Newly dating and Issues...

[savignon]

Women will actually go out with guys that they don't really like, just because they are bored or want a free meal, so sometimes it pays for a guy to be wary.

 

Have you found that to be true in your experience? I can for sure afford my own meals, as is the case for all of the women I know, and the assertion that women make a habit of going out with and spending time with people they're not interested in whatsoever because their lives are so boring for "free food" is harsh.

If your experience has been meeting girls that are so bored in their lives and hard up for a meal that they'll go on a bad date, I hope you meet higher quality girls soon!!

[Blue Spiral]

....(Deleted).....not worth it.

 

I'm so worth it. Please, on behalf of guys everywhere, tell us the third option.

[savignon]

I'm so worth it. Please, on behalf of guys everywhere, tell us the third option.

 

I have no doubts in my mind that absolutely nothing I say will change your mind about women. Hopefully you'll meet the right girl one day who will enlighten you about the female race.

Best wishes

[Blue Spiral]

I have no doubts in my mind that absolutely nothing I say will change your mind about women.

 

My problem is with cultural stuff, not women. If anything, I like women too much...

 

Hopefully you'll meet the right girl one day who will enlighten you about the female race.

Best wishes

 

I'm extremely enlightened, thank you. But it would actually be girls, plural, since I lean towards poly.

[Throwaway999]

Have you found that to be true in your experience? I can for sure afford my own meals, as is the case for all of the women I know, and the assertion that women make a habit of going out with and spending time with people they're not interested in whatsoever because their lives are so boring for "free food" is harsh.

If your experience has been meeting girls that are so bored in their lives and hard up for a meal that they'll go on a bad date, I hope you meet higher quality girls soon!!

 

Yeah, of course you can pay for your own meals, as can most women. But then why is it such a big deal for the guy to pay? Why is it a turnoff if he suggests taking turns?

 

And yeah, it is totally common for women to go out on dates with men they aren't attracted to. But they won't say "I'm going on a bad date for a free dinner." They'll usually rationalize it somehow, as in "I was giving him a chance" or "I wanted to see how it went" rather than "I knew I wasn't attracted to him, but I liked the attention, didn't have anything else going on that night, and he was paying" or "He had tickets to the big event/concert/celebrity gala that I wanted to go to and the only bummer was that I had to go with him."

 

Hell, some women go so far as to MARRY guys just for their money, so they idea that a woman would merely agree to go on a date with a guy she had no attraction for hardly stretches credulity.

[Donovan79]

I just don't get the "marry for money where there's no love" thing. You can be surrounded by jewels and fancy tv's and a beautiful place and great clothes and trips to Monaco and all that, but if you have no one great to share it with what's the point? Does just sitting there on a couch alone with a diamond really do anything for anyone?

[Throwaway999]

I just don't get the "marry for money where there's no love" thing. You can be surrounded by jewels and fancy tv's and a beautiful place and great clothes and trips to Monaco and all that, but if you have no one great to share it with what's the point? Does just sitting there on a couch alone with a diamond really do anything for anyone?

 

Apparently not: (according to some great country songs, anyway!)

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I guess it bears repeating that it's the way it's said. I once traveled to an acquaintance's house after a long day at work to visit when she was grieving the loss of a family member -I did it as a favor to another family member. On the way home she joined me and I mistakenly kept about $5 that she gave me to buy our train tickets. A minute later she said bluntly something like "that's my $5". I had no issue giving her her money -I hopefully would have realized my mistake but years later I still remember how badly she made me feel with her assumption that I was keeping her money, after I traveled so long to help her out. A long story but to me that's the point of it - I think taking turns on dates is a great idea but there are ways to present the idea - the way this person presented it sounded kind of tacky and gave a cheaper impression.

[East4]

 

The money thing worries me because... my father is like that. He saves every single little penny, doesn't buy himself much stuff, almost never gave my mother gifts etc etc... As his daughter I was treated fairly well but overall he was just saving and saving... and now he's retired and not even happy with all this money and still won't spend it!

 

Uncle Freud is right-women go for men that remind them of their fathers, Lol! OP, you had a stingy father, now you are ready to settle for a stingy man. But, you know this time you won't be the daughter, this time you will be, if you chose to stay, in your mother's shoes-no gifts, no dinners, criticism for every penny spent extra. Are you really willing to subject yourself to a miserable life like this. Come on!

[itsallgrand]

There probably IS a backstory to why he is like this. Are you going to keep seeing him?

 

If it turns out he is "even steven" would that really bug you down the line then?

[Sirenia]

Update

So we had dinner and a movie last night... Dinner I paid for since it was 'my turn' (rolleyes).. I just put up with it. It was a simple thing, takeaway, and not overly expensive. and then we just talked and hung out until it was time for the film to start. I assumed he'd paid for it since it was 'his turn' (and he did) and I thought 'great' but the worst part was.... he mentioned it to me! Like, 'the movie's on me'.. and again I was rolling my eyes.

 

So all in all it was a really nice night but to start with I couldn't get out of my head the conversation in this forum/post and I do think it's starting to get on my nerves.

 

I mean on one hand he does treat me well, looks out for me, is caring and sympathetic etc like making sure I'm OK, tired, sick, hot, cold, etc... holding heavy stuff, offering his coat, umbrella, etc.. (which is important to me since some of my exes did not do this) but on the other hand this money thing makes me feel like it's a transaction. I even had a funny/stupid thought to myself.. when we eventually have sex, are we going to take turns to orgasm? I mean, really? It's a stupid thought, right? Of course I'm being tongue-in-cheek but anyway.

 

I will see him again this weekend on a small trip... it was my idea (spur of the moment thing) and I let him choose the hotel, obviously he asked me too (and he didn't choose a particularly cheap one which surprised me). We never talked about it but since it's so early on and the trip was my idea I figured we'd go halves and that's OK with me. But the fact that he didn't choose a cheap hostel really surprised me.

 

I will talk to him about it since I can't go on like this. Question 1: What do you think I should say and how should I bring it up? Unlike me I don't think he's been doing a great deal of dating since his last break up (3 years ago) so he's out of practice methinks. And if I didn't like him in other ways I would have just stopped seeing him.

 

Meanwhile, this other guy who I dated once just a few days before him (that I really liked but he never asked me out again so I just forgot about him)... contacted me again out of the blue (after 3-4 weeks). Question 2 I'm wondering if I should see him?

 

After spending so much time alone and getting myself to this point where I actually feel OK and almost happy about it, I wonder 1) if I'm too picky and 2) if I really will be better off being alone as I'm not willing to 'settle' regardless of my age... I want this to be my last relationship and I'm tired of dating duds.

 

 

PS - a bit off topic... but for those that don't know I'm an expat living far from home... when I went back home a few months ago I was so surprised how my friends had changed and some seemed cold and like they didn't want to be my friend anymore (even though nothing had happened between us). In the end (after speaking to a good friend about it and my mother mentioned this too) I came to the conclusion that they were simply jealous of me. Pfft.. Meanwhile, I had the opposite thing happen where those I didn't think I was that close to were super kind to me when I came back (taking me to lunch or dinner, giving me gifts)... and so now I'm very inclined to treat those people really well. I mean I do it because it's a nice thing to do... but I don't need them to tell me, right? I don't need them to tell you "OK I'm taking you to lunch now so now you have to send me a gift when you get back or take me to lunch if/when I come visit you".. that's so tacky, wouldn't you agree? And then I'd feel it was a huge obligation and I wouldn't be doing it from my heart.

[Sirenia]

The thing that's hard for me is that he's not stingy in every way. He's very generous with his time, affections, emotions... I'm sure if I was sick or asked him for help with something he would be there... which is why the decision is so difficult.

 

So I think I have 6 options:

1. do nothing and hope he changes miraculously (unlikely!)

2. tell him and hope he changes on his own accord

3. tell him and tell him to change

4. don't tell him but act distant and miserable

5. stop seeing him altogether and explain why

6. stop seeing him altogether with no explanation

 

The thing is, I'm not good with confrontation and if I explain it he's going to get surprised/annoyed/defensive.. plus I really don't believe that people change that easily. If it's like this he's like this for a reason and I especially don't want to waste my time changing a man.

 

At the same time I'm kind of sad because everything else between us is going so well but as someone else pointed out, the similarities between him and my father are just too scarily similar.

[quirky]

Go to the trip and see how you get on. Try and take this thread out of your mind while you're there so you can give it a good chance. If you are still thinking about it afterwards I vote for 6. Maybe 2 as well. The other guy..I am not sure. Ideally it's best not to see him, he disappeared right?

[Sirenia]

OK so I was going to talk to him during or just after the trip... however, late yesterday afternoon he sent me an email wanting to 'talk to me'. It sounded serious so I agreed to meet up after work.

 

He said he wasn't feeling good after our last get together and he didn't know why but he could sense something was wrong and wanted to hear my side of the story... so eventually I told him how I'd been feeling and how I didn't like this business with paying. He explained his side of the story and in the end he could see that I was upset by that. I told him that normally I wouldn't have even gone on a second or third date with someone like that, but since I liked everything else about him I decided to go out more to see how it would pan out... I got the feeling that he has this fear that women are just going to use him for his money (like many men seem to have) and I said that's not the case with me at all... I said if I wanted a free dinner I could get that from anyone and actually, I would just take myself out to dinner. Why would I waste my time spending at least 2 hours of my night with someone I didn't even like just to get a free dinner? It's so stupid.

 

I mean I don't think our problem is that easily solved (since his relationship with money/spending goes way back like most of us) but the good side is that he does seem like he's willing to try and make me happy.. so we'll see!

[Pineapplepain]

I got the feeling that he has this fear that women are just going to use him for his money (like many men seem to have) and I said that's not the case with me at all... I said if I wanted a free dinner I could get that from anyone and actually, I would just take myself out to dinner. Why would I waste my time spending at least 2 hours of my night with someone I didn't even like just to get a free dinner? It's so stupid.

 

I think many men seem to have this fear because many men are taken for rides financially.

 

Not necessarily with malice, just that's how society says things should go, and when we get screwed (the woman leaves) we're standing there with moths in our pockets, looking like imbeciles, for the girl we thought was "the one."

 

It gets tiring after a while.

 

Granted, I still pay for the first few dates, and just pray she isn't one of those never-paying types. (Cause even if she doesn't offer sometimes, she is still a girl, and still beautiful, so I'm still going to ask her out even if she is stingy., granted the other qualities pass.)

[Pineapplepain]

Oh and I know at least two chicks who use dates to get free dinners, and openly admit it, with no attraction whatsoever to the dude.

[Sirenia]

I think if all men date with the thought that all women are out to 'get them' for their money.. don't even bother!

Likewise if all women think that all men are only out to get them for sex.. well, same thing!

 

I re-iterated to this guy time and time again that it's not about the monetary value and getting things for free. (note: that I have a good job with a good salary and can and do treat myself to stuff). I don't think guys get it! For a woman to feel good and attracted to a man she needs to feel adored, special, important etc.. and she can generally only get that if he is thoughtful, kind, generous, romantic, etc. And a decent woman won't sleep with you if she's not feeling 'it' (ie special and adored) because it's more about what's going on in her head. It's different for guys. They can be attracted to a woman simply because she is attractive. Women are far less attracted to looks, it's more about the personality and what kind of person he is on the inside.

 

In that regard I don't think I'm that different from the majority of women out there.

[Donovan79]

I think if all men date with the thought that all women are out to 'get them' for their money.. don't even bother!

Likewise if all women think that all men are only out to get them for sex.. well, same thing!

 

I re-iterated to this guy time and time again that it's not about the monetary value and getting things for free. (note: that I have a good job with a good salary and can and do treat myself to stuff). I don't think guys get it! For a woman to feel good and attracted to a man she needs to feel adored, special, important etc.. and she can generally only get that if he is thoughtful, kind, generous, romantic, etc.

 

Interesting. In that respect, then, gold digging women are just incredibly insecure, as all the money and clothes and trips are just them trying to feel more adored?

 

Just don't know if I buy it. No pun intended. A hot woman marrying a 80-year-old billionaire doesn't seem like she's just using his money as proof of his adoration, she's using his money as money...

[Sirenia]

Of course those women exist... but I am not one of them! geez.

[Throwaway999]

I don't think guys get it! For a woman to feel good and attracted to a man she needs to feel adored, special, important etc.. and she can generally only get that if he is thoughtful, kind, generous, romantic, etc. And a decent woman won't sleep with you if she's not feeling 'it' (ie special and adored) because it's more about what's going on in her head.

 

Interesting. In that respect, then, gold digging women are just incredibly insecure, as all the money and clothes and trips are just them trying to feel more adored?

 

Just don't know if I buy it. No pun intended. A hot woman marrying a 80-year-old billionaire doesn't seem like she's just using his money as proof of his adoration, she's using his money as money...

 

Hmmm, yeah, I don't buy it either. Seems to go against a lot of the reality I see day to day. In addition to what Chris said, I don't buy the idea that women want a man to make them feel adored, either. At least not most of the time.

 

Many women (not talking about YOU specifically, Serinia, I'm talking in generalizations here) are indeed attracted to "bad boys" and it has nothing to do with them making the woman feel "special and adored" or with the guy being "thoughtful, kind, generous, romantic, etc." In fact, lots of floormatty guys post on this forum all the time who are all "I gave her everything and treated her like an angel and she dumped me and is now hooked up with an overconfident douchebag."

 

By way of example, check out the first 30 seconds of this scene with Paul Newman - he asks the woman he is out with to pay and she does, then she has to ask for her change back! But she goes along with it because, hey, he's Paul Newman and this character he's playing is a bastard but he's also charming as hell. I know this is fiction but it totally rings true because I've seen the equivalent in real life many times. (Or maybe the women this appeals to aren't "decent" women, but I think most women would find Paul Newman in this film attractive.)