if you don't want to see getting to know him as dating, you still need to tell him that you want to get to know him. The rare successes I've had dating (which is pretty much all online) were when I knew for a fact (because she told me) that she wanted to get to know me better, or something to that effect. That drove my confidence in dating through the roof and I even did the asking out after that.

 

As a shy guy, when you have an attraction to someone (I hate to use crush cause it’s so juvenile) do you think about her feelings at all when you are giving (what we like to call) mixed signals?

 

This is where the understanding of the shy guy gets cloudy from the woman's perspective. Shy guys don't send signals. If you're reading any kind of a signal, mixed or not, it's completely unintentional and you're reading something that's just not there. I've not once sent a signal to a woman I have had a crush on. I don't know how to. It's not part of my social instincts (or lack thereof).

 

Do you even think about your ‘crush’ when she’s not around? I’m starting to wonder if this is something you all do because we just happen to be there at that moment and once gone you all move onto something else. I’m curious to know if the shy guy thinks about his attraction outside of the moment and what goes through his head…..enlighten us.

 

I'm thinking that hopefully next time we're in the same spot, she might say something to me that will wake up my subconsciousness (much like saying she wants to get to know me better)... When I'm around a woman I'm attracted to (I'm talking an actual "crush", not just random women I find visually appealing), my brain shuts off. I don't go into a heart-pounding panic like a lot of people with anxiety do, my mind just goes blank. It's like being on autopilot with zero instincts working. I don't know how else to describe it.

[SA_Guy99]

I'm sorry that you've taken offence to other people's feelings on this as it obviously affects you on a personal level, however I add on that if you are potentially on the aspergers spectrum this may well affect how much you can relate to somebody else's emotions and point of view and I would ask you to take this into account. Of course you don't have to, but it might help you to try and do so.

 

I am actually quite empathetic, but not for this. I'm sorry, but I just cannot hear that shy guys are to blame for making some women feel like crap in this sense and then feel bad for them when I know from first-hand experience that shy guys don't send signals. You don't have to buy that, but I'm also not trying to sell it. If you have been verbal in telling a guy you want to get to know him better and he doesn't reciprocate, then move on! Being shy, legitimately anxious (and possibly with Aspergers), I'm limited to online dating if I wish to make a real effort at communication. Being what online dating is (real ****ing frustrating), the advice I get when frustrated is to not dwell on the ones who don't reciprocate, and to cast them aside. Some reply once or twice then stop talking, some stop talking within a rather great conversation and most don't reply at all. The advice I get is to just move on when reciprocation isn't there.... so my advice to women who can't get reciprocation from a shy guy after being VERBAL with him, is to move on. I just can't feel sorry for you if you don't.

[happpybear]

...Aaaannd I think am going to have to respectfully remove myself from this thread, I will not be posting here anymore.

 

Cheers to you SA-Guy, hope you manage to work through your issues and dating becomes easier for you!

 

Unsureinlove, you can PM me if you want to chat further about your troubles

 

-Peace

[Purusha]

Hey SA,

 

This is an issue that we're never going to agree on I think!

 

I don't think anyone is entirely blaming shy guys, but it has been said that they are responsible for their issues, as we all are. We've all agreed that we're responsible for how we feel hence people are swapping experiences and looking for a way to handle the situation - if you read back through the posts people are generally saying that responsibility lies on both sides, not just one. The frustration that you see from the recipient's point of view is them trying to understand what's going on and how to deal with it.

 

I do feel that you're latching on to the idea that women are expecting men to ask them out all the time and that we're not being direct enough, even though you've been told time and time again that it isn't the case and what the person is asking for is response, not action. When the shy person is approached and runs away but continues the flirtation (which we'll disagree on anyway as you believe that shy people are incapable of any flirtation), it is often because the person is too nervous and insecure to be able to deal with the situation, and in this case the assessment of whether or not they are therefore relationship material is debatable because it points to deep issues that would cause problems in dating.

 

Often, by that point, the other person is attached in some way - maybe because they want to understand, they want to connect and reassure the shy person that it's ok, they see sensitivity and a depth in that person (because of the depth of their insecurity) and they want to reach out to them, whatever. The point is that the attachment is there, and it can be difficult to let go especially when the flirtation does continue - you may not empathise or understand this aspect, but it's there nonetheless and that's what we're trying to deal with.

 

This may be an experience that you can't understand or have not had (especially not as a recipient), and that's fine, but it doesn't invalidate the experience for someone else or the effects that it has on them.

 

The head can rationalise and tell you that they're not a good match, but the heart reaches out to try and heal the situation - it's human nature to do this for many people (not universal of course, but very common), whether you approve, understand, or can empathise or not.

 

And no, I'll never buy that shy guys don't send signals, don't understand signals, and are not responsible in any way for their behaviour, again we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. In saying this I'm not pinning blame on the shy person as they're only behaving in a way that is natural for them whether they have issues or not, what I am saying is that their behaviour impacts another voluntarily or not, and that's what we're dealing with here. The question isn't of blame, but it's how we deal with the fall out.

 

I totally agree that the ideal situation is to be able to move on from it, however for the reasons given above (which are not exhaustive by any means as a lot of it is situational) this is often difficult for people and I would also say that with online dating where there is no actual life interaction with the person it is far easier to cut them off because there's no behaviour to have to deal with after deciding to do this, and you don't have to see them or have any more interaction with them.

 

I do understand your point of view and I'm sure that your insight will give people some help in understanding, however so as not to derail the point of this thread we should really keep on topic with the ops question.

[Purusha]

...Aaaannd I think am going to have to respectfully remove myself from this thread, I will not be posting here anymore.

 

Cheers to you SA-Guy, hope you manage to work through your issues and dating becomes easier for you!

 

Unsureinlove, you can PM me if you want to chat further about your troubles

 

-Peace

 

Aah happy, there are some different opinions to be sure - sometimes good to let them be eh? Thank you for sharing your experiences though, I think it's been invaluable for a lot of people to heard them and know that they're not alone and to hear ways of coping! xx

[unsureinlove]

Thank you G&G.

 

You’re right, if I had to be honest with myself and the other ladies here (who by the way have been wonderful) I would have to say that trying to get to know this guy to see if there could be anything between us would be what I want….period!

 

I usually have very good ‘women’s intuition’ and I have ‘felt’ that there could be something there for some time now….it is a very strong attraction for me, one that I have not felt in a LONG time. I don’t even think I felt this with my ex husband.

 

Now comes the ‘logical’ more ‘sensible’ part of me that is saying ‘maybe it’s just me and my imagination’. Because I’ve never dealt with anyone who didn’t come right out and show their interest. This is all foreign to me. As I’ve stated I’m pretty outgoing and talkative and can usually strike up a conversation with anyone about anything. With him I’m not sure what to say most of the time because I never wanted to overstep and make him uncomfortable which in turn made/makes me uncomfortable.

 

Those of you who have read my posts know that we sit next to each other so I have been able to observe some of his behaviors….well….by sneak peeking…over the months…LOL. One day, we hadn’t spoken in a while and I was getting ready for lunch (had a feeling he knew when I went to lunch each day) I was ready to walk out of my workspace when all of the sudden I noticed HE grabbed his lunch and flew out of his workspace at the same time I did….and for what….to say Hi to me.

 

I realize that this all could mean nothing, but why go through all the trouble? Personally if he was just a coworker who I had no interest in other than we work in the same office, I would NOT be going out of my way to (a) randomly seek him out for a conversation, I would just say Hi maybe some small chit chat if I casually happen to run into him. (b) I would NOT go out of my way to avoid him, even if I didn’t care for him, if I happen to see him in the kitchen I would NOT turn around a high tale it like he had the plague like he’s done to me. I would simply go do my business of whatever I was going to do and move on. © He would not affect me in the least while I was in my workspace, it would be business as usual. I would not be fidgety and looking around like a nervous cat if he happens to be looking my way, after all….why would I care, he’s just working and just happens to be facing my way. But every time I am working on the other side of my desk, which I would be facing in his direction, this is what he does (yes I noticed this because I WAS looking at him). Now I’m doing the same when I feel him looking at me….crazy.

 

Sorry for my long post but just need to get it out of my system!

[unsureinlove]

I’m sorry you have not had much success in your dating, but I have to respectfully disagree about shy guys not being able to give signals. I think they are perfectly able to and do; they may just be a bit more subtle than a more outgoing guy would be. NOW, they may not be able to READ signals and I guess maybe we should/could be a little more direct in that case, but that goes both ways too.

 

If you say when you encounter a woman you are interested in, your mind goes blank why in the world would that women want to talk to you? You would seem closed off and unapproachable and I’m sorry but that is not appealing to most women no matter how attractive you may be.

 

I don’t think your particular issues are true for ALL shy guys….sorry….you cannot clump them into one category. There are different levels of shyness.

[unsureinlove]

...Aaaannd I think am going to have to respectfully remove myself from this thread, I will not be posting here anymore.

 

Cheers to you SA-Guy, hope you manage to work through your issues and dating becomes easier for you!

 

Unsureinlove, you can PM me if you want to chat further about your troubles

 

-Peace

 

Happpybear…..this makes me very UNHAPPY. I started this thread as a way to vent my thoughts about my own situation and I have received some GREAT responses from some seemingly wonderful people and you are definitely one of them. Although I completely understand (and maybe you will one day reconsider) but I would still like to keep in touch.

[Purusha]

^^^ Seconded. Big stylee. xx

[unsureinlove]

Well…since I seem to have nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon I decided to peruse some of the other threads here and came accross something VERY interesting and also very hard to take.

 

It may seem that my ‘shy’ guy may not be shy at all…he may be an introvert….

I’ve done some reading and WOW…..if he truly is an introvert he will be a LOT HARDER to get close to. I mean this is not just “I’m too shy to talk to you” this is “I don’t want to talk to you unless you have something worthwhile to say”. Apparently they don’t like ‘small talk’ and will walk away from it….my guy to a tee.

 

So now the question becomes “can an introvert be interested enough to want to date an extrovert”?

 

link removed

[Purusha]

Hey unsure,

 

Oh yes, Sunday internet trawling... a favourite activity of mine too!

 

Well, I know many people who are introverted (er.. in fact, many of my friends are come to think of it, with a few extroverts thrown into the mix) and I think there are different measures of introvert and extrovert in each person, but generally speaking it can be really difficult to drill it down by saying oh, that person is an introvert, and this explains their entire nature - there is just too much variety in people. It really depends on whether his introversion causes him anxiety in any way - in this case this would illustrate that he is shy, bearing in mind that he may also be an introvert as well as being shy, just to complicate matters! Simple eh!? haha!

 

Introverts generally need space and down time to recharge - this can work quite well with an extrovert who understands and respects this as they usually have a lot going on and can go off and do something else - 2 introverts together can sometimes (depending on the people of course.. this is a HUGE generalisation) exacerbate the situation and they can become too isolated, as an extrovert, this is less likely to happen as you'll want to get out and about more and this will help them.

 

It depends on whether you also think this would work for you, whether you could deal with someone who sometimes isn't available because they need to switch off - think about whether you need someone with more consistent energy, else you'll likely get frustrated.

 

I would quibble over the small talk thing, many are happy to do small talk, as long as it builds into a more meaningful conversation - they're not fond of it but do recognise it as a necessary evil to getting to know someone. Mind you in saying that, most people I know (intro and extro) can't do it for long before it gets incredibly boring - all a part of developing relationships I guess.

 

I would say as well though, that don't focus on whether 'you have something worthwhile to say' - qualify your own interest, don't look to others for this, you don't have to prove yourself.

 

With people like this, I'd usually advise to not push it - don't try and force something that they're not ready for or are rallying against as everyone can only do things at their own pace - if he is shy, introverted, or both this may be slower than you'd like.

 

After that ramble.. oops! Then yes, for sure I think that an introvert and extrovert can work really well, it just depends on the people and the situation.

[Purusha]

Found quite a good chart to give very general differences between shy, introvert, extrovert and obnoxious:

 

link removed

 

Obviously, is very general, this stuff can get pretty complex as it is the psyche, but it does give you something general to go on.

[unsureinlove]

I have been reading quite a lot on being an introvert today and the more I read the more I think this is my guy. I often wondered and questioned his behavior and could never quite put my finger on it. I just automatically thought shy/introvert were one in the same…..I was wrong!

 

If he is truly an introvert, I feel having a better understanding of his behavior may help with me getting to know him better. My gut is telling me there is a mutual interest there, where it might go I don’t know, but I feel like if I give up I may lose out on a good thing. I know crazy right?

 

Even though I am outgoing, I’m not sure I would call myself an extrovert because I too like my alone time to do things I enjoy doing. I don’t always have to be entertained by someone. I’m not a party girl nor am I a big crowd person. I do however enjoy going out with my friends and doing something fun every now and then.

 

I have no problem with slow and steady; I’ve said that from the beginning I believe in one of my other posts. I do however worry about the ‘small talk’ as I’ve been reading they don’t like small talk. I don’t know of any other way to get to know someone other than making small talk at first until you can learn what they like. I know he likes to read.

[Purusha]

No, def not crazy at all! There's nothing wrong with seeing where things could go!

 

The only way to find common ground really is a little bit of small talk, but you can be observant and try and notice things that he likes, or a subject he likes and ask questions etc that get you on more common ground - obviously mutual interests are best so that you don't have to feign enthusiasm!!

 

Does anyone you work with know him a bit better so that you can get a bit more info on what he's into?

 

I have a few introvert tips!! :

 

* I think getting used to the ebb and flow of his energies is good, so if he's not really responsive and doesn't seem up for talking then just let it be, and embrace the chatty times.

* Try and be comfortable with silences and try not to fill it when it doesn't seem natural (I know this is hard, but forcing it is draining for you and for him and adds pressure) - he may fill them himself, as sometimes the brain just needs to process what to say, if he feels you're ok with this it will give him more confidence.

* Above all, be yourself - by allowing you're accepting, and he will feel that there's no pressure to be perfect - this also gives you the confidence boost that you need in order to accept whether it can be taken forward or not, be open minded about who he is, at this point he is an open book.

* Active mutual interests are good, it takes the pressure off interactive relationships and focusses on an outside task.

* Involve other people, even if he's quiet in the group - don't be afraid to speak whilst he's around, it shows that you want him to be involved in your life and friends and will help him to feel included instead of being an isolated situation with him.

* Voluntarily tell him things about your life - we tend to start by asking questions rather than volunteering information, often introverts won't give you much detail and it makes them feel more secure if you talk about your life and what you do rather than the reverse. After volunteering, it's easier to get more open answers about who he is and what his life's about.

 

I can't think of anything else right now, but if I do I'll re-post!!

[notafraid]

Purusha thanks for posting, your information and advice has helped me as well!

[Purusha]

Thanks for the comment and I'm glad it's helped a bit notafraid! It's been really good to know I'm not the only one that's had these kind of situations, and hearing the way other people have handled it has been really useful! Always good to know you're not alone and more crazy than you actually are

[unsureinlove]

Well….as it turns out my ‘woman’s intuition’ was not right on….if fact I think it’s been on vacation the past few months. And as for my gut feeling…..well I think that’s been on vacation as well.

 

I’m not getting the same ‘vibe’ I once did from my guy so I think he either was not interested, was interested but has moved on or maybe has found someone…..that is what my gut is telling me now.

 

urusha, I do appreciate all the advice you have posted, I’m thinkin I don’t much need it now. I think what I need now is a good stiff drink and some dark glasses to wear to work every day to keep from sneaking peeks.

[Purusha]

Hey unsure,

 

Sorry you're feeling down has anything happened or has it just made you bummed out?

 

Chin up buttercup xx

[unsureinlove]

Hey unsure,

 

Sorry you're feeling down has anything happened or has it just made you bummed out?

 

Chin up buttercup xx

 

I’m not sure what’s changed; I can’t put my finger on it. I think he’s in a chat room all day, for some reason I noticed when I walked past. I always thought that little screen he had up was part of his job but nope he’s in a chat room which I guess I find odd for someone like him.

[Purusha]

These things do vary (read the backward, forward, backward, forward experiences from everyone else). I suppose it's the nature of it, they're so hard to read that it's difficult to know where they're coming from in the first place - leaves it so open for misinterpretation and/or just simple frustration.

 

Sometimes chatting by text or internet is easier for the introverted/shy types - takes the social etiquette out of the equation so it's not so stressful.

 

It sounds like this is really starting to get you down, so maybe walking away is the best thing to do.

 

There are things that I realised about my shy guy, which might give you some context:

 

*He displays all the classic shy stuff that we've been talking about here.

 

*Through getting to know him and his family I discovered he has really HUGE deep seated issues due to a very dysfunctional family.

 

*He sends out mixed signals to women all the time (he doesn't realise this) because his confidence is very fragile, and it shows because the times he feels ok, he'll talk, when he's not, he won't. This comes accross as the classic push/pull flirting scenario. This is just one example of how his lack of confidence/self esteem issues come accross as flirty behaviour, and his not realising this gives out mixed signals.

 

*He really is not in a position to have a relationship with someone without it becoming dysfunctional because he ignores his problems and doesn't deal with any of it.

 

*I also discovered that because he's backward in coming forwards, there is a level to which I would never know him, because he's afraid of being judged or belittled or rejected, he selectively hides, alters or just doesn't communicate what he truly thinks or feels because I've allowed him to know me well enough to know what's acceptable to me (he doesn't just to this with me). This means he can know me, but I can never really know him.

 

The above may be more/less messed up than many peoples situations, but just to illustrate that there are reasons that someone behaves the way that they do and that there is meaning behind them, not necessarily good ones but some not necessarily bad.

 

Problem is, right now you're in a position of not knowing which makes it really hard not to be drawn in - I guess this is why happy and I were saying it's so important to be able to maintain your objectivity and not get drawn in, because the mixed signals are mixed often for a reason.

 

I know you can't move your desk, but maybe go online yourself and find a harmless flirtation to distract yourself with or something?! Hopefully over time it'll wear off for you and you just won't feel awkward any more!

 

I hope you're feeling better today xx

[Coolstorybro]

All the "shy guys" or just the ones unfortunate enough to come accross you?

[Purusha]

This thread has certainly stirred the emotions!

[unsureinlove]

Yes Purusha...that is exactly what I decided to do move on. I deserve better…..happpybear was soooooooo right just mindless BS and I will not play anymore. I did pretty good today…..NO PEEKS FOR ME!!!!

 

BUT…..just when I thought I was safe and getting through the day….I am in the cafeteria and who sit down right at the next table from me. WHY? The flippin cafeteria is HUGE…..pick another table AWAY from me! I know someone cannot be that attached to a specific table and if you can’t stand someone why on earth sit next to them.

 

I may have to start eating at the bus stop….LOL.

[happy_snapper]

This thread has certainly stirred the emotions!

 

It's because there's a lot of generalising language being used.

You can't generalise without upsetting someone.

 

Just being a shy person is bad enough. We don't need people saying untrue things about us as well.

[Purusha]

Yes Purusha...that is exactly what I decided to do move on. I deserve better…..happpybear was soooooooo right just mindless BS and I will not play anymore. I did pretty good today…..NO PEEKS FOR ME!!!!

 

BUT…..just when I thought I was safe and getting through the day….I am in the cafeteria and who sit down right at the next table from me. WHY? The flippin cafeteria is HUGE…..pick another table AWAY from me! I know someone cannot be that attached to a specific table and if you can’t stand someone why on earth sit next to them.

 

I may have to start eating at the bus stop….LOL.

 

Haha! Think that's called 'sods law' !!